BREAKING: South Carolina passes bill that bans nearly all abortions.
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Hmm, I think abortions should be allowed if mother's health is in danger or she has been raped etc.
Seems like an ideal law. Still allows early term abortions and makes us accountable for later term abortions.
I see no issues with this approach.
Yeah no shit.
Crazy how people wanted to peddle the idea of unmitigated baby killing as "reasonable".
Ehh both sides don't want to reach the obvious middle ground that South Carolina did. Both sides share some, though obviously nowhere near equal, blame for how hard it is to meet in the middle on this issue.
SC definitely did the ideal thing. Some people will grumble at any abortion at all, some will grumble at any restrictions, but honestly the law is as perfectly targeted as the issue is going to get.
First heartbeat or rape/incest/danger. Otherwise no abortion. Sounds like a true middle ground between ideals.
You're right on this. There will always be people who think that all abortion is murder, and there will always be those who think that we are one step away from Handmaid's Tale.
Bills like this cross the middle ground and give both sides something they want. Good job South Carolina!
No it isn’t. It still legalizes murder. Abortion is murder. It’s a proven scientific fact that a new human organism is created at conception. Either you believe all human organisms are created with equal inherent rights, or you believe our rights are merely arbitrarily granted by whoever happens to be in power over us based on arbitrary criteria such as race, gender, age, location, mental/physical abilities, etc.
As for exceptions, there are none that should be tolerated. No child deserves the death penalty for the crimes of their rapist father.
Also, killing your preborn son/daughter because your health is at risk is like murdering your teenage son/daughter because you need to harvest their organs for a transplant to save your life.
if a mother cannot survive the pregnancy then who will care for the child, the government? nobody?
if this were the wild and a child is born to a dead mother, both baby and mother die. we can afford to save one of them in our society.
get real
Lots of children die natural deaths after birth too. That’s life. It’s not justified to murder a human being just because they might be a burden on others or not live the quality of life up to the expectations of others.
Also, the cases where a baby must be murdered in order to save the mother are pretty much nonexistent. Every time a mother has gone against the advice of their doctor and refused to murder their child, the mother lived anyway.
Would you murder your teenage son in order to harvest their heart because you needed a heart transplant to save your life?
You are the king of bad analogues.
If danger to the mother is so rare, then it's truly not worth getting bothered over.
However, I will grant that this needs to be followed with serious consequences for doctors who try to cheat this by falsely diagnosing something to get around the restriction.
Just a few murdered children isn’t worth getting bothered over?
That's not true. At conception the organism lacks every single trait that would qualify one as human.
How about option 3 - All human beings have equal rights.
I don't consider a collection of DNA and chromosomes to be a human being even if it has to potential to be one.
It's not a child at 3 weeks.
Uh...what?
Wrong. Science has disproven your personal opinion. “Human” refers to our species, which is defined by our DNA. There’s a biological definition of “organism” that has several criteria, and human zygotes are confirmed with technology such as electron microscopes to be human organisms.
If we go by random opinions about what a human being is instead of the scientific definition, then people like you could once again argue that blacks or Jews are not actual human beings just like some currently do for preborn human organisms.
No it hasn't. Stop lying.
Human being actually.
Everytime you remove a part of your body that contains your DNA you aren't destroying a unique entity, are you?
That which makes people.....people...is more than a genetic series of codecs. Humans form into beings, which is why you aren't automatically a person upon conception.
I didn't say human, you did.
I said human being.
Pay attention.
You're an idiot. Nothing that has been said separates race from humanity.
Here’s a long list of scientific references that prove you wrong. https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html
Also, learn some basic high school biology. Learn the difference between an organism (a living being) vs a living cell, such as a skin cell, that is a part of an organism.
“Being” simply means state of existence. Human organisms are synonymous with human beings.
But Wikipedia says....
Yes, learn some basic biology. Species are determined by our DNA.
Also, I never said human beings don’t have souls. Quit assuming things and putting words in my mouth.
And here you deduct a human to be nothing but made of cells with no soul. Meaning just physical (which is determinism) and no soul (non-physical entity). This is just pure nonsense and evil. We know that there exist more than just this physical realm that there is something beyond it. A body doesn't have a soul until after birth. Science only goes as far as measuring what is in this physical world. It cannot study consciousness because the soul exist in the non-physical realm, affecting what is in the physical realm.
I never said I don’t believe human beings have souls. Quit assuming random BS and putting words in my mouth.
Most women aren't aware they're pregnant even at the 5-6 week mark.
You could...you know....google the answer?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat
If you're going to contest something, at least have a clue what your position actually is.
Thanks hon. Right before reading your helpful comment, I decided to search it and found out the heart of an embryo starts to beat from around five to six weeks of pregnancy. So, you are correct! Well done.
