This is not small. This sets a HUGE precedent for the "subscription model" in numerous other industries. While it isn't a court filing...just an agreement...it still sets the baseline for the ability for consumers to own the products they purchase.
John Deere went a bridge too far, and it burned them.
About 20 years ago, there was a conversation I was privy to about how the Top Brass at BMW and Mercedes wanted to put Locks on their Hoods so nobody but their onw Techs were able to open them and work on them....
The Idea was to have a Captured Clientele, a Captured audience if you will, and from that, a 100% reliable Captured Residual Income....
Which is exactly what they depend upon, Residual Income from parts intentionally designed to break within a certain amount of time, and if you cannot Duplicate it, or find an aftermarket copy, you're forced to buy it from the dealer, and that's at a hefty price....
Yep, it's why I have an Android and use PCs over Macs. Neither are perfect options of course, but are FAR better and more open ecosystems than the Apple's "walled garden". Cheaper too.
Grifting on parts is a common business strategy. Sell your equipment at or slightly below cost, but make it up by the ton in part sales. Service agreements are even better.
But that isn’t the main issue. You should see how many people have sued John Deere over modified tractors that malfunctioned. And they tried to blame the manufacturer for the defect. These are very costly to litigate; even more so if they lose. Whether equipment was modified and/or whether the modification caused the injury or a manufacturing defect caused it is an issue of fact for a jury to find. You can’t easily punt those cases in summary judgment.
This is a HUGE win. My family farms and I would NEVER buy a Deere. All these country songs singing praised about John Deere always ticked me off. It s like Deere was paying Nashville. Even with this win, I still don't think I'll buy a John Deere because they tried to screw over the very people they claim to help. I'll keep watching this and see where it goes, but I still very much have a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm still partial to my family's Massey Fergusons and my favorite, the Allis Chalmers D15. Hell we still have an old Minneapolis-Moline sitting around!
"Old but fixable" will always beat "new but not fixable".
I think it is intentional to make these machines so intricate that only techs can work on them, thus the farmer will be forced to pay all of their profits from the harvesting of their crops to fix a machine that shouldn't fail for years.
Not only Green, but Red and Yellow have these faults. They really need to dumb down the machines so a farmer can easily work on it. Yea, sure, some bells and whistles would be deleted, but at least a weekend mechanic could change out parts when necessary. Plus why use only Green parts when an O'reilly or AutoZone pulley or belt might work?
I'll give Biden a pat on the back for his persuring a fix for this national problem.
Yeah, Lon Horiuchi killed Vicki Weaver while she was holding her newborn. I was talking about refusing to consume products. I really don't know much, but I never heard anything about not using something.
Yep. Like the Amish have a great market on 1900 turn of the century discs and harrows. I understand why it might be nice to have a tractor guided by GPS, but why pay half a million bucks for that tractor when you can do your own seeding with a used tractor with no GPS and still get the same production? If it were me starting out as a farmer I'd go to autions and purchase all the 1950's tractors and combines I needed to plant and harvest my crops. Sure I might have to make a few more passes in the fields because my headers isn't 100' across, but I'd still get all the crops in. Then my profits would be higher because I wouldn't have to be paying a larger mortgage on a $.5M combine. I guess some farmers want the latest and greatest. I'd be happy with having enough money set aside after the selling of the crops to keep my family fed and a roof over their heads.
Someone should do that with cars: simple, few frills. Could keep production relatively "small," though they'll probably quickly become popular with people like us. They can also be sold much cheaper, because they'll be cheaper to make.
TBH the satellite net interface is a greater concern as it is what allowed John Deere to brick the tractors that wound up in Russian hands in Ukraine, and if they can do it there, they can do it everywhere, for whatever reason.............
They have it locked out if you force things open without the right codes the tractor won't turn on. We hired someone to plow our field with their new tractor then sat out talking with them for three hours while we waited for the tech to come hit reset on the GPS. It took five minutes to fix it and the repair was free just completely annoying.
This is huge for farmers. No one wants to take time out for a mechanic when they can fix it on their own for cheaper. Honestly it’s bullshit this was even an issue in the first place
Lmao, I've an android, and I've probably changed a half dozen batteries on my own phones. It's not that hard, and the barriers reagent last more than a few years anyway...
