I am hopeful Americans well reject these crap Chinese cars that are as likely to catch fire or explode themselves when you use the battery in normal driving.
When you buy a cheap China car, you are investing in your future...immolation /cremation.
There is a pretty long video out there of cars and especially scooters that spontaneously catch on fire and explode. The explosions are spectacular. They are making the Chinese take their scooters out of the apartments and put them all together in a lot. But when one catches on fire, they all do. It is a function of the shoddy batteries.
I remember this. I rode for a couple hours in the backseat of a Pinto, (one of those lovely orange ones 😄), to and back from a concert, and this came out right after that. Made me retroactively shit my pants! 😂
Edit: BTW, Medium wanted me to create an account, so I archived it so I could read the whole thing.
I had a couple of these kind of cars. Didn't have a Pacer, but I had an AMC Spirit, last car without air conditioning I ever bought. Drive train went on that one, what a hunk of junk. Also had one of those awful Dodge Omnis.
My favorite car was my '73 Charger! Loved and miss that thing!
Yeah. I have an older SUV/Van that I keep garaged all the time, it's been paid off for years and is pristine except for the body style being dated. I just can't see myself selling it. To replace it (3 spacious rows, all leather aniline interior, heated seats, sun Roof, Luggage rack on top, all passenger doors open with remote, hatch opens with remote, new tires, great color.... I'd have to pay minimum $60k! This is just ridiculous!
Yeah. This 13% inflation (or whatever lie they are tossing around) is so far from the truth that it is insulting. If you look at food - in my area? 50% if not 200% increase. Restaurant prices - nearly double. Gas was up to almost $6.00 per gallon for a while there (now under $4.00) which is 200% to 250% increase from the below $2.00 per gallon.
And don't get me started on the price of real estate! The price has almost doubled, plus the interest rate has tripled. Who can afford this? Only a small percentage of people.
We keep allowing these idiot leaders to get away with lying about their actions. It has to stop.
China makes such poor electric batteries that an average of 8 per day are spontaneously bursting into flames and exploding. And nearly every time it happens the electric bike or car is in a huge crowded parking lot, garage, or charging center and it burns every vehicle in the area. They just had a 20+ story building nearly burn to the ground from an EV fire recently. The fires are almost impossible to extinguish, they often have to burn themselves out.
Anyone who buys any EV, whether it's a car, bike, bus, work vehicle, etc is a fucking moron with a death wish.
Only thing is, nobody wants electric vehicles: mileage is poor, they are too expensive, they use a lot of energy to charge, they won’t charge in cold weather, people do not want items made in China, there aren’t enough charging stations, the cars and batteries cause pollution-not recyclable, and they are a fire hazard.
None of that is true, however Tesla model Y beat out Toyota Corolla's and RAV4's first quarter of 2023 so EV's are quite desirable when done right. It's unfortunate the Pedophile in the White House is trying to shove them down everyones' throat tho.
None of what is right? EV’s cost way to much, the batteries are made in China, they have trouble charging in cold weather, the EV’s lithium batteries are not recyclable, fossil fuels are used to charge them, there are not enough charging stations, etc. Are you saying none of this is true? EV may work fine in 15 minute cities if you have a charger, because they don’t go far. Do you work for an EV manufacturer or are you a brain washed liberal? It is bad enough that with computer chips in all new model cars now, the government knows exactly where you are and you can easily be shut down. With electric vehicles it is far easier-just make all charging stations inoperable. If everyone was required to drive an EV and give up gas vehicles, those who could afford one might have a difficult time charging them. It would take multi millions to install all of the charging stations needed nationwide.
You're wrong about them not being able to charge in the cold, they charge just fine in the cold when the batteries are pre conditioned. The problem is you had a bunch of retarded dogbrains in Chicago that don't know how to properly operate their EV's and tried to charge them without pre conditioning (Warming up) the batteries. This won't be a problem at all when better battery tech comes out that doesn't rely solely on liquid lithium.
15 minute cities because they don't go very far is another one of your completely wrong statements that's quite retarded, and makes me think you have a sub room temperature IQ. The most popular EV is by far the Tesla model Y with 300 miles of range gives you about 3 hours of driving so I don't know where the confusion comes from with 15 minute cities. Once again this won't be a problem with better battery tech.
Most new ICE vehicles are loaded up with computer chips out the ass too recently it came out that Companies such as the General Motors Co., Honda Motor Co. Ltd., the Kia Corp. and more, have been using the data from connected cars to compile a behavioral profile of the driver and selling it to insurance companies. You think only EV's are susceptible to this shady shit? I at least trust Elon much more than I trust Kia, and GM. Maybe you should support Tesla and Elon as he is the only confirmed NON woke car maker.
You want to keep buying your shitty Ford's and Chevys from these woke shitbirds, go ahead. Do you honestly think that only EV's will be susceptible to the government being able to turn off your car, are you dumb?
Every new ICE vehicle will also have the the ability to track your car, and turn off your car just like EV's will have if the shitstains in congress allow it.
No, it won't take multi millions to install all the charging stations needed worldwide because most people will be charging their EV's at home. Once EV batteries are improved to 400-500 miles of range charging on the road won't be needed barely at all.
Nobody should be required to drive an EV. The market should decide, and EV's will dominate the market once better batteries are here because they are superior to ICE vehicles in every way. Unfortunately we have a retarded pedophile in the White House trying to shove them down everyones' throats, and his faggot cabinet is too short sighted to see the battery tech isn't there yet.