The human fetal heart begins to beat at 22 days post conception (3 weeks). But we date the pregnancy from the first day of the woman's last menstrual cycle, usually about 2 weeks prior to conception. Thus, the lay advice that the heart beat is heard at 5-6 weeks into the pregnancy. I worked in a free pregnancy clinic and did early ultrasounds to confirm pregnancy, so I have a little extra experience here.
I remember the campaign "18 days a heartbeat"
It's actually less stressful/traumatic and quicker to undergo an emergency c-sec if mom's health is in jeapordy than it is to do an abortion. I can think of no medical circumstance where an abortion makes sense.
Abortion is murder. It’s a proven scientific fact that a new human organism is created at conception. Either you believe all human organisms are created with equal inherent rights, or you believe our rights are merely arbitrarily granted by whoever happens to be in power over us based on arbitrary criteria such as race, gender, age, location, mental/physical abilities, etc.
As for exceptions, there are none that should be tolerated. No child deserves the death penalty for the crimes of their rapist father.
Also, killing your preborn son/daughter because your health is at risk is like murdering your teenage son/daughter because you need to harvest their organs for a transplant to save your life.
Hypothetically if you were in a burning building and there were 6 unborn fetuses being grown and 6 children and you only had time to save either the children or the fetuses what would you do?
That’s irrelevant to the fact that abortion is murder. What if in your scenario it was 6 black adults vs 6 white adults? What if it were men vs women? What if it were teenagers vs elderly? What if it were 6 elderly Christians vs 6 young Satan worshippers?
Personally I'd save the children
Dude he couldn't even honestly answer that.
That's sad.
People need to learn how to take a win when they get them instead of trying to claw for more.
The reason the left keeps winning is that it has been a slow crawling corruption through the years, taking every single win they could and changing the culture while they did so.
You'll never sway someone from the other side with behavior like that..but you can with a middle ground law like this that appeals to sensibility of both sides.
That is my stance also.
That’s still murder. No child deserves the death penalty for the crimes of their rapist father.
Also, killing your preborn son/daughter because your health is at risk is like murdering your teenage son/daughter because you need to harvest their organs for a transplant to save your life.
Consistent logic/morals are important.
How are those the same in the slightest? In one case the child is directly causing the woman's life to be in danger and in the other it's not.
One is you shooting someone trying to kill you with a bat and the other is you shooting someone because they have water and you're thirsty.
Agree on rape.
False, the child is never responsible for killing the mother. The child did not create itself, did not place itself in the womb, and did not initiate any force against the mother. Preborn children are always 100% innocent.
Many obstetricians have stated that there are no maternal conditions that require abortion to save the mother. I worked in the OB field for over 35 years, and never witnessed (or heard of) a mother's death due to the lack of an abortion. Some babies born extremely early due to the mother's health did not survive, but their survival was always the goal.
Although pregnancy after rape is less common and a true tragedy for the mother, abortion tends to make the rest of us feel better, as it removes the constant reminder of the rape, which may diminish the love and care that the victim needs to recover. Of course, each victim's response to the pregnancy is individual. Some women are happy with the choice to carry the pregnancy. After all, the child's DNA is from the mother as well as the rapist father. How the victim views the pregnancy may depend upon the messages, love and support (or lack thereof) that she receives.
That's why I'm sure it says "nearly"... obviously exceptions are almost always present.
Abortions will still happen. They'll just be in less reliably sterile environments, performed by less educated personnel. This is the only problem I see with it.
I mean if we just criminalize all guns, then nobody will have one.
That's how fucking stupid your argument is.
Ha ha, you accidentally said something smart.
In parts of Switzerland, for example, addicts are supplied with clean heroin and needles to shoot up safely at a govt. clinic at no charge, as part of a public health initiative. It is stunningly successful.
It costs the citizens far less than arresting and incarcerating users. They get off the street, stop committing crimes to support their habit, hold down jobs, regain custody of their children, slash the risk of disease and death...and receive all the counseling and rehab they want once they decide to kick, which is usually a lot SOONER than when out on the street sucking cock for smack, where they feel trapped with no way out. The only way to cope with the psychic pain of that lifestyle is...to shoot more dope. The vicious circle never ends.
Even Conservative George Shultz, Sec of State under Drug-War Kingpin Ronald Reagan, advocated full drug legalization back in the 80s after he left office. His position was that the drug war is an abject failure; people will get what they want; keeping drugs illegal costs society more than liberty; and viewing drug addiction as a health problem instead of a criminal justice problem is the way.
Yet there are still people who continue to believe stubbornly that if you just make drugs illegal enough, stigmatize users enough, punish them and hate them hard enough, then nobody will have any.
ROFLMFAO LOL OMG AFAIK Portland's a shithole. Why would anyone want to move there? That's stupid.
Also, I've never taken heroin because it's stupid. I don't drink alcohol either. Addictive deadly drugs...not my thing.
