It is so heartbreaking. When Jesus trips carrying the cross and Mother Mary rushes to help him and he just struggles back up looking into her eyes “Behold I make all things new” as Mary flashes back to Jesus as a little child falling on the step and she kisses his boo-boo knee. It’s heart wrenching to watch as a mother.
Please consider watching The Chosen. It’s amazing and free to watch through the Chosen app. It’s changed my life and I was already a believer before seeing it.
What is wrong with you? Anyone seeing this movie would feel the brutality of the crucifixion. Jesus suffered and died and rose again for all of the sinners of the world.
I would suggest you watch the movie without that chip on your shoulder.
Most people will say they think they're a good person, but this movie is God treating Jesus as if He was any of us. The scariest thing in the world for sinners is that God is good and just.
The Bible says there is none who seeks after Him and none who does good, yet God subjected his own Son to this for us, knowing that almost everyone would reject the free gift. It's a love we can't empathize with, a love that exceeds our capacity. I can't imagine even an eternity will be enough to fully comprehend it.
I know this sounds... Weird, but I truly think Passion is going to be a rare Date Night movie soon for me and the Missus. Both never seen it, both probably perfectly aligned for a viewing.
This is false and implies God and Christ are two different people. God is Christ and Christ is God, God can not treat Himself different. God did humble Himself in taking on our humanity. This was sin and God conquered death, it was simply humans doing human things because their humanity was tainted by sin.
Yes, they're the same in the sense that we have three parts: soul, body, and spirit. God does too: Soul(Father), body(Jesus), and spirit(Holy Spirit).
What we suffer in our lives is the wrath of man and the wrath of Satan, permitted by God. What Jesus suffered on the cross was the wrath of God through the hands of men. Therefore, Jesus takes all of God's wrath, paying the whole price. If we suffered any it'd be an incomplete gift/justification.
God isn't treating himself inconsistently, as His wrath is because of us, not Jesus. Jesus chooses to take the cup of wrath in the garden as our last Adam, a kinsman redeemer as in Ruth. It is God's righteousness given to us through Jesus Christ.
This premise shouldn't be awkward, as God's Words are given to us through the words and writings of men via the Holy Spirit, so His wrath can come through men as well and be paid by His body via Jesus Christ. Also, Jesus and the Father did interact as separate entities while still both being God. Jesus prayed, did His Father's will, resisted temptation using scripture, etc.
No! This theology is wrong! Christ didn't suffer the "wrath" of God. Also the Trinity isn't "body soul spirit" it is just the Trinity we can not grasp the understanding of the Trinity it just is. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
This theology is very Roman Catholic, so I am going to assume you are Roman Catholic, it is teaching the satisfaction theory of atonement. When in reality this isn't what happened. Christ lived a perfect life as a man and as such He was the only one who could overcome Death (death was the punishment given to us in the Garden) Christ did what we couldn't, there is no "pouring out of wrath" by the Father.
Also, I have never heard of this ridiculous notion of the "wrath of man and wrath of Satan" no we suffer a fallen nature because of what happened in the Garden when Eve and Adam sinned. While we are a fallen nature we have the free will to choose not to sin, we always have a choice to avoid temptations. And there is no wrath of Satan anything Satan does is allowed by God.
This is more theological than just straight reading the Bible, and for the most part we all did interpret it the same way, until we had a disagreement on the nature of Christ which led to the Eastern Orthodox leaving the Church, from there the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic had another disagreement (one I don't know to well) which was also theological in nature and they seperated from each other, from there you have the Roman Catholic and what was to be the Protestant churches and from the Protestant they have divisions among themselves.
The thing is, this isn't my take on it, this is from the Apostles and the Church Father's, defenders of the faith. My faith comes from St. Mark the Evangelist who established our Church in Egypt, he is the one who taught us and he is the one who showed us the Gospel.
I am not Roman Catholic. What are Christians "saved" from? We're saved from the power of sin now, the penalty of sin at judgment, and the presence of sin in eternity.
We're saved from Hell. God's judgment. God's wrath. Jesus suffering from our wrath accomplishes nothing - our wrath is corrupt and full of sin and doesn't necessitate fulfilling. God's wrath is pure and righteous, however, and it must be paid for God to be just. Thankfully, He is merciful and provided One who could pay an eternal sin debt in an afternoon so we don't have to spend an eternity burning trying to satisfy God's wrath towards us.
I disagree with you on most of these other topics as well, but the gospel message is really all that's worth debating at this point. I think we've both presented our beliefs and I'll leave it at that.
