In reality, it's probably in Q's plan to have Trump treated this way in order to normalize it happening, so when it actually happens to the other FPOTUS it won't be challenged as illegitimate by people who actually care about this country.
Under emphasized is the polo shirts and concealed equipment. Why??? Were they trying to start a firefight?? Were they trying to conceal their identity if they killed Trump or family members? Did they know that Trump wasn’t there? Or maybe the low level thwarted the DS plan by going when he was not there.
Were they trying to conceal their identity if they killed Trump or family members? Did they know that Trump wasn’t there?
They absolutely did. They specifically scheduled the search for when Trump was not there. The club is also closed in August.
Under emphasized is the polo shirts and concealed equipment. Why???
They mentioned this at the time, they were not trying to create a spectacle. We did even learn the FBI was there until after they left.The FBi did not release details of this. A local FL website got tipped off and confirmed it with folks in Trump's orbit. They posted just after the FBI left. Trump soon confirmed it.
Were they trying to conceal their identity
It would have been super, super to determine who was there.
Oh yes, because they're ALWAYS honest about who started what. The federal government has never instigated an engagement with people and killed innocents while gaslighting that it was the other side's fault.
I knew you'd keep up this narrative, even with Dan Bongino shitting on your narrative -- and Dan has actual experience, whereas you have fuck and all.
Name does not check out....but who's kidding who, after all?
Name checks out pretty damn well. There was after all no violence during this search. No threats or hints of violence. Except two years later. In people's imaginations.
even with Dan Bongino shitting on your narrative -- and Dan has actual experience, whereas you have fuck and all.
Actually a lot of my POV on this is from Shipwreckedcrew on Twitter who is currently in a twitterfight with Dan.
@shipwreckedcrew
22 years as fed. prosecutor;
Def. Attorney for 55+ Jan 6 Defs.
An ops plan doesn’t “authorize” any use of force that otherwise would not have been authorized.
Correct. That authority to use lethal force comes with the training, the oath, and the credentials. The Ops Plan is just written “legalese” that makes FBI General Counsel sleep better at night. Nothing depends on it being there or what exactly it says. It’s not necessary but it’s always included.
This issues is about boilerplate info that is at the beginning of every Ops Plan for a search warrant.
They aren’t created from scratch. The agent takes a recent one and makes changes where necessary re case, location, date, time, etc. But the “use of force” language never changes. It’s in the same place from the previous version used for an earlier search.
This language was not put there because it was MAL. Some modifications on how to coordinate with USSS were included - part of the specifics of the case. But some form of this language is used by every federal agency, not just the FBI.
It's not easy to follow their twitterfight because they are quote tweeted.
My whole position on this is FBI like Secret Service like the police like soldiers on base are not authorized to use deadly force except in very rare cases.
Let’s assume that Trump and his family were there that day, how hard would it have been for the FBI to just open up fire and later claim they were fired upon first? Point being, there wouldn’t need to be someone to “start it” if they just claimed there was.
Even if we could later prove they lied it would be too late at that point.
You realize we're in the land of fantasy now. We are imagining some super violent event. About something that already happened with not only no violence, but without even the hint of violence.
If we are going deep into the world of imagination, what's to prevent the Secret Service from opening fire on Trump or soldiers or any other government employee who is given a gun?
Let’s assume that Trump and his family were there that day, how hard would it have been for the FBI to just open up fire and later claim they were fired upon first?
Like if you think this was a real possible, thing, how would the standard FBI policy prevent this? You're describing straight up criminal activity. What you are describing is absolutely NOT ALLOWED under the standard FBI policy.
What you're describing violates multiple parts of the FBI policy on deadly force which IS ALL ABOUT THE LIMITS on the FBI.
Specifically it would violate the duty of an FBI agent to intervene if another FBI agent did as you said
1-16.400 - AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO INTERVENE
Officers will be trained in, and must recognize and act upon, the affirmative duty to intervene to prevent or stop, as appropriate, any officer from engaging in excessive force or any other use of force that violates the Constitution, other federal laws, or Department policies on the reasonable use of force.
It would also violate this section
This policy is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or equity, against the United States, its departments, agencies, or other entities, its officer or employees, or any other person.
As for why are we hearing about this now. This is from a guy who is very familiar with DOJ operations plans. It came out because it was in a court document.
Question: If lethal force guidance for MAL raid is so standard and NBFD—why are we just learning of it now?
Because the Op Plan was in the discovery sent to Trump’s defense and Trump’s defense made use of it in the argument for selective prosecution.
Unless further restricted by DHS Component policy, DHS LEOs are permitted to use force to control subjects in the course of their official duties as authorized by law, and in defense of themselves and others. In doing so, a LEO shall use only the force that is objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances confronting him or her at the time force is applied.
Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person.
you have a point, but it seems weird that would authorize lethal force in such a scenario...as if they expected Big Don to sick the Secret service on the FBI or something... granted they got it wrong, because they understand anyone outside of their coastal bubbles about as well as a cricket understands nuclear physics, but the fact that they were willing to take that risk for the sake of a glorified publicity stunt is just...evil
This was a soft warrant service from the get go. It was strange to include that in the narrative of rhe warrant service plan. We always did our risk assessments and mitigation but we never needed it stated because deadly force is implied IF a deadly threat presents itself. They had secret service liaison and no overt threat against the warrant service. So I think they wanted to make it look like trump was hostile. This back fired on them big time and they look stupid asbhell for it. The FBI should be divided over this it makes them look absolutely horrible and perhaps that's thebintent.
you have a point, but it seems weird that would authorize lethal force in such a scenario.
The authorization to use Force in the FBI or in any other federal agency where they give you a club to do your job is about the LIMITS on when you are authorized to use deadly force.
It basically the lawyers in the FBi reminding the guys going out into the field with the guns you can only use these if there is an immenient threat of harm.
Trump had two lawyers at Mar a Lago during the search. There were no complaints of violence at the time.
Don't forget- the REPUBLICAN PARTY put Merrick "Gestapo" Garland in power, and has not removed him. Biden only asked for him, but congress is who actually puts these creatures in power.
Does anyone think the fbi would have overcome the president trumps security? They would have absolutely got their asses handed to them. Secret service isn't just 4 to 8 guys in suits walking a triangle. There are behind the scenes tactical units, electronic surveillance, and intelligence gathering that saw this raid coming a mile away. Keeping that in mind and how it's now being portrayed is is deeply Exposing DOJ and FBI's rogue elements. They are reacting to it and it's the most overt threatening act against trump the public has seen. The trump haters don't care and would welcome it, we already know it's screwed, but now you have a broad spectrum of media talking about it and piling up the sins of those two departments and thier concerted corruption. This puts them even further on the defensive and reacting and likely affects the FBI morale internally. I think this is aimed at dividing them further both from DOJ influence and internally. This is a serious line that no good man would want to be associated with. Whistleblowers.
For those that don't do X...
"If you are dumb enough to believe it’s standard operating procedure for the FBI to:
Then you are an enemy of America."
In reality, it's probably in Q's plan to have Trump treated this way in order to normalize it happening, so when it actually happens to the other FPOTUS it won't be challenged as illegitimate by people who actually care about this country.
LOL as if Republicants would ever inflict turnabout on the other side
If this is considered SOP these days then they are admitting to using Gestapo Tactics across the board with Presidents and Grandmothers alike.
It's going to get bumpier...
They will regret dearly when the turntables...
are turned!
Allow myself to introduce......
Turntables? Like a record player? IDU
Under emphasized is the polo shirts and concealed equipment. Why??? Were they trying to start a firefight?? Were they trying to conceal their identity if they killed Trump or family members? Did they know that Trump wasn’t there? Or maybe the low level thwarted the DS plan by going when he was not there.
With whom would they have started a firefight?
They absolutely did. They specifically scheduled the search for when Trump was not there. The club is also closed in August.
They mentioned this at the time, they were not trying to create a spectacle. We did even learn the FBI was there until after they left.The FBi did not release details of this. A local FL website got tipped off and confirmed it with folks in Trump's orbit. They posted just after the FBI left. Trump soon confirmed it.
It would have been super, super to determine who was there.
Does the fbi pay you directly or does it go through an ngo first?
Answer this question.
With whom would they have started a firefight? How would it started.
Oh yes, because they're ALWAYS honest about who started what. The federal government has never instigated an engagement with people and killed innocents while gaslighting that it was the other side's fault.
I knew you'd keep up this narrative, even with Dan Bongino shitting on your narrative -- and Dan has actual experience, whereas you have fuck and all.
Name does not check out....but who's kidding who, after all?
Name checks out pretty damn well. There was after all no violence during this search. No threats or hints of violence. Except two years later. In people's imaginations.
Actually a lot of my POV on this is from Shipwreckedcrew on Twitter who is currently in a twitterfight with Dan.
@shipwreckedcrew 22 years as fed. prosecutor; Def. Attorney for 55+ Jan 6 Defs.
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1793382800558817776
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1793366127168635154
It's not easy to follow their twitterfight because they are quote tweeted.
My whole position on this is FBI like Secret Service like the police like soldiers on base are not authorized to use deadly force except in very rare cases.
The FBI language is about limits.
Sure. The people who love "plausible deniability" have plausible deniability.
The whole point is being able to see through it, and we see through it.
