LET US PRAY God bless President Donald Trump, his wife, family, the person that the shooter killed, Steven Bannon, legal team, friends, Q followers, the Voters that support Trump, the Military that supports the Constitution and Trump, Law Enforcement that too supports the Constitution and Trump, most of all Trumps security team and their families too, God Bless America, Bless the missing children and you the reader Too.🙏
"2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
You'll love it when you get there.. i've already been there for a few minutes.
I was watching trump speak at the rally tonight, and it was odd, because I was seeing it like we today would see old black and white film of life during the 1920s. It just felt so.. obsolete. Humans ways are still so far away from God's.
Fear of God is a constant awareness that God exists and is everywhere and can do anything.
There have been great men who lapsed in their fear of God to great consequence. Moses could not enter the promised land after leading the people for 40 years because of his lapse. David's baby died because of his lapse.
Yes God loves every person and wants every person to come to salvation through Jesus, but part of that love is discipline when we fall astray. It's just like how a loving parent will discipline their child when the child does wrong. It's just in this case God's discipline comes from a place of omnipotence.
But then it's more about respect than fear, no? I don't want my children to fear me when they do wrong, I want them to come to me and to learn from the mistake they made. I think that God would see it this way as well.
It's the fear of consequences for your wrong actions. It's not your children fearing you, it's not you fearing God himself, but it's the fear of not having the life you want due to wrong decisions. That fear keeps you on the right path. It's kinda odd to say you have respect for that path, or that it is just respect for God, maybe you do, but how does that lead you anywhere? I can respect someone and not care one bit about what they say to me or do.
It's not fear, it's faith that keeps me on the right path. I've done many, many, many things wrong in my life. Many fucking things. With 14, on my confirmation, my saying was Psalm 23. I chose this by myself, I said it in the church, and God listened. My life then went totally nuts, drugs, lies, theft, ignorance, what not. I was never violent, never killed or hurt people physically, but I did many strange things.
Instead of punishing me, God decided otherwise. He led me on a path I'd never had chosen on my own, ending up in a marriage and two beautiful children and a life full of love. But between 14 and 40 I did so many things wrong, it's a wonder I'm still alive. There were milestones layed down in this period of time that only paid out later in my life.
With 14 I said "The Lord is my Shepherd", and then the Lord sent me on a very strange journey. I've been strange before 14ys, but that was the time the Lord decided to take control.
Now that I'm settled, with 51ys old finally, I found back to the Lord, recognizing that he led me to where I am. And what I don't do is fear him I love him, I praise him, I enjoy the spirit of Jesus, I live a life of faith and love. I have bad moments, yes, but I don't fear. Nothing, not even the Lord. Because I do no wrong willingly. I made mistakes, I make mistakes, but the Lord guides me, and he forgives me, because he made me. I'm his child, and children act weired from time to time.
You only have to fear God, when you worship Satan. Only when your wrongdoing is intentional. When you refuse God. When you enjoy evil. Otherwise, just love him and let him guide you.
That's my take, I may be wrong, but I think I'm not.
Do not disagree with anything your saying. There's a little semantics going on, but the verse directly says "fear", yet I also do not think that implies to live a life in fear. And I certainly didn't imply that one does not make mistakes in life, or that God wants you to live mistake free life to so speak, it's impossible. But it's just like Trump was talking about yesterday, you have to want to be good, you have to want to go to heaven, be afraid of not going to heaven, so that you life a live striving as best you can to be that person.
I agree. You have to want to be good. I believe that's within our DNA, because: what reason is there to want to be bad? It's not intrinsic, it's extrinsic. We are born good, and then Evil kicks in and tries to deceive you. Either you fall for it, or you fight an invisible fight against it, with the help of God, sometimes even without realizing. But realize you will, at a certain point.
Semantics, yeah, English is not my native language, so something might sound strange, and I might understand things wrong. I do my best.
Fear is the fear of His wrath for denouncing His wants by our actions.
The fear of God is an Old Testament concept as where the unconditional love of God is through Christ’s sacrifice.
This. God does hit us up side the head. I told my son once "your angels must really love you," because he always got caught and paid a price for acting against his better self. Same thing with Trump, and he got sent to military school. Fear God.
You display unassailable virtue. I congratulate you. I am not so blessed. I am just an unimportant sinner who thinks it's a good idea to pay attention to Biblical warning about fearing God.
I totally get that, and we are all on a journey Fren, and they are all different :)
I have stood in a hallowed presence and shamed myself so badly it has required a vow of 10 years now to show penance. It was a stupid act of hubris, which is why I now try so very hard to be humble.
I may never step back into that presence again, and that's ok, but if I do it I will be as a different person.
I have been so blessed in my life, I may have also mentioned in other posts that I might have had the hardest working guardian angel in the world when I was younger - but I count my blessings now, and they are many.
I have one job, and I intend to work at it until my last breath. The net effect to me is immaterial to be honest, as long as I fulfil my vows and never give up (hard as that can be sometimes).
That's the point of discipline. And shame. That's what putting the fear of God means and why loving Jesus for actually saving us is real. If we mind what we've been taught, then we can fear not.
The effects of pleasing or displeasing God are seldom immediate. They can take a very long time. But they can be extremely powerful.
Most things we fear, its because we can see their effects quickly and clearly. Do you fear gravity? Fire? Of course, we all do.
Fear of God is the desire to learn the rules of an unseen force, so that it will never negatively affect your life. Disrespecting gravity or fire can ruin your life, but disrespecting God can ruin your soul. And conversely, fearing God can completely make you, in this life and beyond. If you fear God well, you need not fear any other thing.
..as a side note, I'm not sure which is funnier to me: Christians who don't believe the Bible, or atheists who cite the teachings of Jesus.
Ecclesiastes 8:12-13:
"Though a sinner do evil a hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God."