Jesus is the word made flesh, the word that made everything comes from God. Jesus is the son and the word, the word and the son that God made.
I cannot get my head around what God did for us, his children. The love he has for us is beyond comprehension, to give up his son who is the word to give us eternal life? It passeth all understanding.
God did not "make" the Son, the Son and the Father are both God the Son and the Father have both existed always and will always exist They have no beginning and no end They just are. "I am that I am"
The "Angel of the Lord" was the "voice" of God in a sense, it was the Word and the Word was made flesh. Christ was not created, Christ has no beginning and no end He is the I Am.
It is like how we call St. Mary the Mother of God, does this title mean God has a mother? No, it is an honorary title given to her as well as she was the mother of God (Christ).
From the Heavenly Father, his first born Son, Jehovah>Jesus Christ. The God that inspired the Prophets fulfilled their prophecies at Gethsemane and Golgotha and indeed did make ALL things new.
That is a movie that everyone should watch. Brutally honest. The single most difficult movie I have ever watched, and I don't need to see it again. But EVERYONE should see it once. A timeless classic. Makes you appreciate just what God has given you. And everyone involved deserves to still have a movie career after the awakening.
Even worse. Imagine defending Jesus and getting killed on the spot while some Roman dog spits on him, lives a long life, then right before dying of old age has a punt in the confession box and walks thought the gates of heaven anyway.
The heart of the Gospel is mercy and forgiveness friend. But, one must be sincerely repentant. I would not wish hell on the most wretched such as those people that did this to Christ. He forgave them from the cross!
You mentioned Hell like you believe it's good and justified and necessary. I disagree and take issue with the morality of people that worship a deity that they believe tortures people for eternity and then claim to have the moral high ground.
Pragmatically speaking, you feel safe in your afterlife to assume you wouldn't be there too?
How about if one of your kids tricked a third of your kids and grandkids and let them astray and killed them. Would you just ignore that? And that's not even close to being a fair comparison. Imagine you made a bunch of of sentient robots to help you build your business.. and one rebelled against you, reprogrammed a third of your robots and they all started killing and destroying everything, your family, your friends, your house, your business, they came after everything. You'd just roll over if you held the off switch? No man, you'd melt that one down into slag with a flamethrower.
exactly. Matthew 7:21-23. God must come to know you during your time on the physical realm. you do this by accepting Jesus and living in His image. When you get to the gates and think you can repent and then enter, I'm sorry but you will have a rude awakening. God is equal parts love and equal parts judgement/justice.
I honestly have no problem with that. I too am a sinner. I can literally forgive anyone because God has forgiven much in me. “Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.”
Luke 7:47
You are misunderstanding what that verse is saying. Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small. Trying to say you can do a lot of good stuff and earn your way into Heaven is a slap in the face to Jesus’ perfect finished work on the cross. Christ did it all, the only thing we have to do is accept him and we are saved. I’m sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s really just your ego telling you that you can do righteous works and earn your salvation. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9
That isn't what I'm saying at all - nor is it what James is saying. I do not believe in a works based faith. "Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small." This sentence is closer to what I, and James, is saying.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus is proof that faith (justified belief) is all that's required to enter Paradise. If you don't die right after your true confession, then you will by nature (new nature) do good works.
So you're saying, a total unbelieving asshole will not go to heaven if he dies after just receiving Jesus Christ as his lord and savior at an alter call?
See? You're wrong. Belief is all that's required. Behavior isn't a contingency.
This is a fair question, and I hope it shows you the complex nature of God that goes beyond our comprehension. Belief alone, will not get you into heaven. It is the first step and without it you won't get in, even if you live a mostly good life (no one can live a perfect life). God must also come to know you during your time on earth by imaging Christ. Grace made it possible though, because we cleanse ourself in the blood of Christ that allows us to enter the Kingdom without being destroyed. This is made evident throughout the Bible. You must do good works AND accept Christ by loving Him will all your heart, mind, and strength. So if you live a sinful life and reject God until the very last minute, do you get into heaven? Only God can answer that, he can see your true nature, but I would argue no (at first). But this doesn't mean you are doomed either. Hell is another concept many Christians don't seem to fully understand. Hell is the holding cell before your final trial. There is pain and suffering in hell, much like we see in today's world, but that isn't the end judgement. The final judgement comes on the day of the Lord, and if you still have a hardened heart, you get tossed into the lake of fire (which is what the common belief of hell is now). Hope this helps explain somethings!
"I just watched ‘The Passion of The Christ‘ for the first time. My thinking is that we all still got it pretty easy, compared to what this man went through, for our sins."
