bought a collection of videotapes at a government surplus auction
Right, but the claim is about telemetry data tapes - NOT videotapes.
RESIST THE FLAT EARTH FAGGOTS. DO YOUR RESEARCH.
I couldn’t agree more. It is the burden of all students to thoroughly validate all claims (facts are merely one type of claim) before accepting them, regardless of source.
I'm smarter than you.
I think you might have missed the content, and point, of my previous comment(s) entirely :(
If you are smarter, demonstrate it by attacking the thoughts/statements i make and not the thinker who makes them. Ad hominem is the last resort of the mentally weak. Demonstrate your strength by viciously attacking the thoughts directly - not childishly attacking the thinker out of desperation!
Those that lack the intellectual capacity to attack the thoughts, instead resort to attacking the thinker out of desperation and incompetence.
Do better if you can, brother or sister.
If you think 10 seconds of research is sufficient (for anything), you have much bigger problems than the moon landing hoax.
I agree that pictures like this aren’t great proof for, or against, any “moon landing”.
However, they are certainly evidence that faking photos of “lunar environments” on earth at the time was trivial and somewhat routine.
What kind of lens can isolate the "curvature" distortion only on the planets, not the spacecraft?
the kind that is used to photograph the “spacecraft” up close and then not used to composite in fakes of the spherical moon and earth - of course!
if you have earnest interest in this topic, please join us on flatearthresearch to exchange views (including criticism!) in further depth.
Thank you for invite
My pleasure! It stands open to you in any case, and to anyone else interested in earnestly exploring the subject.
however, I have gone over the theory already,
I can’t be certain, as we have just begun discussing - but it is unlikely that this is true. Due to the heavy advertising/funding of the FE psyop, you have likely “gone over” a contrived strawman intended to be irrational and offensively stupid.
Furthermore, flat earth research is most often studied independently. As such, there is wild variance in views, approaches, and conclusions. There is no cohesive “theory” which all ascribe to (that’s the psyop), and most have their individual (and often incompatible) and distinct perspectives.
I am pretty confident that you have not gone over my perspective before, and you will likely find the discussion worthwhile assuming you are interested and earnest.
people are very creative in their passions to discover
Agreed. In imagination, all things are possible; not so much in reality though. As biased subjective creatures it is frightfully easy to find “evidence” of whatever we are looking for, no matter what. This is the origin of all mythology.
Does not mean I can honestly agree and just go along with any of them
Nor should you! We should determine things for ourselves, and not “go along” with others blindly (or merely because they do, as a pack animal would - off the metaphorical cliff) This tenet is core to flat earth research.
From that moment on i knew 100% there was much more out there, in existence, than we know.
This is always the case.
There are many good responses here already, which i hope you have considered / are considering. In general - Why should any subject be “verboten”, even (and perhaps especially) if they are incorrect?
Anyway, i will add my perspective for good measure.
Firstly, you are mostly right. “Conspiracy theory/ist” is a terminology created specifically and procedurally used for discrediting researchers and journalists since the late 40’s (by the OSS, which became the CIA).
Anyone you hear using that terminology is either mistaken/manipulated (a sleeping “matrix” user) or an active bad faith agent (“agent smith”, to continue the matrix movie analogy)
Furthermore, you are also correct that FE is a heavily advertised (i.e. funded) psyop being used by our enemies in the manner you outline. However, that is not the psyop’s original purpose - but actually a fringe benefit because it has been so successful.
The true original/primary purpose of the FE psyop is to ensure that you never earnestly study or discuss the subject. This is specifically because of how valuable and rewarding it is. The primary way this is done is by loudly advertising and falsely associating offensively stupid concepts/ideas with it. The fact that such an expensive ad campaign is required (and funded/justified) to discredit a subject that is already ostensibly stupid by default should tell you a lot!
