Side note: this type of treatment is generally called 'constructive dismissal' by lawyers, which is treated the same as firing in many states. Also, this sounds like a good time to use those mental health services and sick days.
Very good point. Call the employer provide mental health line. Open a case with them and they can't fire or do anything to you. They will probably make you work from home.
Don't give in ..I have been V injured...it was the worst mistake of my life...walk off of the job if it gets to that...God Bless you and your family...🙏
Sucks,, they say after the holidays there going to come down on us? but in the one news letter they dont wanna punish us??? LoL, yeah OK right,,,,,, FJB he is not my doctor
When the VA corruption is finally exposed the fact that Chinese doctors were hired to work there (they are horrible to us) my wife's boss was a Chinese doctor who deliberately kept the lab in disarray. She finally had to leave. I have tonuse the VA and I'll tell you. They hate I won't turn all my health care decisions over to them. I seem to buck everything they want to do. Trust for medicine for me is zero. Doctors is negative 20
As a severely disabled vet I have always considered the VA a terrorist organization. They treat vets like shit and their philosophy is delay, delay the vet will eventually die and then we will not have to deal with them. Like most government agencies they believe their privileged positions are not to serve those they were created for but to further their own agenda and fat pay check. We need massive anti- federalism on a scale never seen. They are criminals.
My brother died from Gulf War Syndrome after serving in Desert Storm. He had a blood clot in his leg that eventually killed him. An eight week wait to be seen by a doctor at the VA in Columbus, OH. The VA is 95% worthless.
Yep. Friend got out of the army but needed new glasses and decided it was better to wear the old ones like morpheus' nose bridge clip glasses for months instead because it's almost not worth the time and energy to go through the VA.
If your in your early 60's you likely have early cataract formation. If so you can have your eye lenses (cataracts) replaced with multifocal lenses. I did it 4 years ago, and will never ever need glasses again for both close, distance and anywhere in between. Best money I ever spent, and no more expensive glasses every year, and I can buy the sunglasses I like (non prescription).
Do you live in the states? You should look into Warby Parker- I get single vision glasses for $99.00- I think bifocals might be $50 more, but that includes frames and lenses. They also give a pair away to the needy- like Tom’s shoes or Bombas socks. I got my vision checked there too got $99 and this is all out of pocket, I didn’t use my insurance.
Yeah we usually go with wal mart for eye test to get the prescription then ordering online. My sister has 3 kids that needed them at some point. That shit adds up if you're going to brick and mortar places that have those prices you mentioned.
You are absolutely correct, “Delay.”
They wait way too long for treatment of vets. The longer you delay the more difficult it is to treat! I hear this from my wife, ALOT!
I met the medical director of a life insurance carrier. (They help underwriters review cases with significant medical history. ) Quiet man. In the course of our conversation, I found he had once been a doctor at the VA. I asked him what it was like to work there and this rage came over him. It was surprising. Being we had just met, he tried hard to keep things polite, but it was obvious his opinion of the people that worked there and how they treated the patients was not high.
Agreed, and even in my wife’s department, she says that they could do so much better in treating the patients. But it is super scary at the lack of want to excel there. It’s literally killing our vets early.
Things like this are particularly difficult for women since our response can be tears, we cry mostly because of inability to fight back so it is embarrassing besides being horrible,
Tell her to consider it a private office, bring some fabulous plants, pictures and a Christmas decoration or two. Blanket across the chair and don’t forget a nice cup to hold pens. Maybe add a name plaque printed on paper and settle into the peace and quiet to be especially productive! I will say a prayer for her because I know how she feels! ❤️
I’ll send a pic of this out to her. They first told her yesterday that she would have a “meeting” today. And that she would be allowed union representation. So she decided to have our lawyer submit her “personally held religious belief” letter, instead of bowing to their LEAF platform. They cancelled the meeting and said it would be rescheduled form Monday. Then today they said that the Monday meeting is cancelled and she has to isolate. Weird because she knows others there that are in the same boat but they aren’t isolated. This is retaliation against her.
