O Theotokos and virgin, rejoice! Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee! Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls!
Catholics do not pray to an intermediary. We simply ask for her to pray for us. Hence 'Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY for us sinners..'
You know, much in the same way that many non-Catholics ask their friends or family for their prayer when encountering hard times. In fact I see many now use the term almost as a throw away. 'Oh my kids are crawling up the walls today. Pray for me.'
Catholics figure if anyone can ask any ol' random sinner friend or family for help in prayer why not also be able to ask Mother Mary, who birthed our savior, for help in prayer.
Jesus tells us to come to Him. Any thing else is product of a lie JESUS never called mary His mother nor does HE advise us to seek her for anything.
Honor her as you would any brother or sister in the LORD.
However Mary is at rest now. Let her be in peace.
Mary herself would rebuke the folk promoting
The false doctrine of a co-intercessor .
JESUS DISCIPLESHIP requires following what JESUS teaches.
Anything else is of satanic deception.
JESUS is Lord over all ages
JESUS constantly refers to his FATHER BTW
When Jesus therefore saw HIS MOTHER, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto HIS MOTHER, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy MOTHER! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
JESUS never called mary His mother nor does HE ad...
So now we have 1baldeagle who pretends to speak for Mother Mary and his claim of her "rebuke" and TheGreatPumpkin who claims she is dead and not alive in heaven enjoying her ultimate reward of eternal life with God.
It seems we have a problem with humility and a forceful inability and wanting misunderstanding of another's method of prayer, warship, adoration and the difference between.
There is a difference between prayer and adoration. Prayer is what millions do both in communion with others and within the privacy of one's home and mind. Adoration is to be given to and only Gods. Prayer is what, no doubt, you ask for from loved ones and in that, whether you want to believe it or not, is the asking of those very same people you ask for help in prayer what would have to be considered intercession. It's what many would consider 'the power of prayer'. If not that than why ask anyone to pray for you? Why even entertain that method of prayer? Why attend church in mass if the gathering of many for the common prayer meant nothing or in your words were a 'satanic deception'? Why would a priest, reverend, or minister envoke the words "let us pray" if not for the common power of prayer to bare it's weight to the subject of prayer rather than a single person praying the same? The answer to that question is precisely why Catholics pray in mass and in private while asking for as much help as possible and that includes anyone willing to hear that request and act on it including Mother Mary.
What I find astonishing is not the missunderstanding of another's religion, because that is natural, but the disregard of and lack of humility to recognize one can't possibly know ones own religion prefectly then turn to another and pretend they know that person's religion also. It's bazaar.
Simple.
Mary told us to do What Jesus tells us to do.
Praying to dead folk isn't one of them.
Necromancy is sin.
Jesus hates sin as his Father does HE wouldn't advise us to sin.
You don't do what Mary says either
Jesus says COME to Him.
Scripture cannot be broken.
How is that you became confused?
Simple. Mary told us to do What Jesus tells us to do.
You don't do what Mary says either Jesus says COME to Him.
Which one is it?
You see it is precisely this sort of convenient contradictions that confuse people. So how is it that you became confused? Or is your contradiction intended in order to give you an escape route?
People will hold you to your words from time to time and this is one of those times.
Have you lived your entire life with the ability to pull a rip cord anytime a conversation gets uncomfortable? If so, I encourage you to take a stand one way or another. Dancing your entire existence on the high-wire dividing right and wrong may be comfortable but it only teaches you one thing, to set up an escape route. You dont ever really learn what it means to stand for anything for the right reasons whether your stand is right or wrong.
But I can't help but notice that many questions are asked of Catholics and as a Catholic I have tried my best to answer when asked. Out of the many times I have spoken up about a non Catholics understanding of how a Catholic prays, not once, nit a single time has a non catholic ever answered why they ask a friend or family for their prayer if they consider this action as intercession and therefore sin.
I ask again. Why do non Catholics ask friends or family for help in prayer if they are adamant that this is a sin?
You're joking. It is written that His
Holy Spirit helps me in prayer.
BEFORE THE VERY THRONE OF JESUS CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD.
What is the benefit of praying to dead people?
JESUS alone is the mediator for men.
And that's also written.
Jesus's people DO as JESUS instructs.
The answer is that Mary is dead. She cannot hear you. She is with the father. To say she can hear you is to make a deity out of her. Christ commanded us as the bride to gather togather and pray to the father in the name of the son. No other way is taught in scripture. Only God is omnipotent and omnipresent
You may want to reread my post. Nowhere did I say that Mother Mary was omnipotent or omnipresent. It appears you are arguing some caricature of how you believe or have been told a Catholic warships.
