Who said I’m trying to stop them from DECERTIFYING the election sugar tits? Was just asking where it says in the agreement that they will have the routers?
I read this as somebody will type in the password while the Cyber Ninja guys stand there with their eyes closed. Then CN gets to rummage through the file system. They get access, they don't get to go home with the machines.
if doctored they wont match wiith where the logs say that trafick came from... real hard to remove the digital finger prints on servers. to many locations world wide that host the difrent servers thayt info is coming from to get away with doctored router
You always should meet things with some sort of skepticism. These guys fought tooth and nail to not give these routers and splunklogs over and they just cave? Maybe it's just me but that seems fishy. Why go through all of that trouble just to give up? Doesn't make sense to me.
Is there any cyber nerd here who can explain why the routers are critical when they have had the better part of a year to potentially adulterate them? I’m not well versed in their inner workings so hopefully they are not likely to be tampered with.
The routers can reveal how the network in that building was configured. They can also keep a history of commands and changes that were done on the physical router.
It would show if there was VLANs or firewalls that were properly or improperly setup to prevent or allow network traffic from coming in or going out from specific internal subnetworks that all the election stuff was allegedly connected to. I think they know the election stuff was connected to the LAN, they just need proof that stuff on that LAN could potentially access the outside world
However, logwise the physical routers alone probably would not have any usable logs as too much time has elapsed - routers don't tend to be setup to store logs (they don't have massive storage space). Logs are usually setup to goto a syslog server and I am unsure if that was also in the scope of the subpoena.
The other stuff they had asked for in the subpoena like splunk logs and etc I can't speak on.
I'm not a techie, but I suspect the Senate made legal demand for the routers for two reasons:
It would be nice to have them, for the complete picture, but the physical routers are not crucial to proving the crime.
Good chance the county board would refuse to turn them over. Why? Only one reason explains why: withholding evidence of a crime. Withholding evidence of a crime is also a crime.
By making the demand, either they get additional evidence of the crime (even though other evidence already proves it), or they allow the criminal co-conspirators on the board to commit an additional crime.
Either way, the Senate has a no-lose position by making the demand. This agreement also has the county board dropping their bogus lawsuit, which would only waste time and money anyway.
One thing nobody is talking about: The Maricopa County board CAVED when the AG withheld money to their board, and not one second before.
The only question left at this point: Is the appointed Special Master going to provide for a real investigation, or will he also become a criminal co-conspirator?
The legal angle sounds logical. As this was a forensic audit afterall. If the machines were connected to the local network LAN (also maybe mobile WAN but thats another issue) then if you want to forensically trace all aspects of the election the network equipment used needs to be inspected. Wires, routers, switches, wireless repeaters, firewalls.
Anything and everything to see if there was an intrusion of any kind that would affect that network the machines were connected to.
Specifically what the routers will show are routing tables, and quite possibly vpn tunnels. Routers typically sit behind the firewall in a network. The default command history on most Cisco routers is 10 commands, so unless configured differently, that wouldn't be much help, you log in and do an enable, then any show command and you have just burned up 3 history slots.
The routing table will show a few things that are important.
1.) They will show where specific traffic goes, such as possible routes out of country or to very unusual destinations. For example why would the MCSO have the need for a router to be connected to anything not government related.
2.) VPN tunnels to places that shouldn't be connected.
3.) If these were connected to jump box or a central modem for the voting machines, the route to that device will be in there.
There is more but no need to get overly complicated here.
So the router does store some logs? Let’s say that the router was designated specifically for election cycles it should still have that information unless it was overwritten? I would hope they don’t use the router to watch YouTube after an election. I assume it falls under some umbrella as sensitive material.
Yep routers can store logs. There are many types of logs and log levels. One type of log is the command log. If any one is familiar with a command line it is the same concept (you can press the up arrow to call back issued commands).
In more advanced routers a command can be issued to see that command buffer. That buffer itself usually has a default number of "history" and in some cases can be configured to "remember" more or less commands. I know with cisco routers there are a few ways to clear/purge/delete/reset the command history.
Network traffic logs, over time, take up a considerable amount of space - obviously the more traffic there is the more logs are generated. Routers don't typically have a large storage space for logs (they certainly can store network traffic logs if configured to do so). Also having one router handle all logging is bad practice as it is a single point of failure. It is better to configure the router to send all logs to a log server that can easily be mirrored/replicated and backed up on a regular basis.
I doubt that the router was specifically deployed for the election. The router(s) in question I believe are for the local county government. So it is just part of the normal local government network that runs all the day to day things county wide. From the tax assessor to the sheriff etc.
