Doesn't matter what anything looks like on video, though. It is simply impossible to say either way, especially with an untrained eye. So many factors tie in. Power loss doesn't mean engine failure. Wind and current can take over. Condition of rudder. etc etc.
A mile of water that it could drift on. But it steers right into a small area where the support is. Sometimes critical thinking is connecting dots and seeing the obvious.
Do not expect ChinaJoe to say or do anything other than his masters tell him to.
Commenting on my original post here. After seeing a lot of video of the incident and expert maritime professionals who posted video of the incident start to finish, I'm now confidently leaning toward this ship was electronicky compromised, and intentionally steered into the bridge support pier due to the tremendous amount of "coincidences" that lead this ship to crash into the pier thus brining down then entire structure. Giving something time to marinade is a good thing.
It only needs tugs to get into the channel then there job is done. The only boat that might have been near would be the pilot boat to recover the pilot as soon as the ship cleared the channel.
"Multiple intel sources", Sorry the "sources close to xxx say" BS is not going to be accepted. Give actual sources, and proof. Fearmongering, not going to fly right now. Facts fly.
Have to respectfully disagree. My mentor and a few family members live in that community. And Logan has a damn good track record. Can't go on the record on that kind of thing if you want to stay employed and/or breathing.
I will give this the request 72 hours before I start making assumptions. Right now I don't know what happened. I want to hear from the pilot on what transpired on the bridge. That will be a big help in determining wtf happened. I really like her but I don't like the I have sources that said xxx.
Multiple intel sources: Baltimore bridge collapse was an “absolutely brilliant strategic attack” on US critical infrastructure - most likely cyber - & our intel agencies know it. In information warfare terms, they just divided the US along the Mason Dixon line exactly like the Civil War.
Second busiest strategic roadway in the nation for hazardous material now down for 4-5 years - which is how long they say it will take to recover. Bridge was built specifically to move hazardous material - fuel, diesel, propane gas, nitrogen, highly flammable materials, chemicals and oversized cargo that cannot fit in the tunnels - that supply chain now crippled.
Make no mistake: this was an extraordinary attack in terms of planning, timing & execution.
The two critical components on that bridge are the two load-bearing pylons on each end, closest to the shore. They are bigger, thicker and deeper than anything else. These are the anchor points and they knew that hitting either one one of them would be a fatal wound to the integrity of the bridge.
Half a mile of bridge went in the river - likely you will have to build a new one. Also caused so much damage to the structural integrity of the bottom concrete part that you cannot see & won’t know until they take the wreckage apart. Structural destruction likely absolute.
Attack perfectly targeted.
“They have figured out how to bring us down. As long as you stay away from the teeth of the US military, you can pick the US apart. We are arrogant and ignorant - lethal combination. Obama said they would fundamentally change America and they did. We are in a free-fall ride on a roller coaster right now - no brakes - just picking up speed.”
The footage shows the cargo ship never got in the approach lane in the channel. You have to be in the channel before you get into that turn. Location was precise/deliberate: chose a bend in the river where you have to slow down and commit yourself - once you are committed in that area there is not enough room to maneuver.
Should have had a harbor pilot to pilot the boat. You are not supposed to traverse any obstacles without the harbor pilot.
They chose a full moon so they would have maximum tidal shift - rise and fall. Brisk flow in that river on a normal day & have had a lot of rain recently so water was already moving along at a good pace.
Hit it with enough kinetic energy to knock the load-bearing pylon out from under the highway - which fatally weakens the span and then 50 percent of the bridge fell into the water.
All these factors when you look at it - this is how you teach people how to do this type of attack and there are so few people left in the system who know this. We have a Junior varsity team on the field.
Tremendous navigational obstruction. Huge logistical nightmare to clean this up. Number of dead is tragic but not the whole measure of the attack.
That kind-of bridge constantly under repair - always at night because there is so much traffic and they cannot obstruct that during the day. So concern is for repair guys who were on foot (out of their vehicles) working who may now be in the water - 48 degrees at most at this time of year.
When you choke off Baltimore you have cut the main north-south hazardous corridor (I95) in half. Now has to go around the city - or go somewhere else.
To move some of that cargo through the tunnel you may be able to get a permit but those are slow to get and require an escort system that is expensive and has to be done at night.