As for Q’s response you posted :
Flat earth: https://qalerts.app/?n=2622
The issue is that the wrong question was asked :(
The earth isn’t flat (for one thing, it has topography), which is why Q answered that it wasn’t.
They should have asked if the earth were spherical the way we are taught.
If you want to discuss or explore this subject further, and the heavily advertised (i.e. heavily funded) psyop that surrounds it - please join us on flatearthresearch!
Well spotted.
This means that people who call them “conspiracy theories” incorrectly are either mistaken, or doing so in bad faith for slander/suppresion.
As for “watch it be the only thing out there that ends up being real”, please join us on flatearthresearch to further explore the subject if you are interested!
Debate is a silly game, and across purposes to learning and communication of any kind.
To anyone with an earnest interest in exploring/discussing the subject (rather than mindless and fruitless “debate”) and/or exchanging perspectives on it - please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss it!
The most fundamental scientific reason why the earth cannot be spherical the way we are taught is that the laws of hydrostatics, which have stood largely unchanged for 3 centuries, i.e. the natural behavior of liquid water at rest do not allow it. There is SO much to discuss about this subject, and this is only one potential place to begin exploring it.
FE is a CIA/NASA psy-op. Change my mind
I would, but i largely agree with you. The heavily advertised (i.e. funded) flat earth psyop is quite real, though i don’t speculate on which agencies/parties are involved.
What most people misunderstand, likely including yourself, is the primary purpose of the flat earth psyop. It is really to make flat earth research seem so offensively stupid that no one ever bothers studying the important subject. It is most assuredly NOT to spread interest in the subject, contrary to popular (and heavily encouraged/advertised) misconception.
If you are interested in learning more about the subject, why it is so important, and/or exchanging our views on it - please join us on flatearthresearch to do just that!
To anyone with an interest in this subject (for, against, neutral), please join us on flatearthresearch to exchange and explore our views further!
This was a little “numerology” for my taste, and of course doesn’t establish the shape of anything - but i do enjoy greek-style geometery.
Would be quite unlikely that all the other massive celestial objects are spherical EXCEPT for... flat Earth.
Perhaps. However I like to make determinations scientifically, not probabilistically. Reality is a wild place, and does not conform to our expectations of likelihood.
If we want to know the shape of the earth, we have to study the shape of the earth! Studying the shape of things in the sky (“astronomically” far away, and so not directly study-able) to infer the shape of the ground you stand on is unscientific and silly!
Maybe, but why would the shape or the earth be dependent on the shape of the moon anyhow (spherical, flat, or otherwise)?
I have several answers to your question.
If you are interested, please let me know!
I am a fan of sagan, but this is presented all wrong.
Eratosthenes knew the world was spherical, like most educated ancient greeks, because he was taught it as fact from childhood, the same way we are today. He never once questioned that fact, nor ever sought to validate it.
His method was designed to calculate the circumference of the earth and absolutely requires that the world be spherical in order to be at all sensical.
The ancient greeks “knew” the world was spherical because they were taught it as fact from childhood, and the (admittedly extremely spotty) history shows that the reason was due to pythagoras’ musings on lunar eclipses; eratosthenes had absolutely nothing to do with it.
If you have an interest in this topic please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss it, as such discussions are unwelcome here (as per the mods). If you can’t find it, let me know and i will pm you a link.
Earth is flat
So “outer space” writ large is entirely fake and gay - and this is just more of the same confirming that?
arch attitude
I think I’ve been quite cordial! What is an “arch attitude”?
and made unsubstantiated claims, with no offering of alternatives
Just let me know what claim you need substantiation of and/or alternative to and I’m happy to oblige if I can! Ask and ye shall receive!
You haven't given me a single reason to stop and listen, much less ask questions.