It did and it didn't. It's easy for me to understand someone's words, not so much their meaning.
For example:
Do you fear gravity? Fire? Of course, we all do.
I think I understand what you mean, but I struggle because I don't actually fear those things. I love fire, but I respect its power.
I also love gravity, because without it I wouldn't have been able to learn how to skydive :) but I have respect for the dangers it can present and take heed to plan accordingly and not dismiss those risks (lack of respect).
I know that other people fear those things, but I don't. So in a way I understand what you mean, but I don't really because it's not how I experience the world.
Oh you do so effing fear those things. You always follow their rules, because you know they can ruin you. If you experienced their full power in a scenario beyond your control, you'd crap your pants.
The book says many times to both fear and to love God. Interpret it in a way in which those two things aren't mutually exclusive, and you'll be on the right track.
If I follow their rules it's because I've learned that not to do so can kill me. That's a logical choice, not a fear based response.
I've been in situations where everything went to hell very quickly and was convinced I was going to die as a result. I didn't crap my pants (which would have been understandable). That's what I mean when I say I don't experience fear in the usual way.
It is going to be difficult for me to interpret a fear of God when I don't really understand what that means.
Sin is separation from God. We currently see what separation looks like. If the choices are heaven, or this, should you not fear? Fear is a great motivator…
Now, if you are on the right path, then you should be at peace. The trick is, there are many ways that seem right to a man, but the end of them is death.
It is important to keep that piece of fear in order to remain humble, and not become convinced of self righteousness. It is so, so easy to slip into thinking that the righteousness comes from us and not God.
Humility is something I have been working on for a long time, one of my main life lessons you could say.
I don't want to be humble because I'm frightened of what will happen to me though, I want to be humble because that's what I learnt from Jesus - that it's the right way to be.
Having made 'some' progress, I see the wisdom of it.
Just like love, I believe fear is a translated word. God made us to worship Him. Christ came to die for our sins so that we can be forgiven. It's not hard, yet so many can't do it. They are scared of being ostracised.
Too many of us are praying our hearts out to God. Asking for his help. Asking to save this nation. Trying to repent and be better. Spreading the gospel to other randoms online.
God already showed us his power with the attempted assassination. They had the whole thing rigged up, ready, and they still failed. Just like they failed at everything else.
God already made us, and made us perfectly suited to the task we are destined for.
What we have to do as human beings is to cut away all the bullshit and be as true to our true selves as possible, and in doing so we will be walking on the path that God laid out for us before we were born.
The path is narrow, so ditch all the baggage that this life tries to foist upon your soul and remain vigilant to straying from the path, and God will light the way.
A practical example for the literal minded (which includes me by the way :) ..
Whenever I try and achieve something that I think I want, God/life/the Universe (whatever you want to call it) often puts obstacles in the way. If I constantly get 'messages' that indicate that if I keep pushing that I will get what I want, but I might not like what I get - then I know I am on the wrong path.
Of course, there are obstacles that are designed to challenge us along the way to help us grow, but learning this truth has allowed me to avoid many of the pitfalls of my youth.
He is spot on. This is why our country was founded on religious morals, but allowed people to have the freedom not to be, unlike the middle ages.
The idea is that believing something good, having something that everyone can agree is good, helps guide our hands and our feet to making good happen.
It's why the people who loudly proclaim themselves as Atheist (capitalized for emphasis, as this has become a new deity to them) are generally directly in opposition of the values our country was founded on.
Then those Atheists try to point at priests and whatnot who end up in the positions and use that position to commit evil as a reason for why religions are all evil.
They're not. Any religion that can preach peace in the face of opposition, violence, false prophets, cannot be evil.
Even if you do not believe personally -- or even if you find yourself more agnostic and feel like you should respect it in spite of a lack of the proof you're looking for -- if you can at least rationalize and understand that the messaging is good, the morals are worth listening to, you can use that to form a solid moral foundation and accomplish great things.
Rather than directly opposing the flow of the river until it overflows, you can walk alongside it until you reach your destination.
This is a very good post. I just want to add, that whoever claims to be an Atheist, is bound to the religion of science, there is no other way. Personally I was raised being catholic, but when left the church. Having looked at most religions I practice now the way the buddha teached. I find he more or less teaches the same as Jesus. Before you change the world, change yourself.
I don't necessarily agree, but I don't disagree either.
A lot of the best scientists in history were religious to some degree and science shouldn't be pitted against religion. That has been a deliberate move throughout more recent history.
Even if you do not believe personally -- or even if you find yourself more agnostic and feel like you should respect it in spite of a lack of the proof you're looking for -- if you can at least rationalize and understand that the messaging is good, the morals are worth listening to, you can use that to form a solid moral foundation and accomplish great things
Religion is not a necessity for one to have morals. It absolutely has a big influence on how a religious person defines their own moral code, but non-religious people aren't any more or less likely to have morals than anyone else.
It's why the people who loudly proclaim themselves as Atheist (capitalized for emphasis, as this has become a new deity to them) are generally directly in opposition of the values our country was founded on.
I frequently see people say that the US was founded on religious principles, specifically Christianity. But whenever I ask them what those principles are, and how they are exclusive to religion, I never get an answer.
Could you tell me what you think those religious principles are, please? I truly would like to have a civilized conversation about this topic without people getting upset. I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily. Just that I don't see the topic the way that you do, and I'm trying to understand your view better.
no, i'm saying IMO, that by following the 10 commandments it makes for a good society. if you build a society on those principles, i think we would be blessed.
The topic wasn't what makes a good society, though. It was about people who claimed the US was founded on religion, specifically Christianity, and me asking what those principles are exactly and how they're exclusive to religion.
not all religions have the 10 commandments. the USA use to have them set up all over the place and the government took them down. they are a reminder of how we should live our lives daily. we use to have Bible study in school before classes started for the day. Plus we have In God We Trust on our money, we use to be a God fearing nation, not any more and look at what it has gotten us to. we have religious freedom in this country where Christians were not allowed to be persecuted, as where Christians were being imprisoned in other countries.
sorry if i'm missing your point, it's been a while.