For every $100 dollars that goes into the city, $12 comes from shipping. Believe this will cripple the city of Baltimore at a time when they do not have the resources to recover.
1:23 PM · Mar 26, 2024
·
Keep in mind it will be 6 or more months just to get the old bridge cleared so that the Port of Boston can operate. That takes out the 2nd busiest port on the East coast, nothing moving in or out until this mess is cleaned up. They also will need to remove the approaches (the part left standing, as well as the pylons and start over. Like Lara says, this was well planned.
This is something that had been suggested when the Evergreen got stuck in the Suez canal as well. Most of these large container (and tanker) ships are heavily computer controlled with GPS guidance. Not sure about this one that hit the Key Bridge as it was a bit older. But not something that is impossible, especially given the way the ship appeared to turn directly head-on into the bridge support.
The technology to remotely control ships has been in place for a while. So the possibility that the ship was "hacked" should not be off the table. I inspect ships for a living - retired Coast Guard officer....I sure hope the investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) do their due diligence.
I mean. If they can remotely take over a journalist's car to crash him into a tree and kill him, I don't see why they can't do the same with a ship. How much of these modern shipping vessels is automated?
They most certainly can. Modern ships can be remotely operated from a shore base. The technology has been in place for awhile. At least one company that I know of has tested the feasibility of remotely operating their ships with just a tiny crew on board. I am a retired Coast Guard officer who makes his living now as a ship inspector.
Second busiest strategic roadway in the nation for hazardous material now down for 4-5 years - which is how long they say it will take to recover. Bridge was built specifically to move hazardous material - fuel, diesel, propane gas, nitrogen, highly flammable materials, chemicals and oversized cargo that cannot fit in the tunnels - that supply chain now crippled.
Those types of loads will just go around the city using the Western side of the Baltimore beltway. It will add up to an hour of travel time. Inconvenient, yes. But crippled? No.
I wouldn't be suprised if a ferry pops up to help the hyper local traffic. A lot of stuff gets shuffled between both sides of the water, as they're usually well connected.
The biggest disruption is if ships aren't allowed under the bridge to get to and leave the Port of Baltimore. A lot of stuff flows into there, including cars.
every thing is 'fly by wire' now. computers control damn near all systems. navigation is done by GPS. its 'fail-safe' & there is no direct physical link like cables to throttle & rudder control like the old days even the bow thrusters...
soooo gps gets hacked, critical systems like steerage get wormed & the ship has zero control at the helm. step on the brakes & crank the wheel all you want. it does nothing like driving on an icy lake with bald tires, more or less
no problem. i am not a maritime pilot but i do have a grasp of how fucked we have become letting technology do all the thinking for the masses. trains planes ships & automobiles (Grampa: Dong? where is my automobile? Dong: [makes car screeching & crashing noises] laughing... )
I am a ship inspector! The answer is absolutely - modern ships can be remotely operated. The DALI was built in 2015 so I would say, more likely than not, it could be remotely controlled.
Only 9 years old? Sounds young for a giant ship. Serious question: Do giant 9 year old ships often have serious problems that result in billowing smoke and loss of control?
Large ships have collisions fairly often, and they’ve hit bridges before. This ship had a collision in 2016. Are all ship collisions from hacking? Or only the ones we want to be?
Excellent work anon. If I had the time I would calculate the probability of it happening in 2024 based on increased technology/safety/past events/countries bridge collapses occurred in, etc.
edit: I asked chat gpt to list notable U.S. bridge collapses due to a ship collision:
Here are all the examples of notable incidents of bridge collapses in the United States due to ships colliding with bridges:
Sunshine Skyway Bridge Collision (1980): The Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida collapsed on May 9, 1980, after a cargo ship collided with it during a severe storm, resulting in significant loss of life and damage to the bridge.
Old Sunshine Skyway Bridge Collision (1976): On October 22, 1976, the "MV George Prince" collided with the old Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida, causing a section of the bridge to collapse.
Huey P. Long Bridge Collision (1940): In February 1940, the SS Washington collided with the Huey P. Long Bridge over the Mississippi River near New Orleans, Louisiana, causing the collapse of a portion of the bridge.
Hatchet Point Bridge Collision (1952): In November 1952, the SS Markay collided with the Hatchet Point Bridge over the Columbia River near Longview, Washington, resulting in the collapse of a span of the bridge.
