I was a US Civilian Mariner (aka merchant marine) for 16 years or so and a licensed officer for the last 4 years. I recently changed professions due to a welcome addition to my family that I can't bear to leave for months at a time! I'm not here to tell you the Ever Given situation isn't meaningful, I think it is. What I can do is tell you what it's like to live and work in the industry, share my training and experience with large ocean going vessels. Basically I'd like to help dispel nonsense so we can all get to the truth and look good doing it!
I just got off work and I'm starting my weekend, so I'll be back to answer any questions after a good sleep.
Am I still a shipfag if I actually lived it and know what I'm talking about or is that just for armchair followers?
I'd say that being a shipfag is the #1 prerequisite to being a sailor. It just means that your shipfagging is top-shelf quality :)
Are holding patterns like Evegreen's "peen and nuts" pattern unusual?
It's not gay of you're underway.
It's only queer if you're on the pier!
Your credentials check out. You are legit.
Thanks handshake guy!
Lmfao. This place is great.
One measure of kek for the officer & gentlepede.
Just about spit me tea out!!!! Kek!!!! I haven't heard those phrases since my Navy days. I consider myself a shipfag/Navalfag and I got out the Navy in '04. Just uttering the hose two phrases makes you a shipfag, Mariner.
How many times have you seen a large container ship get stuck in th Ditch like that? I did more than a few Suez crossings in my Navy days and didn't once ever hear of that happening.
Same.
Columbus had a cabin boy, He loved him like a brother. Every night by candle light They buggered one another The Cabin boy was a nasty little nipper Stuck broken glass up his arse And circumcised da’ Skipper!
Wow is this required reading in the 1619 project now?
That would be silly for more than just the fact that Kangz can't read.
It's also silly because English is white supremacy.
On that note, 54 countries in the world have appropriated the French culture by using their language. Should they be canceled?
Close. Here's the actual song from Loudon Wainwright III Good Ship Venus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLotX3HE-4c
Hahaha, been awhile since I heard that.
"Pass me another Boy Seaman, this ones burst"
"Sorry Sir, there is only one left and all the crew have used him"
"Well, empty him out and bring him to me!"
(An old joke that was old long before Icarus flew into the perimeter track)
The {fag} suffix is generally only applied to professionals, or experts in their respective fields of faggotry. Carry on sir.
From a British word for cigarette to an insult to an honorary title, what a journey.
A faggot is defined as a bundle of sticks. The British slang for cigarette follows. As does the pejorative for gay guy - a bundle of sticks haha.
The first time I encountered the word faggot associated with sticks was when reading "The Island of Dr. Moreau" in grade school. I got the book off my grandfathers bookshelf when he died in 1972.
Its also British meat loaf, made by Brain's of Towchester. Brain's Faggots 12 pack.
This is correct.
It’s been normal to me for so long I hadn’t considered that others might see it as an insult or a term of mediocrity.
If you have the suffix “-fag,” people, then you are of the highest echelons in the relevant area of expertise.
just Hijacking this thread to say ...THIS IS THE WAY....#ALLFAGSMATTER we need true fags to help discern...carry on..
MAGA4EVA
I'm here. I'm with you guys, but sometimes it gets a bit ridiculous. Usually when I question it I get called a shill. IMHO, we'll all so better with good information. Questioning this is good.
And I might know something useful for once!
All the more so! With the notable exceptions of newfag and datefag, the designator "-fag" is used as a complimentary or honorific marker of extreme devotion. Shipfag, planefag, wordfag, etc., just mean you're super focused on those things.
I see... I could never tell if it was an expert or expert hobbiest. Kinda both!
Yeaaaaaah... I'm going to stick with "geek"...
Geekfag.
Not a chance in hell. Check the thread, I'll talkabout it more if necessary!
Yeah, maybe. I'm not buying that because ships move through the suez in convoys of... It's been a while... Iirc around 20. Everyone else was ok?
This is very plausible. The suez is small compared to that monster ship. Any brief steering problem, mechanical or human, could cause contact with the bankand after that... Shtf.
How long would it really take to get a ship like that unstuck?
How often does a giant ship like that get caught up in a canal?
What was your first thought when you saw this on the news?
Thanks, fren.
Hard to say. What I can tell you is that one reason to have a Panamanian flag is to dodge training requirements (it's complicated and indirect, but rest assured they have a nearly useless crew) and everyone I ever met working in the canal was useless. Those tugs you see on scene already probably barely work, junkers with minimal maintenance. Somewhere else in the world and I bet it would be done by now.
