I listened to Trump's speech. I don't recall him saying the word amnesty at any time. Instead, I remember him saying that he would find a way to allow them to stay and work legally. It made me think of agricultural work visas, not amnesty.
It is lose-lose for American workers and legal immigrants.
Reward aliens for going around the law?? Reward stinkin' employers for going around the law?!? And paying substandard wages? Often under the table?
Hence also taking advantage of the aliens, who cannot complain for fear of their illegal status. But they still can financially benefit, by living multiples in a house for wages they could not support a family on here, but in those arrangements can still send money home! Which money transfers Mexico loves.
NO going to the head of the line! NO rewarding scofflaws!
Would you want a scofflaw taking care of your children? Cleaning your house? Doing your landscaping? NOT ME! Skirting the law is a warning sign of bad character.
IF they are honest, they will self-deport and come back legally. Otherwise they are not trustworthy.
AND their employers are not trustworthy! They need to be held to account for their illegal and destructive treatment of legitimate workers, and the illegal aliens they use.
How are they allowed to get by with this illegal process?!? Where has enforcement been, to stop sub-standard wages to illegals such that American workers and legal immigrants cannot compete??
Dems and the likes of the chamber of commerce I guess?? Enforcement agencies turning a blind eye?!? It is incomprehensible that our laws have been flouted for decades!
The use of subcontractors. It is against federal law to inquire about the immigration status of a subcontractor. They hire down the line (think of pass through corporations) until the person doing the work is a subcontractor. Technically, someone not from or even in this country can have a company here, get paid via an I-9 , have a bank account and do business. The I-9 does not give you the right to work in this country (only own the business) but they still do. That's how they do construction jobs also. Office cleaning crews, hair salon and you name it
Updoot for use of 'scofflaw'. I think Trump is anticipating a massive labor shortage in about 12 to 24 months once a lot of manufacturing gets re-established stateside. No labor, the CEOs are going to be screaming bloody murder that they were 'coerced' to return to US without sufficient labor force.
I wonder if there could be certain citizen-only jobs and 'legit' work-authorization jobs segregated to reward the 'did it right the first time' people. The industries that were relying heavily on undocumented labor (maybe agriculture and construction, some food processing, etc) could have their entry-level positions open to all who have a 'quick-pass' work card, (a new level of work permit) or a seasonal work-card. Maybe those work-cards could be illegals here now with completely clean record and permit them to self-report to local offices for enrollment. This would satisfy most of the industry labor issues while still pegging the advanced jobs (higher pay) only for legally work-authorized people who have been playing the game legally, and of course, citizens. Medicaid/care benefits stop for the work-card and anyone else that is not work-authorized or citizen. If the employer wants to self purchase a policy to cover these work-card workers, it's on them. I understand that you're never going to get around people using the ERs for their primary care (because of the EMTALA) but this would eliminate a lot of weight off the Medicaid/care system, food stamps, etc. If you are working under any of these programs, (work card, work auth, etc), you should be able to support yourself and family. Throw this back on the giant Ag farms who have been benefiting from this cheap labor for decades.
There will be a market for crash-course high-intensity training and certification centers. The smart fringe will take advantage. The highly-educated airheads will be relegated to shit jobs like mopping floors and playing "barista." Universities may see a massive enrollment shift away from fluff arts and toward the hard sciences, engineering, and medicine. Professors of Pedophile Studies will be on the streets with sandwich signs. Being a geek will entitle one to respect.
reminds me of how billionaires and millionaires use tax havens and don't have to pay a tax rate like we do. Their accounts are offshore. read: out of the united states. They spend their money elsewhere.
I scoff at many laws, sometimes even driving over the speed limit. And I have jaywalked from time to time. I have enjoyed fireworks despite their being illegal in my county. I don't even feel guilty about any of those.
I don't want an amnesty either. Let's see what he actually proposes and argue about that.