Let’s assume that Trump and his family were there that day, how hard would it have been for the FBI to just open up fire and later claim they were fired upon first? Point being, there wouldn’t need to be someone to “start it” if they just claimed there was.
Even if we could later prove they lied it would be too late at that point.
You realize we're in the land of fantasy now. We are imagining some super violent event. About something that already happened with not only no violence, but without even the hint of violence.
If we are going deep into the world of imagination, what's to prevent the Secret Service from opening fire on Trump or soldiers or any other government employee who is given a gun?
Like if you think this was a real possible, thing, how would the standard FBI policy prevent this? You're describing straight up criminal activity. What you are describing is absolutely NOT ALLOWED under the standard FBI policy.
Have you read it? https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy-use-force
What you're describing violates multiple parts of the FBI policy on deadly force which IS ALL ABOUT THE LIMITS on the FBI.
Specifically it would violate the duty of an FBI agent to intervene if another FBI agent did as you said
It would also violate this section
We live under a government that doesn’t follow the rules though.
This event already happened. There was no violence. There was no threat of violence. No one has complained of violence.
What are we doing here?
If William (Bill) Cooper were still alive he could answer that for you.
All true. So why the spin now? I posted above what I think.
What is the "spin." Who is spinning it?
As for why are we hearing about this now. This is from a guy who is very familiar with DOJ operations plans. It came out because it was in a court document.
https://x.com/shipwreckedcrew/status/1793489695974084791
they were hoping he'd be provoked enough to FAFO and "make their day, punk" etc. A legal justifiable assassination essentially.
Who would be provoked?
Trump he was in NYC
Did they know he wouldn't be there?
Yes. They did. He was in NY
They had a plan for what happened if he comes back. It's only a 3 hr flight.
Any Feds paying attention; think about this a minute.
they were willing to put people just like you in a potential firefight with Secret Service just to make a media circus.
How long until they do it to you?
How was this a potential firefight? The Secret Service were notified the FBI was going do a search of Mar a Lago that day
Both the FBI and the Secret Service basically have the same Use of Force standard.
Secret Service https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/mgmt/law-enforcement/mgmt-dir_044-05-department-policy-on-the-use-of-force.pdf
FBI https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy-use-force
Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person.
Both are trained in de-escalation tactics.
you have a point, but it seems weird that would authorize lethal force in such a scenario...as if they expected Big Don to sick the Secret service on the FBI or something... granted they got it wrong, because they understand anyone outside of their coastal bubbles about as well as a cricket understands nuclear physics, but the fact that they were willing to take that risk for the sake of a glorified publicity stunt is just...evil
This was a soft warrant service from the get go. It was strange to include that in the narrative of rhe warrant service plan. We always did our risk assessments and mitigation but we never needed it stated because deadly force is implied IF a deadly threat presents itself. They had secret service liaison and no overt threat against the warrant service. So I think they wanted to make it look like trump was hostile. This back fired on them big time and they look stupid asbhell for it. The FBI should be divided over this it makes them look absolutely horrible and perhaps that's thebintent.
The authorization to use Force in the FBI or in any other federal agency where they give you a club to do your job is about the LIMITS on when you are authorized to use deadly force.
It basically the lawyers in the FBi reminding the guys going out into the field with the guns you can only use these if there is an immenient threat of harm.
Trump had two lawyers at Mar a Lago during the search. There were no complaints of violence at the time.
He was not there. He was in NY.
$20 says if a shoot-out did happen, Garland already had orders ready to tell the Secret Service to stand down.
Trump needs to get his own security, asap. People not under control of the enemy ...
Trump has his own security as well, unless that has changed.
He absolutely does or he would be dead already.
Don't forget- the REPUBLICAN PARTY put Merrick "Gestapo" Garland in power, and has not removed him. Biden only asked for him, but congress is who actually puts these creatures in power.
Does anyone think the fbi would have overcome the president trumps security? They would have absolutely got their asses handed to them. Secret service isn't just 4 to 8 guys in suits walking a triangle. There are behind the scenes tactical units, electronic surveillance, and intelligence gathering that saw this raid coming a mile away. Keeping that in mind and how it's now being portrayed is is deeply Exposing DOJ and FBI's rogue elements. They are reacting to it and it's the most overt threatening act against trump the public has seen. The trump haters don't care and would welcome it, we already know it's screwed, but now you have a broad spectrum of media talking about it and piling up the sins of those two departments and thier concerted corruption. This puts them even further on the defensive and reacting and likely affects the FBI morale internally. I think this is aimed at dividing them further both from DOJ influence and internally. This is a serious line that no good man would want to be associated with. Whistleblowers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jhv-LWDp7c
FBI objected to raid…..they were over ruled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UilV4-ScyRo
Unless the USSS is also compromised.
Of course it is.