oooph... this is a tough one. I hate it when people burn the flag, too, and I want them exited from our country. But, it's freedom of speech... and making this offense punishable by a year in jail could lead to a slippery slope, and the Principle of Freedom becomes a principle akin to freedom.
Makes me wonder if this is some sort of ploy just to get the tards to explode.
I disagree. If burning any flag of any country or organization considered hate speech, the same goes for the American flag. Either apply the law equally or not at all
There is no such thing as hate speech laws in America. If someone goes to jail for burning other flags, you fight those laws. You don't expand them to include things you don't like too.
Is it freedom of speech? The burning flag is not speaking. It is arson. And hate. If they arrest people for tire marks on a gay fag rainbow painted on a street, burning a flag should be worse.
Arson is when you burn something that belongs to someone else. Hate is not something you can regulate in America. If someone wants to buy a flag and burn it, that's their right. Same if they want to buy a Bible or a Koran or Book of Mormon or Origin of Species and burn one of them.
You have every right to destroy your own property, for whatever reason you choose, including, making a political point.
Public nuisance, nah. Nice try. We have a right to protest in public as long as it doesn't cause physical harm to others or their property.
Threat to public safety, possibly.
Polluting air? Maybe depending on the local laws.
Damage to public infrastructure by burning a flag? Pretty sure pavement withstands 4th of the July fireworks just fine and not different here.
Obstructing traffic? Yeah if they do it while obstructing traffic.
But if you can prove that these charges are being tossed about as a way to discourage the free exercise of speech by burning a flag, they'll be rightfully tossed out.
I think the Supreme Court has already spoken on this. But I don't think there's anything unconstitutional with charging them with felony arson, since they're starting fires without permits in public places.
speech
noun
ˈspēch
Synonyms of speech
1
a
: the communication or expression of thoughts in spoken words
b
: exchange of spoken words : CONVERSATION
2
a
: something that is spoken : UTTERANCE
b
: a usually public discourse : ADDRESS
3
a
: LANGUAGE, DIALECT
b
: an individual manner or style of speaking
4
: the power of expressing or communicating thoughts by speaking
No, Henry, the societal problem that this conversation is highlighting is our abysmal public education system, of which you are clearly a product.
The concept of "freedom of speech" including more than just mouth sounds has been around since well before the founding of our country. In fact, it has its roots in the Magna Carta, but was really fleshed out during the Enlightenment.
Try reading the Federalist Papers - they give great insight into why the Founders did things the way they did, and what their views on government were, and what their own concept of "freedom of speech" was. Then you will see that it wasn't "mean men in black robes" that expanded the First Amendment to include other forms of expression, rather it's been that way for centuries.
So why are you trying to change the definition now? Why are you trying to restrict the freedoms of American citizens by allowing government to restrict any expression that isn't mouth sounds? Whose side are you on??
My right to burn the flag in protest is protected under the first amendment. If Trump loses and things go the way of communism with the grocery price caps or if full blown WWIII busts out obviously to keep the war money machine with trafficking etc. going you could very well find me burning the flag in protest. I'm not actually saying I would do this personally, but my right to do so is protected under the constitution. Bit of a misstep here in my opinion... or something sent out in haste not thought about from enough angles. Regardless... NCSWIC!
Flag burning is symbolic of the goals of the communist party to overthrow the USA. Thus, persons engaging in that activity are acting as agents of the communist party, and have no rights under the laws of the USA, including freedom of speech.
AND these flag burners should understand that there will be those who disagree with said burning and try to stop it.
There may be some accidental injuries of those involved.
There's already laws on the books if they want to apply them anytime you burn something in public freedom of speech or not it's arson. A couple years ago my 12 and 13 year old kids were charged with arson for burning a pizza box in the alley behind my house of course at their age they got to slap on the wrist but they got probation had to sit with the fire department for a day and wash the fire trucks as a punishment
Nope. Trump isn't stupid. He knows that's covered by the first amendment. Guys, doesn't matter if we like something or not. If it's protected we should all protect it.
It costs 40-60k to keep someone in jail a year, That money comes from taxpayers.
Hard pass.
Buy an island to drop them and others like them off on for a year or find some shithole country that will take them to be a socialist worker for a year.
If and when they return they will actually appreciate living here.
Burning the flag is protected speech. I will make exceptions for foreign nationals.