...and now he's going to come back and judge the world. Let that sink in.
He also was struck by the cat-o-nine tails during the whipping scene when the whip missed his protective bodysuit a few times. He’s a good actor and took his role seriously .
There's probably still some documentary-type videos on YT that are about the filming of this movie. So many miracles occurred. It's incredible to think about what the spirit world would have looked like on that set IF you could see it all. WAR. It was total war.
The account is NOT scriptural. Christ was no doubt abused but no where near this portrayal. If he was near death when crucified then his quick death would not have been a surprise to Pontius Pilate. The movie is from a Marian perspective and puts tremendous emphasis on suffering. Deluge of downvotes in 3….2….1
It says in scripture he wasn't just whipped but flogged 39 times. That would turn any body into a bloody pulp. So why was Pontius surprised? Well, scourging was a common practice before crucifixion for certain crimes and most people still spent usually a day on the cross. What is also surprising is that Jesus' "crime" was deemed worthy of scourging. So when Jesus died in a fraction of the time, it would be surprising.
It wasn't "deemed worthy" Pilate scoured Him and then presented Him back to the Jews hoping that would satisfy them and they would let Him go. But that didn't work so the Jews continued to demand His crucifixion.
you're right. i meant from the perspective of those that wanted him dead. Pilate didn't want him dead. Which is interesting, because Pilate actually made the suffering much worse, even if that wasn't his intention.
100% The crucifixion was close to a scripture account, and he was flogged more than shown in the movie. But there is a lot of other theological errors in the movie, and as a typical Roman Catholic movie goes it emphasized all on suffering, they have a weird hard on for that stuff, while the rest of us emphasize on His resurrection. The movie was nothing more than soft core porn for gore. I wish I knew the name of it, and unfortunately it's in Arabic but there is a very very old Egyptian movie about Christ that is extremely good.
to be fair, the movie is called the passion. not the passion and resurrection. I do think Christians need to do a better job understanding the suffering part of it all. The resurrection is to instill hope. Why I think it is super important to understand the suffering is that Jesus never promised we wouldn't suffering on the earth. He didn't suffer to prevent us from suffering in this time and space. A lot of his teaching is to warn us and prepare us for the coming persecution. We need to mentally prepare for the suffering so that it isnt a total shock. This will give us endurance and hope when we face the evil in front of us. The church will carry out the passion in the days to come, and by the church, I mean the members of Christ.
They added their own flair into it, one being Satan in the garden (which he wasn't) not to mention making Satan a woman thing, another was their take on Judas, which isn't biblical with him hiding under a bridge? as well as Christ "inventing" a table with chairs. In these parts they could have done so much more that was actually Biblical instead of adding their own weird theology to the movie.
oh yeah, i can agree with you there. i was just commenting on why it focused on the suffering rather than the resurrection. i might have missed your point, sorry about that. but i think the point of the movie was to emphasize the suffering to really hit your heart. But at the end of the day, it's still Hollywood. I think Hollywood shows a lot of violence, but not the accurate correlation of suffering that goes along with it. It desensitizes in a way. i know the movie moved a lot of people spiritually seeing the brutality, letting them see what He actually went through for us. and if it brings more people to Christ, then the movie did its job (or anyone's job, which is to serve and witness to Christ)
Keeping the faith and trusting in the lord. I've been blackballed and treated like a leper by my friends, family, and coworkers. The lord hasn't turned his back on me and you're right this is just a trial and all part of gods plan.
I remember reading that the scourging He endured normally would have killed any typical man after about half of what He went through. He fought to live so He could complete His task. For us.
Yes I heard this too. The whip is actually nine portions of leather laced with sharpened human bone and stones. Being whipped with this will year flesh from bone. The Romans wasted no time.
it was the ultimate lesson. to fully accept Jesus means to let go of all earthly desires, even life itself. i'm not saying go out and seek martyrdom, it is a horrendous thing and should not be romanticized. but all Christians will be persecuted during the great tribulation. the church will be the live demonstration of the gospel/passion. Christians NEED to understand this lessen before the time comes.
I think all that stuff about love this and love that is made up imo. The fags used it to justify their faggotry like a perfect chess move against us. Shit like "hate the sin not the sinner". Look where that type of thinking got us. You can't show a faggot or that entire "community" any love at all. They took tolerance and turned it into an attempt to normalize pedophilia along with all the other shit they do.