Ok, other than the First Commandment about having no other gods before him, how are the 10 Commandments exclusive to Christianity?
All the other stuff about not killing people, not stealing, not being greedy, not committing adultery, respect your parents, etc...
How are those exclusive to Christianity? And again, how was the country founded on this?
we have religious freedom in this country where Christians were not allowed to be persecuted, as where Christians were being imprisoned in other countries.
Religious freedom doesn't only pertain to Christians. And we also have freedom from religion, where we can't be forced to practice a religion and where the government isn't supposed to show favoritism to any one religion (though that part is routinely ignored).
sorry if i'm missing your point, it's been a while.
It might help to go back and reread the conversation.
The principles are from Jesus: 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul; 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Without responsibility to (and love for) a greater power, you will have no reason to do #2 when that gets tough.
I apologize for the late reply. I somehow missed the responses to my post from last week.
So where exactly do these principles show up in the founding of the country? It seems like you're saying that because many, or even most, of the people from that time believed in God and Jesus, that it automatically means that our country was founded on it.
Using that logic, our country was also founded on racism and male chauvinism, due to the beliefs of the majority of the people at that time and how minorities (especially black people) and women were treated.
Without responsibility to (and love for) a greater power, you will have no reason to do #2 when that gets tough.
Many people find they have no problem loving and helping their neighbor without having to believe in God. The concept of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is one that transcends religious belief.
Religion is not a necessity for one to have morals. It absolutely has a big influence on how a religious person defines their own moral code, but non-religious people aren't any more or less likely to have morals than anyone else.
There are verses, and it’s been long discussed, even in the Bible in some ways, about the righteous unbeliever. Virgil was considered one in Dante’s time. Note that this is not in contrast to the unrighteous claimed believer, but the person who actually does what the Bible teaches.
It’s so, so much harder to go that path, though, and there’s really no reason to not try and bring oneself into faith. I suspect that the hardest part for people like this is they can’t visualize what it looks like. Frankly, that was my problem on Sunday that was causing me to believe the prior day’s events were faked. Once I slipped over to just simple belief that it was miraculous grace instead, that problem went away.
It is perfectly possible for someone to live a just life without believing in God, but what is the benefit, at that point, in rejecting grace and forgiveness and guidance?
I frequently see people say that the US was founded on religious principles, specifically Christianity. But whenever I ask them what those principles are, and how they are exclusive to religion, I never get an answer.
I will happily write this up for you, but it’s going to take me some time. I know they’re there, but it’s going to be some effort to find them and aggregate and write and whatnot.
I apologize for the late reply. I just now saw the responses to my post from last week.
Note that this is not in contrast to the unrighteous claimed believer, but the person who actually does what the Bible teaches.
It’s so, so much harder to go that path, though, and there’s really no reason to not try and bring oneself into faith.
Especially when the Bible teaches you to stone adulterers to death. I would imagine that is a pretty tough one to carry through.
It is perfectly possible for someone to live a just life without believing in God, but what is the benefit, at that point, in rejecting grace and forgiveness and guidance?
It's not a matter of rejecting it. It's a matter of not believing it exists in the first place. To reject something means that one believes there is something there to reject.
It's not a matter of just deciding to believe in God or not. It's a matter of why you believe or not. If the concept of God makes no sense at all to someone, it's not simply a matter of rejecting God. It's a matter of not having a reason to believe in God in the first place.
Comments like yours are very common and it makes it seem that there's a lot of people who believe in God on a "just in case" basis, or a "everyone else is doing it" basis.
Don’t take my position as just-in-case. That position strikes me as being better than rejection in the case of someone on the fence is all.
Especially when the Bible teaches you to stone adulterers to death.
World can be a harsh place, anon. It’s not that stoning adulterers is good, it’s that adultery is bad and we should fear committing it, fear it for our lives if need be. Other things are of the same type. People will abandon what’s best for the long term all the time if they think they can get away with it in the moment. It’s just how we are, and it’s not among our best traits. There are many verses like this. “If you dare get that match near the stove again, you’ll see what’s going to happen”, but imposed from .. I currently prefer to keep the consequences I consider confined to the material plane, which tends to be true enough. Most of these consequences are for believers, too, though there are some things that get applied to everyone, regardless of their beliefs (“Hi, Planned Parenthood! God sees you.”). There have been longstanding connections that indicate to me that the God of Abraham is real. I actually tend to suspect that the old Pagan gods were real (in a bad way, obviously) and several of them are currently remanifesting themselves spiritually, which is … not a good thing for anyone, and also ascribes more reasoning for the behaviors and beliefs of our ancestors than mere superstition and mass cultural deceit. I don’t agree with their character, but if some supernatural being was imposing itself on your town, 4000 years ago, in the absence of an opposing force or directive, you’d probably do what it demanded, too!
It's not a matter of just deciding to believe in God or not. It's a matter of why you believe or not. If the concept of God makes no sense at all to someone, it's not simply a matter of rejecting God. It's a matter of not having a reason to believe in God in the first place.
Meanwhile, I have had proven to me, from a logical standpoint (mind you, not one that I can recreate for others, but to where I personally have zero doubt, as a fairly logic-based person) that spiritual existence is real. I have had experience with several “coincidental” miracles, and several “experiential” miracles, and have no doubt that a hand of providence, for whatever purpose, has guided aspects of my life and kept me here and safe, however much suffering it has taken me to get through some of those passages (which in my life are admittedly relatively minor compared to the shocking traumas of many people i know) and pointed me in this direction. To what ends, I don’t yet know.