#1: No need for insults-Did I say you were stupid for wanting an EV? You have a right to your opinion, as do I. #2: I do know that cars can be tracked; I believe I stated all newer cars with computer chips can be tracked. Insurance companies will give a discount if you sign up for their “Safe Driver” programs. #3: You keep saying in the future batteries will provide better mileage and be more efficient, that is hypothetical. We do not know for certain how the cars batteries will work in the future. #4: Currently the cars are expensive and EV’s rely on lithium batteries produced in China. #5: “In the future, you will charge your car from home.” True, but another expense for EV owners and once again uses electricity to charge, at what expense? #6: As far as I know, there is currently zero mechanism for recycling the expensive lithium batteries when they are defunct. #7: On one thing you are correct, people should have a choice: continue with gasoline powered cars, hybrids, EV’s, or perhaps another alternative in the future. Shoving the EV as mandatory down our throats is not choice in a republic. #8: There actually have been quite a few reports of chargers not working in the cold. I guess if you are in Florida, California, Hawaii or Texas that isn’t a problem. #9: EV’s are more expensive than gas powered cars. There is no environmental benefit. But there is a benefit to those invested in or owning stock in the EV market, if it is made mandatory that all vehicles sold by say 2030 are EV’s. One more thing. It always surprises me when individuals have to resort to insults during the attempt to “inform” someone. I hope it makes you feel you are very wise and informed. Enjoy your EV.
Sorry for insults, but I was already getting attacked on this thread for trying to clear up the misinformation that people were spewing about them. The sheer amount of misinformation that is being thrown around about them everywhere is maddening. They're getting hit from both sides because mainstream media wants to ruin Elon, destroy Tesla, and Twitter. Then Trump supporters are raging against them because the shitbirds in the Biden admin keep forcing them on people. I don't blame our side for hating them because of Biden but they're passing around misinformation about them and most people are upvoting bad information because they hate EV's thanks to leftist freaks and their communist climate change agenda.
I don't like EV's because I think they're better for the environment I like them because of their superior smooth acceleration, low maintenance, and advanced tech. I also hate going to the gas station, I'd rather charge at home. I used to drive an Audi that ate oil crazy, then one day the engine blew because of sludge in the Engine, thanks to poor design on a ICE vehicle that should never happen because it's had 100 years to perfect.
Better EV batteries are more than just hypothetical they're being diligently worked on, but they may not pan out the way I'm hoping they do. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think I am.
EV owners in Norway have no problem charging and using their cars in the cold, Norway one of the coldest places has some of the highest adoption of EV's in the world. There are stories of the EV chargers not working in the cold that was blown up in the media like crazy because of hatred for Elon and Tesla. A few months ago I stopped at a gas station, and the pumps were broken, I almost ran out of gas trying to get to the next station. Should there be a national news story and outrage about it? Absolutely not, but when it happens to Tesla it becomes national news. People on here are losing their basic reasoning skills to rage against EV's, and it's disgusting.
No apology needed. We all must stick together and consider each other’s opinions. Thank you for the info. regarding battery recycling. Only by listening to each other do we expand our learning and thinking. Have a great day! My best to you.
The big thing with these newer cars, especially the EV's is control. They can control your access to fuel them. Same can be said for gas and diesel, but not to the extent of electric cars. Add to that, some of the new car makers are also publishing your driving characteristics to the insurance companies.
The very first thing I would do with a new car is delete that uplink module - find the grey / black market hacks that disable it's functionality. In the interim, I will drive my old non connected car :-)
How many ways can you make gasoline?
How many ways can you generally electric power?
Drive what you want. Your choice. But you should look back at what has happened in the last decade in batteries is more than what has changed in the last 150 years.
It’s fundamentally changing, is the EV the perfect answer for everyone? Nope. But for some it makes sense. Consider I have a 125 mile daily commute. With gas upwards of $3/gallon, EV may be a worthwhile choice
More of them remotely shutting it off because it's connected. I get the concept. I also get the concept of being off-grid with a power wall / power bank and generating your own energy. I am all for it will be doing that piece in the very near future. But the point of auto manufactures having full access to my car as it was legislated on ICE and electric cars, is concerning because I have less than zero faith in the government as proven over the past two or three years.
I know that Rich and other folks have gotten further down into the coding on Teslas, if there was a solution to turn off that access, I would feel more comfortable. I am sure you could unplug a module etc, I just do not know the downstream implications of that approach.
As far as battery tech, couldn't agree more. It's a great local solution and have zero issues with it. I build shit with 18650's and probably have a few thousand of them around the casa now. I am not adverse to the tech. I am adverse to the abilities of big brother causing loss of freedom.
P.S. Mixed fleet (I have a lot of vehicles) Both a mix of petrol and diesel. I have had grease (WVO) cars prior, so yes, I can produce a large enough volume if needed.
You are truly unique. I couldn’t make a drop of gasoline if my life depended upon it.
One of my poorer decisions was to not focus on SW. “You only write code once” was the worst advice I ever received and listened to. I am a HW electrical engineer, and have spent most of my life in R&D. Super Computing, to Servers to PC motherboards, now space. I admire Musk, and see inherent benefits to the EV from the reliability side. But control is a legitimate fear
"Although the rate of growth has slowed recently, EV demand is clearly moving in the right direction," a GM spokeswoman told NPR. Ford CEO Jim Farley told investors on Tuesday that "the journey on EVs is inevitable, in our eyes."