You are also making some very important assumptions about the ability to hear when spending eternity with The Lord and correlating that ability to only belonging to a deity. Nor you or I have the knowledge to make that assumption. But you and I CAN agree that God can give or take ANY ability to whom He desires.
You appear to also be, either intentionally or by convenience, corrupting scripture by outright disregarding the many promises of eternal LIFE. Meaning to live. Meaning one NEVER dies. To make the statement "The answer is that Mary is dead." Is in direct contradiction to what scripture promised every one of us should we follow the teachings of Christ.
Unless, of course, you are saying that Mother Mary lived a sinful life and if so did not repent. Is that what you are attempting to convey? Let's get on with it. What exactly are you saying here?
I left these bible verses below to help you formulate your reply. Look forward to it.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 2:17
"The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever."
Show me scripture where it is taught to ask your friends or loved ones to pray for you when you need it and I'll show you scripture where it is taught it is ok to ask Mother Mary for the same.
It’s not. It’s taught that we gather together in the name of the son. Christ. Where two or more are gathered there will I be also. The deciples were commanded the pray and fast togather.
I never said you did say it was scripture. You responded to my comment with:
Show me in scripture where this is taught please. I wanna make sure I’m doing it correctly.
And my response to you was precisely the point. You don't consider your friends, whome you ask for help in prayer, as interceding on your behalf nor do I consider Mary as interceding for me. It's exactly what it is. Help in prayer.
I wasn't placing words in your mouth I was asking that you hold yourself to the same standard as you hold the Catholic.
Show me the scripture where you can ask a family or friend for help in prayer and I'll point to that same scripture since I also consider Mother Mary friend or family.
You can't escape your contradiction you can only attempt to make a caricature of Catholicism. Fine. But mocking anothers religion doesn't prove your point. It only shows you don't like or agree with that religion. Meehh, ok.
And asking friends/family to pray for you is not the same thing. They actually know who you are and what you’re going through. We have no idea to what degree people in heaven are aware of people/events on earth, if at all. You also don’t pray to your family to pray for you, you just ask.
Catholics also pray to Mary because they believe that she was sinless and perfect in life. Which is unbiblical, as not only does Jesus gently chide her on occasion, when she first heard she would bear Jesus she rejoiced that her Savior had come. Why would she rejoice over a Savior if she was perfect and didn’t need one?
Lastly, Catholics do a lot more than just pray to Mary. In addition to the previously mentioned belief that she was perfect, the RCC has openly stated that they worship Mary and have dedicated feasts to her. I challenge anyone to find a single scriptural basis for such beliefs and practices.
You quote where I mentioned Catholics ASK Mary to pray for us then in the paragraph after that you yourself admit that you also ASK your family to pray for you.
So you accuse Catholics of having an intermediary for ASKING Mary to pray for us while also admitting that you also ASK your family to pray for you and, by your own definition, use your family as an intermediary.
I don't agree with your definition but simply pointing out your contradiction.
Then you appear to say that one can't ask someone else to pray for you if they don't know you or know what your going through. Since we're asking for scriptural (am I doing it right?) proof can you point out the part where we can ask for prayer from those we know and can not from those we don't know?
In regard to "feasts". This is done everyday all around the world in celebration for graduations, weddings....all kinds of stuff. Since when is dedicating a feast to anyone a sign of warship or an acknowledgment of recognition of a false deity?
As a Catholic I have never heard of the rest of what you mentioned being taught as Catholic doctrine. As a result I won't chase ghosts. I hope you don't expect people to entertain any random accusation without you having to provide some proof.
That's the opposite. Asking in the name of Mary is asking for a good word to be put in for you. No one says only but you. Stop insulting His mother, for as He told James, she is our mother too.
Why do people ask you to say a prayer for them, such as when they're sick, or have a hardship? Prayer can be about community, too, and I would want Mary in my prayer community.
We have a physical relationship with the people around us and that is why prayer requests are appropriate. We should not be communicating with or maintaining a relationship with any being in the spirit realm other than Jesus Christ.
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
That would be idolatry indeed.
mary is sleeping now
Jesus called mary woman what do you have to do with me?
Mary then said Do what he tells you to do
That indicates that y'all
don't listen to mary
Why not honor Joseph who could have had mary put away for adultery?
GOD HONORED THIS MAN AND EXPLAINED THE PLAN FOR SALVATION.
Can you dig it.
My family just asked me to pray for a loved one who is sick. I did. I prayed to Jesus.
Why can't I then ask Mary to pray for me, or someone, just as my family asked me to pray for them?
Nothing in the Hail! Mary prayer is blasphemous. You're just a bit too narrow-minded to see how beautiful God's love is and the many people, dead and living, who we can call upon to pray for us sinners. For me... I need all the help I can get.