It's not a matter of rejecting it. It's a matter of not believing it exists in the first place. To reject something means that one believes there is something there to reject.
The character of God is reflected in His instruction. Whether you believe some superior being exists or not, that instruction absolutely exists. Let it be known that I have a great deal of beef with the church for what I see as failing to teach it adequately or correctly, and in many cases, actively opposing what is written. The current church as a whole is a poor reflection of the scripture. No knock on any specific congregation.
I also don’t necessarily agree with the concept of “bringing everyone into the faith as converts” while neglecting to make disciples in full - to the point that there are almost no disciples at all. There is a lot of validity to the mockery of the Flying Spaghetti Monster with the way that Christians teach the Bible.
I’m not trying to convince you, but only to let you know that if we start getting it right, you will see the light, in a manifest way, as it once was, and that when we get there, you don’t need to be able to visualize or imagine God to believe, but only to know His character, and we have that character written down. It just takes a lot of earnest humility and struggle.
I will happily write this up for you, but it’s going to take me some time. I know they’re there, but it’s going to be some effort to find them and aggregate and write and whatnot.
Forgot all about this, but it should definitely be a thread. Marked it to my “topics” list.
I will happily write this up for you, but it’s going to take me some time. I know they’re there, but it’s going to be some effort to find them and aggregate and write and whatnot.
Forgot all about this, but it should definitely be a thread. Marked it to my “topics” list.
Apologies, but one more thing - in another post since you read/responded already.
It’s not that stoning adulterers is good, it’s that adultery is bad and we should fear committing it, fear it for our lives if need be. Other things are of the same type. People will abandon what’s best for the long term all the time if they think they can get away with it in the moment. It’s just how we are, and it’s not among our best traits.
Note how the communists are actively attacking the family structure, and have been for decades, if not centuries. They understand, rightly, that parental ownership of children will always result in some degree of defection from their programming, and the method to resist it.
The end goal of communism is one central, inescapable worldly point of power - the capstone of the pyramid. Our goal is decentralization of power. Tear that damned thing to the ground.
While stoning an adulterer could be seen as harsh, which I noted, one purpose of that harshness is to protect, as being of utmost importance, a foundational building block of the societal structure standing in the way of their pyramid.
As we’ve broken down here, as we’ve allowed our families to disintegrate, they’ve stepped in and taken those children and made them theirs, made them to serve The Eye. The penalty is harsh because honoring the practice is of critical importance to [them] not winning, and they know it.
One point of many as to why I agree with the practicality of the Character and the Logos of it. To hell with their big club, and that’s from a big soft bleeding heart, who hates seeing anyone suffer the consequences of their deviations. All it costs to not get stoned for committing adultery is keep it in its home till getting home. It’s not that hard. (rimshot). Also worth noting, this law was not enforced very often. Mercy is a thing, too.
Was just listening to the Trump Roasting Everybody video, got to the point where he was saying “what the hell do you have to lose, seriously?” 3 times in a row, instantly thought of this and grinned. You may or may not not be wrong, but we have the best positions here, folks! It’s true. It’s true.
Religion is not a necessity for one to have morals.
I absolutely agree, but the point I was making is that by specifically acting in direct opposition to the religions that have shaped our morals for thousands of years you are more likely to toss those morals away.
You need only look at the people who oppose everything that Christianity stands for no matter how much they debase themselves or everyone and everything around them, because they grew up in a family that thumped them too hard with the Bible.
The "half" of the country that hates Christianity is running around grooming children, getting rid of self agency, and so many other things.
There are other people who are better able to quantify into words what religious morals have guided this country at its foundation, so I'll leave that bit to them.
Being good won’t get you into heaven. The scripture is very clear about this. The is only ONE way into Heaven, and that is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By accepting and believing that His sacrifice was for your sins, and that Jesus died upon the cross, was buried in a tomb and resurrected 3 days later, only when you have accepted that and believe it with your heart, then will you be saved. Just being good doesn’t cut it. You have to have Jesus to cover you when you stand before God in judgment. If you’re not covered in the blood of Christ, you will spend an eternity in a sinners Hell.
It’s to bad Trump didn’t mention any of this. And I hope many of you see this and seek further information about it. If you don’t have this understanding, or don’t have Jesus as your personal savior, it’s time to get this right. Everything else doesn’t matter.
It took 30 comments before someone(you) declared that Jesus and our belief in, faith in, and following him is the only way to be saved from the deserved eternal punishment for our innate shortcoming (sins).
I do believe trump is a good man, even a godly man, but have yet to hear him outwardly confess and declare Jesus as the way the truth and the life.
Certainly we are never given a perfect choice of candidates but are reminded also that God can use anyone to bring about his will.
Absolutely. And thank you for your post. I was kinda shocked no one was saying this before I did. It just shows how much work we need to do. When God is placed in front of this country, is when we will start winning. When we recognize God’s perfect sacrifice, of His only son Jesus, for our sins, and accept Jesus Christ as our savior, only then can we win. Until then it’s the devil’s playground. I hope today Trump understands this now. And can help others in his position. And lead by example.
Trump was right in a sense that “religion” as we know it does hold people accountable so they strive to be “good” - but religion isn’t the path to Heaven to be reconciled with our wondrous Creator. It’s Jesus.
Once you have truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior - through confession and belief in your heart, everything in your life as you once knew it changes. You begin to radiate the fruits of the spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. It’s often believed by many that you must “act a certain way” to get to Heaven. Sadly, we are not without sin in this broken world so it’s almost a guarantee that you will mess up many, many times following Jesus. But if you continue to repent (turn away from sin) and set your eyes on the cross to accept the grace of God through his son Jesus Christ, you may be saved.
Wonderful. That's what it's all about, be a good human being, live in the spirit of Jesus, have faith in God. Everything would be fine, and that's why they hate God, hate the Bible and violate every single commandment God gave us.