I am guessing that they sense your wife’s inherent strength. Even though she may be shaking in her boots, something of the invincible resides within her. Remind her of that fact. Sounds to me like they are losing traction and really don’t know how to deal with the situation. The tide is turning.
I echo this. Crying is also a reaction to being pissed off. Many women are raised that expression of anger is not acceptable. If you see a woman crying, don't assume the reason is only due to sadness.
File a personal lawsuit immediately against your supervisor and everyone up the chain. EEO violation, Civil Rights violation, unfair work practice violation, etc.
Don't let the people pushing the directive off the hook. Make them pay for following illegal orders.
Yes, but she is having difficulty in getting an EEO filed. She is getting resistance from every angle, even from the union (no surprise). We have a lawyer and will be pursuing that direction along with 1/2 dozen other coworkers of hers.
EEO can usually be filed internally if the company has its own EEO officer. It can also be filed with the local Government agency that handles EEO complaints. File with the local (DFEH) Dept Fair Employment & Housing or whatever agency handles EEO complaints. A person has the option of going through the government EEO agency, or he/she can file an EEO lawsuit directly. An EEO Attorney should jump on this. THERE SHOULD BE PAIN FOR COMPANIES THAT VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS! If everyone fought back, it would all be over long ago.
Please share with her I quit my job at the local hospital in 2012 because of the bullshit flu shot mandate. It lead me to a change in career which worked out in the end as a positive. She may find herself in despair now, but ultimately may lead her to a better, more positive outcome ( either there with a nice private office or elsewhere). God bless her, prayers sent.
Add the EEO personnel in the list of defendants in the lawsuit.
You could also consider filing for a Writ of Mandamus or Writ of Prohibition.
Writ of Mandamus = court order to mandate that someone do something they are legally required to do. This would apply to EEO personnel who are refusing to do their job. They would have to answer in front of a judge why they are refusing to uphold their legal responsibility. Could also apply to VA for refusing to accept exemption.
Writ of Prohibition = court order prohibiting someone from doing something. It might be called a restraining order, injunction, or something else, but the concept is the same. This would apply to VA for singling her out and discriminating against her. Since they have no legitimate basis (no scientific basis) for these actions, they should be prohibited from doing it.
This is not a personal lawsuit against anyone. It is a request for a judge to issue an order. The personal civil lawuit can come later.
Most attorneys-at-law will not file these because they work for the court system, and NOT for you. They don't want to "rock the boat" which really means they don't have any balls to stand up and do the right thing.
But you could likely find one to secretly (attorney-client privileged communications) coach you on how to do it. It would certainly shake up the bureaucrats, who would be identified by name as violating rights, and would be the target of a future lawsuit.
If you can get a judge to agree they are doing something in violation of law, then it should make a much easier lawsuit later, since they would not be able to claim immunity -- a judge already ruled that what they were doing was illegal.
It would be an injunction, it’s basically a restraining order against a large corporation. If she files this and the Supreme Court upholds the unconstitutional mandate, u/JCStomper and wife won’t have to work again!
She can definitely submit her own religious exemption, please check out coffeeandcovid, there are many great legal resources there as well as just reading up on title VII of the civil rights act, even the governments website on it is full of info on how to approach and succeed at getting a religious exemption. Document all comms where they claimed she could not do it, that will be rock solid evidence of them violating federal law. Stay strong, stand up to these bullies, they are in the wrong and they know it but it all a big game of chicken, only the one who balks loses.
It’s up to her supervisor to input her individual submission thru LEAF. And her Supervisor has stalemated. So our attorney submitted it. Now she has to isolate. Seems like retaliation.
But for real tho. I agree. They're trying to single her out and make an example of those willing to push the envelope on resisting. If she can stand strong in the face of all this bull shit, she could theoretically be a positive example for others to follow suit. Good luck to you both. Fighting a corrupt system is one of the most difficult things in this world.