Did you present your opinion as an opinion? Does that read to you like someone who is interested in respectful and meaningful discourse? If so you have my apologies. It does not appear that way to me though.
Biblical truth according to you, maybe. When will people learn that quoting scripture to someone who reads it differently from them is pointless? It’s fine. Talk however you want, kiddo. Maybe someday you’ll learn.
Because it's something catholic church has always said to do, and anyone inclined to read the bible for themselves already joined the protestant reformation.
False. The schism was demonic, as is the continual infestation and corruption of the original church and the easy infiltration of all the sects. When I see evil burning down the shipping center businesses canning themselves temples, I'll know they actually have something going.
Just because there's cleaning to do, you do not burn down a house He established. What was the greatest mistake of Moses? Upon seeing the golden calf being worshipped, he BROKE the tablets of GOD'S COMMANDMENTS. He broke something that God Himself had established. How badly will it go for those who broke His church? I shudder to think about it.
I dont think reading the Bible for yourself counts as "breaking the church". Problem is too many bishops decided their own edicts were equal in authority to scripture and made up their own rules. That problem continues to this day
And yet we have millions of catholics today addressing prayers to Mary and the saints, despite Jesus and the apostles teaching us how to pray (and that wasnt it).
I can pray for you, you can pray for me. Your (and my) body dies and our souls live forever, just as Mary, Saints and all of those that have gone before (and will after us). This is why we ask for prayers FROM ALL and continue to pray FOR ALL (souls in Purgatory) and those beyond. Remember, our quest (and HIS PROMISE) is ETERNAL (Paradise!). Prayers, to and from are for souls, NOT dust. Open your eyes and the mind may follow. Peace be With You, Fren!
No one prays to them, please educate yourself before bearing false witness. If we can ask for someone here on earth to put in a good word for us, what is the difference? We all clearly ask for them to PRAY FOR US. Explicitly, clearly- pray for us. We need all the help we can get, especially since people keep angering the Lord. Like, by continually insulting His mother!
God bless you, I'm not retranslating your Bible for you, not going to re-litigate documented miracles for you. Agsin, no one prays to anyone but God. We all for intercession, clearly- PRAY FOR US. Do you believe in the power of prayer? Do you believe that groups of good people praying together for a common cause get more grace from God than one person by themselves? If those good people are closer to God than I am, you better believe I'm going to ask them for help. That's where a bunch of miracles get documented.
All I'm asking for is a Bible verse that says we are to pray to saints and angels. Not asking for some fancy retranslation. No documented miracles here. Just some scripture. You can't show me because it's not there.
It’s called intercessory prayer — asking Mary or the Saints to send our prayers to God- you’re not praying ‘to’ them - you’re asking for a boost from Gods favored souls. Like asking them to forward an email (if prayer was an email 😆) God may put a priority on Mary’s requests- so we ask for her help to send it to God 🤷♀️
In visions, saints (like those who received the stigmata, for example) who were spoken to by Jesus and/or the Virgin Mary have spoken of this. The holy mother did not want her story to compete with that of her Son, so did not want it written or shared until much later. She gave people the rosary to help focus their meditation on the mysteries of the life of her Son, look it up. It is a weapon against evil, and a help on the way to get closer to her Son which is the only way to get to God.
Thank you for taking the time to answer me, with the subject like this, it's often hard to have discussion. I understand what you've said. However, I don't understand how that squares with the teachings of the Bible.
Elijah Elijah Moses Old testament New testament is Christ. With the New testament, we do not need a priest to intercede on our behalf. We can go directly to Christ.
Good bless you, Jesus is the Way to the Father, the Truth and the Life. Yes go directly to Christ, we all do, get in line amigo, and then continue on to the Father. But respect, don't insult His mother.
The Annunciation Luke 1:26-38
The Visitation Luke 1:39-56
The Nativity Luke 2:1-14
The Assumption of Mary Song of Songs 2:3-6
Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven Luke 1:51-54
Remember Protestant bibles have 7 less books then Catholic ones.
I have looked at your verses and found no reference to any deity of Mary or reason to pray to her.
Scripture does not contradict scripture, if it says in the Bible that there is only one God and Jesus is the only intercessor for us then that is it, period.
Also those 7 books are Old Testament so no way would reference Mary.
Those 7 books are also cultural context books that even the Jews do not recognize as scripture, that is why we do not have them in the “Protestant bible”
Ah yes. As the apostles told us, "Pray in Mary's name". Right I'm sure that's in the bible somewhere. Maybe it was Jesus "pray to the Father, but only come in my mother's name or he wont listen" something like that.