Because Model Y debuted in China in late 2022 and was used as a social counter against Japanese auto sales (that have always been discouraged by the CCP). Over a third of the sales that JATO counts for all of 2023 are to Chinese markets.
The latter half of 2023 saw a very marked increase in China assaulting western products at market. Expect that position to falter as a result.
Additionally, individual model sales tracking only really became a "news item" when it started to benefit EVs "being close" to beating the traditional OEMs. And thats how all the news articles are written about the Y. Its "upset" the market or caused a "seismic shift" in the auto industry.
But look at total gas/diesel sales vs EV sales and suddenly the real story emerges: EVs are a niche market, often supported by government fleet orders.
Funny how cutting the data until the narrative the paper wants to reach just works out every time.
You're comparing EV's to the total sale of gas/diesel now? That's not even a far comparison at all. Tesla's are the only EV's worth buying, and they outsold a very popular vehicle that's almost half it's cost. You think Tesla EV's are a niche? They were outselling Corolla's even tho they're half the cost. Wait until Tesla puts out a cheaper EV right in the same price range as a Toyota Corolla with 350 miles of range. That will not be a niche market, no matter how bad you want it to be. They're insanely popular because they offer many advantages over gas vehicles.
And it is fair, because EVs are a niche. Heralding the doom of the gasoline industry because one EV is finally in the price range of a fully loaded SUV sounds a lot like the Year of the Linux Desktop, but for cars.
And the only way they get Corolla-level cheap on EVs right now is through even more government subsidy. So I have to pay for your delusions.
Ok pay me for my delusions. Electric drivetrains are far superior to ICE vehicles almost every way except the batteries, the batteries suck, but better battery tech is coming. Once better battery tech is here there is nothing keeping EV's from dominating the market. Electric drivetrains require less maintenance, do not require over complicated transmissions, they're faster, and incredibly more reliable than an ICE engine. Sending electricity over wires is far more efficient, and safe than filling up giant tanks with flammable liquid and driving them across the country, or sailing them across the ocean.
They're also quieter, and way more convenient than ICE vehicles.
You're just like the guy who refused to accept ICE vehicles in the 1900's, and kept riding around in a horse and buggy. At first he probably thought ICE vehicles were just a niche, and no way could they have fill up stations built, and he would be stuck, and his ol' trusty horse just needed a few carrots to keep going. You're the one being delusional if you can't see that EV's will dominate the market some day, when better battery tech comes around.
Unfortunately the Pedophile piece of trash in the White House, and his retarded cabinet with their short sighted tunnel vision were unable to let the market decide on EV's and tried to push them everyone, so now people like you are raging against EV's when you shouldn't be, because they are superior for daily driving to ICE vehicles.
"Electric drivetrains are far superior to ICE vehicles almost every way except the batteries."
And what ways are those?
"The batteries suck"
Yes, they do. For the same reasons that you talk about flammable liquids. Condensing a massive amount of energy to a small space is inherently dangerous. You can't avoid this by preferring one explosion to another.
"better battery tech is coming."
As said by the battery industry for 40 years, and while they have made progress it's not going to happrn soon.
"Once better battery tech is here there is nothing keeping EV's from dominating the market."
Uh huh. Then let it dominate the market without subsidy when that pipe dream becomes a reality.
"Electric drivetrains require less maintenance"
No, they don't. How often do you have to maintain a transmission in your vehicle? Every 80,000 miles? Versus about 100,000 for the drive motors? Yeah, so much less maintenance.
"do not require over complicated transmissions"
Build a transmission, then build four drive motors. I'll wait for your eyes to open.
"they're faster"
In comparison to what? The strangled 4 cylinders you pay for in a $15,000 vehicle or a 6-8 cylinder you can get at the same price point?
"Incredibly more reliable than an ICE engine"
ICE engines operate for millions of miles. The recent spate of unreliability is because of government fuckery.
"Sending electricity over wires is far more efficient"
Not when counted properly. An ICE is far more efficient at generating electricity and delivering it locally than it is to generate it at a power plant, converted to AC, send it long distance to your home, convert it to DC, and then charge your battery.
"safe than filling up giant tanks with flammable liquid"
This is just wrong. Not only do batteries contain explosive liquids, but you are artificially holding back a massive electrical arc. Any damage and it's like you're back driving a ford pinto with a gas tank next to the rear bumper. And electrical fires are much harder to put out than gasoline fires.
"and driving them across the country, or sailing them across the ocean"
How does your intended purpose matter?
"They're also quieter"
True
"and way more convenient than ICE vehicles."
How are they "more convenient"?
"You're just like the guy who refused to accept ICE vehicles in the 1900's...."
You're just the guy who hopped on the steam engine vehicle and ignored the problems others see with them becuase you just know, deep down, that you can't be wrong.
"Unfortunately the Pedophile piece of trash in the White House, and his retarded cabinet with their short sighted tunnel vision were unable to let the market decide on EV's and tried to push them everyone, so now people like you are raging against EV's when you shouldn't be, because they are superior for daily driving to ICE vehicles."
People like you have been brainwashed by the pedophile pieces of trash over the last 20 years to think that EVs are some kind of competitor. It doesn't matter that people like me have taken government money to convert fleets to electric and know first hand all the bullshit surrounding them and what they can actually do and can't actually do.