I was going to ask if you agree that's pretty smart, but how would you know
That wasn’t the argument. No one is arguing that making something against the law will stop all occurrences of that crime.
Why is that a problem to you? Should the government provide body armor and better weapons to mass shooters and assassins too so that they can more safely murder others?
Non sequitur
Nowhere did I suggest government anything
All I said was they'll still happen, it will just be worse. It's merely an observation. More injured and infected women and girls; and more unwanted babies.
Making something illegal doesn't keep people from obtaining it. That's our argument against gun control, and it makes sense.
BTW I'm against abortion. But I'm also honest: I don't pretend to have a solution.
Saying "Abortion is murder; so we should TRY these females and give them the death penalty for first degree murder" and marching long lines of girls and women to the gallows isn't a good solution.
Punishing only the female isn't fair, because she had an accomplice in her murder. And punishing only the abortion practitioner, as if the female had nothing to do with killing her baby, also isn't a fair solution. They both get the death penalty. That might reduce abortions, but I'm not sure that's the solution.
Simply saying "Just don't have sex" or "Just carry it to term, and then give it up for adoption" or "Just get married immediately if you can find the father, and learn to be parents against your will at 16" aren't real, viable solutions IMHO.
Maybe if more adoption agencies and orphanages weren't fronts for hideous child-trafficking syndicates, that option could work for the ~15% of couples who can't conceive.
The safety of the murderer and their accomplices is irrelevant to the fact that abortion is murder. They are not the victims here and deserve no safety. Also, all the stats that originated from Roe v Wade regarding abortions and dangerous back alley abortions were all lies. Also, many women get killed or severely injured during the “safe” abortions in clinics too.
Again, that’s all irrelevant to the fact that abortion is murder and no situation can justify it.
Extremist viewpoints are seldom persuasive.
Almost nobody believes women and girls should be charged with murder for terminating a pregnancy, or forced against her will to carry to term the fetus of her rapist or family member. It's just not a rational position. I understand that you believe it is, so we agree to disagree.
It doesn’t matter what the majority believes, whether the majority support communism, or support exterminating Jews, or support slavery.
Also, no child deserves the death penalty for the crimes of their rapist father, and no girl deserves the trauma of abortion/murdering their child on top of their trauma from rape.
You’re only agreeing with murderers that murder is okay when it’s perceived to be convenient and the victims the defenseless and out of sight.
Who granted you the sweeping power to decide for all girls that they must carry their rapist's seed to term, and then suffer the horrible pain of childbirth on top of the horrible pain of being raped? Or that the pain/trauma of surrendering their baby to someone else is worse than abortion? Or that the pain of childbirth is somehow preferable for her to the pain/trauma of the procedure? Answer is nobody.
So now you're NOT charging minors with murder if they have an abortion after being raped? OK
Sure. You're getting more bizarre and absurd with every post. You should have stopped at "We agree to disagree" LOL
Sounds like you're saying "Abortion is murder; so we should TRY these females and give them the death penalty for first degree murder", and that marching long lines of girls and women to the gallows is a good solution.
Exaggerated for effect, but is that essentially accurate?
I’m not making any argument about what consequences should be given, just that abortion is murder. If a mother rapes her child, or murders their child, harsh consequences should be given either way.
Sorry, but your declaration doesn't come with that escape hatch.
If you're going to proclaim something as murder, then you have to also man up and be consistent in meting out the punishment for it as murder.
Did you see the movie about Gosnell, the abortionist in Philadelphia? His clinic was overrun by rats (and cats chasing the rats). But he kept one room clean(er) for the white women. How reliably sterile!
Murder belongs in dark alleys and unsterile environments.
To be correct about words. They are fetus. It is a baby after birth.
Fetus is Latin for small child. All it refers to is a level of development.
The old definition of latin for fetus is wrong, it is not a child. In modern age the English definition for fetus is an unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception. Generally, a baby will be called an embryo from conception until the eighth week of development. After the eighth week, the baby will be called a fetus until it's born.
Latin definition for: A fetus or foetus is the unborn offspring that develops from an embryo. The offspring of a human is called a child.
A fetus is a human being in an early stage of development. It is a human being from the moment of conception with the same DNA he or she will have for the rest of their life.
Fetus, newborn, baby, toddler, child, adolescent, teenager, adult, senior. - All names for HUMAN BEINGS at different ages and levels of development but all still human and with varying levels of dependency and size.
Abortion is the murder of a human life and God considers it worthy of the death penalty in Levitical law.
It is not a fact that a fetus is an unborn offspring. A fetus is a fetus. An offspring is a person's child. You are mixing words together that a child is the same as an unborn offspring so that you can uphold the lie that abortion is murder. This is pure nonsense and evil.