The suez is a special one. That much traffic, that narrow. In lesser 'canals' it happens from time to time... I got to see the immediate aftermath of a ship getting stuck in the mud in northern Europe in a cut. They had it out in a day and told cheerful stories about it for months. For the sake of discussion, let's say this is a genuine accident, well... They'll call me a shill. It could happen. Rare on this scale but not for any good reason other than dumb luck. I've seen some shit that makes me wonder why it doesn't happen more often!
Laughed my ass off! Until I started to think about what it meant. Then I made some popcorn!
Something tells me we want it stuck for a bit.
I'm torn on that one. There's a lot of incompetence on ships with flags of convince and the local "people" in the suez... But this is getting ridiculous.
What is the draft at the bow? When I looked at the ships stats it cites its draft as approximately 15 meters. Does that keel depth run the entire length of the ship?
Did it look to you like that had one of those big bulbs at the prow?
If the keel is 45 feet at the bow that would give us a huge hint at what is dug into the bank. And if its got a bulb then that is gonna be a mutha to float. They will need big floating dredges in there. An excavator on shore wont cut it.
Def got the bulb
It's called a bulbous bow. The idea is that the bulb rides just under the surface of the water and breaks the water tension to give a more fuel efficient cruise.
The keel is basically flat, but the trim is the difference between the for and aft draft. Usually they are very close. You've walked into something complicated... Let's just leave it as on a ship like that in conditions like that the draft at the bow and stern should be within a couple feet.
Especially seeing the different cargo containers clearly spelling out "LOL". I almost sprayed my coffee, went up the nose instead. Ouch!
That was fake
I used to work for a cargo shipping company, we had a ship run aground in Saudi Arabia. The ship was maybe 1/2 the size of this one, this ship is so huge. It took over a week to get it loose, as I recall.
Yeah... People keep asking how long. There are so many factors and I'm not there... Hard to say.
Why is it called a " poop deck"?
Back in the old days, guys would transfer onto ships by swinging on a rope to the elevated aft deck, aka the poop deck. The process was dangerous and understandably terrifying. To save on the effort of skiing laundry, they would swing over without pants so that when they shit themselves in fear...
I don't know.
Comment for bookmark. u/#popcorn
Best. Gif. Ever.
Yes, 30mph wind is plenty to be a problem. It gets a little complicated after that. If they lost steering or propulsion they'd be screwed. Otherwise they would have to angle into the wind to maintain a course down the channel... The ship would appear to movea little bit sideways over the ground (we called it crabbing). If the wind is high enough, there's a problem. Get pushed into the bank or turn and make the effective width of the ship so large you touch the banks.
The resistance from water changes with speed. Even a 200k ton ship floating in a placid lake will be pushed around by a gentle breeze.
Sorry, all that aside, I've been on the helm steering ships 3/4 that size. I felt the wind. A lot.
I've been around the cape. It's nasty as fuck. Yes, very dangerous. The only thing I can say is that a well maintained modern large steel ship can do it. Personally I'd rather not do it again!
The 'helm room' is called the bridge. Or the wheelhouse. The number of people depends on what's going on... On a US flag vessel in open ocean it's 2. In the suez, there's at least a canal pilot (local captain that takes you through) a ships officer and a helmsman (an able seaman). The ship's captain should and probably does spend a lot of time during the suez transiton the bridge, but this takes a day our two. People gotta sleep.
Dick butt was deliberate. No question in my mind. They were not at anchor. Have you seen the time lapse? Ships don't sail over each others anchors (mostly). And they covered way too much area. How long is the chain? No. Many times we would 'slow bell' or 'putter around slowly' in circles rather than drop anchor because of reasons. I've Personally been involved in writing initials, drawing Smiley faces and all kinds of stupid shit to kill time.
The helm position I covered on a light cruiser I served on, as an unskilled seamen would have trouble compensating for moderate seas from port or starboard-"mind your helm" is a call I dreaded... :)
The anchor info is top-notch and for real. When we transited we only were stopped one time waiting for traffic to clear and that canal is a busy place.
I think this is it from yesterday but I had to download the video and play it back in VLC.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3EwyV8_460svav1.mp4
From VesselFinder on Youtube:
Controversial track of the container ship Ever Given that blocked Suez Canal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5IKbYcLgQA
Container ship Ever Given blocked Suez Canal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXTrcQ5wm8
Question. There seem to be 2 competing theories floating around about how this happened. The first is that a power outage was engineered in order to cause loss of control. Speculate. Under normal circumstances with an alert crew, could a loss of power under specific conditions be guaranteed to cause an accident like we saw? Would only average winds be enough to cause the problem? Is this something that requires a very specific set of environmental circumstances, or would almost any power outage from a ship this size in the Suez result in the events we saw?