Bulkeley Bridge Collision (1976): In July 1976, a tanker collided with the Bulkeley Bridge over the Connecticut River in Hartford, Connecticut, causing damage to the bridge and necessitating its closure for repairs.
These incidents represent significant events in the history of bridge collapses in the United States caused by ships colliding with bridges. Each event had its own impact on infrastructure, safety measures, and maritime regulations.
Industrial accidents tickle my autism. The root cause almost always ends up being cost cutting done by the company/companies involved, but it was a foreign crew so maybe. I just like to remind people that things like this DO occur without any grand conspiracy required, just human incompetence. I’m waiting for much, much more info before I could say this was intentional, but that’s just me.
I mean, it doesn't even need to be hacked. Considering all the shit coming over the border wouldn't be hard to get foreign military assets here, plant something on the rudder underwater that would disable it wait for it to get close to the bridge and then remote detonate or whatever they could have done.
If you watch the video posted on the board last night, it is clear the boat steered itself right into the support beam. Looked completely planned.
Doesn't matter what anything looks like on video, though. It is simply impossible to say either way, especially with an untrained eye. So many factors tie in. Power loss doesn't mean engine failure. Wind and current can take over. Condition of rudder. etc etc.
Glad to see critical thinking is still a thing. I hate this jump to conclusions with zero evidence thing.
Crawling to conclusions might be more thorough and leave less room for error, but jumping to conclusions is way more fun.
A mile of water that it could drift on. But it steers right into a small area where the support is. Sometimes critical thinking is connecting dots and seeing the obvious.
Do not expect ChinaJoe to say or do anything other than his masters tell him to.
Commenting on my original post here. After seeing a lot of video of the incident and expert maritime professionals who posted video of the incident start to finish, I'm now confidently leaning toward this ship was electronicky compromised, and intentionally steered into the bridge support pier due to the tremendous amount of "coincidences" that lead this ship to crash into the pier thus brining down then entire structure. Giving something time to marinade is a good thing.
One main comment I saw was where is the vessels escort boat ?
It only needs tugs to get into the channel then there job is done. The only boat that might have been near would be the pilot boat to recover the pilot as soon as the ship cleared the channel.
meanwhile some derps are claiming the ship steered in that direction because they dropped anchor and it pulled the ship that direction.
SMH... the things people will believe in their normalcy bias.
Shall we go to war and begin killing a lot of people?
To do nothing is a suicide.
Where to place the blame?
Indeed.
"Multiple intel sources", Sorry the "sources close to xxx say" BS is not going to be accepted. Give actual sources, and proof. Fearmongering, not going to fly right now. Facts fly.
Have to respectfully disagree. My mentor and a few family members live in that community. And Logan has a damn good track record. Can't go on the record on that kind of thing if you want to stay employed and/or breathing.
I will give this the request 72 hours before I start making assumptions. Right now I don't know what happened. I want to hear from the pilot on what transpired on the bridge. That will be a big help in determining wtf happened. I really like her but I don't like the I have sources that said xxx.
Live in what community?
Intelligence community
I tend to take Lara Logan seriously.
Totally fine, I like her but I do like to get more info before making a determination.
Multiple intel sources: Baltimore bridge collapse was an “absolutely brilliant strategic attack” on US critical infrastructure - most likely cyber - & our intel agencies know it. In information warfare terms, they just divided the US along the Mason Dixon line exactly like the Civil War.
Second busiest strategic roadway in the nation for hazardous material now down for 4-5 years - which is how long they say it will take to recover. Bridge was built specifically to move hazardous material - fuel, diesel, propane gas, nitrogen, highly flammable materials, chemicals and oversized cargo that cannot fit in the tunnels - that supply chain now crippled.
Make no mistake: this was an extraordinary attack in terms of planning, timing & execution.
The two critical components on that bridge are the two load-bearing pylons on each end, closest to the shore. They are bigger, thicker and deeper than anything else. These are the anchor points and they knew that hitting either one one of them would be a fatal wound to the integrity of the bridge.
Half a mile of bridge went in the river - likely you will have to build a new one. Also caused so much damage to the structural integrity of the bottom concrete part that you cannot see & won’t know until they take the wreckage apart. Structural destruction likely absolute.
Attack perfectly targeted.
“They have figured out how to bring us down. As long as you stay away from the teeth of the US military, you can pick the US apart. We are arrogant and ignorant - lethal combination. Obama said they would fundamentally change America and they did. We are in a free-fall ride on a roller coaster right now - no brakes - just picking up speed.”