When the election happened allegedly election equipment was connected to the LAN (Local Area Network) of whatever building they held the election equipment in. That LAN would have been connected to the county wide network and could potentially have access to the outside world. Once they have some one look at the router(s), they would be able to see how they were configured and be able to determine if network traffic would have been able to flow from election equipment to the outside world. (if there was mobile data involved that is a whole 'nother can of worms)
Depending on the skill of the person doing the changing and the degree of the operation they would be pulling off of course it would be possible. Sometimes things don't need to be hacked to get changed nor does it necessarily need to be malicious in nature. For example, an IT guy could get a work order to change a config or run some commands or upgrade the firmware, heck even swap a device out.
You can have threat scenarios from in person infiltration all the way up to remote execution, it all depends on the amount of resources you want to throw at one network closet in Arizona.
That's why its good to have good backups, monitoring and logging (and understand how to read them) of all network infrastructure regardless if its a small home business or a large government agency.
I think the routers can show if they were connected to the internet or not and if they sent out information over the internet.
Probably the biggest reason they wanted access is so they can say they thoroughly went through everything and every aspect of this.
To be honest I don't hold out much hope of anything happening really. I think a decertification is very unlikely :/ I would love to be wrong, but government will never move in a direction that stops their own corruption, so I don't expect this to be different.
This is concerning, but the cover up is often worse than the crime?
If the Patriots have it all anyway and the method for collecting that data was legal, then getting routers that are wiped or manipulated will only prove further corruption.
I read somewhere at some point, that they’ve already had everything they need and they’ve had it for a long time. Getting this equipment is only a formality, and if something is changed, they’ll know it. But they already had what they needed.
I think at this point they have all the proof they need that the AZ election was a complete fraud, and they can decertify with the info they already have. Now, they will be able to tell if the BOS messed with the routers in any way, which will really cook their goose. No matter what they find on the routers, the AZ election is proven a fraud. Now it's just a matter of catching more bad guys.
Yup, NOT GOOD. He apparently has lobbying ties with former Chair of the Maricopa County Supervisors, Clint Hickman AND he or his firm is also reported to have received money from Fakebook.
That's huge. Once Arizona falls they're all going to fall all and a lot faster Because now they know exactly where to look and exactly how they cheated. They have it all.
Ultimately, what you want from the routers are the routing tables. The routing tables should contain a log of the MAC addresses that accessed the DHCP to resolve IP addresses.
Non-technies: What does that mean? A MAC address is a unique numerical identifier on every network card. It's like a fingerprint for that computer. Ideally (without spoofing), no two MAC addresses from a network card are alike. The MAC address will tell you exactly which voting machine, PC, or server was associated to which IP, and the other IP's that communicated with it.
It will also tell you if these supposedly "closed" Dominion systems were PXE booting to another server or accessed the internet at all.
I like something someone said on another post...maybe the AZ audit report was held in order to allow the Cali recall to cheat bus same methods...and to NOT tip off the recall cheaters... don’t know if it’s true, but sounds like a plausible theory...
hate the word routers,, Severs OK.. Damn router lets you hook up multible computers.. like most are 48 ports,, you can have 1 or ? like 10.. Most I can see getting from them is IP address's.. We have Port Security turned on, so you try a diff computer or IP phone on already been used jack/port and off it goes, No connection, people are always screwing around in bldg's getting ports shut off LoL
I'm wondering why, after months & months of avoiding, obvuscating, and outright refusing to hand them over, they are doing it now. Perhaps the Dems were finally able to find someone who could wipe them clean (Like, with a cloth, lol)?
Good angle.
I can hear the screeching world-wide.
Where’s does it say that the ninjas will have the routers?
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/71353/Agreement
Where in the agreement does it say that they will have them?
That doesn’t make any sense! Why doesn’t it have to?
Who said I’m trying to stop them from DECERTIFYING the election sugar tits? Was just asking where it says in the agreement that they will have the routers?
I read this as somebody will type in the password while the Cyber Ninja guys stand there with their eyes closed. Then CN gets to rummage through the file system. They get access, they don't get to go home with the machines.
Wendy got the routers!!
I'm skeptical, but hope it's the originals and they are not doctored.
might be better if they have been tampered with. shows intent to cover up a crime.
if doctored they wont match wiith where the logs say that trafick came from... real hard to remove the digital finger prints on servers. to many locations world wide that host the difrent servers thayt info is coming from to get away with doctored router
How in the heck can you be skeptical and be a member of this community? Skeptics belong in TDW
You always should meet things with some sort of skepticism. These guys fought tooth and nail to not give these routers and splunklogs over and they just cave? Maybe it's just me but that seems fishy. Why go through all of that trouble just to give up? Doesn't make sense to me.
No she didn't..GWP has the story 100% backwards.