There's a reason why the religious world has always kept faggots and faggotry down violently, we now live what happens when you give them an inch.
it's because satan infiltrated the word love. love is a key concept in the bible, but the term how it is used today is not the same meaning. love must be balanced by God's law. you need both to get to the Father. Rebuke the sinner, but don't hate them. let them hate you just as they hated Jesus first. show them the truth and let God handle the judgement. Hating the person only brings you down with them.
This is interesting to note: Mel Gibson, Catholic, used Scripture and the Church-approved visions of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. When you saw scenes and thought maybe Mel took Hollywood liberty with the storyline, nope. He was faithful to Scripture and her visions. Her visions are so accurate that they have been used as a map to unearth buried streets in the holy land! And she also prophesied the SHEER EVIL that would inhabit the VATICAN: a satanic Marxist church eclipsing the actual Catholic Church, a Church so foul that Satan created it. Deo vindice.
Amen. Christ suffered immense physical torture. But His greatest suffering was taking the full wrath of God the Father for the sins of His beloved children, past, present and future. Those who repent and put their faith in Christ will never suffer Gods wrath, but are fully redeemed
One very big mistake most people make is they try to mix the Kingdom Gospel preached by John, Jesus and the 12 to Israel with the Gospel of Grace given to Paul, which is our gospel during this dispensation. Understand the difference, Christ earthy ministry was to Israel under the law and it was all a fulfilment of prophecy. What we have today is the body of Christ, a new creature which was a mystery revealed to Paul, unknown to anyone before it was revealed to Paul. A different gospel. Prophecy vs Mystery.
You won't find this taught in Church but it's very important to understand the difference.
We are missing the biggest sacrifice. It wasn't the torture beating and hanging on the cross but it was coming here with full knowledge/choice and not partaking in the temptations of this world. There is something tempting about this place that even angels have fallen victim to its alure. He said nah he will not have a palace even though he could, nah he won't have a all the wine and women, nah he'll live amongst the woods in the streets and who ever will shelter him, like a vagrant knowing he has such a short time here. Mid 30s thats all, a young man never getting to feel the breakdown of old age, Grey hair, and watching your grandchildren play in your front yard and remembering raising hell your your buddies at the saloon. He didn't have a life like ours and never will at all he gave it all. His whole run.
Also: He who has no shadow or darkness in Him had to BECOME sin and pay that price. And He knew just how dark the sins were that He was taking on Himself. He knew how many sins.
I've been awed that the wages of sin is death, but He had no sin in Him....if He had not released His spirit I do not think it could have ended. How amazing that He knew the exact moment it was done. And more amazing that He did this for us.
🙏
Heck, I've never seen it (yet) and sometimes I get weepy thinking about Christ's sacrifice.
Probably why God gave us such capacity for empathy, really.
I will go "rent" it now.
Thanks for your kind words and Spirit. God Bless you as well!
"Rent" 🤣
It is so heartbreaking. When Jesus trips carrying the cross and Mother Mary rushes to help him and he just struggles back up looking into her eyes “Behold I make all things new” as Mary flashes back to Jesus as a little child falling on the step and she kisses his boo-boo knee. It’s heart wrenching to watch as a mother.
Please consider watching The Chosen. It’s amazing and free to watch through the Chosen app. It’s changed my life and I was already a believer before seeing it.
Lighten up it's only fiction.
What is wrong with you? Anyone seeing this movie would feel the brutality of the crucifixion. Jesus suffered and died and rose again for all of the sinners of the world. I would suggest you watch the movie without that chip on your shoulder.
Yes but they are actors in a fictional movie...
You have to admit it's a very realistic portrayal of the Crucifixion of Jesus. The subject is not fictional.
If you say so. None of us were alive when that event was supposed to have taken place so we are relying on 2000 years of hearsay at best.
2000*
Most people will say they think they're a good person, but this movie is God treating Jesus as if He was any of us. The scariest thing in the world for sinners is that God is good and just.
The Bible says there is none who seeks after Him and none who does good, yet God subjected his own Son to this for us, knowing that almost everyone would reject the free gift. It's a love we can't empathize with, a love that exceeds our capacity. I can't imagine even an eternity will be enough to fully comprehend it.
Very Graceful words, pede. Thanks.
I know this sounds... Weird, but I truly think Passion is going to be a rare Date Night movie soon for me and the Missus. Both never seen it, both probably perfectly aligned for a viewing.
I watched it with mine. it will bring you closer together through Christ.
Not weird at all. It humbles the heart, and humble hearts are a good thing in relationships. I hope it's a blessing for both of you.
This is false and implies God and Christ are two different people. God is Christ and Christ is God, God can not treat Himself different. God did humble Himself in taking on our humanity. This was sin and God conquered death, it was simply humans doing human things because their humanity was tainted by sin.