Step back one minute and think about what you're doing. God became man, with a human mother. Let that really sink in. One woman in all of creation was chosen to be a special daughter to the Father, consider to the Spirit and mother of the Son. She was born without original sin, pre-baptized, as it were, to be a clean and perfect vessel for this greatest of miracles. She raised the Lord from birth, and the most perfect Son will love His mother perfectly. As He honors her, I would too. He told us through James, here is your mother. I happily adopt her and if she will listen, I will absolutely talk to her. I talk to my passed-on relatives sometimes and pray for them too, and ask them to put in a good word for me if they can. If we can do that when they're alive, what's different now?
Note, I was raised Roman Catholic, so hear me out:
If Mary were born without original sin, she could have fulfilled Jesus' mission for him. She would have no corrupted moral faculties, which means the natural ability to perfectly self sacrifice for the good of another.
She would have INSISTED, especially as a mother -- "NO, I will go to the cross for you". What mother doesn't want to spare her son's life by putting herself in the stead of danger? Especially knowing he's completely innocent of all accusations? Did this happen? Did she attempt?
The Gospels highlight Mary's faith not her sinless-ness, because like all children of God her faith was mixed with doubts. She doubted Jesus at times. She questioned whether he took this whole "Son of God" thing too far. Remember, having a close physical proximity to God the Son in the flesh does not guarantee sinlessness or perfect faith. His own brothers and sisters and neighbors from his childhood doubted and even became contemptuous of him.
As far as speaking with her... all souls who have departed in the faith are "asleep". Have you ever had a conversation with someone in a deep sleep? In Revelation the martyrs in the presence of God raise up their voices and cry out "How long, O Lord?" And God essentially responds, "Go back to sleep, it is not time yet." Meanwhile, Christ Jesus we are told is an advocate for us, before God's throne, always making intercession for his people. This is also somewhat prefigured in the garden of Gethsemane, when his closest most faithful disciples continually fell asleep on watch despite the urgency of the night, but Jesus remained perfectly alert and in effectual prayer for all of us.
As the Psalmist prayed, "Whom have I in heaven but thee?" in context of praying for supplication and deliverance, God alone has the ear to hear and the mighty right arm of salvation. Amen and amen!
I'll only comment on the beginning, where you derail completely. An innocent soul could not have redeemed the world, else any angel could have done it. No, I think ancient Bishop Proclus said it best, to paraphrase, no man could bear the entirety of human sin, no immortal angel could relate to human sin, only a divine lamb could accomplish in one great sacrifice this salvation.
By the way, death ain't sleep, by a long shot. But you'll find out.
And?..
Jesus says don't pray to demons either.
You do that.
Satan quoted scripture to Jesus
What did Jesus say to him.
I used Jesus's words not mine
I am the least of the saints.
You dishonor yourself and your manhood by praying to a demonic man-made construct that is on you as well
You refusal to PRAY to Jesus is on you.
JESUS DIED FOR UNWORTHY ME.
It is a honor and joy for me to speak of his victory over evil.
DJT is the man for this hour BTW.
MLK was the man for his time.
GW and the Patriots were the men for their time.
All Men are created equal. Pedestals are created by crooked men.
You never read the Constitution either have you.
You come here blaspheming the Lord with your ode to necromancy and think we are to accept this?
Why are you here?
Is it to block the blessings from the little Ones?
I trust DJT infinitely more than the pope and his minions.
For real.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners...
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Yep... I was just adding the part that was not in the title.
Orthodox Christian version:
O Theotokos and virgin, rejoice! Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee! Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls!
Non Catholic version: Father I pray to you in Jesus name... insert prayer here hehe
That’s right. No intermediary
Catholics do not pray to an intermediary. We simply ask for her to pray for us. Hence 'Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY for us sinners..'
You know, much in the same way that many non-Catholics ask their friends or family for their prayer when encountering hard times. In fact I see many now use the term almost as a throw away. 'Oh my kids are crawling up the walls today. Pray for me.'
Catholics figure if anyone can ask any ol' random sinner friend or family for help in prayer why not also be able to ask Mother Mary, who birthed our savior, for help in prayer.
Jesus tells us to come to Him. Any thing else is product of a lie JESUS never called mary His mother nor does HE advise us to seek her for anything. Honor her as you would any brother or sister in the LORD. However Mary is at rest now. Let her be in peace. Mary herself would rebuke the folk promoting The false doctrine of a co-intercessor . JESUS DISCIPLESHIP requires following what JESUS teaches. Anything else is of satanic deception. JESUS is Lord over all ages JESUS constantly refers to his FATHER BTW
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw HIS MOTHER, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto HIS MOTHER, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy MOTHER! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Are you saying the bible is fallible?
So now we have 1baldeagle who pretends to speak for Mother Mary and his claim of her "rebuke" and TheGreatPumpkin who claims she is dead and not alive in heaven enjoying her ultimate reward of eternal life with God.