Is there any cyber nerd here who can explain why the routers are critical when they have had the better part of a year to potentially adulterate them? I’m not well versed in their inner workings so hopefully they are not likely to be tampered with.
The routers can reveal how the network in that building was configured. They can also keep a history of commands and changes that were done on the physical router.
It would show if there was VLANs or firewalls that were properly or improperly setup to prevent or allow network traffic from coming in or going out from specific internal subnetworks that all the election stuff was allegedly connected to. I think they know the election stuff was connected to the LAN, they just need proof that stuff on that LAN could potentially access the outside world
However, logwise the physical routers alone probably would not have any usable logs as too much time has elapsed - routers don't tend to be setup to store logs (they don't have massive storage space). Logs are usually setup to goto a syslog server and I am unsure if that was also in the scope of the subpoena.
The other stuff they had asked for in the subpoena like splunk logs and etc I can't speak on.
I'm not a techie, but I suspect the Senate made legal demand for the routers for two reasons:
It would be nice to have them, for the complete picture, but the physical routers are not crucial to proving the crime.
Good chance the county board would refuse to turn them over. Why? Only one reason explains why: withholding evidence of a crime. Withholding evidence of a crime is also a crime.
By making the demand, either they get additional evidence of the crime (even though other evidence already proves it), or they allow the criminal co-conspirators on the board to commit an additional crime.
Either way, the Senate has a no-lose position by making the demand. This agreement also has the county board dropping their bogus lawsuit, which would only waste time and money anyway.
One thing nobody is talking about: The Maricopa County board CAVED when the AG withheld money to their board, and not one second before.
The only question left at this point: Is the appointed Special Master going to provide for a real investigation, or will he also become a criminal co-conspirator?
Great reminder:
The legal angle sounds logical. As this was a forensic audit afterall. If the machines were connected to the local network LAN (also maybe mobile WAN but thats another issue) then if you want to forensically trace all aspects of the election the network equipment used needs to be inspected. Wires, routers, switches, wireless repeaters, firewalls.
Anything and everything to see if there was an intrusion of any kind that would affect that network the machines were connected to.
Specifically what the routers will show are routing tables, and quite possibly vpn tunnels. Routers typically sit behind the firewall in a network. The default command history on most Cisco routers is 10 commands, so unless configured differently, that wouldn't be much help, you log in and do an enable, then any show command and you have just burned up 3 history slots.
The routing table will show a few things that are important.
1.) They will show where specific traffic goes, such as possible routes out of country or to very unusual destinations. For example why would the MCSO have the need for a router to be connected to anything not government related.
2.) VPN tunnels to places that shouldn't be connected.
3.) If these were connected to jump box or a central modem for the voting machines, the route to that device will be in there.
There is more but no need to get overly complicated here.
So the router does store some logs? Let’s say that the router was designated specifically for election cycles it should still have that information unless it was overwritten? I would hope they don’t use the router to watch YouTube after an election. I assume it falls under some umbrella as sensitive material.
Yep routers can store logs. There are many types of logs and log levels. One type of log is the command log. If any one is familiar with a command line it is the same concept (you can press the up arrow to call back issued commands).
In more advanced routers a command can be issued to see that command buffer. That buffer itself usually has a default number of "history" and in some cases can be configured to "remember" more or less commands. I know with cisco routers there are a few ways to clear/purge/delete/reset the command history.
Network traffic logs, over time, take up a considerable amount of space - obviously the more traffic there is the more logs are generated. Routers don't typically have a large storage space for logs (they certainly can store network traffic logs if configured to do so). Also having one router handle all logging is bad practice as it is a single point of failure. It is better to configure the router to send all logs to a log server that can easily be mirrored/replicated and backed up on a regular basis.
I doubt that the router was specifically deployed for the election. The router(s) in question I believe are for the local county government. So it is just part of the normal local government network that runs all the day to day things county wide. From the tax assessor to the sheriff etc.
When the election happened allegedly election equipment was connected to the LAN (Local Area Network) of whatever building they held the election equipment in. That LAN would have been connected to the county wide network and could potentially have access to the outside world. Once they have some one look at the router(s), they would be able to see how they were configured and be able to determine if network traffic would have been able to flow from election equipment to the outside world. (if there was mobile data involved that is a whole 'nother can of worms)
Interesting, thanks for the run down. Would the configurations for the router be able to be changed without a previous footprint?
Depending on the skill of the person doing the changing and the degree of the operation they would be pulling off of course it would be possible. Sometimes things don't need to be hacked to get changed nor does it necessarily need to be malicious in nature. For example, an IT guy could get a work order to change a config or run some commands or upgrade the firmware, heck even swap a device out.
