I just want to get a reading on this controversial subject of abortion. Who here (like me) supports pro-choice for the simple fact that they believe in body autonamy when it comes to vaccines and masks? No government should have the right to tell you and me what to put in our body or put on our body. PERIOD. These mandates are unconstitutional against our civil and human rights to be free Americans, they're trying to erode that right now. But in the same breath, no government should have the right to tell women what they can't take out of their body. PERIOD.
The moment the baby detaches from the body is when the baby is their own person, as long as the baby is attached to the person, that person decides what happens because it is THEIR BODY. Is that not reasonable? Everyone here agree that government should stay the fuck out of our lives? I hope so. If not then that's your choice I guess if you want to be a government simp.
I believe in bodily autonomy, and the baby has it as well.
This. A woman who has an abortion is a murderer, and deserves to be treated as such.
I'm 100% for the child's life and future.
We all know by now how babies are made. If you get pregnant because of your lack of protection [barring those rare occasions that make a successful pregnancy nonviable] the burden of the pregnancy is the price you pay.
Afterward, relinquish the baby to someone who will cherish them and love them.
A woman's concerns over her future prospects DO NOT superceed the child's right to life.
Ever...even in rape and incest.
If God saw fit to allow life...we are bound to honor what God calls good.
He makes no mistakes.
If the unborn are human, you don't get to kill them. No matter what the reason and no matter how small they are.
The unborn are Human, therefor you shouldn't get to kill them.
"Fetus" = Very very small human
"Abortion" is the lefts attempt to reword "murder" and make it sound less serious.
Like the man has nothing to do with it. Piss off with yourself. The baby, from the moment of conception is a being created of a man, a woman and God Almighty. He knew you BEFORE you were made. If you aren't prepared to accept the responsibility, then put a sock on it.
As far as an intrusive government? We already have laws against murder, which exactly what abortion is.
Nope.
True science says it's a teeny weeny human.
God said it 1st, though.
And premeditated murder is wrong.
If a woman wants to abort their baby no matter what period of time, she should be able to, and the government should have zero say on her decision. Maybe one day there will be an option to remove babies but keep them alive via machine so they are born out of the womb. I'm sure that will be possible soon. But I stand firm on freedom of choice, especially now when the government is trying to insert itself in my health decisions being anti-mask and anti-vax.. they can fuck right off.
Is the neighbor attached to your body physically and are you providing your neighbor sustenance, keeping your neighbor alive and housed inside your body? This argument can't hold water.
It's her body, she decides if she wants me OUT of her body. That is her choice, I have no say. Morally wrong? Yes. But absolutely no one can decide for her what to do with me, NO ONE, especially the government.
What a fucking stupid argument. Are you honestly arguing that laws and morality are not connected? It is the sole reason we have laws is because morality exists. My toddler is 2, he cannot live on his own, he can't afford food, he cant buy a blanket to keep himself warm, nor a roof over his head. He doesn't even know where to get more water from if he's thirsty, because he's not even 2. (Check my history, you will see my TruthSocial, with an up to date picture of my family).
Can I just kick him out of my house because he's "inconvenient" into the woods where his death is imminent? That is actual child abuse, so is "abortion" aka, murder.
If my wife annoys me, can I kill her in her sleep because she isn't sentient? That's what happens when you "abort" the pregnancy. The baby DIES, then shred the baby apart to remove its arms and legs and head and torso from the womens body. They dismember a human from another human.
Do you have kids of your own? I hope and pray to God that you will never have children until you unfuck yourself.
Edit: Added: You don't deserved the privilege.
Freedom of choice is fine but getting impregnated is the only choice you make. You know there are consequences to actions you take. Karma is cause and effect, but you are free to make that choice -That's the freedom part. Conceiving a baby is the result of that choice. You have to live with the choices you make. Murdering an unborn child limits that child's freedom and the choice that child would make to live or die. Thus it is immoral. The government should have Zero say over that child's voice as well. Especially before they learn to use it.