Therefore, I propose a wave of patriotism wherein
A) All illegal invaders are evicted from our nation
B) Any foreign national here legally who burns the US flag has their visa immediately revoked as a subversive, no appeal.
and
C) Anyone who dares to burn a US flag in public should get a royal beating by any citizens nearby, though I would find pine tar and feathers along with being ridden out of town on a rail equally acceptable
If you don't love my Constitution you are free to leave my nation.
I'm ok with it being legal to burn the flag; people who do so can be "punished" by creating a bad reputation for themselves though? Kind of like how Bud Light got boycotted and lost billions? So we can both have the freedom, and "penalties" of sorts?
I think if you burn the American flag; which means you hate America, then you shouldn't have any problems with mandatory exportation out of the country.
If you want to buy your own faggot flag and burn it to make a political point, you should be able to, just like the American flag. It's protected speech. Once these cases make their way to SCOTUS, "hate based" rulings will be overturned, and money will be paid out for the infringement of rights.
Just don't burn someone else's property. It's pretty simple. We're allowed to offend each other in this country. We're not allowed to steal and destroy each others' property.
oooph... this is a tough one. I hate it when people burn the flag, too, and I want them exited from our country. But, it's freedom of speech... and making this offense punishable by a year in jail could lead to a slippery slope, and the Principle of Freedom becomes a principle akin to freedom.
Makes me wonder if this is some sort of ploy just to get the tards to explode.
I disagree. If burning any flag of any country or organization considered hate speech, the same goes for the American flag. Either apply the law equally or not at all
You're assuming I even agree with there being such a thing as hate speech. Look at the slippery slope THAT led to.
Hate crimes are a fraud upon the people.
Crimes are written to provide justice for harms brought about by another party. And that protection should apply to all people equally.
The motive behind the crime is irrelevant.
There is no such thing as hate speech laws in America. If someone goes to jail for burning other flags, you fight those laws. You don't expand them to include things you don't like too.
There should be no hate speech laws.
Is it freedom of speech? The burning flag is not speaking. It is arson. And hate. If they arrest people for tire marks on a gay fag rainbow painted on a street, burning a flag should be worse.
Arson is when you burn something that belongs to someone else. Hate is not something you can regulate in America. If someone wants to buy a flag and burn it, that's their right. Same if they want to buy a Bible or a Koran or Book of Mormon or Origin of Species and burn one of them.
You have every right to destroy your own property, for whatever reason you choose, including, making a political point.
Exactly
Ok. Setting an item ablaze in public is arson. Cut and dry. Simple. Illegal.
Public nuisance. Threat to public safety. Polluting air. Damage to public infrastructure, pavement, etc. Obstructing traffic.
Arrest them for those offenses.
Not arson. If it belongs to you, it's not arson.
Public nuisance, nah. Nice try. We have a right to protest in public as long as it doesn't cause physical harm to others or their property.
Threat to public safety, possibly.
Polluting air? Maybe depending on the local laws.
Damage to public infrastructure by burning a flag? Pretty sure pavement withstands 4th of the July fireworks just fine and not different here.
Obstructing traffic? Yeah if they do it while obstructing traffic.
But if you can prove that these charges are being tossed about as a way to discourage the free exercise of speech by burning a flag, they'll be rightfully tossed out.
Hopefully you're never homeless and burning things in a barrel to keep warm.
Just curious what your thoughts would be about putting a US flag into a giant shredder at a protest.
As long as the protestor was securely connected to the flag and it drags themselves through the wood chipper…approved.
I should have worded my post similar to yours. Maybe I wouldn't have 6 minus points if I had.
I think the Supreme Court has already spoken on this. But I don't think there's anything unconstitutional with charging them with felony arson, since they're starting fires without permits in public places.
People are not speaking when they're burning the flag. Have you ever seen a person speaking at a podium and burning the flag at the same time?
"Speech" encompasses far more than making sounds with your mouth. Quit being retarded.
Daniel begs to differ:
Well there’s your problem - you’re using a standard dictionary for legal terms. Try a law dictionary.
There’s the societal problem. Changing definitions for politically appointed politically acting people in black robes to fuck over the citizens.
No, Henry, the societal problem that this conversation is highlighting is our abysmal public education system, of which you are clearly a product.
The concept of "freedom of speech" including more than just mouth sounds has been around since well before the founding of our country. In fact, it has its roots in the Magna Carta, but was really fleshed out during the Enlightenment.
Try reading the Federalist Papers - they give great insight into why the Founders did things the way they did, and what their views on government were, and what their own concept of "freedom of speech" was. Then you will see that it wasn't "mean men in black robes" that expanded the First Amendment to include other forms of expression, rather it's been that way for centuries.