You can have threat scenarios from in person infiltration all the way up to remote execution, it all depends on the amount of resources you want to throw at one network closet in Arizona.
That's why its good to have good backups, monitoring and logging (and understand how to read them) of all network infrastructure regardless if its a small home business or a large government agency.
I think the routers can show if they were connected to the internet or not and if they sent out information over the internet.
Probably the biggest reason they wanted access is so they can say they thoroughly went through everything and every aspect of this.
To be honest I don't hold out much hope of anything happening really. I think a decertification is very unlikely :/ I would love to be wrong, but government will never move in a direction that stops their own corruption, so I don't expect this to be different.
They've had so much time with the equipment by now, I find it hard to believe there was no fuckery going on.
Fo sho tho looking forward to see what comes out of this.
This is concerning, but the cover up is often worse than the crime?
If the Patriots have it all anyway and the method for collecting that data was legal, then getting routers that are wiped or manipulated will only prove further corruption.
I'm confident things are going our way.
I read somewhere at some point, that they’ve already had everything they need and they’ve had it for a long time. Getting this equipment is only a formality, and if something is changed, they’ll know it. But they already had what they needed.
I think at this point they have all the proof they need that the AZ election was a complete fraud, and they can decertify with the info they already have. Now, they will be able to tell if the BOS messed with the routers in any way, which will really cook their goose. No matter what they find on the routers, the AZ election is proven a fraud. Now it's just a matter of catching more bad guys.
I hate to sticky another TGP article but some of the stickies are getting pretty old.
I think TGP is good actually. If someone blindly believes anything and everything they see, no matter from where, thats their own fault.
Idk. The go-between guy is the lobbyist for one of the county supervisors. Seems pretty sus.
Yup, NOT GOOD. He apparently has lobbying ties with former Chair of the Maricopa County Supervisors, Clint Hickman AND he or his firm is also reported to have received money from Fakebook.
see article at:
https://ussanews.com/News1/2021/09/18/az-senate-needs-to-answer-questions-regarding-special-master-who-will-oversee-router-investigation/
That's huge. Once Arizona falls they're all going to fall all and a lot faster Because now they know exactly where to look and exactly how they cheated. They have it all.
Cue the alien reveal in 3, 2, 1...
Tech guy here.
Ultimately, what you want from the routers are the routing tables. The routing tables should contain a log of the MAC addresses that accessed the DHCP to resolve IP addresses.
Non-technies: What does that mean? A MAC address is a unique numerical identifier on every network card. It's like a fingerprint for that computer. Ideally (without spoofing), no two MAC addresses from a network card are alike. The MAC address will tell you exactly which voting machine, PC, or server was associated to which IP, and the other IP's that communicated with it.
It will also tell you if these supposedly "closed" Dominion systems were PXE booting to another server or accessed the internet at all.
TL;DR: The routing tables contain the receipts.
Let'sgooooooo!
The $64,000 dollar question is, will anyone, anyone at all go to jail?
Well this situation has been confusing over the last 24 hours....
Will this delay the audit report?
I like something someone said on another post...maybe the AZ audit report was held in order to allow the Cali recall to cheat bus same methods...and to NOT tip off the recall cheaters... don’t know if it’s true, but sounds like a plausible theory...
I don't think so, from previous comments I heard a while back, it will be either a part two, or supplemental report.
No, court commanded the release 9/24 so Senate doesn't have a choice to delay.
They need to film everything.
Lol just thought this thought was funny…
Now that they have the routers, they will need to do a new audit to include this information. Audit now expected to release Q4 2022
So, does this mean that the Maricopa county board of elections just completed the data scrub and pencil whipping? /s
That's my thinking, may not have scrubbed, but definitely had more than enough time to go through themselves to at the very least minimize damage.
I think if they out and out scrubbed, would be a huge indicator something was amiss. Looking forward to results though.
Why do we need a third party to partner with another third party to review routers?
hate the word routers,, Severs OK.. Damn router lets you hook up multible computers.. like most are 48 ports,, you can have 1 or ? like 10.. Most I can see getting from them is IP address's.. We have Port Security turned on, so you try a diff computer or IP phone on already been used jack/port and off it goes, No connection, people are always screwing around in bldg's getting ports shut off LoL
I'm wondering why, after months & months of avoiding, obvuscating, and outright refusing to hand them over, they are doing it now. Perhaps the Dems were finally able to find someone who could wipe them clean (Like, with a cloth, lol)?
Because the state was going to withold like $750m
Ohhhh, that would hurt.
Where does it say the ninjas get access to the routers?
She said next Friday, did she not?
surely it will be delayed again now they have this massive router thing to study and include in the report?
Someone mentioned they are likely to release that as a follow up.