Nor do I intend to! If you want to know, you’ll ask (and/or earnestly and considerately read what I write; “listen” as you said) ! If you are happy to continue not knowing - you won’t. Simple! I can’t force you to learn about other perspectives and I wouldn’t even if I could!
they simply cannot identify a crucial fact that supports their position
Firstly, there really aren’t any flat earthers outside of the psyop and the useful idiots that fall for it. In any case, I’m a flat earth researcher - we study the psyop and related topics.
Secondly, what is a “crucial fact”? Can you provide an example?
like the observation of the "largely spherical" Earth from outer space
If it were YOUR observation it might be worth discussing, but personally I am more of a science lover. In science we don’t simply observe and declare, we measure and experiment! And as independent researchers/students we should never rely on unvalidated and unvalidateable claims for evidence (aka abject appeal to authority). There are very good reasons for keeping our discussion “down to earth” - the chief one being that the world, who’s shape we are discussing, is down here!
I am not interested in discourse with dishonest people.
Me neither! However, I have given you no reason to suspect dishonesty (and if I have, please cite a specific lie/falshood so I can meaningfully respond). I work very hard to be earnest and honest, and effective communication is very difficult and takes significant effort from all participants! Try not to rush to judgement if you can!
The equtorial bulge is not something we are "taught"
Of course it is! I think you mean to say it is not just something we are taught and not something we are taught with no justification / supporting evidence.
it is something that can be measured
If it were real, I agree it could (and must) be!
It also affects the precession of satellite orbits.
I prefer to keep the conversation a bit more “down to earth”, and avoid such abject appeals to authority (as an independent researcher and student). Surely we need not appeal to satellite orbits to measure this supposed bulge - right?
As a result of all this observation, the world is not flat and stationary.
That largely has to do with interpretation of the observations, not the observations themselves! Though I am not certain of the entire shape of the world, I have concluded (based on said observations) that it is both not spherical the way we are taught, and it is (largely) stationary.
Calling it a "pseudoforce" is your gaffe.
The coriolis effect does not involve any actual acceleration of any kind (except that of, at least, one of the reference frames of course). It is to do with differing reference frames. I encourage you to read about it, though there is a lot of conflation of the two things out there (as I said, it is woefully taught). Actual deflection caused by acceleration due to actual rotation is just that (in physics)! Coriolis is the illusion thereof due to differing reference frame!
You have no scientific credentials.
True!
You wear your ignorance proudly on your sleeve
True! As we all should! How else will others know of our ignorance and be able to share their knowledge to help dispel us of it (ideally) ?!
Or do you subscribe to the radical paranoid view that nothing can be trusted?
Lol. I largely side with the spooks; “Trust, but verify!”. The burden to thoroughly validate all information before accepting it as correct/true always falls on the student! Sadly conditioning through rote under the guise of education from childhood is not conducive to recognizing that!
If that is the case, how can you possibly trust the Bible?
I trust no book (nor any source) blindly, nor should I! However, I have found truth within it, as well as many lies. As I said - trust (if you wish), but verify! The scriptures are to be tried as a blacksmith tries gold.
What you are leaving out of consideration is that if any of this is false, it would show up rapidly as a collision of engineering theory and engineering fact. It doesn't.
Quite the opposite! I have (and do) consider it a great deal! It will take little more than time and your interest to understand why, and what I mean. There is no conflict, inherent or otherwise - there merely appears to be due to your perspective (a “coriolis effect” of concept, if you will)
I guess you don't understand any astronomy, either
Many flat earth researchers, such as myself, were/are lovers of science. I have a keen interest in astronomy and understand it pretty well. I also had a keen interest in theosophy, and the contradictions between the two disciplines! Before you can understand why I make these wildly heretical statements, we will need to discuss what science is (in order to discern what is and is not science) - assuming you are interested in learning more about my perspective.
The whole day-night cycle is impossible for a flat Earth.
This is a common misconception. I look forward to discussing other alternatives that you have likely not considered/encountered before, assuming you are interested!