Yes, they're the same in the sense that we have three parts: soul, body, and spirit. God does too: Soul(Father), body(Jesus), and spirit(Holy Spirit).
What we suffer in our lives is the wrath of man and the wrath of Satan, permitted by God. What Jesus suffered on the cross was the wrath of God through the hands of men. Therefore, Jesus takes all of God's wrath, paying the whole price. If we suffered any it'd be an incomplete gift/justification.
God isn't treating himself inconsistently, as His wrath is because of us, not Jesus. Jesus chooses to take the cup of wrath in the garden as our last Adam, a kinsman redeemer as in Ruth. It is God's righteousness given to us through Jesus Christ.
This premise shouldn't be awkward, as God's Words are given to us through the words and writings of men via the Holy Spirit, so His wrath can come through men as well and be paid by His body via Jesus Christ. Also, Jesus and the Father did interact as separate entities while still both being God. Jesus prayed, did His Father's will, resisted temptation using scripture, etc.
No! This theology is wrong! Christ didn't suffer the "wrath" of God. Also the Trinity isn't "body soul spirit" it is just the Trinity we can not grasp the understanding of the Trinity it just is. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
This theology is very Roman Catholic, so I am going to assume you are Roman Catholic, it is teaching the satisfaction theory of atonement. When in reality this isn't what happened. Christ lived a perfect life as a man and as such He was the only one who could overcome Death (death was the punishment given to us in the Garden) Christ did what we couldn't, there is no "pouring out of wrath" by the Father.
Also, I have never heard of this ridiculous notion of the "wrath of man and wrath of Satan" no we suffer a fallen nature because of what happened in the Garden when Eve and Adam sinned. While we are a fallen nature we have the free will to choose not to sin, we always have a choice to avoid temptations. And there is no wrath of Satan anything Satan does is allowed by God.
Weird, you'd think by now everyone would interpret the Bible the exact same way ;)
This is more theological than just straight reading the Bible, and for the most part we all did interpret it the same way, until we had a disagreement on the nature of Christ which led to the Eastern Orthodox leaving the Church, from there the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic had another disagreement (one I don't know to well) which was also theological in nature and they seperated from each other, from there you have the Roman Catholic and what was to be the Protestant churches and from the Protestant they have divisions among themselves.
Knowing this, you might want to avoid absolute statements when discussing your particular take on scripture or theology with other Christians.
"No! This theology is wrong!" probably isn't the right way to kick off those discussions if you're actually looking to make some headway with people.
I'm sure you know this and just forgot. I do so all the time :)
The thing is, this isn't my take on it, this is from the Apostles and the Church Father's, defenders of the faith. My faith comes from St. Mark the Evangelist who established our Church in Egypt, he is the one who taught us and he is the one who showed us the Gospel.
I am not Roman Catholic. What are Christians "saved" from? We're saved from the power of sin now, the penalty of sin at judgment, and the presence of sin in eternity.
We're saved from Hell. God's judgment. God's wrath. Jesus suffering from our wrath accomplishes nothing - our wrath is corrupt and full of sin and doesn't necessitate fulfilling. God's wrath is pure and righteous, however, and it must be paid for God to be just. Thankfully, He is merciful and provided One who could pay an eternal sin debt in an afternoon so we don't have to spend an eternity burning trying to satisfy God's wrath towards us.
I disagree with you on most of these other topics as well, but the gospel message is really all that's worth debating at this point. I think we've both presented our beliefs and I'll leave it at that.
I read a really great book recently.
Michael Reeves Delighting in the Trinity: An Introduction to the Christian Faith
Short, lively, and very enjoyable that will teach you things about the Trinity you never knew were so wonderful! I highly recommend.
Jesus is the word made flesh, the word that made everything comes from God. Jesus is the son and the word, the word and the son that God made.
I cannot get my head around what God did for us, his children. The love he has for us is beyond comprehension, to give up his son who is the word to give us eternal life? It passeth all understanding.
God did not "make" the Son, the Son and the Father are both God the Son and the Father have both existed always and will always exist They have no beginning and no end They just are. "I am that I am"
And the word?
I don't understand your question, the "word" is Christ whenever you see in the Old Testament the Angel of the Lord that is Christ.
In the beginning was the word, Jesus is the word made flesh. Is he an angel or more than that?
He is the word so is much more than an angel.
The "Angel of the Lord" was the "voice" of God in a sense, it was the Word and the Word was made flesh. Christ was not created, Christ has no beginning and no end He is the I Am.