She absolutely believes she is being singled out for her stance. Her Dept supervisor and her butt heads because of the sloppy treatment of the Vets and my wife has pointed out things that they could do better. But her bosses ego ( or whatever mental virus she has) gets in the way and now here we are.
It’s torture but following a psychological formula to break her spirit. I don’t believe she is alone but that’s what they want her to believe. They wouldn’t go so extreme if they had the upper hand.
Document and film every incident if possible. We must sue and believe me lawsuits will be coming like a fucking tidal wave. These people must pay for what they are doing. No more of this "I'm just doing my job" bullshit.
Document. Document. Document. EVERYTHING. Especially work generated paperwork. Go back now and start formulating a timeline with DATES. If she cannot remember the dates, take a note of the person the location etc. she spoke to, visited, to tie it together; this too could jog her memory. Dates, conversations are EVERYTHING. Keep a DIARY from today and be meticulous about it. Try and go back, then come forward in that diary. Copy phone exchanges and add them physically to the diary. Don’t rely on phone etc. records as they can easily be wiped or lost. Keep 2 HARDCOPIES of everything, but NOT at work. Intimidation will be their downfall. These tyrant will not get away with this! . I’ll be praying for her and you too. God Bless.
The V.A. sucks and doesn't care about true healthcare. If it wouldn't hurt my fellow Vets, I'd say look for another job, but realistically, we NEED good people who are good at their jobs to stay working in the V.A. Healthcare System. Damn hard choice to be in, fren. I DO NOT envy y'all, but I AM praying that V.A. sees the Light and changes course soon.
Tell her to stay strong, fren. She's got an army of frogs at her back. Have her put on the full armor of God. Nothing can stop what is coming! WRWY!
Prayers for strength and courage!
My wife has been told she can’t change the LEAF submission and she has to test. She already submitted the first right to exemption and it was approved. The Leaf doesn’t allow for individual religious exemptions for the test.
They did the same to dude in our shop, kicked him off base until he can show proof of clear test results. He didnt want to play there game of signing letter of 22nov, didnt want to update vax status in DS.GOV.. < or do test.. Atleast he had use or lose leave, last I heard he has went with Retirement... 31dec
Be sure she is documenting everything. If someone says something to her in person, she should follow up with an e-mail to that person confirming what was said in the conversation. Is she in a union? This is a change in working conditions and could be considered an Unfair Labor Practice. Consult her union head.
I ask for prayers. She is shaking and upset. She is doing her best to stand up to this mandate tyranny.
Side note: this type of treatment is generally called 'constructive dismissal' by lawyers, which is treated the same as firing in many states. Also, this sounds like a good time to use those mental health services and sick days.
Very good point. Call the employer provide mental health line. Open a case with them and they can't fire or do anything to you. They will probably make you work from home.
☝🏼Read THIS u/JCStomper!!
I sent it to her, ty fren!
Do you mean the EAP? Employee Assistance Program? Or something different?
Prayers sent, fren. Dear Lord, please cover this woman's heart with your comfort, peace and love. Comfort her in body and soul. Amen
Ty
Sending prayers for her and you. Asking the Holy Spirit to send her strength and guidance.
Don't give in ..I have been V injured...it was the worst mistake of my life...walk off of the job if it gets to that...God Bless you and your family...🙏
Ty for your support! I pray for you health my fren!
🙏
Sucks,, they say after the holidays there going to come down on us? but in the one news letter they dont wanna punish us??? LoL, yeah OK right,,,,,, FJB he is not my doctor
When the VA corruption is finally exposed the fact that Chinese doctors were hired to work there (they are horrible to us) my wife's boss was a Chinese doctor who deliberately kept the lab in disarray. She finally had to leave. I have tonuse the VA and I'll tell you. They hate I won't turn all my health care decisions over to them. I seem to buck everything they want to do. Trust for medicine for me is zero. Doctors is negative 20
As a severely disabled vet I have always considered the VA a terrorist organization. They treat vets like shit and their philosophy is delay, delay the vet will eventually die and then we will not have to deal with them. Like most government agencies they believe their privileged positions are not to serve those they were created for but to further their own agenda and fat pay check. We need massive anti- federalism on a scale never seen. They are criminals.