The second theory is that it was deliberate action by the crew. The dick-pic seems to confirm that if this was the case, then at least one person on the crew was likely involved. Whether or not the canal pilot was a part of the conspiracy is unknown. It seems possible that a determined crewman could have chosen a time when the canal pilot was indisposed to execute his maneuver. Again, speculate. What is the minimum complement of crew that would need to be incentivized in order to guarantee success of a mission such as the above? And it is realistic to assume this was done without the assistance of the canal pilot?
Assume now you are an intelligence organization that wants to make this happen, and you know you have only one shot with this specific vessel. Which of the above 2 scenarios is more likely to yield success and would be easier to effect? Your most important consideration is that you do not want this mission to fail.
Assuming we ignore the possibility that this was really all just an accident and random chance, is there a 3rd mechanism we have failed to consider here?
What do you think about sabotage of the steering system?
It would be easy and effective. And easy to make it look like poor maintenance. Could be. But without more information, I'd just be guessing.
30 mph winds will blow sand over there. And there are wind precautions that ships take in the canal.
No questions. Thank you for this post. Informative and enjoyable.
I'm enjoying it too. Wondering if this might be good redpill thread for my engineering sil.
Just ask him “what do you think about that ship in the Suez?” Engineers love to theorize about stuff (I’m surrounded by them in my fam)— it’s a way to open his mind about what is possible, what is plausible. I think the more you just ask him probing questions the less he will just dismiss things and start to open his mind.
Agreed
I am retired from the Merchant Marine after 40 years in the industry and over 20 years seatime. I finished off the later part of my career as the ships electrician. I haven’t looked into the Evergreen situation, nor have I spent much time at all on this board or any other message board dedicated words Q, since voat went down. That being said, I left that life of going to sea far behind me. Although the entire affair is quite peculiar, given that she ran aground (or at least that is what I gather without doing any digging), I am not the least bit surprised. The last time I seen anything like this was in 1978, when an Algerian tanker broadsided the Yellowstone in the Gibraltar straits. I was on the sister ship named the Mohawk, and I remember traffic being block up for miles. Never have I seen so many ships in one place. Anyway, I know this is totally unrelated, but I just thought I would say hello to a fellow Mariner, and Patriot.
What are the economical repercussions of this if you had to guess? How much fuel are these thousands of ships using to troll around?
I for one think this is going to propel us into a financial collapse. Not because of the cargo being delayed but because of the fuel being vaporized.
Also, if this was a plan to block the canal, what other reasons would there be? I see the Russian military at the north and the us military at the south. Are they trapping someone there?
Your comment deserves Ttention because this is the real topic to be discussed. What are the implications to the economy. Its a real disaster for Europe.
Thanks for noticing. I don’t know what to do to prepare, I am guessing what we have been doing plus precious metals. I think cash is going down in value and fuel is going up
Welcome shipfag! We seem to need you more then ever now.
Glad to be here!
Welcome shipfag, (careful spelling that) if the Ever Given did suffer a complete power loss, and from some of the info I've seen, some are reporting high winds of about 40kts, would this be enough to turn it sideways in the Suez. Is the Suez canal tidal? Couldn't the Captain have dropped anchor fore and aft (get me with all the ship chatter) and hence stopped the ship from running aground until he had power restored? Thanks, have a good sleep.
I'm not familiar with the anchor situation on the ever given, but based on the vessels I've worked on I doubt it has a stern anchor.
Either way, it wouldn't help much. Most of making an anchor work is laying a bunch off chain on the sea floor.
Ships sail through thesuez in convoys. What happened to the vessels behind?
Part of the transit is mooring against the sand... I'm figuring this out with everyone here. Right now I'm thinking they hit under power...
I'm giving you an updoot for the line "get me with the ship chatter".
Thanks shippers ( a term of endearment in the navy, meaning friend, although I wasn't Navy I was Army)
BZ .
Does maritime shipping require a pilot to come aboard this vessels prior to entering the canal?
Yes. And the pilots are useless there. They basically come aboard to absorb food, smokes and booze. Oh, and randomly stop doing their job to pray to Allah.
How convenient.
Yes
Do you happen to know anything about the the systems used to pilot such large vessels. How much of the course is pre-set? what the collision avoidance systems and alarms are and does anything needed to be overridden to assume a collision course like that?
To what extent are the ships fly-by-wire? Who makes the navigation controls in general, are the ships ever piloted remotely, can they be.
Why did the ship seem to be going so fast?
Any observations of a similar nature around technology of piloting a ship you could give us that which indicate to you that this was not an ordinary occurrence.