The footage shows the cargo ship never got in the approach lane in the channel. You have to be in the channel before you get into that turn. Location was precise/deliberate: chose a bend in the river where you have to slow down and commit yourself - once you are committed in that area there is not enough room to maneuver.
Should have had a harbor pilot to pilot the boat. You are not supposed to traverse any obstacles without the harbor pilot.
They chose a full moon so they would have maximum tidal shift - rise and fall. Brisk flow in that river on a normal day & have had a lot of rain recently so water was already moving along at a good pace.
Hit it with enough kinetic energy to knock the load-bearing pylon out from under the highway - which fatally weakens the span and then 50 percent of the bridge fell into the water.
All these factors when you look at it - this is how you teach people how to do this type of attack and there are so few people left in the system who know this. We have a Junior varsity team on the field.
Tremendous navigational obstruction. Huge logistical nightmare to clean this up. Number of dead is tragic but not the whole measure of the attack.
That kind-of bridge constantly under repair - always at night because there is so much traffic and they cannot obstruct that during the day. So concern is for repair guys who were on foot (out of their vehicles) working who may now be in the water - 48 degrees at most at this time of year.
When you choke off Baltimore you have cut the main north-south hazardous corridor (I95) in half. Now has to go around the city - or go somewhere else.
To move some of that cargo through the tunnel you may be able to get a permit but those are slow to get and require an escort system that is expensive and has to be done at night.
For every $100 dollars that goes into the city, $12 comes from shipping. Believe this will cripple the city of Baltimore at a time when they do not have the resources to recover. 1:23 PM · Mar 26, 2024 ·
Keep in mind it will be 6 or more months just to get the old bridge cleared so that the Port of Boston can operate. That takes out the 2nd busiest port on the East coast, nothing moving in or out until this mess is cleaned up. They also will need to remove the approaches (the part left standing, as well as the pylons and start over. Like Lara says, this was well planned.
Good comment. Good starting points.
This is something that had been suggested when the Evergreen got stuck in the Suez canal as well. Most of these large container (and tanker) ships are heavily computer controlled with GPS guidance. Not sure about this one that hit the Key Bridge as it was a bit older. But not something that is impossible, especially given the way the ship appeared to turn directly head-on into the bridge support.
The technology to remotely control ships has been in place for a while. So the possibility that the ship was "hacked" should not be off the table. I inspect ships for a living - retired Coast Guard officer....I sure hope the investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) do their due diligence.
Accident investigation lonk: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA24MM031.aspx
TLAfag Here.
Interestingly, Q drop 3530 FACT letter link includes the TLA GPS in it. This points out the importance of defining the meaning of TLA's (and FLA's).
TLA = Three Letter Acronym
FLA = Four Letter Acronym
FACT = Foundation for Accountability and Civic Trust
GPS = Global Positioning Satellite or, in the case of Q3530, Global Policy Solutions.
interesting! Do you or anyone have an updated Q post site? I know it sounds weird but both the sites I used to go to are down now
My favorite is and always has been https://qagg.news
Looooooots of fun tools to use once you learn how to use them!!!
Are they fixing to blame this on Putin, so they can start WW3?
No silly, this is President Trump's fault I'm sure.
Shoot. How could I not realize that!?
Ship is from Singapore. Not sure that would even sniff Putin.
Captain is Ukrainian.
I was thinking, maybe they would blame him for hacking or hijacking it or something. Hopefully not.
I mean. If they can remotely take over a journalist's car to crash him into a tree and kill him, I don't see why they can't do the same with a ship. How much of these modern shipping vessels is automated?
They most certainly can. Modern ships can be remotely operated from a shore base. The technology has been in place for awhile. At least one company that I know of has tested the feasibility of remotely operating their ships with just a tiny crew on board. I am a retired Coast Guard officer who makes his living now as a ship inspector.
Those types of loads will just go around the city using the Western side of the Baltimore beltway. It will add up to an hour of travel time. Inconvenient, yes. But crippled? No.
I wouldn't be suprised if a ferry pops up to help the hyper local traffic. A lot of stuff gets shuffled between both sides of the water, as they're usually well connected.
The biggest disruption is if ships aren't allowed under the bridge to get to and leave the Port of Baltimore. A lot of stuff flows into there, including cars.