It seems we have a problem with humility and a forceful inability and wanting misunderstanding of another's method of prayer, warship, adoration and the difference between.
There is a difference between prayer and adoration. Prayer is what millions do both in communion with others and within the privacy of one's home and mind. Adoration is to be given to and only Gods. Prayer is what, no doubt, you ask for from loved ones and in that, whether you want to believe it or not, is the asking of those very same people you ask for help in prayer what would have to be considered intercession. It's what many would consider 'the power of prayer'. If not that than why ask anyone to pray for you? Why even entertain that method of prayer? Why attend church in mass if the gathering of many for the common prayer meant nothing or in your words were a 'satanic deception'? Why would a priest, reverend, or minister envoke the words "let us pray" if not for the common power of prayer to bare it's weight to the subject of prayer rather than a single person praying the same? The answer to that question is precisely why Catholics pray in mass and in private while asking for as much help as possible and that includes anyone willing to hear that request and act on it including Mother Mary.
What I find astonishing is not the missunderstanding of another's religion, because that is natural, but the disregard of and lack of humility to recognize one can't possibly know ones own religion prefectly then turn to another and pretend they know that person's religion also. It's bazaar.
Simple. Mary told us to do What Jesus tells us to do. Praying to dead folk isn't one of them. Necromancy is sin. Jesus hates sin as his Father does HE wouldn't advise us to sin. You don't do what Mary says either Jesus says COME to Him. Scripture cannot be broken. How is that you became confused?
Which one is it?
You see it is precisely this sort of convenient contradictions that confuse people. So how is it that you became confused? Or is your contradiction intended in order to give you an escape route?
People will hold you to your words from time to time and this is one of those times.
Have you lived your entire life with the ability to pull a rip cord anytime a conversation gets uncomfortable? If so, I encourage you to take a stand one way or another. Dancing your entire existence on the high-wire dividing right and wrong may be comfortable but it only teaches you one thing, to set up an escape route. You dont ever really learn what it means to stand for anything for the right reasons whether your stand is right or wrong.
But I can't help but notice that many questions are asked of Catholics and as a Catholic I have tried my best to answer when asked. Out of the many times I have spoken up about a non Catholics understanding of how a Catholic prays, not once, nit a single time has a non catholic ever answered why they ask a friend or family for their prayer if they consider this action as intercession and therefore sin.
I ask again. Why do non Catholics ask friends or family for help in prayer if they are adamant that this is a sin?
You're joking. It is written that His Holy Spirit helps me in prayer. BEFORE THE VERY THRONE OF JESUS CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD. What is the benefit of praying to dead people? JESUS alone is the mediator for men. And that's also written. Jesus's people DO as JESUS instructs.
The answer is that Mary is dead. She cannot hear you. She is with the father. To say she can hear you is to make a deity out of her. Christ commanded us as the bride to gather togather and pray to the father in the name of the son. No other way is taught in scripture. Only God is omnipotent and omnipresent
You may want to reread my post. Nowhere did I say that Mother Mary was omnipotent or omnipresent. It appears you are arguing some caricature of how you believe or have been told a Catholic warships.
You are also making some very important assumptions about the ability to hear when spending eternity with The Lord and correlating that ability to only belonging to a deity. Nor you or I have the knowledge to make that assumption. But you and I CAN agree that God can give or take ANY ability to whom He desires.
You appear to also be, either intentionally or by convenience, corrupting scripture by outright disregarding the many promises of eternal LIFE. Meaning to live. Meaning one NEVER dies. To make the statement "The answer is that Mary is dead." Is in direct contradiction to what scripture promised every one of us should we follow the teachings of Christ.
Unless, of course, you are saying that Mother Mary lived a sinful life and if so did not repent. Is that what you are attempting to convey? Let's get on with it. What exactly are you saying here?
I left these bible verses below to help you formulate your reply. Look forward to it.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 2:17
"The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever."
You envoked Mary as if she were able to hear you and me intercede.
Can your friends or family intercede?
Dead people can’t hear us now? Could you point me to the verses that say that? 😂
Show me in scripture where this is taught please. I wanna make sure I’m doing it correctly.
Show me scripture where it is taught to ask your friends or loved ones to pray for you when you need it and I'll show you scripture where it is taught it is ok to ask Mother Mary for the same.
It’s not. It’s taught that we gather together in the name of the son. Christ. Where two or more are gathered there will I be also. The deciples were commanded the pray and fast togather.
Have you never asked someone to pray for you when experiencing tough times?
Btw I never said it was in scripture to ask my friends to pray for me. You are trying to put words in my mouth. Mary is dead. She cannot hear you!