A fetus is just a fetus, and not a person. A human being is a man, woman or a child with soul. You are mixing words together so that a fetus (no soul) is the same thing as human being -- to control the females. This is pure evil.
Fetus does not have soul. A human body does not recieve a soul until a few weeks after birth. My very first memory is a few weeks after birth. It could be because that is when the soul merged with its host the body in this physical realm.
With your nonsense definition of words makes a conclusions based on irrationality, just like your mind which is full of non-facts with reality.
Lol you're trying soooo hard.
It's a HUMAN fetus. It has a soul from the moment of conception according to the Word of God.
You're one of those "magical birth canal" fools that think passing through grants some special status that didn't exist a few minutes prior.
You can't call anything "evil" without borrowing from the Christian worldview and since God calls abortion "murder" and child sacrifice an "abomination" then you are the one supporting "pure evil"
You may as well be defending pedophilia you sick POS.
Facts are facts, which you ignore.
Still does not make it a human being.
According to a manmade bible is not the same as science and logic.
Strawman, I never said anything like that.
I see, a biblical fanatic. Nothing will come through to you except what a manmade book tells you to think, which is not based on science.
Since I don't read the bible I did a search on Google. According to what I found you are a liar and are misquoting the bible. I paste what I found:
"What Does the Bible Say about Abortion? Absolutely nothing! The word "abortion" does not appear in any translation of the bible."
So you lied. The bible says nothing about abortion.
"According to the bible, life begins at birth--when a baby draws its first breath."
So that means the word of God says life begins when it is out of the mother, because it is first then the baby body is ready to recieve the soul.
"Significantly, the Mosaic law in Exodus 21:22-25, directly following the Ten Commandments, makes it clear that an embryo or fetus is not a human being."
Imagine that, the bible follows logic.
"The separation of church and state, the right to privacy, and women's rights all demand freedom of choice."
Exactly, the soul's property right over its own body. Evil people don't want women to have property right over its own body.
Source
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/26087-abortion-nontract
Projection from its own psychosis because it cannot relate to facts.
Praise The Lord!!!
It's only a heartbeat bill but it's a step in the right direction. My group EndAbortionNow.com tried to amend it to make it better but it got shot down.
The problem with heartbeat bills is that it relies on the person doing the ultrasound to detect the heartbeat. A doctor at an abortion clinic has every motivation to not find the heartbeat and any ultrasound technician will tell you they have all the power in the world. It's no different than either pointing and focusing your camera where you want to or unfocusing it and pointing it somewhere else.
Do you really trust a murderer to record themselves honestly?
https://apnews.com/article/south-carolina-passes-abortion-ban-bill-85449b10f9186589a6656f2245754adb
It's the same issue as the BS of wanting psych evaluations, all they need to do is bribe the shrinks so that you lose your rights.
Maybe we should stop having "abortion clinics" and actually have doctors who care about children make the distinction?
Also, holding people accountable for trying to skirt it would be important
John Cena how about we criminalize it from the moment of conception and actually be consistent.
You'd be amazed what happens to a society that submits itself to God's law.
What if banning abortions would be the outcome of all this?! No aborted fetal tissues in vaccines, etc. Wow! What a thought!
My beautiful home state, thank God some have sense left.
New Mexico is passing a bill to remove ALL restrictions on abortion
Interesting, Not sure if good or bad.
Just like guns, regulate them out of existence.
This is amazing news. Miss my time spent in SC - definitely need to pay a visit this year.
I wish Michigan could have done something like this before my ex killed my baby
Would go into effect if Roe v Wade is overturned. So never.
What does this have to do with Q?
I believe all parts of this are viewable here:
https://www.scstatehouse.gov/query.php?search=SEARCH&searchtext=abortion&category=LEGISLATION&conid=0000&session=124
The following links are provided in this search:
H 3890
S 341
S 385
H 3872
H 3512
H 3508
H 3163
S 399
S 1
I have met lots of people lately that have been escaping Cali here in Tennessee. Y'all seem to be on the right path now with the recall. Keep fighting. We need every state.
Just remember not to bring California politics
Well, you're certainly bringing the California attitude.
As another California inmate, it does get a tad annoying hearing that when the situation on the ground doesn't reflect voting records. We should be looking at our politics these days with a suspecting lens, especially here. I'm choosing to stay and fight for what I see as rightfully ours, but it's a little unfortunate that patriots here have to prove their worth to the rest of the country when most of us have never wavered from what is right.
I disagree. I think we need to fortify red states instead and prepare for secession if the military doesn't intervene on our behalf.
I'd prefer to dump all Biden voters into the shitstained streets of California and take every red county and turn into the New Republic of America
You can do that? I thought they send someone to your door like 10 times or whatever.
be patient, you might already live in a red state- that said, florida is great
As a Californian, that's my thinking too. With all the Dominion vote switching machines employed here, CA may very well be a red state. It was not too long ago.