They have a suitable niche, but it's not the end of ICE in any way shape or form -- unless the government forces it. And their reasons for forcing it are obvious.
Fallacy in our opening statement. You may not want one, and that's your right. But although the rate of increase has slowed, EV cars are still gaining in sales. For a cross country and remote area; ICE has some huge advantages.
There are Tesla Model 3's out there with 1 Million miles on them. It all depends on what your use model is. Not everyone wants or needs a pickup, SUV or sedan. It all depends.
Fallacy in your argument: Anecdotes don't counter numbers.
There are Toyota Corollas out there that have 2 million miles! Therefore....nothing. It's a pointless detail to throw out.
Slicing the numbers down to individual models was a financial review of wins/loses with shareholders until about 15-20 years ago, when it was the only way to even get the EVs to show on charts - and everyone was desperate to present the narrative that there was no downside to EVs.
Total gas/diesel vs EV sales show that EVs are still a niche market with the larger influx of sales being to counter social issues the last few years. A small example of this would be Ford built a 55/45 EV/Gas mix of Mavericks in their first production run. Actual demand via preorders was the opposite, about 60% Gas vs 40%. They still sold the EVs because people were desperate for vehicles and the production of their pre-orders preferences was delayed by all the covid hoopla. That was an artificial depression of gasoline sales and artificial inflation of ev sales. But EV sales were still heralded as highest evAr with no investigation of the whys.
This is an area where you need to watch for the games being played by governments and corporations getting bank from governments to cheerlead the EV for their own benefit.
When EV's make sense; they won't require any Gov't incentives. People will buy them (or not) based on the financials (cost of ownership, maintenance, cost to drive and convenience).
That said, ICE needs to re-think their approach to modern tech and manufacturing if they want to stay competitive.
Most of the fallacies of ICE engines already exist in an EV. They are there by government mandate. Its why engines are getting smaller and more prone to break down.
As usual the chinese auto makers are using predatory pricing with the advantage of slave labour wages to try to cripple the north american auto industry. I will stick with my gasoline vehicle. I would’t touch an EV, THEY ARE THE DIRTIEST VEHICLES EVER MADE! 3.82 million barrels of oil equivalent energy to make 1 EV battery pack for a tesla.
This bit of truth needs to be spoken much more loudly to the general public. Also the cost of charging them is never really taken into account. If you have your own charger at home, your electric bill would be skyrocketing and your risk for a house fire is exponentially higher. Then the cost of replacing the battery when it no longer charges properly...
You may want to break out the calculator on this. At home, and at night, the EV will charge based on your utility costs. If you have solar roof, then it’s essentially “free”
Compare a 250 mile battery with your gas tank. It’s about half the cost of gasoline. It all comes from your bank- do you pay electric company or Exxon?
Elon has made some VERY aggressive design decisions.
Your car likely has as a seat made by Company A, Environmental Controls by Company B, Transmission by Company C, Infotainment by Company D, Enginine controller by Company E -et. ad nausium. Firmware updates require "buy in" from each component the firmware touches, which translates to poor, if ever SW firmware upgrades.
Everything in a Tesla, is made by and for Tesla. Firmware updates are regular, meaningful, and improve as time goes by
Your car likely has large sections that are bolted, welded, or otherwise permanently attached. These pieces are expensive to make, repair and maintain.
Tesla makes HUGE molds, where a single cast part can replace it's comparative component that has up to several hundred process steps built into it.
China is going to have to do the same sort of thing - which means that the way Detroit and other cars have been building cars for decades; will fundamentally change, at the grassroots level.
Doesn't matter if this is ICE or EV; these are fundamental design and assembly changes.
Good info to know. However, when only one company controls the entire car, you've got a monopoly situation. Depending upon the manufacturer, this could be bad or this could be good. I always think a little competition makes everyone try harder to give a good product for a reasonable price.
I am hopeful Americans well reject these crap Chinese cars that are as likely to catch fire or explode themselves when you use the battery in normal driving.
When you buy a cheap China car, you are investing in your future...immolation /cremation.
China is Asshoe!
There is a pretty long video out there of cars and especially scooters that spontaneously catch on fire and explode. The explosions are spectacular. They are making the Chinese take their scooters out of the apartments and put them all together in a lot. But when one catches on fire, they all do. It is a function of the shoddy batteries.
Putting a lightning bolt in a rubber box is a bad idea.
Not just when driving. They burst into flames while charging or even just parked and not charging.
I wonder if they named any of them 'Pinto'?
https://medium.com/the-snail/the-exploding-ford-pinto-of-1973-ff26148d8834
I remember this. I rode for a couple hours in the backseat of a Pinto, (one of those lovely orange ones 😄), to and back from a concert, and this came out right after that. Made me retroactively shit my pants! 😂
Edit: BTW, Medium wanted me to create an account, so I archived it so I could read the whole thing.
https://archive.is/n32yX
I had a couple of these kind of cars. Didn't have a Pacer, but I had an AMC Spirit, last car without air conditioning I ever bought. Drive train went on that one, what a hunk of junk. Also had one of those awful Dodge Omnis.
My favorite car was my '73 Charger! Loved and miss that thing!
We need cheap cars again. They don't need to be EVs but 35K for a basic car is idiocy.