Fair enough lol, my motto is if there is a Will, there is a way. For instance if 8 year old Chinese kids can assemble them, I don’t see why anyone who is mechanically gifted would be hesitant to disassemble, repair and reassemble. No matter what the product is, I actually fixed a $300 TDK Bluetooth speaker my boss gave me for free, worked fine plugged in but needed a new battery pack for wireless playing, after a $20 trip to the hobby store and some soldering the speaker isn’t only fixed but now has a much larger Capacity battery. It pays to tinker 😂
I actually fixed a $300 TDK Bluetooth speaker my boss gave me for free, worked fine plugged in but needed a new battery pack for wireless playing, after a $20 trip to the hobby store and some soldering the speaker isn’t only fixed but now has a much larger Capacity battery.
my only caveat there would be to make sure you know what you're doing when messing around with lipo batteries. They don't like to be overcharged and can catch fire if you do so, which is why most electronics with lithium batteries have an on-board charging circuit to prevent overcharging.
I'm not saying don't do it, just be extremely careful the charging circuit is intact and can handle the extra capacity. =)
Haha good advice, luckily it was just a nihm pack originally so I kept that same battery type. Been in the r/c world since 2002 and have definitely heard some horrible stories about people not having the proper respect for the power of Li-Po lol
indeed... hell, remember the samsung phone a few years back? battery had a faulty charging circuit and they kept starting on fire... one dude actually had the damned thing start on fire in his pocket in a plane, and when he took it out and tossed it on the floor, it actually burned a hole through the plane.
Thank goodness the plane was on the ground and the fuel is (usually) stored in the wings, or that could have been bad...
(sidenote, lithium gets very angry when introduced to water...sometimes even the water vapor in the air can set it off...)
What really scares me is they want to sling a massive bank of lipo cells underneath a car and have people drive around on top of this potential timebomb...
When there are so many other companies who make tractors and farming equipment who don't do this, why do they keep buying John Deere in the first place? Stop buying their products and watch them go under. Unless there is something else I'm misssing?
Some people just don’t “get it”. Klaud Schwab said “you will own nothing and like it” is more true than most realize. You might buy a $2-400,000 tractor but really you are renting it since JD controls IF the tractor you bought is going to even run OR buy a new laptop/computer—you bought the damn thing but basically it’s a metal box until you pay for all the “apps” monthly or yearly. Hell a few years ago you paid for the Programs, inserted the floppy or CD and downloaded..nope not now, you gotta buy the App and continuously pay for the right to “rent the metal box”.
Funny you mention that. I bought a new hp laptop with Windows 11 (s Mode or w.e valle it's called)
I was planning to put Linux in it anyway when I had the time, but when I couldn't hurt install vlc, I had to go through their app store, I said "fuck it" and installed fedora right there in the company parking lot on my lunch break.
I had only owned it for two days, that's how insufferable it was
This is interesting, and i may have to do a relatively long pist explaining the world of diesel, the EPA, farm equipment, etc and how this all ties together. In some aspects of this, i agree with the farmers, and in some others i can see JDs side of it.
Growing up with a grandfather that had the same mower my entire life.
And I believe 2 cars.
And one refrigerator. You get the picture.
This reverberates through the entire industry where VOIDED WARRANTY threats and somehow illegality accusations, and all that nonsense stops individual people from helping other people
This isnt going to change anything. All the components with electronics are "intellectual property" and require a dealer to flash the operating system onto. Surprise, surprise, they wont flash non-deere parts, even if they are identical.
The auto industry pulls the same bs.
This agreement was so that they could continue their vendor lockin strategy without setting a court precedent. If the litigants are smart, they'll continue their lawsuit.
Couple of things seem shady and still leaves JD open to screw consumers. But it's a start. Good first step, hopefully it holds together and develops in a good way.
This is not small. This sets a HUGE precedent for the "subscription model" in numerous other industries. While it isn't a court filing...just an agreement...it still sets the baseline for the ability for consumers to own the products they purchase.
John Deere went a bridge too far, and it burned them.
Pfizer and Vaxxxines have entered the Chat.....
Just behind Mercedes and BMW....
About 20 years ago, there was a conversation I was privy to about how the Top Brass at BMW and Mercedes wanted to put Locks on their Hoods so nobody but their onw Techs were able to open them and work on them....
The Idea was to have a Captured Clientele, a Captured audience if you will, and from that, a 100% reliable Captured Residual Income....
Which is exactly what they depend upon, Residual Income from parts intentionally designed to break within a certain amount of time, and if you cannot Duplicate it, or find an aftermarket copy, you're forced to buy it from the dealer, and that's at a hefty price....