LET US PRAY God bless President Donald Trump, his wife, family, the person that the shooter killed, Steven Bannon, legal team, friends, Q followers, the Voters that support Trump, the Military that supports the Constitution and Trump, Law Enforcement that too supports the Constitution and Trump, most of all Trumps security team and their families too, God Bless America, Bless the missing children and you the reader Too.🙏
LORD hear our prayers, Amen.🙏
And I am adding a special plea that I hope others who have lost children will join in.
Please, Dear God, spare this man that pain. Protect all his babies from evil.
In the name of Your Beloved Son, Jesus the Christ, Amen.
Amen and Amen!🙏
God bless you and your family, too Moose!
John 14:2-3
"2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14&version=KJV
You'll love it when you get there.. i've already been there for a few minutes.
I was watching trump speak at the rally tonight, and it was odd, because I was seeing it like we today would see old black and white film of life during the 1920s. It just felt so.. obsolete. Humans ways are still so far away from God's.
🤔 username finally checks out
I spent years reading NDE's, and one of my takeaways was the basic truths in old gospel songs, like There's no hiding place Up There.
What a lovely blessing.
I really really needed to see this thank you!
took a while, but eventually my love for truth brought me to the fear of God
I've never really understood why we should fear God. Respect, Love, absolutely - but fear?
It doesn't tally with my experience to be honest, so I have a hard time understanding it.
Now, if I was to go off the reservation and set myself against God & Jesus, then yes, I could imagine being fearful, but that isn't happening.
The fear of God is reverence for God, and the fear of offending his holiness.
This ☝️ Also awe and respect. "Take off your shoes for this is holy ground."
Well said
I have offended, and it wasn't fear I felt, it was shame.
Shame is a much stronger motivator for me than fear, as I don't really seem to experience fear the way other people do. Not sure why.
Fear of God is a constant awareness that God exists and is everywhere and can do anything.
There have been great men who lapsed in their fear of God to great consequence. Moses could not enter the promised land after leading the people for 40 years because of his lapse. David's baby died because of his lapse.
Yes God loves every person and wants every person to come to salvation through Jesus, but part of that love is discipline when we fall astray. It's just like how a loving parent will discipline their child when the child does wrong. It's just in this case God's discipline comes from a place of omnipotence.
But then it's more about respect than fear, no? I don't want my children to fear me when they do wrong, I want them to come to me and to learn from the mistake they made. I think that God would see it this way as well.
It's the fear of consequences for your wrong actions. It's not your children fearing you, it's not you fearing God himself, but it's the fear of not having the life you want due to wrong decisions. That fear keeps you on the right path. It's kinda odd to say you have respect for that path, or that it is just respect for God, maybe you do, but how does that lead you anywhere? I can respect someone and not care one bit about what they say to me or do.
It's not fear, it's faith that keeps me on the right path. I've done many, many, many things wrong in my life. Many fucking things. With 14, on my confirmation, my saying was Psalm 23. I chose this by myself, I said it in the church, and God listened. My life then went totally nuts, drugs, lies, theft, ignorance, what not. I was never violent, never killed or hurt people physically, but I did many strange things.
Instead of punishing me, God decided otherwise. He led me on a path I'd never had chosen on my own, ending up in a marriage and two beautiful children and a life full of love. But between 14 and 40 I did so many things wrong, it's a wonder I'm still alive. There were milestones layed down in this period of time that only paid out later in my life.
With 14 I said "The Lord is my Shepherd", and then the Lord sent me on a very strange journey. I've been strange before 14ys, but that was the time the Lord decided to take control.
Now that I'm settled, with 51ys old finally, I found back to the Lord, recognizing that he led me to where I am. And what I don't do is fear him I love him, I praise him, I enjoy the spirit of Jesus, I live a life of faith and love. I have bad moments, yes, but I don't fear. Nothing, not even the Lord. Because I do no wrong willingly. I made mistakes, I make mistakes, but the Lord guides me, and he forgives me, because he made me. I'm his child, and children act weired from time to time.
You only have to fear God, when you worship Satan. Only when your wrongdoing is intentional. When you refuse God. When you enjoy evil. Otherwise, just love him and let him guide you.
That's my take, I may be wrong, but I think I'm not.
Do not disagree with anything your saying. There's a little semantics going on, but the verse directly says "fear", yet I also do not think that implies to live a life in fear. And I certainly didn't imply that one does not make mistakes in life, or that God wants you to live mistake free life to so speak, it's impossible. But it's just like Trump was talking about yesterday, you have to want to be good, you have to want to go to heaven, be afraid of not going to heaven, so that you life a live striving as best you can to be that person.
I agree. You have to want to be good. I believe that's within our DNA, because: what reason is there to want to be bad? It's not intrinsic, it's extrinsic. We are born good, and then Evil kicks in and tries to deceive you. Either you fall for it, or you fight an invisible fight against it, with the help of God, sometimes even without realizing. But realize you will, at a certain point.
Semantics, yeah, English is not my native language, so something might sound strange, and I might understand things wrong. I do my best.
Fear is the fear of His wrath for denouncing His wants by our actions. The fear of God is an Old Testament concept as where the unconditional love of God is through Christ’s sacrifice.
This. God does hit us up side the head. I told my son once "your angels must really love you," because he always got caught and paid a price for acting against his better self. Same thing with Trump, and he got sent to military school. Fear God.
Whenever I've been given an opportunity to learn from my mistakes, I'm not fearful, I'm grateful.
You display unassailable virtue. I congratulate you. I am not so blessed. I am just an unimportant sinner who thinks it's a good idea to pay attention to Biblical warning about fearing God.
I totally get that, and we are all on a journey Fren, and they are all different :)
I have stood in a hallowed presence and shamed myself so badly it has required a vow of 10 years now to show penance. It was a stupid act of hubris, which is why I now try so very hard to be humble.