My brother died from Gulf War Syndrome after serving in Desert Storm. He had a blood clot in his leg that eventually killed him. An eight week wait to be seen by a doctor at the VA in Columbus, OH. The VA is 95% worthless.
Yep. Friend got out of the army but needed new glasses and decided it was better to wear the old ones like morpheus' nose bridge clip glasses for months instead because it's almost not worth the time and energy to go through the VA.
I hate glasses, granted I need them..
vision insurance is such a scam its not worth having.
cost at work is $500 a year covers exam and free frames. lenses cost 300+
out of pocket $100 exam 3 pairs of glasses online $200
I don't blame him on the morpheous glasses, I waited 3 years between exams and only went cause I couldn't wear mine anymore
If your in your early 60's you likely have early cataract formation. If so you can have your eye lenses (cataracts) replaced with multifocal lenses. I did it 4 years ago, and will never ever need glasses again for both close, distance and anywhere in between. Best money I ever spent, and no more expensive glasses every year, and I can buy the sunglasses I like (non prescription).
Do you live in the states? You should look into Warby Parker- I get single vision glasses for $99.00- I think bifocals might be $50 more, but that includes frames and lenses. They also give a pair away to the needy- like Tom’s shoes or Bombas socks. I got my vision checked there too got $99 and this is all out of pocket, I didn’t use my insurance.
Yeah we usually go with wal mart for eye test to get the prescription then ordering online. My sister has 3 kids that needed them at some point. That shit adds up if you're going to brick and mortar places that have those prices you mentioned.
Find an America's best. They often have an eye exam and 2 pairs of.glasses starting at 70 bucks. Unbelievably cheap.
You are absolutely correct, “Delay.” They wait way too long for treatment of vets. The longer you delay the more difficult it is to treat! I hear this from my wife, ALOT!
I met the medical director of a life insurance carrier. (They help underwriters review cases with significant medical history. ) Quiet man. In the course of our conversation, I found he had once been a doctor at the VA. I asked him what it was like to work there and this rage came over him. It was surprising. Being we had just met, he tried hard to keep things polite, but it was obvious his opinion of the people that worked there and how they treated the patients was not high.
Agreed, and even in my wife’s department, she says that they could do so much better in treating the patients. But it is super scary at the lack of want to excel there. It’s literally killing our vets early.
I’m with Ya Fren. Us Vets DEMAND RESPECT!!!
Tell her to set up her isolation space as a fabulous private office!
Ty, I will
Things like this are particularly difficult for women since our response can be tears, we cry mostly because of inability to fight back so it is embarrassing besides being horrible, Tell her to consider it a private office, bring some fabulous plants, pictures and a Christmas decoration or two. Blanket across the chair and don’t forget a nice cup to hold pens. Maybe add a name plaque printed on paper and settle into the peace and quiet to be especially productive! I will say a prayer for her because I know how she feels! ❤️
I’ll send a pic of this out to her. They first told her yesterday that she would have a “meeting” today. And that she would be allowed union representation. So she decided to have our lawyer submit her “personally held religious belief” letter, instead of bowing to their LEAF platform. They cancelled the meeting and said it would be rescheduled form Monday. Then today they said that the Monday meeting is cancelled and she has to isolate. Weird because she knows others there that are in the same boat but they aren’t isolated. This is retaliation against her.
I am guessing that they sense your wife’s inherent strength. Even though she may be shaking in her boots, something of the invincible resides within her. Remind her of that fact. Sounds to me like they are losing traction and really don’t know how to deal with the situation. The tide is turning.
Ty and I agree. I told her she is right over target and they are trying to get a leaflet angle.
Spot on. I commend you both for your strength - God bless you.
Prayers from me over you and your Mrs. JC.
Ty fren
Add a mini fridge, toaster oven, single coffee maker and other nicknacks for a woman cave.