It is like how we call St. Mary the Mother of God, does this title mean God has a mother? No, it is an honorary title given to her as well as she was the mother of God (Christ).
From the Heavenly Father, his first born Son, Jehovah>Jesus Christ. The God that inspired the Prophets fulfilled their prophecies at Gethsemane and Golgotha and indeed did make ALL things new.
That is a movie that everyone should watch. Brutally honest. The single most difficult movie I have ever watched, and I don't need to see it again. But EVERYONE should see it once. A timeless classic. Makes you appreciate just what God has given you. And everyone involved deserves to still have a movie career after the awakening.
While bystanders watched
And spit on him. Imagine spitting in God’s face, then a few years later facing him in judgment.
I just remember as a little girl learning the Bible stories and wondering how people could ever be so cruel
Some types really don't like being told they can't rape, murder and extort. Imagine that...
Who could ever think of that kind of cruelty towards another person?
I know, I can’t even watch it as an adult it hurts my heart so much to watch suffering
Even worse. Imagine defending Jesus and getting killed on the spot while some Roman dog spits on him, lives a long life, then right before dying of old age has a punt in the confession box and walks thought the gates of heaven anyway.
One does not merely "punt into the confession box", homie.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, etc.
You can never fool God.
The heart of the Gospel is mercy and forgiveness friend. But, one must be sincerely repentant. I would not wish hell on the most wretched such as those people that did this to Christ. He forgave them from the cross!
Herrrre we go again, Okie....
Such a sophomoric, New Atheistic understanding of Christian Theology.
Are you wearing a spaghetti strainer on your head, too?
See? Mockery can go both ways.
What???
You mentioned Hell like you believe it's good and justified and necessary. I disagree and take issue with the morality of people that worship a deity that they believe tortures people for eternity and then claim to have the moral high ground.
It's fascinating to me so I like to discuss it.
How do you know your not in hell now?
Pragmatically speaking, you feel safe in your afterlife to assume you wouldn't be there too?
How about if one of your kids tricked a third of your kids and grandkids and let them astray and killed them. Would you just ignore that? And that's not even close to being a fair comparison. Imagine you made a bunch of of sentient robots to help you build your business.. and one rebelled against you, reprogrammed a third of your robots and they all started killing and destroying everything, your family, your friends, your house, your business, they came after everything. You'd just roll over if you held the off switch? No man, you'd melt that one down into slag with a flamethrower.
I'm as worried about Hell as you are about any other religions Hell.
Sounds like the robot maker fucked up.
You don't like having free will?
exactly. Matthew 7:21-23. God must come to know you during your time on the physical realm. you do this by accepting Jesus and living in His image. When you get to the gates and think you can repent and then enter, I'm sorry but you will have a rude awakening. God is equal parts love and equal parts judgement/justice.
I honestly have no problem with that. I too am a sinner. I can literally forgive anyone because God has forgiven much in me. “Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.” Luke 7:47
Nowhere does it say you must be a good person to enter heaven... Just forgiven. Your beliefs determine your reward, not your behavior.
Isn't that great?!
Wrong, again. You really need a better understanding of what you are accusing, Mr Pastafarian.
"Faith without works is dead."
Read the book of James. It's short.
You are misunderstanding what that verse is saying. Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small. Trying to say you can do a lot of good stuff and earn your way into Heaven is a slap in the face to Jesus’ perfect finished work on the cross. Christ did it all, the only thing we have to do is accept him and we are saved. I’m sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s really just your ego telling you that you can do righteous works and earn your salvation. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
That isn't what I'm saying at all - nor is it what James is saying. I do not believe in a works based faith. "Once you are saved, you will by nature do good works great or small." This sentence is closer to what I, and James, is saying.
The thief on the cross next to Jesus is proof that faith (justified belief) is all that's required to enter Paradise. If you don't die right after your true confession, then you will by nature (new nature) do good works.
My apologies if I misunderstood your point. God bless.
So you're saying, a total unbelieving asshole will not go to heaven if he dies after just receiving Jesus Christ as his lord and savior at an alter call?
See? You're wrong. Belief is all that's required. Behavior isn't a contingency.