I may never step back into that presence again, and that's ok, but if I do it I will be as a different person.
I have been so blessed in my life, I may have also mentioned in other posts that I might have had the hardest working guardian angel in the world when I was younger - but I count my blessings now, and they are many.
I have one job, and I intend to work at it until my last breath. The net effect to me is immaterial to be honest, as long as I fulfil my vows and never give up (hard as that can be sometimes).
That's the point of discipline. And shame. That's what putting the fear of God means and why loving Jesus for actually saving us is real. If we mind what we've been taught, then we can fear not.
I think I must have a different understanding of fear then.
I've read some of the responses on here and the ones about reverence make sense - it's not a use of the word I was familiar with.
I'm not someone who experiences fear the way other people seem to, so maybe my understanding is biased by that.
The effects of pleasing or displeasing God are seldom immediate. They can take a very long time. But they can be extremely powerful.
Most things we fear, its because we can see their effects quickly and clearly. Do you fear gravity? Fire? Of course, we all do.
Fear of God is the desire to learn the rules of an unseen force, so that it will never negatively affect your life. Disrespecting gravity or fire can ruin your life, but disrespecting God can ruin your soul. And conversely, fearing God can completely make you, in this life and beyond. If you fear God well, you need not fear any other thing.
..as a side note, I'm not sure which is funnier to me: Christians who don't believe the Bible, or atheists who cite the teachings of Jesus.
Ecclesiastes 8:12-13:
"Though a sinner do evil a hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God."
It's not that I don't believe the Bible, I don't understand the Bible.
However, I have contact with Jesus and he teaches me what I need to know without all the confusion - and that's good enough for me.
great answer. i hope my explanation made sense to you
It did and it didn't. It's easy for me to understand someone's words, not so much their meaning.
For example:
I think I understand what you mean, but I struggle because I don't actually fear those things. I love fire, but I respect its power.
I also love gravity, because without it I wouldn't have been able to learn how to skydive :) but I have respect for the dangers it can present and take heed to plan accordingly and not dismiss those risks (lack of respect).
I know that other people fear those things, but I don't. So in a way I understand what you mean, but I don't really because it's not how I experience the world.
Not sure that makes any sense, ah well :)
Oh you do so effing fear those things. You always follow their rules, because you know they can ruin you. If you experienced their full power in a scenario beyond your control, you'd crap your pants.
The book says many times to both fear and to love God. Interpret it in a way in which those two things aren't mutually exclusive, and you'll be on the right track.
If I follow their rules it's because I've learned that not to do so can kill me. That's a logical choice, not a fear based response.
I've been in situations where everything went to hell very quickly and was convinced I was going to die as a result. I didn't crap my pants (which would have been understandable). That's what I mean when I say I don't experience fear in the usual way.
It is going to be difficult for me to interpret a fear of God when I don't really understand what that means.
Sin is separation from God. We currently see what separation looks like. If the choices are heaven, or this, should you not fear? Fear is a great motivator…
Now, if you are on the right path, then you should be at peace. The trick is, there are many ways that seem right to a man, but the end of them is death.
It is important to keep that piece of fear in order to remain humble, and not become convinced of self righteousness. It is so, so easy to slip into thinking that the righteousness comes from us and not God.
Humility is something I have been working on for a long time, one of my main life lessons you could say.
I don't want to be humble because I'm frightened of what will happen to me though, I want to be humble because that's what I learnt from Jesus - that it's the right way to be.
Having made 'some' progress, I see the wisdom of it.
Just like love, I believe fear is a translated word. God made us to worship Him. Christ came to die for our sins so that we can be forgiven. It's not hard, yet so many can't do it. They are scared of being ostracised.
be good for goodness sake
There is no stopping us.
Too many of us are praying our hearts out to God. Asking for his help. Asking to save this nation. Trying to repent and be better. Spreading the gospel to other randoms online.
God already showed us his power with the attempted assassination. They had the whole thing rigged up, ready, and they still failed. Just like they failed at everything else.
There is NO STOPPING GOD.
God already made us, and made us perfectly suited to the task we are destined for.
What we have to do as human beings is to cut away all the bullshit and be as true to our true selves as possible, and in doing so we will be walking on the path that God laid out for us before we were born.
The path is narrow, so ditch all the baggage that this life tries to foist upon your soul and remain vigilant to straying from the path, and God will light the way.
A practical example for the literal minded (which includes me by the way :) ..
Whenever I try and achieve something that I think I want, God/life/the Universe (whatever you want to call it) often puts obstacles in the way. If I constantly get 'messages' that indicate that if I keep pushing that I will get what I want, but I might not like what I get - then I know I am on the wrong path.
Of course, there are obstacles that are designed to challenge us along the way to help us grow, but learning this truth has allowed me to avoid many of the pitfalls of my youth.
Amen...!
Jesus has good news for everyone who will listen.
He is spot on. This is why our country was founded on religious morals, but allowed people to have the freedom not to be, unlike the middle ages.
The idea is that believing something good, having something that everyone can agree is good, helps guide our hands and our feet to making good happen.
It's why the people who loudly proclaim themselves as Atheist (capitalized for emphasis, as this has become a new deity to them) are generally directly in opposition of the values our country was founded on.
Then those Atheists try to point at priests and whatnot who end up in the positions and use that position to commit evil as a reason for why religions are all evil.
They're not. Any religion that can preach peace in the face of opposition, violence, false prophets, cannot be evil.
Even if you do not believe personally -- or even if you find yourself more agnostic and feel like you should respect it in spite of a lack of the proof you're looking for -- if you can at least rationalize and understand that the messaging is good, the morals are worth listening to, you can use that to form a solid moral foundation and accomplish great things.
Rather than directly opposing the flow of the river until it overflows, you can walk alongside it until you reach your destination.
Good post.
Without free will, there can be no true faith.