So why are you trying to change the definition now? Why are you trying to restrict the freedoms of American citizens by allowing government to restrict any expression that isn't mouth sounds? Whose side are you on??
enter text
Have you seen money gushing out of people's mouths when they talk?
The Supreme Court has ruled that donations are a form of political speech. Thus, your actions hold the same weight as your spoken words.
Speech takes many forms. Not just speaking. You can burn your own flag legally in this country no matter what colors or patterns are found on it.
My right to burn the flag in protest is protected under the first amendment. If Trump loses and things go the way of communism with the grocery price caps or if full blown WWIII busts out obviously to keep the war money machine with trafficking etc. going you could very well find me burning the flag in protest. I'm not actually saying I would do this personally, but my right to do so is protected under the constitution. Bit of a misstep here in my opinion... or something sent out in haste not thought about from enough angles. Regardless... NCSWIC!
Correct. As it should be.
This is dumb shit that he needs to not talk about. Focus on economy border and crime. Notice he don't talk about fixing the food
We don't need a new law to stop flag burning. Enforce the Communist Control Act! https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/chapter23/subchapter4&edition=prelim
Flag burning is symbolic of the goals of the communist party to overthrow the USA. Thus, persons engaging in that activity are acting as agents of the communist party, and have no rights under the laws of the USA, including freedom of speech.
Red meat for the base.
There are far more important issues for 47 to focus on.
There should not be laws banning flag burning.
AND these flag burners should understand that there will be those who disagree with said burning and try to stop it. There may be some accidental injuries of those involved.
There's already laws on the books if they want to apply them anytime you burn something in public freedom of speech or not it's arson. A couple years ago my 12 and 13 year old kids were charged with arson for burning a pizza box in the alley behind my house of course at their age they got to slap on the wrist but they got probation had to sit with the fire department for a day and wash the fire trucks as a punishment
This prob some 5D chess
Free speech is free speech.
Yes. He's putting this out as bait to get the left to ponder the constitution for the first time in their lives.
Nope. Trump isn't stupid. He knows that's covered by the first amendment. Guys, doesn't matter if we like something or not. If it's protected we should all protect it.
It costs 40-60k to keep someone in jail a year, That money comes from taxpayers.
Hard pass.
Buy an island to drop them and others like them off on for a year or find some shithole country that will take them to be a socialist worker for a year.
If and when they return they will actually appreciate living here.
I like the island idea. Let the strongest survive.
Hence why Australia was the destination of British criminals.
If not for burning the flag then for ARSON. there is no 1st amendment protection for Arson.
Too many American lives fought for that flag. I'm a freedom of speech proponent but the flag symbolizes a lot more than that.
Burning the flag is protected speech. I will make exceptions for foreign nationals.
Therefore, I propose a wave of patriotism wherein
A) All illegal invaders are evicted from our nation
B) Any foreign national here legally who burns the US flag has their visa immediately revoked as a subversive, no appeal.
and
C) Anyone who dares to burn a US flag in public should get a royal beating by any citizens nearby, though I would find pine tar and feathers along with being ridden out of town on a rail equally acceptable
If you don't love my Constitution you are free to leave my nation.
Obviously C) is optional, and written in anger.
Things you'll never hear at any Democrat anything...
USA USA USA chants
I'm ok with it being legal to burn the flag; people who do so can be "punished" by creating a bad reputation for themselves though? Kind of like how Bud Light got boycotted and lost billions? So we can both have the freedom, and "penalties" of sorts?
u/#q3689
I think if you burn the American flag; which means you hate America, then you shouldn't have any problems with mandatory exportation out of the country.
Bingo. Trump set this statement up as a trap.
You can burn and piss on an American flag no problem, but burn and piss on the faggot flag, you get charged with a "hate crime".
If you want to buy your own faggot flag and burn it to make a political point, you should be able to, just like the American flag. It's protected speech. Once these cases make their way to SCOTUS, "hate based" rulings will be overturned, and money will be paid out for the infringement of rights.
Just don't burn someone else's property. It's pretty simple. We're allowed to offend each other in this country. We're not allowed to steal and destroy each others' property.
Don't make tax payers float the bill, Just take away their citizenship and kick them out of the country
Pretty smart move. The media will freak out and show his post about the Democrats tearing down Chicago and burning flags
Burn a flag, earn a black eye???/
Disgraceful, yes, but what happens when Congress decides you should also get 1 year in prison for burning the Koran?