Yeah. I have an older SUV/Van that I keep garaged all the time, it's been paid off for years and is pristine except for the body style being dated. I just can't see myself selling it. To replace it (3 spacious rows, all leather aniline interior, heated seats, sun Roof, Luggage rack on top, all passenger doors open with remote, hatch opens with remote, new tires, great color.... I'd have to pay minimum $60k! This is just ridiculous!
With all those options, you’re looking at $75,000+ nowadays.
I think things like this show the real level of inflation.
Yeah. This 13% inflation (or whatever lie they are tossing around) is so far from the truth that it is insulting. If you look at food - in my area? 50% if not 200% increase. Restaurant prices - nearly double. Gas was up to almost $6.00 per gallon for a while there (now under $4.00) which is 200% to 250% increase from the below $2.00 per gallon.
And don't get me started on the price of real estate! The price has almost doubled, plus the interest rate has tripled. Who can afford this? Only a small percentage of people.
We keep allowing these idiot leaders to get away with lying about their actions. It has to stop.
Yes, this is true.
60K is the down payment.
A bloodbath that won't happen when Trump prevents their unfair trade practices from harming us again. He can't come back soon enough.
China makes such poor electric batteries that an average of 8 per day are spontaneously bursting into flames and exploding. And nearly every time it happens the electric bike or car is in a huge crowded parking lot, garage, or charging center and it burns every vehicle in the area. They just had a 20+ story building nearly burn to the ground from an EV fire recently. The fires are almost impossible to extinguish, they often have to burn themselves out.
Anyone who buys any EV, whether it's a car, bike, bus, work vehicle, etc is a fucking moron with a death wish.
Only thing is, nobody wants electric vehicles: mileage is poor, they are too expensive, they use a lot of energy to charge, they won’t charge in cold weather, people do not want items made in China, there aren’t enough charging stations, the cars and batteries cause pollution-not recyclable, and they are a fire hazard.
None of that is true, however Tesla model Y beat out Toyota Corolla's and RAV4's first quarter of 2023 so EV's are quite desirable when done right. It's unfortunate the Pedophile in the White House is trying to shove them down everyones' throat tho.
None of what is right? EV’s cost way to much, the batteries are made in China, they have trouble charging in cold weather, the EV’s lithium batteries are not recyclable, fossil fuels are used to charge them, there are not enough charging stations, etc. Are you saying none of this is true? EV may work fine in 15 minute cities if you have a charger, because they don’t go far. Do you work for an EV manufacturer or are you a brain washed liberal? It is bad enough that with computer chips in all new model cars now, the government knows exactly where you are and you can easily be shut down. With electric vehicles it is far easier-just make all charging stations inoperable. If everyone was required to drive an EV and give up gas vehicles, those who could afford one might have a difficult time charging them. It would take multi millions to install all of the charging stations needed nationwide.
You're wrong about them not being able to charge in the cold, they charge just fine in the cold when the batteries are pre conditioned. The problem is you had a bunch of retarded dogbrains in Chicago that don't know how to properly operate their EV's and tried to charge them without pre conditioning (Warming up) the batteries. This won't be a problem at all when better battery tech comes out that doesn't rely solely on liquid lithium.
15 minute cities because they don't go very far is another one of your completely wrong statements that's quite retarded, and makes me think you have a sub room temperature IQ. The most popular EV is by far the Tesla model Y with 300 miles of range gives you about 3 hours of driving so I don't know where the confusion comes from with 15 minute cities. Once again this won't be a problem with better battery tech.
Most new ICE vehicles are loaded up with computer chips out the ass too recently it came out that Companies such as the General Motors Co., Honda Motor Co. Ltd., the Kia Corp. and more, have been using the data from connected cars to compile a behavioral profile of the driver and selling it to insurance companies. You think only EV's are susceptible to this shady shit? I at least trust Elon much more than I trust Kia, and GM. Maybe you should support Tesla and Elon as he is the only confirmed NON woke car maker.
You want to keep buying your shitty Ford's and Chevys from these woke shitbirds, go ahead. Do you honestly think that only EV's will be susceptible to the government being able to turn off your car, are you dumb? Every new ICE vehicle will also have the the ability to track your car, and turn off your car just like EV's will have if the shitstains in congress allow it.
No, it won't take multi millions to install all the charging stations needed worldwide because most people will be charging their EV's at home. Once EV batteries are improved to 400-500 miles of range charging on the road won't be needed barely at all.
Nobody should be required to drive an EV. The market should decide, and EV's will dominate the market once better batteries are here because they are superior to ICE vehicles in every way. Unfortunately we have a retarded pedophile in the White House trying to shove them down everyones' throats, and his faggot cabinet is too short sighted to see the battery tech isn't there yet.