"For it is God who works in you both to will and do of His good pleasure..." Philippians 2:13
This is a very good post. I just want to add, that whoever claims to be an Atheist, is bound to the religion of science, there is no other way. Personally I was raised being catholic, but when left the church. Having looked at most religions I practice now the way the buddha teached. I find he more or less teaches the same as Jesus. Before you change the world, change yourself.
I don't necessarily agree, but I don't disagree either.
A lot of the best scientists in history were religious to some degree and science shouldn't be pitted against religion. That has been a deliberate move throughout more recent history.
Religion is not a necessity for one to have morals. It absolutely has a big influence on how a religious person defines their own moral code, but non-religious people aren't any more or less likely to have morals than anyone else.
I frequently see people say that the US was founded on religious principles, specifically Christianity. But whenever I ask them what those principles are, and how they are exclusive to religion, I never get an answer.
Could you tell me what you think those religious principles are, please? I truly would like to have a civilized conversation about this topic without people getting upset. I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily. Just that I don't see the topic the way that you do, and I'm trying to understand your view better.
IMO, the Ten Commandments
I apologize for the late reply. I somehow missed the responses to my post.
Are you saying that the principles the US was founded on is based on the Ten Commandments?
Other than laws concerning murder and stealing, and perhaps perjury, I don't see where the rest factor in at all.
And every country has laws against murder, stealing, and perjury, so I don't see how that is exclusive to Christianity.
no, i'm saying IMO, that by following the 10 commandments it makes for a good society. if you build a society on those principles, i think we would be blessed.
The topic wasn't what makes a good society, though. It was about people who claimed the US was founded on religion, specifically Christianity, and me asking what those principles are exactly and how they're exclusive to religion.
not all religions have the 10 commandments. the USA use to have them set up all over the place and the government took them down. they are a reminder of how we should live our lives daily. we use to have Bible study in school before classes started for the day. Plus we have In God We Trust on our money, we use to be a God fearing nation, not any more and look at what it has gotten us to. we have religious freedom in this country where Christians were not allowed to be persecuted, as where Christians were being imprisoned in other countries.
sorry if i'm missing your point, it's been a while.
Ok, other than the First Commandment about having no other gods before him, how are the 10 Commandments exclusive to Christianity?
All the other stuff about not killing people, not stealing, not being greedy, not committing adultery, respect your parents, etc...
How are those exclusive to Christianity? And again, how was the country founded on this?
Religious freedom doesn't only pertain to Christians. And we also have freedom from religion, where we can't be forced to practice a religion and where the government isn't supposed to show favoritism to any one religion (though that part is routinely ignored).
It might help to go back and reread the conversation.
The principles are from Jesus: 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul; 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Without responsibility to (and love for) a greater power, you will have no reason to do #2 when that gets tough.
I apologize for the late reply. I somehow missed the responses to my post from last week.
So where exactly do these principles show up in the founding of the country? It seems like you're saying that because many, or even most, of the people from that time believed in God and Jesus, that it automatically means that our country was founded on it.
Using that logic, our country was also founded on racism and male chauvinism, due to the beliefs of the majority of the people at that time and how minorities (especially black people) and women were treated.
Many people find they have no problem loving and helping their neighbor without having to believe in God. The concept of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is one that transcends religious belief.
There are verses, and it’s been long discussed, even in the Bible in some ways, about the righteous unbeliever. Virgil was considered one in Dante’s time. Note that this is not in contrast to the unrighteous claimed believer, but the person who actually does what the Bible teaches.
It’s so, so much harder to go that path, though, and there’s really no reason to not try and bring oneself into faith. I suspect that the hardest part for people like this is they can’t visualize what it looks like. Frankly, that was my problem on Sunday that was causing me to believe the prior day’s events were faked. Once I slipped over to just simple belief that it was miraculous grace instead, that problem went away.
It is perfectly possible for someone to live a just life without believing in God, but what is the benefit, at that point, in rejecting grace and forgiveness and guidance?
I will happily write this up for you, but it’s going to take me some time. I know they’re there, but it’s going to be some effort to find them and aggregate and write and whatnot.
I apologize for the late reply. I just now saw the responses to my post from last week.
Especially when the Bible teaches you to stone adulterers to death. I would imagine that is a pretty tough one to carry through.
It's not a matter of rejecting it. It's a matter of not believing it exists in the first place. To reject something means that one believes there is something there to reject.
It's not a matter of just deciding to believe in God or not. It's a matter of why you believe or not. If the concept of God makes no sense at all to someone, it's not simply a matter of rejecting God. It's a matter of not having a reason to believe in God in the first place.
Comments like yours are very common and it makes it seem that there's a lot of people who believe in God on a "just in case" basis, or a "everyone else is doing it" basis.
Better late than never fren! No worries!
Don’t take my position as just-in-case. That position strikes me as being better than rejection in the case of someone on the fence is all.
World can be a harsh place, anon. It’s not that stoning adulterers is good, it’s that adultery is bad and we should fear committing it, fear it for our lives if need be. Other things are of the same type. People will abandon what’s best for the long term all the time if they think they can get away with it in the moment. It’s just how we are, and it’s not among our best traits. There are many verses like this. “If you dare get that match near the stove again, you’ll see what’s going to happen”, but imposed from .. I currently prefer to keep the consequences I consider confined to the material plane, which tends to be true enough. Most of these consequences are for believers, too, though there are some things that get applied to everyone, regardless of their beliefs (“Hi, Planned Parenthood! God sees you.”). There have been longstanding connections that indicate to me that the God of Abraham is real. I actually tend to suspect that the old Pagan gods were real (in a bad way, obviously) and several of them are currently remanifesting themselves spiritually, which is … not a good thing for anyone, and also ascribes more reasoning for the behaviors and beliefs of our ancestors than mere superstition and mass cultural deceit. I don’t agree with their character, but if some supernatural being was imposing itself on your town, 4000 years ago, in the absence of an opposing force or directive, you’d probably do what it demanded, too!