Facts are put to the test in all of our technology, which would not work if there were any gap between theory and reality
There is always gap between those two things and often that gap is very large. We don’t have to understand or be correct about our understanding in order to build and/or do things! Someone once told me “It is the function that matters”. The pudding is tasty even (and perhaps especially!) when we don’t understand the steps we take to make it.
It is not only a matter of learning. It is a matter of constantly putting it to the test.
I could not have said it better myself!
What you are saying has no material foundation at all.
I assure you, it is quite the opposite. But it will take time and your interest in order to convey why/how that is!
You are missing out on a lot, because most of modern technology relies on principles and facts that you reject out of hand.
You misunderstand me! Partially this is encouraged by the flat earth psyop and its useful idiots. They often loudly reject science to encourage you to mistakenly believe that all who study this subject, or conclude “heretical” things, must do the same. As I said, it is quite the opposite!
No, there is little for us to discuss
If you insist, however from my perspective our discussion is large, varied, and just beginning!
You are very hard down on a paranoid delusion that all of this is a fable or a fake.
I understand why you feel this way, but you are not describing/criticizing my perspective but a strawman of it of your imagination. To learn my perspective will merely take your time and interest! Assuming you are interested, we have much to talk about!
We (the world) experiences the equatorial bulge due to centripetal acceleration.
So we are taught. However, if the world were flat and stationary (as the bible clearly describes it) this would, of course, be both impossible and untrue.
We also "experience" the Coriolis acceleration that results in cyclones and gives us hurricanes and tornadoes (and even the swirl of water as it goes down the drain).
Actually, no. Coriolis is a psuedoforce, an illusion caused by differing frames of reference! It is woefully taught, as I learned the same thing you are saying too.
The things you are talking about are examples of ACTUAL force caused by the presumed rotation of the world and are not in any way the coriolis effect.
If you want to deny this fact, you end up throwing your "science" credentials in the trash.
I have no credentials. I didn’t just throw them in the trash - I set them on fire too!
My point was that WE (you and I) do not do these things, nor observe these things. We see them on television/screens, and nowhere else. If you believe everything you see on tv, you have major problems! I expect you agree with that?!
And we certainly see it in other heavenly bodies, of which we are one.
No, we aren’t in the sky like the luminaries are! We are on earth! The planets are wandering stars, not rodenberrian places to “land”. Rocks don’t perpetually float above our heads and never fall - that’s stupid!
You seem impervious to facts,
True. I know too much about them, and their half lives. Facts are merely what your authority tells you.
so I don't know what there would be to talk about.
Science, demonstration (qed), and the best ways to determine reality from fiction as independent researchers and students! If you are into that sort of thing, that is!
I think it is a matter of great interest that the primary discoveries in astronomy were made by devout Christians.
I completely agree! Have you seen the documentary “the principle” (2014, I believe)? It may be an interesting place to begin!
Because we experience the accelerations of rotation.
Yes, and we experience (measure them; they are too subtle to experience) them when we aren’t touching the (presumed rotating) ground too...
Because we observe it from orbit.
We do no such thing! And even if we did - merely looking is not how science is conducted. We require measurement in empericism!
If you knew science at all, you would know this.
I know a lot about and study science quite a bit, because I enjoy it! One of my favorite things is discussing and evaluating it further; perhaps you are the same way?
I'm not interested in debating with ignorance
Me neither! Though we can’t completely avoid ignorance (it is our lot), we can certainly avoid the mindless base pageantry of debate - and we should! I prefer rational discourse instead.
The creation is God's Word as much as scripture
Ah, a fellow heretic! I might even go so far as to say that reality (the creation, of which we are a small part) is VASTLY more important, and that what is found in the bible is to be tried as a blacksmith tries gold - by fire! However, this is a radically heretical view. I am a heretic to all religions, most especially scientism.
There is no conflict.
I have not found that to be the case, however I agree with the spirit of your statement. Truth does not contradict truth! If the bible is always true, then the world is fixed and immovable. So says the good book!
to some era that knows nothing about space, the planets, the atmosphere, etc.