I never said you did say it was scripture. You responded to my comment with:
And my response to you was precisely the point. You don't consider your friends, whome you ask for help in prayer, as interceding on your behalf nor do I consider Mary as interceding for me. It's exactly what it is. Help in prayer.
I wasn't placing words in your mouth I was asking that you hold yourself to the same standard as you hold the Catholic.
Show me the scripture where you can ask a family or friend for help in prayer and I'll point to that same scripture since I also consider Mother Mary friend or family.
You can't escape your contradiction you can only attempt to make a caricature of Catholicism. Fine. But mocking anothers religion doesn't prove your point. It only shows you don't like or agree with that religion. Meehh, ok.
That’s literally what an intermediary does.
And asking friends/family to pray for you is not the same thing. They actually know who you are and what you’re going through. We have no idea to what degree people in heaven are aware of people/events on earth, if at all. You also don’t pray to your family to pray for you, you just ask.
Catholics also pray to Mary because they believe that she was sinless and perfect in life. Which is unbiblical, as not only does Jesus gently chide her on occasion, when she first heard she would bear Jesus she rejoiced that her Savior had come. Why would she rejoice over a Savior if she was perfect and didn’t need one?
Lastly, Catholics do a lot more than just pray to Mary. In addition to the previously mentioned belief that she was perfect, the RCC has openly stated that they worship Mary and have dedicated feasts to her. I challenge anyone to find a single scriptural basis for such beliefs and practices.
You quote where I mentioned Catholics ASK Mary to pray for us then in the paragraph after that you yourself admit that you also ASK your family to pray for you.
So you accuse Catholics of having an intermediary for ASKING Mary to pray for us while also admitting that you also ASK your family to pray for you and, by your own definition, use your family as an intermediary.
I don't agree with your definition but simply pointing out your contradiction.
Then you appear to say that one can't ask someone else to pray for you if they don't know you or know what your going through. Since we're asking for scriptural (am I doing it right?) proof can you point out the part where we can ask for prayer from those we know and can not from those we don't know?
In regard to "feasts". This is done everyday all around the world in celebration for graduations, weddings....all kinds of stuff. Since when is dedicating a feast to anyone a sign of warship or an acknowledgment of recognition of a false deity?
As a Catholic I have never heard of the rest of what you mentioned being taught as Catholic doctrine. As a result I won't chase ghosts. I hope you don't expect people to entertain any random accusation without you having to provide some proof.
Amen
Amen.
I’m wondering the same thing. I see that repeatedly. Maybe people don’t know what it means?
Praying to Mary is blasphemy. 1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Do you not think that Jesus wouldn't answer His mother's requests? She was the first Tabernacle to hold His precious Body and Blood
That's the opposite. Asking in the name of Mary is asking for a good word to be put in for you. No one says only but you. Stop insulting His mother, for as He told James, she is our mother too.
Lol you make a lot of assertions without evidence. High priest?
Watch the Fatima story, maybe.
Is a high priest not head of a church of lower priests
Inaccurate interpretation of the prayer.
Then why not just pray to Jesus? He is the mediator between you and God.
No, the Spirit is the Paraclete and the Son is the Way.
Why do people ask you to say a prayer for them, such as when they're sick, or have a hardship? Prayer can be about community, too, and I would want Mary in my prayer community.
We have a physical relationship with the people around us and that is why prayer requests are appropriate. We should not be communicating with or maintaining a relationship with any being in the spirit realm other than Jesus Christ.
Says you, I guess.
Thanks for your opinion.
Thank you for the discussion. I hope we both grow in Christ.
We already have, Fren. Thanks
Matthew 12:46-50
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
John 19: 25-29
That would be idolatry indeed. mary is sleeping now Jesus called mary woman what do you have to do with me? Mary then said Do what he tells you to do That indicates that y'all don't listen to mary Why not honor Joseph who could have had mary put away for adultery? GOD HONORED THIS MAN AND EXPLAINED THE PLAN FOR SALVATION. Can you dig it.
God is love. We all need to be mindful that our words are not sharp stones flung at others. To be in His love we need to preach that love.
My family just asked me to pray for a loved one who is sick. I did. I prayed to Jesus.
Why can't I then ask Mary to pray for me, or someone, just as my family asked me to pray for them?
Nothing in the Hail! Mary prayer is blasphemous. You're just a bit too narrow-minded to see how beautiful God's love is and the many people, dead and living, who we can call upon to pray for us sinners. For me... I need all the help I can get.
I don’t think Jesus is going to get mad at anybody for saying nice things about his mom.
So you will start attacking people who ask others on this board to pray for them, yes? No other intermediary right?
I’m sorry. I thought this was a place where differing opinions could be shared and meaningful discourse is encouraged .
Did you present your opinion as an opinion? Does that read to you like someone who is interested in respectful and meaningful discourse? If so you have my apologies. It does not appear that way to me though.