Well, I won't condemn him for that. At any time in the last few decades you probably couldn't run a farm profitably without using foreigners. Heck, it costs money just to filter out illegals, and even if you spend it you'll probably hire some by accident anyway. Just like the restaurant business.
Because there has been no enforcement against employers that go around the system - usually because they are part of the trafficking network and want the slave labor.
Not a fan of forced labor.But why should convicts get to sit on their butt while law abiding citizens pay for their care.The line must be drawn somewhere.
The guest workers from Guatemala love getting enough money to live large in Guatemala. A few months of work and 8 or 9 months of vacation. They happily come back to work the fields and happily leave at the end of the season. Legal workers are typically not the problem
I know,all this commie bullshit about who will pick the crops without illegals is completely false.
If we eliminate the illegals, companies will have to go to the trouble,of getting legal temporary workers. It will probably cost a bit more,but be better for everyone,including the workers.
Hell, My white grandmother picked cotton with my mom and her siblings in the 40's and early 50's. There was no help for single moms back then except for Catholic charities. Lots of men went to war and the women had to raise the family on their own
For a century after emancipation, Black Americans remained the majority of laborers in cotton fields.
Even though many Black individuals moved away from field work to find other jobs, farmers sought new sources of inexpensive labor, leading to the hiring of non-citizen workers from Mexico and other countries.
It's important to recognize that the history of cotton picking involves various groups, labor systems, and historical events, including slavery and the exploitation of immigrant labor.
Also, equipment manufacturers have developed new equipment with AI and GPS for self driving tractors. The new AI for herbicide application has cameras that identify the weed and only spray the weed instead of dusting the entire field. We are hurting development of new technology by using them.
Yeah, pretty much eat shit and die and get the fuck out of my country. Including all the little babies, I don’t want you here anymore.. WE SAY BYE-BYE!
Yep.
Hire americans. They don't crap.
Also, less corpo regulation will make the food safer.
Smart people doing smart things will make us all healthy and rich
If President Trump or anyone in his administration really does come to this board, they need to see that we are not happy about this decision at all and why we aren't and what other alternatives we have. I say this even needs to be stickied in case they only come for the top topics.
I have a family member who has been through the legal route and it is awful. Endless (unnecessary) bureaucracy which a regular person cannot navigate without an expensive lawyer. Nobody could do it unless they had good financial backing. No surprise that illegals try to side-step all that grief.
Not saying I agree with illegal immigration because I don't. But you could usefully clean up your act, streamline the process, and remove the disincentives.
Understand that.But it is still theft that we taxpayer must pay for.You might share your meal with a hungry person,but would you force your child to give said person half of their meal.I'm not against immigrants or farmers.I am against paying either's way.
I listened to Trump's speech. I don't recall him saying the word amnesty at any time. Instead, I remember him saying that he would find a way to allow them to stay and work legally. It made me think of agricultural work visas, not amnesty.
No illegals, period! They broke the law, they should leave and come back LEGALLY.
It is lose-lose for American workers and legal immigrants.
Reward aliens for going around the law?? Reward stinkin' employers for going around the law?!? And paying substandard wages? Often under the table?
Hence also taking advantage of the aliens, who cannot complain for fear of their illegal status. But they still can financially benefit, by living multiples in a house for wages they could not support a family on here, but in those arrangements can still send money home! Which money transfers Mexico loves.
NO going to the head of the line! NO rewarding scofflaws!
Would you want a scofflaw taking care of your children? Cleaning your house? Doing your landscaping? NOT ME! Skirting the law is a warning sign of bad character.
IF they are honest, they will self-deport and come back legally. Otherwise they are not trustworthy.
AND their employers are not trustworthy! They need to be held to account for their illegal and destructive treatment of legitimate workers, and the illegal aliens they use.
The farmers are typically not the problem. It's the harvesting companies that hire the illegals.