Like what Apple does, and probably Tesla too.
Yep, it's why I have an Android and use PCs over Macs. Neither are perfect options of course, but are FAR better and more open ecosystems than the Apple's "walled garden". Cheaper too.
To go a step further, you need an open bios and OS too. Libre boot and coreboot with Linux or bsd.
Grifting on parts is a common business strategy. Sell your equipment at or slightly below cost, but make it up by the ton in part sales. Service agreements are even better.
But that isn’t the main issue. You should see how many people have sued John Deere over modified tractors that malfunctioned. And they tried to blame the manufacturer for the defect. These are very costly to litigate; even more so if they lose. Whether equipment was modified and/or whether the modification caused the injury or a manufacturing defect caused it is an issue of fact for a jury to find. You can’t easily punt those cases in summary judgment.
This is a HUGE win. My family farms and I would NEVER buy a Deere. All these country songs singing praised about John Deere always ticked me off. It s like Deere was paying Nashville. Even with this win, I still don't think I'll buy a John Deere because they tried to screw over the very people they claim to help. I'll keep watching this and see where it goes, but I still very much have a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm still partial to my family's Massey Fergusons and my favorite, the Allis Chalmers D15. Hell we still have an old Minneapolis-Moline sitting around!
"Old but fixable" will always beat "new but not fixable".
I think it is intentional to make these machines so intricate that only techs can work on them, thus the farmer will be forced to pay all of their profits from the harvesting of their crops to fix a machine that shouldn't fail for years.
Not only Green, but Red and Yellow have these faults. They really need to dumb down the machines so a farmer can easily work on it. Yea, sure, some bells and whistles would be deleted, but at least a weekend mechanic could change out parts when necessary. Plus why use only Green parts when an O'reilly or AutoZone pulley or belt might work?
I'll give Biden a pat on the back for his persuring a fix for this national problem.
Everything in society seems to be engineered to prevent self-sufficiency. They want us to depend on their system and be their slaves.
Don't need government cheese if you homestead.
What's that about Ruby Ridge?
Yeah, Lon Horiuchi killed Vicki Weaver while she was holding her newborn. I was talking about refusing to consume products. I really don't know much, but I never heard anything about not using something.
Sounds like a based entrepreneur could make a fortune if they sold tractors and other farm equipment that was designed so farmers could fix their own.
Yep. Like the Amish have a great market on 1900 turn of the century discs and harrows. I understand why it might be nice to have a tractor guided by GPS, but why pay half a million bucks for that tractor when you can do your own seeding with a used tractor with no GPS and still get the same production? If it were me starting out as a farmer I'd go to autions and purchase all the 1950's tractors and combines I needed to plant and harvest my crops. Sure I might have to make a few more passes in the fields because my headers isn't 100' across, but I'd still get all the crops in. Then my profits would be higher because I wouldn't have to be paying a larger mortgage on a $.5M combine. I guess some farmers want the latest and greatest. I'd be happy with having enough money set aside after the selling of the crops to keep my family fed and a roof over their heads.
My grandfather was a farmer his whole life. He never owned a tractor. He plowed every inch with a mule. He wasn't Amish.
You could plow a small field with that donkey AOC.
Someone should do that with cars: simple, few frills. Could keep production relatively "small," though they'll probably quickly become popular with people like us. They can also be sold much cheaper, because they'll be cheaper to make.
TBH the satellite net interface is a greater concern as it is what allowed John Deere to brick the tractors that wound up in Russian hands in Ukraine, and if they can do it there, they can do it everywhere, for whatever reason.............
What do you mean… Win the right to repair your own vehicles? Since when did somebody need permission to repair their own vehicles?
They have it locked out if you force things open without the right codes the tractor won't turn on. We hired someone to plow our field with their new tractor then sat out talking with them for three hours while we waited for the tech to come hit reset on the GPS. It took five minutes to fix it and the repair was free just completely annoying.
That's absurd. Makes me want to get a different color baler.
More bureaucracy! Sorry to hear. Hopefully this will get remedied.
There is a serious grey market for tech help with this stupid situation, been going on for a long time.
This is huge for farmers. No one wants to take time out for a mechanic when they can fix it on their own for cheaper. Honestly it’s bullshit this was even an issue in the first place
This should also sort out the problem with McDonald’s ice cream machines…..