This is a fair question, and I hope it shows you the complex nature of God that goes beyond our comprehension. Belief alone, will not get you into heaven. It is the first step and without it you won't get in, even if you live a mostly good life (no one can live a perfect life). God must also come to know you during your time on earth by imaging Christ. Grace made it possible though, because we cleanse ourself in the blood of Christ that allows us to enter the Kingdom without being destroyed. This is made evident throughout the Bible. You must do good works AND accept Christ by loving Him will all your heart, mind, and strength. So if you live a sinful life and reject God until the very last minute, do you get into heaven? Only God can answer that, he can see your true nature, but I would argue no (at first). But this doesn't mean you are doomed either. Hell is another concept many Christians don't seem to fully understand. Hell is the holding cell before your final trial. There is pain and suffering in hell, much like we see in today's world, but that isn't the end judgement. The final judgement comes on the day of the Lord, and if you still have a hardened heart, you get tossed into the lake of fire (which is what the common belief of hell is now). Hope this helps explain somethings!
Okay
"I just watched ‘The Passion of The Christ‘ for the first time. My thinking is that we all still got it pretty easy, compared to what this man went through, for our sins."
...and now he's going to come back and judge the world. Let that sink in.
it's absolutely mind bending. the crucifixion and resurrection was just the beginning. the best is yet to come.
Poor jim caviezal had to experience it momentarily getting struck by lightning on set.
He also was struck by the cat-o-nine tails during the whipping scene when the whip missed his protective bodysuit a few times. He’s a good actor and took his role seriously .
Yeah I guess jesus is a bit into method acting.
There's probably still some documentary-type videos on YT that are about the filming of this movie. So many miracles occurred. It's incredible to think about what the spirit world would have looked like on that set IF you could see it all. WAR. It was total war.
wow guess Jesus was angry at Jim's performance or something haha
He’s a really cool guy too. He has a kind but strong heart.
https://youtu.be/N8j3pErRa44
https://youtu.be/cOP0FoVMXUM
I cried while I watched this knowing what he went through for me/us. 😢🙏
The account is NOT scriptural. Christ was no doubt abused but no where near this portrayal. If he was near death when crucified then his quick death would not have been a surprise to Pontius Pilate. The movie is from a Marian perspective and puts tremendous emphasis on suffering. Deluge of downvotes in 3….2….1
It says in scripture he wasn't just whipped but flogged 39 times. That would turn any body into a bloody pulp. So why was Pontius surprised? Well, scourging was a common practice before crucifixion for certain crimes and most people still spent usually a day on the cross. What is also surprising is that Jesus' "crime" was deemed worthy of scourging. So when Jesus died in a fraction of the time, it would be surprising.
It wasn't "deemed worthy" Pilate scoured Him and then presented Him back to the Jews hoping that would satisfy them and they would let Him go. But that didn't work so the Jews continued to demand His crucifixion.
you're right. i meant from the perspective of those that wanted him dead. Pilate didn't want him dead. Which is interesting, because Pilate actually made the suffering much worse, even if that wasn't his intention.
100% The crucifixion was close to a scripture account, and he was flogged more than shown in the movie. But there is a lot of other theological errors in the movie, and as a typical Roman Catholic movie goes it emphasized all on suffering, they have a weird hard on for that stuff, while the rest of us emphasize on His resurrection. The movie was nothing more than soft core porn for gore. I wish I knew the name of it, and unfortunately it's in Arabic but there is a very very old Egyptian movie about Christ that is extremely good.
to be fair, the movie is called the passion. not the passion and resurrection. I do think Christians need to do a better job understanding the suffering part of it all. The resurrection is to instill hope. Why I think it is super important to understand the suffering is that Jesus never promised we wouldn't suffering on the earth. He didn't suffer to prevent us from suffering in this time and space. A lot of his teaching is to warn us and prepare us for the coming persecution. We need to mentally prepare for the suffering so that it isnt a total shock. This will give us endurance and hope when we face the evil in front of us. The church will carry out the passion in the days to come, and by the church, I mean the members of Christ.
They added their own flair into it, one being Satan in the garden (which he wasn't) not to mention making Satan a woman thing, another was their take on Judas, which isn't biblical with him hiding under a bridge? as well as Christ "inventing" a table with chairs. In these parts they could have done so much more that was actually Biblical instead of adding their own weird theology to the movie.
oh yeah, i can agree with you there. i was just commenting on why it focused on the suffering rather than the resurrection. i might have missed your point, sorry about that. but i think the point of the movie was to emphasize the suffering to really hit your heart. But at the end of the day, it's still Hollywood. I think Hollywood shows a lot of violence, but not the accurate correlation of suffering that goes along with it. It desensitizes in a way. i know the movie moved a lot of people spiritually seeing the brutality, letting them see what He actually went through for us. and if it brings more people to Christ, then the movie did its job (or anyone's job, which is to serve and witness to Christ)
Keeping the faith and trusting in the lord. I've been blackballed and treated like a leper by my friends, family, and coworkers. The lord hasn't turned his back on me and you're right this is just a trial and all part of gods plan.