I’m an introvert so I can make any space comfortable. Plus she can eat in peace.
😃
What is LEAF? I'm sorry this is happening to your wife! Terrible treatment right before Christmas!
LEAF is the VA’s online employee portal that they use to track the COVID mandates and testing of all the VA’s employees. It’s a one size fits all.
I echo this. Crying is also a reaction to being pissed off. Many women are raised that expression of anger is not acceptable. If you see a woman crying, don't assume the reason is only due to sadness.
Yes! I always end up crying when I get really mad and frustrated. I hate it
Ohhhh yes. Don’t forget the super hero “Momma Bear”
Chinese are good for this tactic, what the people do is end up doing what others are suggesting, reading or writing books.
they're hoping she's gone shortly, but will end up putting her back to work rather than waste the money
File a personal lawsuit immediately against your supervisor and everyone up the chain. EEO violation, Civil Rights violation, unfair work practice violation, etc.
Don't let the people pushing the directive off the hook. Make them pay for following illegal orders.
Yes, but she is having difficulty in getting an EEO filed. She is getting resistance from every angle, even from the union (no surprise). We have a lawyer and will be pursuing that direction along with 1/2 dozen other coworkers of hers.
AWESOME!!!!!
EEO can usually be filed internally if the company has its own EEO officer. It can also be filed with the local Government agency that handles EEO complaints. File with the local (DFEH) Dept Fair Employment & Housing or whatever agency handles EEO complaints. A person has the option of going through the government EEO agency, or he/she can file an EEO lawsuit directly. An EEO Attorney should jump on this. THERE SHOULD BE PAIN FOR COMPANIES THAT VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS! If everyone fought back, it would all be over long ago.
Thanks fren
Please share with her I quit my job at the local hospital in 2012 because of the bullshit flu shot mandate. It lead me to a change in career which worked out in the end as a positive. She may find herself in despair now, but ultimately may lead her to a better, more positive outcome ( either there with a nice private office or elsewhere). God bless her, prayers sent.
Ty will do.
That’s what we would call discrimination.
YES! She is trying to submit an EEO. And surprisingly she isn’t getting much help from the EEO office.
Add the EEO personnel in the list of defendants in the lawsuit.
You could also consider filing for a Writ of Mandamus or Writ of Prohibition.
Writ of Mandamus = court order to mandate that someone do something they are legally required to do. This would apply to EEO personnel who are refusing to do their job. They would have to answer in front of a judge why they are refusing to uphold their legal responsibility. Could also apply to VA for refusing to accept exemption.
Writ of Prohibition = court order prohibiting someone from doing something. It might be called a restraining order, injunction, or something else, but the concept is the same. This would apply to VA for singling her out and discriminating against her. Since they have no legitimate basis (no scientific basis) for these actions, they should be prohibited from doing it.
This is not a personal lawsuit against anyone. It is a request for a judge to issue an order. The personal civil lawuit can come later.
Most attorneys-at-law will not file these because they work for the court system, and NOT for you. They don't want to "rock the boat" which really means they don't have any balls to stand up and do the right thing.
But you could likely find one to secretly (attorney-client privileged communications) coach you on how to do it. It would certainly shake up the bureaucrats, who would be identified by name as violating rights, and would be the target of a future lawsuit.
If you can get a judge to agree they are doing something in violation of law, then it should make a much easier lawsuit later, since they would not be able to claim immunity -- a judge already ruled that what they were doing was illegal.
Thanks MAG! Great information to use
It would be an injunction, it’s basically a restraining order against a large corporation. If she files this and the Supreme Court upholds the unconstitutional mandate, u/JCStomper and wife won’t have to work again!
She can definitely submit her own religious exemption, please check out coffeeandcovid, there are many great legal resources there as well as just reading up on title VII of the civil rights act, even the governments website on it is full of info on how to approach and succeed at getting a religious exemption. Document all comms where they claimed she could not do it, that will be rock solid evidence of them violating federal law. Stay strong, stand up to these bullies, they are in the wrong and they know it but it all a big game of chicken, only the one who balks loses.