I’ve never been one to sugarcoat things. Forgive my bluntness.
Presenting your opinion as an opinion is not sugar coating, but ok. If that’s all you can muster right now.
It’s actually not my opinion; it is Biblical Truth. I used the wrong word. Why does this bother you?
Biblical truth according to you, maybe. When will people learn that quoting scripture to someone who reads it differently from them is pointless? It’s fine. Talk however you want, kiddo. Maybe someday you’ll learn.
Just save your fake ass apologies next time, Pastor Bob. Ok?
Amen.
Where is this evil coming from? Why would you pray to anyone but God through Christ?
Thank you Caiaphas...
He was a bad guy for sure, what does that have to do with people? Praying to angels and saints today?
I am genuinely trying to understand why some people pray to saints and angels regardless of the biblical teachings.
Because it's something catholic church has always said to do, and anyone inclined to read the bible for themselves already joined the protestant reformation.
Nailed it
I understand. I'm hoping the discussion will open some eyes.
False. The schism was demonic, as is the continual infestation and corruption of the original church and the easy infiltration of all the sects. When I see evil burning down the shipping center businesses canning themselves temples, I'll know they actually have something going.
Just because there's cleaning to do, you do not burn down a house He established. What was the greatest mistake of Moses? Upon seeing the golden calf being worshipped, he BROKE the tablets of GOD'S COMMANDMENTS. He broke something that God Himself had established. How badly will it go for those who broke His church? I shudder to think about it.
I dont think reading the Bible for yourself counts as "breaking the church". Problem is too many bishops decided their own edicts were equal in authority to scripture and made up their own rules. That problem continues to this day
Which is exactly why dogma is unrelated to priests' opinions. Or preachers' opinions. Or bad translations compounded by opinions.
And yet we have millions of catholics today addressing prayers to Mary and the saints, despite Jesus and the apostles teaching us how to pray (and that wasnt it).
As a former catholic i can confirm this
I can pray for you, you can pray for me. Your (and my) body dies and our souls live forever, just as Mary, Saints and all of those that have gone before (and will after us). This is why we ask for prayers FROM ALL and continue to pray FOR ALL (souls in Purgatory) and those beyond. Remember, our quest (and HIS PROMISE) is ETERNAL (Paradise!). Prayers, to and from are for souls, NOT dust. Open your eyes and the mind may follow. Peace be With You, Fren!
May we both grow in Christ's love.
No one prays to them, please educate yourself before bearing false witness. If we can ask for someone here on earth to put in a good word for us, what is the difference? We all clearly ask for them to PRAY FOR US. Explicitly, clearly- pray for us. We need all the help we can get, especially since people keep angering the Lord. Like, by continually insulting His mother!
I am trying to educate myself. Please show me where in the Bible it says I am to pray to saints and angels. Or for that matter carry around a rosary.
God bless you, I'm not retranslating your Bible for you, not going to re-litigate documented miracles for you. Agsin, no one prays to anyone but God. We all for intercession, clearly- PRAY FOR US. Do you believe in the power of prayer? Do you believe that groups of good people praying together for a common cause get more grace from God than one person by themselves? If those good people are closer to God than I am, you better believe I'm going to ask them for help. That's where a bunch of miracles get documented.
All I'm asking for is a Bible verse that says we are to pray to saints and angels. Not asking for some fancy retranslation. No documented miracles here. Just some scripture. You can't show me because it's not there.
For 400 years, THE BIBLE DIDN'T EXIST. How did our faith continue to live (propagate) during that time... Tradition?...embrace it!
It’s called intercessory prayer — asking Mary or the Saints to send our prayers to God- you’re not praying ‘to’ them - you’re asking for a boost from Gods favored souls. Like asking them to forward an email (if prayer was an email 😆) God may put a priority on Mary’s requests- so we ask for her help to send it to God 🤷♀️
Where is this taught in scripture? Chapter and verse pleas.
In visions, saints (like those who received the stigmata, for example) who were spoken to by Jesus and/or the Virgin Mary have spoken of this. The holy mother did not want her story to compete with that of her Son, so did not want it written or shared until much later. She gave people the rosary to help focus their meditation on the mysteries of the life of her Son, look it up. It is a weapon against evil, and a help on the way to get closer to her Son which is the only way to get to God.
Where is this in scripture? Chapter? Verse?
Yes, because she never died. She was assumed into heaven without death.
Thank you for taking the time to answer me, with the subject like this, it's often hard to have discussion. I understand what you've said. However, I don't understand how that squares with the teachings of the Bible.
Did people ask God or ask Elijah, Moses, etc to ask God for them? Or both?