#1: No need for insults-Did I say you were stupid for wanting an EV? You have a right to your opinion, as do I. #2: I do know that cars can be tracked; I believe I stated all newer cars with computer chips can be tracked. Insurance companies will give a discount if you sign up for their “Safe Driver” programs. #3: You keep saying in the future batteries will provide better mileage and be more efficient, that is hypothetical. We do not know for certain how the cars batteries will work in the future. #4: Currently the cars are expensive and EV’s rely on lithium batteries produced in China. #5: “In the future, you will charge your car from home.” True, but another expense for EV owners and once again uses electricity to charge, at what expense? #6: As far as I know, there is currently zero mechanism for recycling the expensive lithium batteries when they are defunct. #7: On one thing you are correct, people should have a choice: continue with gasoline powered cars, hybrids, EV’s, or perhaps another alternative in the future. Shoving the EV as mandatory down our throats is not choice in a republic. #8: There actually have been quite a few reports of chargers not working in the cold. I guess if you are in Florida, California, Hawaii or Texas that isn’t a problem. #9: EV’s are more expensive than gas powered cars. There is no environmental benefit. But there is a benefit to those invested in or owning stock in the EV market, if it is made mandatory that all vehicles sold by say 2030 are EV’s. One more thing. It always surprises me when individuals have to resort to insults during the attempt to “inform” someone. I hope it makes you feel you are very wise and informed. Enjoy your EV.
Sorry for insults, but I was already getting attacked on this thread for trying to clear up the misinformation that people were spewing about them. The sheer amount of misinformation that is being thrown around about them everywhere is maddening. They're getting hit from both sides because mainstream media wants to ruin Elon, destroy Tesla, and Twitter. Then Trump supporters are raging against them because the shitbirds in the Biden admin keep forcing them on people. I don't blame our side for hating them because of Biden but they're passing around misinformation about them and most people are upvoting bad information because they hate EV's thanks to leftist freaks and their communist climate change agenda.
I don't like EV's because I think they're better for the environment I like them because of their superior smooth acceleration, low maintenance, and advanced tech. I also hate going to the gas station, I'd rather charge at home. I used to drive an Audi that ate oil crazy, then one day the engine blew because of sludge in the Engine, thanks to poor design on a ICE vehicle that should never happen because it's had 100 years to perfect.
Better EV batteries are more than just hypothetical they're being diligently worked on, but they may not pan out the way I'm hoping they do. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think I am.
You can recycle batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ
EV owners in Norway have no problem charging and using their cars in the cold, Norway one of the coldest places has some of the highest adoption of EV's in the world. There are stories of the EV chargers not working in the cold that was blown up in the media like crazy because of hatred for Elon and Tesla. A few months ago I stopped at a gas station, and the pumps were broken, I almost ran out of gas trying to get to the next station. Should there be a national news story and outrage about it? Absolutely not, but when it happens to Tesla it becomes national news. People on here are losing their basic reasoning skills to rage against EV's, and it's disgusting.
Sorry for insulting you.
No apology needed. We all must stick together and consider each other’s opinions. Thank you for the info. regarding battery recycling. Only by listening to each other do we expand our learning and thinking. Have a great day! My best to you.
The big thing with these newer cars, especially the EV's is control. They can control your access to fuel them. Same can be said for gas and diesel, but not to the extent of electric cars. Add to that, some of the new car makers are also publishing your driving characteristics to the insurance companies.
https://tflcar.com/2024/03/connected-car-driver-information-sharing-insurance-companies-report/
The very first thing I would do with a new car is delete that uplink module - find the grey / black market hacks that disable it's functionality. In the interim, I will drive my old non connected car :-)
How many ways can you make gasoline? How many ways can you generally electric power?
Drive what you want. Your choice. But you should look back at what has happened in the last decade in batteries is more than what has changed in the last 150 years.
It’s fundamentally changing, is the EV the perfect answer for everyone? Nope. But for some it makes sense. Consider I have a 125 mile daily commute. With gas upwards of $3/gallon, EV may be a worthwhile choice
More of them remotely shutting it off because it's connected. I get the concept. I also get the concept of being off-grid with a power wall / power bank and generating your own energy. I am all for it will be doing that piece in the very near future. But the point of auto manufactures having full access to my car as it was legislated on ICE and electric cars, is concerning because I have less than zero faith in the government as proven over the past two or three years.
I know that Rich and other folks have gotten further down into the coding on Teslas, if there was a solution to turn off that access, I would feel more comfortable. I am sure you could unplug a module etc, I just do not know the downstream implications of that approach.
As far as battery tech, couldn't agree more. It's a great local solution and have zero issues with it. I build shit with 18650's and probably have a few thousand of them around the casa now. I am not adverse to the tech. I am adverse to the abilities of big brother causing loss of freedom.
P.S. Mixed fleet (I have a lot of vehicles) Both a mix of petrol and diesel. I have had grease (WVO) cars prior, so yes, I can produce a large enough volume if needed.
You are truly unique. I couldn’t make a drop of gasoline if my life depended upon it.
One of my poorer decisions was to not focus on SW. “You only write code once” was the worst advice I ever received and listened to. I am a HW electrical engineer, and have spent most of my life in R&D. Super Computing, to Servers to PC motherboards, now space. I admire Musk, and see inherent benefits to the EV from the reliability side. But control is a legitimate fear
I’m a Sucker for German Engineering. Audi /BMW: Benz
Brud braff
🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭
I hate to break it to him, but no one is buying the electric cars.
Weird, how "Tesla Model Y has surpassed Toyota’s RAV4 and Corolla models to top global sales rankings in the first quarter of 2023
Truly weird. I keep hearing about how electric cars aren't selling in the U.S.
Yea all the shitty ones built by the old car companies nobody wants. When electric cars are done right like the Tesla models, they're quite popular.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/14/january-2024-breaks-global-ev-sales-record-take-that-haters/
https://carboncredits.com/new-monthly-ev-sales-record-to-kickstart-2024/
"Although the rate of growth has slowed recently, EV demand is clearly moving in the right direction," a GM spokeswoman told NPR. Ford CEO Jim Farley told investors on Tuesday that "the journey on EVs is inevitable, in our eyes."