"I mean, why can't I have the freedom to kill off the neighbors on my block, kill off the drug dealer, the gangsters, etc. It's my freedom, am I right?"
"No, no, I only want to kill the unborn, because they put up less fight than a grandma on crutches."
What a pathetic cuck. There's no way this is a real poster. Paid shill/actor.
Regardless, there is sound reason to be pro-life that isn't necessarily a Christian reason. Which aggravates these godless bastards to no end.
Lay off the DMT, prob what let your demon in.
Hallucinogens do that...especially to the secular and weak of mind and spirit.... ...those with unseeing eyes and unhearing ears.
One of my favorite and most hurt patients was a child conceived by rape.
She held on pretty well, but the #1 thing that would break her if she thought about it was...
" So many people think I should have been killed."
She would not watch tv/news/etc because of pro-choice b.s.
The choice was made before conception.
People don't think past themselves on these issues.
You seem to be minimizing abortion down to whether or not gov should stay the fuck out of our lives.
True, gov should stfo.
Killing a baby is killing a baby and is murder and therefore a crime.
So, how about the gov stfo of our lives, but if you murder a bhb (bayby human being) then you go to jail? How's that?
I think I fixed your stupid logic with slightly less stupid logic.
Body autonomy should be acceptable as long as there is only one body involved. The second body (unborn child) has completely new DNA, heart and brain. The clump of cells idea doesn't hold water either. All humans are a clump of cells.
“ No government should have the right to tell me what to put in our body…” becomes the baby is a parasite until “…the baby detaches and becomes its own person.”
False equivalency argument. 🙄
A woman’s body is a “host” until the child is born. If I force you to come and stay at my house, I don’t have the right to kill you because you are/become inconvenient.
“If not then that's your choice I guess if you want to be a government simp.” Blatant manipulation…lol.
Well put. Thank you mud.
“These people are stupid.” Q.
Can you provide evidence to support this assertion? Why is the separation the "moment of life"? You can take a child out of the body far earlier than the normal birth and it will likely survive. In fact you can take the fertilized egg, before it has ever even divided once, and let it grow into a complete human in an artificial womb without ever touching a woman's body. Is that person less of a person than one who was birthed "normally"? At what point would killing that artificial womb child be "murder" or "not murder"? It could be taken out of that womb at probably five months and put into an open incubator (like other premee's) and it would survive just fine. Would it be not murder the second before being taken out of the artificial womb, but murder the second after?
Why are you determining the child's moment of "right to live?"
I agree that it is not clear when a person becomes a person, i.e. if or when it gain's "a soul." I think it is a topic worthy of exploration. Perhaps one of the greatest explorations imaginable. It is at conception? Is it when there's a heartbeat? Does it take a certain level of neural development? What is that level of development? So many questions, and a lot of confusion. But in the confusion, you can justify anything. Just because the answer isn't clear doesn't mean the question isn't relevant.
By every possible measure a child is a person. The biggest question is, when does the child become a person? And when does killing the child become murder. Is it one of the stages above? Is it perhaps when the child could live on its own? A child can't survive on it's own, even theoretically (Tarzan e.g.) before at least... I don't know, maybe 8? Is a child not a person until they are 8? Should destroying a child up to age 8 be legal because they can't survive on their own?
Most people will die in a few days if transplanted into the wilderness, so it's safe to say they can't survive on their own either. Would killing one of those people, regardless of their age, not be murder?
You are conflating a "woman's life' with a "child's life". They are not the same life. If you think they are, provide evidence to support it.
Too antagonistic.
I once thought similarly to what you’re saying, but now I see it in another frame. People aren’t simping for the government, they are making sure that The Law is presentable before the eyes of God. ProLifers realize that people might still get back alley abortions, but if they’re illegal, then satan doesn’t get the same juice as he would if the killing was condoned by the law of the land and by the people. The cult of moloch wants people to consent to sacrificing babies, and abortion bans ruin the consent.