Elijah Elijah Moses Old testament New testament is Christ. With the New testament, we do not need a priest to intercede on our behalf. We can go directly to Christ.
Good bless you, Jesus is the Way to the Father, the Truth and the Life. Yes go directly to Christ, we all do, get in line amigo, and then continue on to the Father. But respect, don't insult His mother.
I have nothing but respect for her. Why do people keep saying we are disrespecting her?
No problem- I just replied to someone else about the scripture of it.
The Annunciation Luke 1:26-38 The Visitation Luke 1:39-56 The Nativity Luke 2:1-14 The Assumption of Mary Song of Songs 2:3-6 Mary is crowned Queen of Heaven Luke 1:51-54
Remember Protestant bibles have 7 less books then Catholic ones.
I have looked at your verses and found no reference to any deity of Mary or reason to pray to her.
Scripture does not contradict scripture, if it says in the Bible that there is only one God and Jesus is the only intercessor for us then that is it, period.
Also those 7 books are Old Testament so no way would reference Mary. Those 7 books are also cultural context books that even the Jews do not recognize as scripture, that is why we do not have them in the “Protestant bible”
Ah yes. As the apostles told us, "Pray in Mary's name". Right I'm sure that's in the bible somewhere. Maybe it was Jesus "pray to the Father, but only come in my mother's name or he wont listen" something like that.
Step back one minute and think about what you're doing. God became man, with a human mother. Let that really sink in. One woman in all of creation was chosen to be a special daughter to the Father, consider to the Spirit and mother of the Son. She was born without original sin, pre-baptized, as it were, to be a clean and perfect vessel for this greatest of miracles. She raised the Lord from birth, and the most perfect Son will love His mother perfectly. As He honors her, I would too. He told us through James, here is your mother. I happily adopt her and if she will listen, I will absolutely talk to her. I talk to my passed-on relatives sometimes and pray for them too, and ask them to put in a good word for me if they can. If we can do that when they're alive, what's different now?
Mary was not born sinless.
If she was sinless, she wouldn’t need a Savior.
Note, I was raised Roman Catholic, so hear me out:
If Mary were born without original sin, she could have fulfilled Jesus' mission for him. She would have no corrupted moral faculties, which means the natural ability to perfectly self sacrifice for the good of another.
She would have INSISTED, especially as a mother -- "NO, I will go to the cross for you". What mother doesn't want to spare her son's life by putting herself in the stead of danger? Especially knowing he's completely innocent of all accusations? Did this happen? Did she attempt?
The Gospels highlight Mary's faith not her sinless-ness, because like all children of God her faith was mixed with doubts. She doubted Jesus at times. She questioned whether he took this whole "Son of God" thing too far. Remember, having a close physical proximity to God the Son in the flesh does not guarantee sinlessness or perfect faith. His own brothers and sisters and neighbors from his childhood doubted and even became contemptuous of him.
As far as speaking with her... all souls who have departed in the faith are "asleep". Have you ever had a conversation with someone in a deep sleep? In Revelation the martyrs in the presence of God raise up their voices and cry out "How long, O Lord?" And God essentially responds, "Go back to sleep, it is not time yet." Meanwhile, Christ Jesus we are told is an advocate for us, before God's throne, always making intercession for his people. This is also somewhat prefigured in the garden of Gethsemane, when his closest most faithful disciples continually fell asleep on watch despite the urgency of the night, but Jesus remained perfectly alert and in effectual prayer for all of us.
As the Psalmist prayed, "Whom have I in heaven but thee?" in context of praying for supplication and deliverance, God alone has the ear to hear and the mighty right arm of salvation. Amen and amen!
I'll only comment on the beginning, where you derail completely. An innocent soul could not have redeemed the world, else any angel could have done it. No, I think ancient Bishop Proclus said it best, to paraphrase, no man could bear the entirety of human sin, no immortal angel could relate to human sin, only a divine lamb could accomplish in one great sacrifice this salvation.
By the way, death ain't sleep, by a long shot. But you'll find out.
AMEN...
And?.. Jesus says don't pray to demons either. You do that. Satan quoted scripture to Jesus What did Jesus say to him. I used Jesus's words not mine I am the least of the saints. You dishonor yourself and your manhood by praying to a demonic man-made construct that is on you as well
You refusal to PRAY to Jesus is on you.
JESUS DIED FOR UNWORTHY ME. It is a honor and joy for me to speak of his victory over evil.
DJT is the man for this hour BTW. MLK was the man for his time. GW and the Patriots were the men for their time.
All Men are created equal. Pedestals are created by crooked men. You never read the Constitution either have you. You come here blaspheming the Lord with your ode to necromancy and think we are to accept this? Why are you here? Is it to block the blessings from the little Ones? I trust DJT infinitely more than the pope and his minions. For real.