No one wants electric vehicles, though.
I sure don't.
What makes you think that? "Tesla Model Y has surpassed Toyota’s RAV4 and Corolla models to top global sales rankings in the first quarter of 2023"
Because Model Y debuted in China in late 2022 and was used as a social counter against Japanese auto sales (that have always been discouraged by the CCP). Over a third of the sales that JATO counts for all of 2023 are to Chinese markets.
The latter half of 2023 saw a very marked increase in China assaulting western products at market. Expect that position to falter as a result.
Additionally, individual model sales tracking only really became a "news item" when it started to benefit EVs "being close" to beating the traditional OEMs. And thats how all the news articles are written about the Y. Its "upset" the market or caused a "seismic shift" in the auto industry.
But look at total gas/diesel sales vs EV sales and suddenly the real story emerges: EVs are a niche market, often supported by government fleet orders.
Funny how cutting the data until the narrative the paper wants to reach just works out every time.
You're comparing EV's to the total sale of gas/diesel now? That's not even a far comparison at all. Tesla's are the only EV's worth buying, and they outsold a very popular vehicle that's almost half it's cost. You think Tesla EV's are a niche? They were outselling Corolla's even tho they're half the cost. Wait until Tesla puts out a cheaper EV right in the same price range as a Toyota Corolla with 350 miles of range. That will not be a niche market, no matter how bad you want it to be. They're insanely popular because they offer many advantages over gas vehicles.
What advantages do they offer?
And it is fair, because EVs are a niche. Heralding the doom of the gasoline industry because one EV is finally in the price range of a fully loaded SUV sounds a lot like the Year of the Linux Desktop, but for cars.
And the only way they get Corolla-level cheap on EVs right now is through even more government subsidy. So I have to pay for your delusions.
Ok pay me for my delusions. Electric drivetrains are far superior to ICE vehicles almost every way except the batteries, the batteries suck, but better battery tech is coming. Once better battery tech is here there is nothing keeping EV's from dominating the market. Electric drivetrains require less maintenance, do not require over complicated transmissions, they're faster, and incredibly more reliable than an ICE engine. Sending electricity over wires is far more efficient, and safe than filling up giant tanks with flammable liquid and driving them across the country, or sailing them across the ocean.
They're also quieter, and way more convenient than ICE vehicles.
You're just like the guy who refused to accept ICE vehicles in the 1900's, and kept riding around in a horse and buggy. At first he probably thought ICE vehicles were just a niche, and no way could they have fill up stations built, and he would be stuck, and his ol' trusty horse just needed a few carrots to keep going. You're the one being delusional if you can't see that EV's will dominate the market some day, when better battery tech comes around.
Unfortunately the Pedophile piece of trash in the White House, and his retarded cabinet with their short sighted tunnel vision were unable to let the market decide on EV's and tried to push them everyone, so now people like you are raging against EV's when you shouldn't be, because they are superior for daily driving to ICE vehicles.
"Ok pay me for my delusions." No.
"Electric drivetrains are far superior to ICE vehicles almost every way except the batteries." And what ways are those?
"The batteries suck" Yes, they do. For the same reasons that you talk about flammable liquids. Condensing a massive amount of energy to a small space is inherently dangerous. You can't avoid this by preferring one explosion to another.
"better battery tech is coming." As said by the battery industry for 40 years, and while they have made progress it's not going to happrn soon.
"Once better battery tech is here there is nothing keeping EV's from dominating the market." Uh huh. Then let it dominate the market without subsidy when that pipe dream becomes a reality.
"Electric drivetrains require less maintenance" No, they don't. How often do you have to maintain a transmission in your vehicle? Every 80,000 miles? Versus about 100,000 for the drive motors? Yeah, so much less maintenance.
"do not require over complicated transmissions" Build a transmission, then build four drive motors. I'll wait for your eyes to open.
"they're faster" In comparison to what? The strangled 4 cylinders you pay for in a $15,000 vehicle or a 6-8 cylinder you can get at the same price point?
"Incredibly more reliable than an ICE engine" ICE engines operate for millions of miles. The recent spate of unreliability is because of government fuckery.
"Sending electricity over wires is far more efficient" Not when counted properly. An ICE is far more efficient at generating electricity and delivering it locally than it is to generate it at a power plant, converted to AC, send it long distance to your home, convert it to DC, and then charge your battery.
"safe than filling up giant tanks with flammable liquid" This is just wrong. Not only do batteries contain explosive liquids, but you are artificially holding back a massive electrical arc. Any damage and it's like you're back driving a ford pinto with a gas tank next to the rear bumper. And electrical fires are much harder to put out than gasoline fires.
"and driving them across the country, or sailing them across the ocean" How does your intended purpose matter?
"They're also quieter" True
"and way more convenient than ICE vehicles." How are they "more convenient"?
"You're just like the guy who refused to accept ICE vehicles in the 1900's...." You're just the guy who hopped on the steam engine vehicle and ignored the problems others see with them becuase you just know, deep down, that you can't be wrong.