I disagree 100%
I decided that I will only give my viewpoint to another person who has had an abortion. I won't discuss the hell I have been through ever since I was so blatantly lied to by the clinic where I allowed myself to be "free to choose" to have the arms and legs ripped away from a tiny torso. My body my.choice masks/vaxc yes...my right to murder...bullshit!!
((hugs)) I hope you find peace and forgiveness. Maybe this song from Kathy Troccoli will help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R68JF-zAqj8
https://genius.com/Kathy-troccoli-a-babys-prayer-lyrics
Ah, sorry fren. I know many women who have been haunted by that choice.
I am pro-choice but I'm not against the new ruling - State issues should be addressed at a regional and state level.
I think there's an major difference between the pro- life/choice issue and the decision to vaccinate or mask yourself, enough so that they're unrelated and have no business being presented as similar arguments. You can disagree, of course, but this is my opinion.
Pro- live/choice issue: I consider your argument unreasonable. We are discussing a life (the baby) sustained-yet-separate from the mother. Both the mother and the baby have individual rights, no matter how far along that baby is in the development process, inside or outside of the body. The mother is integral to this conversation, yes, but the life of the baby is sacred and termination of a baby should only be in consideration in very rare circumstances, such as if the life (not the quality of life) of the mother is in question.
To argue that a baby who is detached from the mother's body is their own person is spurious, in that you need to define what "their own person" means. In terms of mental development and dependency, a baby can be argued "not their own person" until they reach legal adulthood. A coma patient can be argued not "their own person" because they show no brain activity, but we don't arbitrarily abort/unplug them because of it. As this becomes an argument of legal minutiae, I would avoid this kind of argument, OP.
Vaccination or masking issue: No other life is included other than the sovereignty of the individual who is masking or receiving vaccination upon their own volition. The individual should have the choice whether or not to undertake the medical procedure without coercion.
To both ends, in any case, these issues should be worked out by the States.
A child's rights don't end when you become inconvenienced. If you don't want to have a child then don't have sex, it's that simple
Vaccine mandates aren't a state issue either, it's a constituional issue and it's unconstitutional everywhere in the US.
It has NO place ANYWHERE in this country.
IDK, blue states are welcome to keep legalized abortion and likely will. If it keeps a democRAT out of my state because of our abortion laws, then so be it.
What about the baby's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How can they enjoy that if their tiny body is destroyed?
Abortion only seems morally grounded when the woman's life is in danger from childbirth. I don't see any moral grounds for killing an unborn child unless the woman's life is in jeopardy.
Yeah in this case it's the woman's choice, if she wants to make the ultimate sacrifice no one would stop her. I'm not suggesting the state intervene to force the woman to terminate if she is in danger, but if a woman chooses to live they shouldn't force her to give birth and die.
Too many whores with no values now days. If you want to slut around use protection. & fuck the federal government, this should always have been the state's decision. Also taking an innocent life doesn't come without consequence.
Cant kill a baby, no matter how young it is
Your right to bodily autonomy does not grant you the right to kill a pre-born child any more than a landlord can murder a tenant to get him out of his building.
That argument is so lame. Are the tenants physically attached to the landlord and is the landlord providing the tenant food via their internal framework? No. That is a ridiculous comparison.
I feel like abortion should come with a sterilization penalty.
It's worth discussing. But regardless, Roe v Wade was always bad law and overreach by the court and should be overturned.
So for those that agree the government does have a right to tell you what to keep in your body, you also agree that the government has a right to tell you what to put in your body, put on your body, etc.
You indirectly support mandatory vaccinations and mandatory masks.. because you feel the government can decide what happens to your body.
You put other's lives in front of your own, so you will shoot yourself with poison vaccines and suffocate yourself with microplastic masks "for the greater good of others"... your health be damned. You will obey the government and be forced to give birth to a child because it's "for the greater good" of the baby. Fine.
You are no better than the collectivists you claim to hate, the liberal clowns that call you a selfish piece of shit because you didn't take big pharma's mRNA poison because "muh gramma". Carry on.
Naw, I'm not going to join the debate. I'm happy keeping my views on this topic between myself and God.
States can decide.