WWG1WGA
LOLOL That apparently is beyond human capability.
i boycotted all John Deere products years ago when they made the decision. fvck 'em.
anything the ones at the top can do to MAKE US RELIABLE UPON THEM
that's all any of this is ever about hardly... control & dependency upon a group of self-described enlightened gods among men, ego-maniacs
I'll never buy a product I can't take apart myself and work on. I pay I own it.
Your cell phone is probably one of those products.
You’ve never cracked iPhone glass and repaired it? :shrugs:
Lmao, I've an android, and I've probably changed a half dozen batteries on my own phones. It's not that hard, and the barriers reagent last more than a few years anyway...
Fair enough lol, my motto is if there is a Will, there is a way. For instance if 8 year old Chinese kids can assemble them, I don’t see why anyone who is mechanically gifted would be hesitant to disassemble, repair and reassemble. No matter what the product is, I actually fixed a $300 TDK Bluetooth speaker my boss gave me for free, worked fine plugged in but needed a new battery pack for wireless playing, after a $20 trip to the hobby store and some soldering the speaker isn’t only fixed but now has a much larger Capacity battery. It pays to tinker 😂
agreed.
my only caveat there would be to make sure you know what you're doing when messing around with lipo batteries. They don't like to be overcharged and can catch fire if you do so, which is why most electronics with lithium batteries have an on-board charging circuit to prevent overcharging.
I'm not saying don't do it, just be extremely careful the charging circuit is intact and can handle the extra capacity. =)
Haha good advice, luckily it was just a nihm pack originally so I kept that same battery type. Been in the r/c world since 2002 and have definitely heard some horrible stories about people not having the proper respect for the power of Li-Po lol
indeed... hell, remember the samsung phone a few years back? battery had a faulty charging circuit and they kept starting on fire... one dude actually had the damned thing start on fire in his pocket in a plane, and when he took it out and tossed it on the floor, it actually burned a hole through the plane.
Thank goodness the plane was on the ground and the fuel is (usually) stored in the wings, or that could have been bad...
(sidenote, lithium gets very angry when introduced to water...sometimes even the water vapor in the air can set it off...)
What really scares me is they want to sling a massive bank of lipo cells underneath a car and have people drive around on top of this potential timebomb...
When there are so many other companies who make tractors and farming equipment who don't do this, why do they keep buying John Deere in the first place? Stop buying their products and watch them go under. Unless there is something else I'm misssing?
It's name recognition. Go up to any random person and ask them to name a tractor manufacturer, the first name will be Deere.
deere's sweet financing
This is HUGE!
Some people just don’t “get it”. Klaud Schwab said “you will own nothing and like it” is more true than most realize. You might buy a $2-400,000 tractor but really you are renting it since JD controls IF the tractor you bought is going to even run OR buy a new laptop/computer—you bought the damn thing but basically it’s a metal box until you pay for all the “apps” monthly or yearly. Hell a few years ago you paid for the Programs, inserted the floppy or CD and downloaded..nope not now, you gotta buy the App and continuously pay for the right to “rent the metal box”.
Funny you mention that. I bought a new hp laptop with Windows 11 (s Mode or w.e valle it's called)
I was planning to put Linux in it anyway when I had the time, but when I couldn't hurt install vlc, I had to go through their app store, I said "fuck it" and installed fedora right there in the company parking lot on my lunch break.
I had only owned it for two days, that's how insufferable it was
This is interesting, and i may have to do a relatively long pist explaining the world of diesel, the EPA, farm equipment, etc and how this all ties together. In some aspects of this, i agree with the farmers, and in some others i can see JDs side of it.
This isn't small whatsoever
Growing up with a grandfather that had the same mower my entire life.
And I believe 2 cars.
And one refrigerator. You get the picture.
This reverberates through the entire industry where VOIDED WARRANTY threats and somehow illegality accusations, and all that nonsense stops individual people from helping other people
finally!
This isnt going to change anything. All the components with electronics are "intellectual property" and require a dealer to flash the operating system onto. Surprise, surprise, they wont flash non-deere parts, even if they are identical.
The auto industry pulls the same bs.
This agreement was so that they could continue their vendor lockin strategy without setting a court precedent. If the litigants are smart, they'll continue their lawsuit.
Think there was a similar case a few years ago involving printer ink cartridges... Might be worth looking into...
Couple of things seem shady and still leaves JD open to screw consumers. But it's a start. Good first step, hopefully it holds together and develops in a good way.
https://www.fb.org/files/AFBF_John_Deere_MOU.pdf