Who could successfully pull this off….. The SEA EYE EHHH!!!!
Unless the actual literal crew speaks out no one will ever know what went wrong.
And you can safely bet everyone speculating is being retarded for clicks.
Can someone who is knowledgeable in the shipping industry elaborate how a ship can come under a cyber attack?
every thing is 'fly by wire' now. computers control damn near all systems. navigation is done by GPS. its 'fail-safe' & there is no direct physical link like cables to throttle & rudder control like the old days even the bow thrusters...
soooo gps gets hacked, critical systems like steerage get wormed & the ship has zero control at the helm. step on the brakes & crank the wheel all you want. it does nothing like driving on an icy lake with bald tires, more or less
Just like newer cars!
eggs-actly!
Thank you for your response!
no problem. i am not a maritime pilot but i do have a grasp of how fucked we have become letting technology do all the thinking for the masses. trains planes ships & automobiles (Grampa: Dong? where is my automobile? Dong: [makes car screeching & crashing noises] laughing... )
All the big ships in the world are networked by satellite now. If you're networked, you can be hacked.
I am a ship inspector! The answer is absolutely - modern ships can be remotely operated. The DALI was built in 2015 so I would say, more likely than not, it could be remotely controlled.
Only 9 years old? Sounds young for a giant ship. Serious question: Do giant 9 year old ships often have serious problems that result in billowing smoke and loss of control?
No!
I bet it was, against the ship.
Large ships have collisions fairly often, and they’ve hit bridges before. This ship had a collision in 2016. Are all ship collisions from hacking? Or only the ones we want to be?
Do you have a list I can look at somewhere?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S095183202200549X
https://conference-service.com/pianc-panama/documents/agenda/data/full_papers/full_paper_46.pdf
Not lists, but the data exists and is tracked. Worldwide between 1960 and 2015 35 Major bridges collapsed due to ship strikes with 342 fatalities.
Excellent work anon. If I had the time I would calculate the probability of it happening in 2024 based on increased technology/safety/past events/countries bridge collapses occurred in, etc.
edit: I asked chat gpt to list notable U.S. bridge collapses due to a ship collision:
Here are all the examples of notable incidents of bridge collapses in the United States due to ships colliding with bridges:
Sunshine Skyway Bridge Collision (1980): The Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida collapsed on May 9, 1980, after a cargo ship collided with it during a severe storm, resulting in significant loss of life and damage to the bridge.
Old Sunshine Skyway Bridge Collision (1976): On October 22, 1976, the "MV George Prince" collided with the old Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Florida, causing a section of the bridge to collapse.
Huey P. Long Bridge Collision (1940): In February 1940, the SS Washington collided with the Huey P. Long Bridge over the Mississippi River near New Orleans, Louisiana, causing the collapse of a portion of the bridge.
Hatchet Point Bridge Collision (1952): In November 1952, the SS Markay collided with the Hatchet Point Bridge over the Columbia River near Longview, Washington, resulting in the collapse of a span of the bridge.
Bulkeley Bridge Collision (1976): In July 1976, a tanker collided with the Bulkeley Bridge over the Connecticut River in Hartford, Connecticut, causing damage to the bridge and necessitating its closure for repairs.
These incidents represent significant events in the history of bridge collapses in the United States caused by ships colliding with bridges. Each event had its own impact on infrastructure, safety measures, and maritime regulations.
Industrial accidents tickle my autism. The root cause almost always ends up being cost cutting done by the company/companies involved, but it was a foreign crew so maybe. I just like to remind people that things like this DO occur without any grand conspiracy required, just human incompetence. I’m waiting for much, much more info before I could say this was intentional, but that’s just me.
Well, that sounds about right. Scary sh*t.
Possibly, but the following YT link with a shipping professional has the most plausible explanation I've heard ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZbUXewlQDk&t=21s&ab_channel=WhatisGoingonWithShipping%3F
I mean, it doesn't even need to be hacked. Considering all the shit coming over the border wouldn't be hard to get foreign military assets here, plant something on the rudder underwater that would disable it wait for it to get close to the bridge and then remote detonate or whatever they could have done.
48 hour rule need to apply here. Let's not panic.
No panic. Just reality. Baltimore is a total sh*thole, but it's also a major harbor and has been one for over 250 years.