How are they allowed to get by with this illegal process?!? Where has enforcement been, to stop sub-standard wages to illegals such that American workers and legal immigrants cannot compete??
Dems and the likes of the chamber of commerce I guess?? Enforcement agencies turning a blind eye?!? It is incomprehensible that our laws have been flouted for decades!
The use of subcontractors. It is against federal law to inquire about the immigration status of a subcontractor. They hire down the line (think of pass through corporations) until the person doing the work is a subcontractor. Technically, someone not from or even in this country can have a company here, get paid via an I-9 , have a bank account and do business. The I-9 does not give you the right to work in this country (only own the business) but they still do. That's how they do construction jobs also. Office cleaning crews, hair salon and you name it
I get it!!
You are 100 percent correct. This is my beef with it too. Cutting in line in ANY way is just plain wrong.
Updoot for use of 'scofflaw'. I think Trump is anticipating a massive labor shortage in about 12 to 24 months once a lot of manufacturing gets re-established stateside. No labor, the CEOs are going to be screaming bloody murder that they were 'coerced' to return to US without sufficient labor force.
I wonder if there could be certain citizen-only jobs and 'legit' work-authorization jobs segregated to reward the 'did it right the first time' people. The industries that were relying heavily on undocumented labor (maybe agriculture and construction, some food processing, etc) could have their entry-level positions open to all who have a 'quick-pass' work card, (a new level of work permit) or a seasonal work-card. Maybe those work-cards could be illegals here now with completely clean record and permit them to self-report to local offices for enrollment. This would satisfy most of the industry labor issues while still pegging the advanced jobs (higher pay) only for legally work-authorized people who have been playing the game legally, and of course, citizens. Medicaid/care benefits stop for the work-card and anyone else that is not work-authorized or citizen. If the employer wants to self purchase a policy to cover these work-card workers, it's on them. I understand that you're never going to get around people using the ERs for their primary care (because of the EMTALA) but this would eliminate a lot of weight off the Medicaid/care system, food stamps, etc. If you are working under any of these programs, (work card, work auth, etc), you should be able to support yourself and family. Throw this back on the giant Ag farms who have been benefiting from this cheap labor for decades.
There will be a market for crash-course high-intensity training and certification centers. The smart fringe will take advantage. The highly-educated airheads will be relegated to shit jobs like mopping floors and playing "barista." Universities may see a massive enrollment shift away from fluff arts and toward the hard sciences, engineering, and medicine. Professors of Pedophile Studies will be on the streets with sandwich signs. Being a geek will entitle one to respect.
reminds me of how billionaires and millionaires use tax havens and don't have to pay a tax rate like we do. Their accounts are offshore. read: out of the united states. They spend their money elsewhere.
I scoff at many laws, sometimes even driving over the speed limit. And I have jaywalked from time to time. I have enjoyed fireworks despite their being illegal in my county. I don't even feel guilty about any of those.
I don't want an amnesty either. Let's see what he actually proposes and argue about that.
My husband hired foreign workers LEGALLY when he had the farm. What's wrong with doing the same now?
Well, I won't condemn him for that. At any time in the last few decades you probably couldn't run a farm profitably without using foreigners. Heck, it costs money just to filter out illegals, and even if you spend it you'll probably hire some by accident anyway. Just like the restaurant business.
Hire Americans first
My husband did hire locals first but he needed more help. The farm was 2500 acres.
Even if we have to subsidize the farmers for awhile.Also I would like to see convicts harvesting.No work,no eat.Run,we kill you.
There have always been legal guest worker provisions for agricultural workers.
Yup, the program has been around for years. They come and work, then go home.
It worked! What happened to allow employers and their hires to go rouge?
Because there has been no enforcement against employers that go around the system - usually because they are part of the trafficking network and want the slave labor.
Amen fren
Not in the dark. This is out in the open.
Based AF
Until the "system" needs more labor and they convict whoever they can get into a courtroom! It has already been done.