Yes, I was trained and used knowledge of navigation and piloting such vessels. Did it for years.
Course pre set inn the suez? None. Zero. Don't hit the dirt. Some greasy Egyptian asshole comes on your bridge and pretends to tell you how to navigate the canal.
Fly by wire, sure. We don't crank the rudder around by hand! Electronic control of hydraulics.
I'm sorry, I'll tired and it's late. If you're thinking someone took over theship remotely... Not a chance I any ship I've everworked on. Maybe They're more advanced than US flagged vessels?
Who knows... I'll think about it some more when I'm awake!
That sounds about right. We used to carry cases of booze and pallets of cigarette to bribe our way through.
Yes we had to bring in a canal pilot and my skipper over ruled his orders all the time. When I went through I was relatively new to the navy and my position was a bridge talker. Wrote backwards with a grease pencil on a board.
Thank you very much.
Very useful input.
What about someone “shutting down power” from a distance. Like an EMP. Could that knock out the control on a ship like this? Maybe leaving the engine running?
Well... I'd imagine an emp would be difficult to impossible to target that specifically. It would take out all kinds off ship electronics and probably not be great for anything else in the vicinity!
Yes. But what if such technology did exist?
It would be very cool.
I mean what would happen to the ship? Would you still be able to steer it if all electronic systems went down?
Oh.
No. Even on ships a lot smaller than that you couldn't move the rudder fast enough without hydraulics.
How many ships are big enough to block the canal like that?
How many evergreen company ships travel the suez daily? Or how many ships in their company fleet travel that way?
Most of the ships transiting the suez are big enough to block it. But if you really want to jam it up, bigger is better!
They're a petty big company. I imagine they have ships going through thecanal regularly. I'd have to search around for exact details, but on that I don't have any special insight.
Rode ship's for 20 years. Some of the largest in the world. Been through the canal on an Aircraft carrier. So many things hit my mind but mostly just enjoying the show.
Bah! You navy guys! Worked with a lot of ex-navy... It's a different mindset than the merchant side.
You guys are alright though. : )
20 years and you can't spell "ships"?
<gdar>
Thanks for the insight and CONGRATULATIONS on the growing family.
Your welcome and thank you!
We have the foggiest pieces of Ship, believe me!
what's this about losing containers and having them go over board and "float" around. If they had stuff in them wouldn't they sink???? and how often does this happen? how much stuff is floating around out there?
If the stuff in them holds a lot of air, it could stay afloat. Also, I think that some containers are sealed and airtight. Containers fall off ships every day. There are hundreds of them in the sea right now.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=containers+overboard
It never happened to me, but we were US sailors and good at our jobs!
Containers aren't really water tight, I'd expect them to eventually sink.
Great information !???
Can ships be hacked remotely as this article suggests?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1247796/china-news-royal-navy-huawei-cold-war-world-war-3-donald-trump
No. I didn't read the article, but no. We were lucky to keep things running with a lot of human intervention!
But the ever given is a much newer ship than I'm used to. I still doubt it... Kind of like asking if someone can remote control your car...
I recall a Q post, which suggested that modern cars, ships and planes could be controlled remotely via their onboard computers. The implication was that the computer hardware contained a "back door" entry point.
You'd still need some kind of mechanical actuator to country control the cars or what have you. People would notice the weird extra hardware.
Preventing the car from running that way would be possible...
Hi shipfags! Thanks for doing this thread!
My question is in regards to the containers.
Let's say that there was precious cargo in a time-sensitive situation. It is my understanding that the cointainers are stacked pretty tightly. What are the chances of any inspections/rescues being done on a fully loaded cargo ship?
It seems to me that a whole bunch of humans might be trapped on these ships and dying slowly and horrifically.
Could be. Those containers are packed tight and lashed down, it would be difficult to open most of them underway.
Thank you. That's what I thought. I pray that there are no victims on those ships.
Little humans.
It seems that the insurance company would be pretty pissed off at the idea of a giant ship under their watch taking unnecessary risks to do a lawn job at the high school with that many other ships relatively close by.
Does this imply that the captain and crew are not likely to have done that on their own. Way risky.
Some outside influence perhaps? Or force?
Have we seen any other similar instances?
Thanks for sharing your time and experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLotX3HE-4c
Obviously whoever did this is playing games, considering the names, but are they the good guys? Haven't we been primed to be concerned about supply lines and possible upcoming food shortages? Who would want these or an excuse to impose them? This might be a good time to think about getting your beans and rice if you haven't already, folks.
Yes! Here's one:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/
All ships are boats
Not all boats are ships
A submariner then.