Meanwhile, I have had proven to me, from a logical standpoint (mind you, not one that I can recreate for others, but to where I personally have zero doubt, as a fairly logic-based person) that spiritual existence is real. I have had experience with several “coincidental” miracles, and several “experiential” miracles, and have no doubt that a hand of providence, for whatever purpose, has guided aspects of my life and kept me here and safe, however much suffering it has taken me to get through some of those passages (which in my life are admittedly relatively minor compared to the shocking traumas of many people i know) and pointed me in this direction. To what ends, I don’t yet know.
The character of God is reflected in His instruction. Whether you believe some superior being exists or not, that instruction absolutely exists. Let it be known that I have a great deal of beef with the church for what I see as failing to teach it adequately or correctly, and in many cases, actively opposing what is written. The current church as a whole is a poor reflection of the scripture. No knock on any specific congregation.
I also don’t necessarily agree with the concept of “bringing everyone into the faith as converts” while neglecting to make disciples in full - to the point that there are almost no disciples at all. There is a lot of validity to the mockery of the Flying Spaghetti Monster with the way that Christians teach the Bible.
I’m not trying to convince you, but only to let you know that if we start getting it right, you will see the light, in a manifest way, as it once was, and that when we get there, you don’t need to be able to visualize or imagine God to believe, but only to know His character, and we have that character written down. It just takes a lot of earnest humility and struggle.
Forgot all about this, but it should definitely be a thread. Marked it to my “topics” list.
I would really be interested in seeing it.
Apologies, but one more thing - in another post since you read/responded already.
Note how the communists are actively attacking the family structure, and have been for decades, if not centuries. They understand, rightly, that parental ownership of children will always result in some degree of defection from their programming, and the method to resist it.
The end goal of communism is one central, inescapable worldly point of power - the capstone of the pyramid. Our goal is decentralization of power. Tear that damned thing to the ground.
While stoning an adulterer could be seen as harsh, which I noted, one purpose of that harshness is to protect, as being of utmost importance, a foundational building block of the societal structure standing in the way of their pyramid.
As we’ve broken down here, as we’ve allowed our families to disintegrate, they’ve stepped in and taken those children and made them theirs, made them to serve The Eye. The penalty is harsh because honoring the practice is of critical importance to [them] not winning, and they know it.
One point of many as to why I agree with the practicality of the Character and the Logos of it. To hell with their big club, and that’s from a big soft bleeding heart, who hates seeing anyone suffer the consequences of their deviations. All it costs to not get stoned for committing adultery is keep it in its home till getting home. It’s not that hard. (rimshot). Also worth noting, this law was not enforced very often. Mercy is a thing, too.
Was just listening to the Trump Roasting Everybody video, got to the point where he was saying “what the hell do you have to lose, seriously?” 3 times in a row, instantly thought of this and grinned. You may or may not not be wrong, but we have the best positions here, folks! It’s true. It’s true.
I absolutely agree, but the point I was making is that by specifically acting in direct opposition to the religions that have shaped our morals for thousands of years you are more likely to toss those morals away.
You need only look at the people who oppose everything that Christianity stands for no matter how much they debase themselves or everyone and everything around them, because they grew up in a family that thumped them too hard with the Bible.
The "half" of the country that hates Christianity is running around grooming children, getting rid of self agency, and so many other things.
There are other people who are better able to quantify into words what religious morals have guided this country at its foundation, so I'll leave that bit to them.
Being good won’t get you into heaven. The scripture is very clear about this. The is only ONE way into Heaven, and that is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By accepting and believing that His sacrifice was for your sins, and that Jesus died upon the cross, was buried in a tomb and resurrected 3 days later, only when you have accepted that and believe it with your heart, then will you be saved. Just being good doesn’t cut it. You have to have Jesus to cover you when you stand before God in judgment. If you’re not covered in the blood of Christ, you will spend an eternity in a sinners Hell. It’s to bad Trump didn’t mention any of this. And I hope many of you see this and seek further information about it. If you don’t have this understanding, or don’t have Jesus as your personal savior, it’s time to get this right. Everything else doesn’t matter.
It took 30 comments before someone(you) declared that Jesus and our belief in, faith in, and following him is the only way to be saved from the deserved eternal punishment for our innate shortcoming (sins).
I do believe trump is a good man, even a godly man, but have yet to hear him outwardly confess and declare Jesus as the way the truth and the life.
Certainly we are never given a perfect choice of candidates but are reminded also that God can use anyone to bring about his will.
Thanks for your post.
Absolutely. And thank you for your post. I was kinda shocked no one was saying this before I did. It just shows how much work we need to do. When God is placed in front of this country, is when we will start winning. When we recognize God’s perfect sacrifice, of His only son Jesus, for our sins, and accept Jesus Christ as our savior, only then can we win. Until then it’s the devil’s playground. I hope today Trump understands this now. And can help others in his position. And lead by example.
Trump was right in a sense that “religion” as we know it does hold people accountable so they strive to be “good” - but religion isn’t the path to Heaven to be reconciled with our wondrous Creator. It’s Jesus.
Once you have truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior - through confession and belief in your heart, everything in your life as you once knew it changes. You begin to radiate the fruits of the spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. It’s often believed by many that you must “act a certain way” to get to Heaven. Sadly, we are not without sin in this broken world so it’s almost a guarantee that you will mess up many, many times following Jesus. But if you continue to repent (turn away from sin) and set your eyes on the cross to accept the grace of God through his son Jesus Christ, you may be saved.
Wonderful. That's what it's all about, be a good human being, live in the spirit of Jesus, have faith in God. Everything would be fine, and that's why they hate God, hate the Bible and violate every single commandment God gave us.