Like that idea much.
Based AF.
you really cant see the cross incentives here and how that could/would/will easily become corrupted at the cost of life.
Heres the countries that force labor.
Belarus Brazil China Egypt Eritrea Libya Mali Mongolia Myanmar North Korea Poland Russia Rwanda Turkmenistan United States Vietnam Zimbabwe
Cool
Not a fan of forced labor.But why should convicts get to sit on their butt while law abiding citizens pay for their care.The line must be drawn somewhere.
Any alligators involved?
Agree.
We have legal programs,for temporary farm work.
They make good money and then go home to their families.
The guest workers from Guatemala love getting enough money to live large in Guatemala. A few months of work and 8 or 9 months of vacation. They happily come back to work the fields and happily leave at the end of the season. Legal workers are typically not the problem
I know,all this commie bullshit about who will pick the crops without illegals is completely false.
If we eliminate the illegals, companies will have to go to the trouble,of getting legal temporary workers. It will probably cost a bit more,but be better for everyone,including the workers.
Hell, My white grandmother picked cotton with my mom and her siblings in the 40's and early 50's. There was no help for single moms back then except for Catholic charities. Lots of men went to war and the women had to raise the family on their own
For a century after emancipation, Black Americans remained the majority of laborers in cotton fields. Even though many Black individuals moved away from field work to find other jobs, farmers sought new sources of inexpensive labor, leading to the hiring of non-citizen workers from Mexico and other countries. It's important to recognize that the history of cotton picking involves various groups, labor systems, and historical events, including slavery and the exploitation of immigrant labor.
Also, equipment manufacturers have developed new equipment with AI and GPS for self driving tractors. The new AI for herbicide application has cameras that identify the weed and only spray the weed instead of dusting the entire field. We are hurting development of new technology by using them.
https://www.youtube.com/@WelkerFarms
I know all about it,I watch this farm channel once in awhile,they are good Christian people.
I like Scott's attitude, shut up and dig. It's my attitude when I'm framing
Yeah, pretty much eat shit and die and get the fuck out of my country. Including all the little babies, I don’t want you here anymore.. WE SAY BYE-BYE!
EXACTLY! They do not deserve to be rewarded for bad and illegal behavior, which also testifies to their character.
yeah. to hell with those babies. Lords children done fucked up.
This
We are farmers. We don't use illegals. So I say send all illegals back to where they came from.
Farmers work harder than any hired laborer anyway.
Right on!
They crap in the fields and spread ecoli
Yes I thought of that too.
Yep. Hire americans. They don't crap. Also, less corpo regulation will make the food safer. Smart people doing smart things will make us all healthy and rich
Hear! Hear!
They're an invading army and should be treated as such. They're parasitic vermin.
If President Trump or anyone in his administration really does come to this board, they need to see that we are not happy about this decision at all and why we aren't and what other alternatives we have. I say this even needs to be stickied in case they only come for the top topics.
My hopes, too.
We have sympathy for human beings, but it is NOT too much to expect for them to come here LEGALLY!!!
they will see their mistake and absolutely fix it. They just need to see the suffering. They'll realize we are the good poor people.
Most illegals chose illegal entry because they wouldn't be able to enter legally either due to financial hardship or criminality.
I have a family member who has been through the legal route and it is awful. Endless (unnecessary) bureaucracy which a regular person cannot navigate without an expensive lawyer. Nobody could do it unless they had good financial backing. No surprise that illegals try to side-step all that grief.
Not saying I agree with illegal immigration because I don't. But you could usefully clean up your act, streamline the process, and remove the disincentives.
Understand that.But it is still theft that we taxpayer must pay for.You might share your meal with a hungry person,but would you force your child to give said person half of their meal.I'm not against immigrants or farmers.I am against paying either's way.
Gives new meaning to the term, "grape smuggler" doesn't it?
u/#enjoythestorm
u/#receipt