You mean like the era when job (and the rest of the bible) was written?
They knew a whole lot more than we give them credit for! There is some amazing stuff hidden away in the bible - for instance did you know that they knew that mountains have roots (it is in one of the subsequent passages from the one you cited, I came across it while doing further research.)? That’s something very few people know today, and even fewer know why!
The diagram is overtaken by factual discovery.
So we are taught! However, it ain't necessarily so - sportin’ life
Would you care to discuss and explore that perspective further?
But the reason is that the Earth rotates.
I disagree! Would you care to discuss the reasons (and science) why?
Ever been on a carousel?
I have!
Genesis is not a tract on geophysics or cosmology.
Right, it is vastly more than that... It contains those things, because is is true - right?!
But differs greatly from the cosmology of Egypt, with which Moses was familiar.
Not really, they are largely the same / compatible. That is also addressed in the book I linked to - you may enjoy/benefit from it!
But the firmament hangs as a tent above us... Hang does not always imply rotation at all (hang a painting, hang a drape etc.)! They had words to express this presumed rotation, but chose not to :(. The bible teaches that the lights in the sky move - not the earth. If you need more unambiguous biblical passage that unequivocally establishes this - let me know! It’s all there in the book, which is how that italian astronomer created his diagram!
it is honestly over an empty place
That’s the whole point! It honestly IS over an empty place - sheol! This is of course the ancient jewish view which is the one the author had, not the scifi fiction we currently suffer from due to mass media indoctrination.
The heavens aren’t empty! That’s insane AND anti-biblical!
Also, it would be the south pole OVER the “empty outer space” - NOT the north (which would be UNDER it)!
Likewise, if God hangs the Earth "upon nothing,"
I appreciate your imaginative rationalization, but it isn’t consistent with the text - nor the meanings of the words (which are known)! The pendant/spinning bit is also inventive, but completely unsupported by the text as well. It’s also contradicted by genesis and heaps of other references. That’s why the jewish conception of the world was/is as it is depicted in the diagram I shared!
If you try to attach this to ancient misunderstandings about the world
If you discard the (known) meanings of the words, you discard the bible :( As I said, much is lost through translation and you are adding insult to injury through such poetry!
If you try to see the truthful meaning in ancient words, it will be a revelation.
Only if the words are correct/true! If you discard the meanings of the words to playfully interpret as you whim, you will and can never understand them!
Also, where would you "hang the Earth" except in some sort of space?
Good question! Erets (earth) also means dirt/ground (just like in our language and for the same reason!).
It is reasonably clear that the author intended to say that the north (the land/country/place) is stretched over the empty cavern of sheol.
It makes a LOT more sense when you understand the jewish conception of the world. Here is a diagram which should help!
Fig. 1.3 Italian astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli’s (who in 1903 published a book on the subject which was translated into english in 1905) reconstruction of the universe of the the Old Testament. The Earth (EEE) is surrounded by a sea (SS), and its surface is connected by streams to a large underground water deposit (NN). Above the Earth is the heavenly tent (ABC), supported by a solid vault (GHG). The space LL contains the waters in heaven, the source of rain. Beneath is the underworld Sheol (PQP), the land of the dead. From Schiaparelli, 1905, pg 33.
Below is the book this diagram came from, however you will need a library card in order to access this link : https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199209163.001.0001/acprof-9780199209163-chapter-2
This is a misunderstanding/misrepresentation at best, and a deliberate hoax at worst.
No one needs to spend a penny, let alone 20k, in order to know the expected measurements from a stationary rlg (ring laser gyroscope).
Michelson–Gale–Pearson first made this observation in 1925. It has nothing to do with the shape of the earth! it has to do with its rotation in regards to luminiferous aether.
To any of you with an interest in this subject (for, against, neutral) please join us on flatearthresearch to explore it and exchange perspectives!