It’s up to her supervisor to input her individual submission thru LEAF. And her Supervisor has stalemated. So our attorney submitted it. Now she has to isolate. Seems like retaliation.
I LOVE COMMAS TOO.
But for real tho. I agree. They're trying to single her out and make an example of those willing to push the envelope on resisting. If she can stand strong in the face of all this bull shit, she could theoretically be a positive example for others to follow suit. Good luck to you both. Fighting a corrupt system is one of the most difficult things in this world.
Yes, who knew it would look like this! (I immediately thought COMMS when you cap’ed COMMAS)
She absolutely believes she is being singled out for her stance. Her Dept supervisor and her butt heads because of the sloppy treatment of the Vets and my wife has pointed out things that they could do better. But her bosses ego ( or whatever mental virus she has) gets in the way and now here we are.
That’s an amazing success story! I’ll pass on your encouragement.
Ty for your kind and uplifting words
It’s torture but following a psychological formula to break her spirit. I don’t believe she is alone but that’s what they want her to believe. They wouldn’t go so extreme if they had the upper hand.
You're wife's a pure blood. 😸👍🏼 She's a keeper.
Indeed!
Document and film every incident if possible. We must sue and believe me lawsuits will be coming like a fucking tidal wave. These people must pay for what they are doing. No more of this "I'm just doing my job" bullshit.
Seeing combat I'm tne VA.
Document. Document. Document. EVERYTHING. Especially work generated paperwork. Go back now and start formulating a timeline with DATES. If she cannot remember the dates, take a note of the person the location etc. she spoke to, visited, to tie it together; this too could jog her memory. Dates, conversations are EVERYTHING. Keep a DIARY from today and be meticulous about it. Try and go back, then come forward in that diary. Copy phone exchanges and add them physically to the diary. Don’t rely on phone etc. records as they can easily be wiped or lost. Keep 2 HARDCOPIES of everything, but NOT at work. Intimidation will be their downfall. These tyrant will not get away with this! . I’ll be praying for her and you too. God Bless.
The V.A. sucks and doesn't care about true healthcare. If it wouldn't hurt my fellow Vets, I'd say look for another job, but realistically, we NEED good people who are good at their jobs to stay working in the V.A. Healthcare System. Damn hard choice to be in, fren. I DO NOT envy y'all, but I AM praying that V.A. sees the Light and changes course soon.
LEAF is the VA’s online employee portal that they use to track the COVID mandates and testing of all the VA’s employees. It’s a one size fits all.
Make sure she documents who what where when and why in case this ends up in litigation at some point.
Definitely!
Much appreciated Doc
Lawyer up.
Tell her to stay strong, fren. She's got an army of frogs at her back. Have her put on the full armor of God. Nothing can stop what is coming! WRWY! Prayers for strength and courage!
Ty Wulf for the encouragement
Tell her to "isolate" from home.
12% of my VA, where I work, have put in exemptions. Could possibly be more, who knows. Thats pure insanity.
My wife has been told she can’t change the LEAF submission and she has to test. She already submitted the first right to exemption and it was approved. The Leaf doesn’t allow for individual religious exemptions for the test.
They did the same to dude in our shop, kicked him off base until he can show proof of clear test results. He didnt want to play there game of signing letter of 22nov, didnt want to update vax status in DS.GOV.. < or do test.. Atleast he had use or lose leave, last I heard he has went with Retirement... 31dec
It seems the agenda goes well beyond a virus, Vax, and test.
Be sure she is documenting everything. If someone says something to her in person, she should follow up with an e-mail to that person confirming what was said in the conversation. Is she in a union? This is a change in working conditions and could be considered an Unfair Labor Practice. Consult her union head.
They did the same thing to a whistle blower too some years ago
I don’t mince words, each individual manager, leader or whatever using psychological torture needs to die in a fucking fire.
Barnes Law is great 👍🏽
Thanks for the links 20-G.
Absolutely