God bless
I remember reading that the scourging He endured normally would have killed any typical man after about half of what He went through. He fought to live so He could complete His task. For us.
Yes I heard this too. The whip is actually nine portions of leather laced with sharpened human bone and stones. Being whipped with this will year flesh from bone. The Romans wasted no time.
For the FIRST time? After almost 20 years?
it was the ultimate lesson. to fully accept Jesus means to let go of all earthly desires, even life itself. i'm not saying go out and seek martyrdom, it is a horrendous thing and should not be romanticized. but all Christians will be persecuted during the great tribulation. the church will be the live demonstration of the gospel/passion. Christians NEED to understand this lessen before the time comes.
I think all that stuff about love this and love that is made up imo. The fags used it to justify their faggotry like a perfect chess move against us. Shit like "hate the sin not the sinner". Look where that type of thinking got us. You can't show a faggot or that entire "community" any love at all. They took tolerance and turned it into an attempt to normalize pedophilia along with all the other shit they do.
There's a reason why the religious world has always kept faggots and faggotry down violently, we now live what happens when you give them an inch.
it's because satan infiltrated the word love. love is a key concept in the bible, but the term how it is used today is not the same meaning. love must be balanced by God's law. you need both to get to the Father. Rebuke the sinner, but don't hate them. let them hate you just as they hated Jesus first. show them the truth and let God handle the judgement. Hating the person only brings you down with them.
This is interesting to note: Mel Gibson, Catholic, used Scripture and the Church-approved visions of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. When you saw scenes and thought maybe Mel took Hollywood liberty with the storyline, nope. He was faithful to Scripture and her visions. Her visions are so accurate that they have been used as a map to unearth buried streets in the holy land! And she also prophesied the SHEER EVIL that would inhabit the VATICAN: a satanic Marxist church eclipsing the actual Catholic Church, a Church so foul that Satan created it. Deo vindice.
Saw a powerful comment here on GAW and will be using it going forward.
It wasn’t the nails that held Jesus up on the cross, it was his love for you.
Amen. Christ suffered immense physical torture. But His greatest suffering was taking the full wrath of God the Father for the sins of His beloved children, past, present and future. Those who repent and put their faith in Christ will never suffer Gods wrath, but are fully redeemed
Don't forget about this.
Jim Caviezel on Adrenochrome And Child Trafficking
Hopefully your nerve endings are destroyed after the first few hundred lashings.
Saw it in theaters when it first came out. Once is enough. I’ll never be able to watch it again.
Amen brother.
I was just thinking this, about some persistent drama in my life. That everyone has their cross to bear, and mine is so light comparably speaking.
One very big mistake most people make is they try to mix the Kingdom Gospel preached by John, Jesus and the 12 to Israel with the Gospel of Grace given to Paul, which is our gospel during this dispensation. Understand the difference, Christ earthy ministry was to Israel under the law and it was all a fulfilment of prophecy. What we have today is the body of Christ, a new creature which was a mystery revealed to Paul, unknown to anyone before it was revealed to Paul. A different gospel. Prophecy vs Mystery.
You won't find this taught in Church but it's very important to understand the difference.
Can you tell me what gospel you’re trusting in for salvation?
This one gets me so hard.
I remember when it came out, the Catholic Church said to boycott the movie.
I just watched this a few weeks ago for the first time. Pretty intense .
Sadly. He was going to do a follow up/sequel at one time, looks like may still happen https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5795232/news
We are missing the biggest sacrifice. It wasn't the torture beating and hanging on the cross but it was coming here with full knowledge/choice and not partaking in the temptations of this world. There is something tempting about this place that even angels have fallen victim to its alure. He said nah he will not have a palace even though he could, nah he won't have a all the wine and women, nah he'll live amongst the woods in the streets and who ever will shelter him, like a vagrant knowing he has such a short time here. Mid 30s thats all, a young man never getting to feel the breakdown of old age, Grey hair, and watching your grandchildren play in your front yard and remembering raising hell your your buddies at the saloon. He didn't have a life like ours and never will at all he gave it all. His whole run.
Also: He who has no shadow or darkness in Him had to BECOME sin and pay that price. And He knew just how dark the sins were that He was taking on Himself. He knew how many sins.
I've been awed that the wages of sin is death, but He had no sin in Him....if He had not released His spirit I do not think it could have ended. How amazing that He knew the exact moment it was done. And more amazing that He did this for us.
Thank you for those powerful words