"Unfortunately the Pedophile piece of trash in the White House, and his retarded cabinet with their short sighted tunnel vision were unable to let the market decide on EV's and tried to push them everyone, so now people like you are raging against EV's when you shouldn't be, because they are superior for daily driving to ICE vehicles." People like you have been brainwashed by the pedophile pieces of trash over the last 20 years to think that EVs are some kind of competitor. It doesn't matter that people like me have taken government money to convert fleets to electric and know first hand all the bullshit surrounding them and what they can actually do and can't actually do.
They have a suitable niche, but it's not the end of ICE in any way shape or form -- unless the government forces it. And their reasons for forcing it are obvious.
Fallacy in our opening statement. You may not want one, and that's your right. But although the rate of increase has slowed, EV cars are still gaining in sales. For a cross country and remote area; ICE has some huge advantages.
There are Tesla Model 3's out there with 1 Million miles on them. It all depends on what your use model is. Not everyone wants or needs a pickup, SUV or sedan. It all depends.
Fallacy in your argument: Anecdotes don't counter numbers.
There are Toyota Corollas out there that have 2 million miles! Therefore....nothing. It's a pointless detail to throw out.
Slicing the numbers down to individual models was a financial review of wins/loses with shareholders until about 15-20 years ago, when it was the only way to even get the EVs to show on charts - and everyone was desperate to present the narrative that there was no downside to EVs.
Total gas/diesel vs EV sales show that EVs are still a niche market with the larger influx of sales being to counter social issues the last few years. A small example of this would be Ford built a 55/45 EV/Gas mix of Mavericks in their first production run. Actual demand via preorders was the opposite, about 60% Gas vs 40%. They still sold the EVs because people were desperate for vehicles and the production of their pre-orders preferences was delayed by all the covid hoopla. That was an artificial depression of gasoline sales and artificial inflation of ev sales. But EV sales were still heralded as highest evAr with no investigation of the whys.
This is an area where you need to watch for the games being played by governments and corporations getting bank from governments to cheerlead the EV for their own benefit.
When EV's make sense; they won't require any Gov't incentives. People will buy them (or not) based on the financials (cost of ownership, maintenance, cost to drive and convenience).
That said, ICE needs to re-think their approach to modern tech and manufacturing if they want to stay competitive.
Most of the fallacies of ICE engines already exist in an EV. They are there by government mandate. Its why engines are getting smaller and more prone to break down.
As usual the chinese auto makers are using predatory pricing with the advantage of slave labour wages to try to cripple the north american auto industry. I will stick with my gasoline vehicle. I would’t touch an EV, THEY ARE THE DIRTIEST VEHICLES EVER MADE! 3.82 million barrels of oil equivalent energy to make 1 EV battery pack for a tesla.
This bit of truth needs to be spoken much more loudly to the general public. Also the cost of charging them is never really taken into account. If you have your own charger at home, your electric bill would be skyrocketing and your risk for a house fire is exponentially higher. Then the cost of replacing the battery when it no longer charges properly...
You may want to break out the calculator on this. At home, and at night, the EV will charge based on your utility costs. If you have solar roof, then it’s essentially “free”
Compare a 250 mile battery with your gas tank. It’s about half the cost of gasoline. It all comes from your bank- do you pay electric company or Exxon?
I'd sure hate to broad-side one of those cheap chink ev's with one of my 1 tons.
It may scrape the chrome off my bull-bar....
I will always have and drive a gas guzzling shitbox.
No one will buy them. You can't "fill your tank" without waiting for hours, so no long trips. They are limited and impractical.
If you drop $30k on an EV but won’t spend $1k to put in a home charge (220Vac); nobody can help you
The auto industry needs to compete if they want to stop this.
Just a few years ago you could get a new Nissan Versa for about 11k, even something like a new Miata was 25k, you could get an F150 for 25k.
MSRP on that versa is 16k right now, any minor features take it to 20k. That is Nissan's lowest tier offering.
Puts it all in perspective
Elon has made some VERY aggressive design decisions.
Your car likely has as a seat made by Company A, Environmental Controls by Company B, Transmission by Company C, Infotainment by Company D, Enginine controller by Company E -et. ad nausium. Firmware updates require "buy in" from each component the firmware touches, which translates to poor, if ever SW firmware upgrades.
Everything in a Tesla, is made by and for Tesla. Firmware updates are regular, meaningful, and improve as time goes by
Your car likely has large sections that are bolted, welded, or otherwise permanently attached. These pieces are expensive to make, repair and maintain.
Tesla makes HUGE molds, where a single cast part can replace it's comparative component that has up to several hundred process steps built into it.
China is going to have to do the same sort of thing - which means that the way Detroit and other cars have been building cars for decades; will fundamentally change, at the grassroots level.
Doesn't matter if this is ICE or EV; these are fundamental design and assembly changes.
Good info to know. However, when only one company controls the entire car, you've got a monopoly situation. Depending upon the manufacturer, this could be bad or this could be good. I always think a little competition makes everyone try harder to give a good product for a reasonable price.
No disagreement at all
But the mass production steps Musk has implemented are utterly going to destroy his competition
Forget EV point of view (realize it’s YouTube) but the steps he has taken and invested in give him an amazing competitive jump over everyone
https://youtu.be/BuyjTvZ6w1g?si=v4kho0mLwTaRLovr
Just watched that. Very impressive. Makes me admire Elon even more!
I don’t think people appreciate how radically Elon has changed the automotive industry
EV and batteries aside; his next steps are amazing. Paint car front, rear and middle pieces, install seats and dashboard BEFORE assembling the car