I had a Coronary Artery Calcium scan (CAC scan) done in January of 2022. My score was bad, 563, indicating likely significant coronary artery disease. A few months ago, I tried the high dose Vitamin C (4,000 mg/day) and L-Lysine (4,000 mg/day) for four weeks. This therapy had been mentioned on GAW a few times in the past year or so. I had a follow-up CAC scan done on Tuesday, my new score is 698. I'm not too happy. This therapy may have worked for some people, but seems pretty clear it didn't work for me. I also did a round of a lemon juice/garlic elixer earlier in the year. If anyone else has tried the Vit C-Lysine therapy and have results to report, please post here. Thank you. (now I need to figure out what to do with a few bottles of Vitamin C and Lysine; I had planned on doing more rounds of the "therapy" if it had shown ANY positive results. I guess it could be argued "well, just think how high it would have been if you didn't do that therapy!" :) )
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Thank you for sharing. These reports are important too.
Sorry to hear that fren. I sure hope everything works out for you. I assume you followed the schedule since they absorb differently with different foods. Note, I only know about this from what I have learned from this site with no other significant research. Curiosity.
Yes, I followed the "empty stomach" rule :) It definitely cuts down on between-meal snacks!
Vitamin K2 is your best bet in this situation. Take it with vitamin D3. I recommend this supplement: https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02040/vitamins-d-and-k-with-sea-iodine
Also try magnesium. It is very good for calcium balancing especially in your veins. So much so that I would argue that Magnesium is the most important nutrient for your blood vessels. The forms you want to take are Magnesium Glycinate or Citrate(this one makes you poop if you take higher doses as FYI) or if you want liquied you can get Magnesium Chloride which can be added to your water and you can drink it throught the day(what I do).
Also, check out these 2 videos from one of the best naturopathic doctors on the internet, Dr. Berg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdryNkArwg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hkWSdtVGcg
I've also been taking Mg and K2/D3. My wife thinks it might be all the carbs I consume :)
Carbs corrode artery walls, then your body sends plaque to patch it up, repeat over and over and it builds up, is how I was told it works by a youtube doc
u/winn
Once again the name checks out. You're right on the money
the vitamin c probably has made your vascular system softer and more flexible, and it has benefits for your immune system etc, and it's not so expensive. If you have access to i.v. chelation, I noticed my chest pain went away for over a year after one session. Went to an osteopath, all the tests including new patient workup, ecg, blood work, was $1300 out of pocket, but subsequent visits are under 200. I'm working on getting a case of real amyl nitrite but minimum order is 2,500 ampules so looking at $5k. Inhaling amyl nitrite converts to a blast of nitric oxide in the blood, relaxing vessels, that can improve the vascular system. A daily aspirin also is shown to double your nitric oxide levels after several months, even the low dose baby aspirin. eating red beets, taking the amino acid L-arginine also boost nitric-oxide
Would Nattokinase help?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9441630/
Nattokinase helps with blood pressure and clots, however not much help with calcification.
You need to look at vitamin D3 taken together with vitamin K2 as well as Magnesium, all of which help balance calcium in your body.
👆
Magnesium balances out calcium in the body. Magnesium makes things bendy, you may need to sit down so take at night.
The heart muscle loves magnesium. If you get palpitations or irregular beats, be sure and take some. Doesn't hurt to take daily.
https://inteligentvitaminc.com/cart/ My husband did the protocol. This is the C we got . It was longer than a month. He is now on maintenance forever. IT REALLY DOES WORK. I suggest you try again and make sure you do it exactly and just use this formula. Doctors are amazed as his widow maker was blocked and he already had triple bypass surgery 9 years earlier and now he works out, swims, bikes and is not even short of breath.
Excellent u/Beemerchik1807 !!!
@ u/PhDinNY I had one other person message me privately also saying they did not get good results. I recommended upping the dose on both to 3000 mg each, two times per day.
Dr. Linus Pauling recommended doses of vitamin C as high as 15,000 mg so it's safe.
If your stomach can take it, then take them both together when you wake up followed by just water and no food for two hours. Do the same before bed with no food at least two hours prior.
If this protocol was bunk, there is a precisely 0% chance that Beemerchik1807's husband would've got the doctor-baffling results they did.
Don't give up fren! You have nothing to lose besides a little $ and life is not measured in $.
How about trying fasting?
My mom fasted 3 days a week (24+ hours) and it cleared up for her in two months.
maybe some additional info for you - maybe not - just posting after reading it….might also look into liposomal C, or switch brands - I use powdered C from Bronson
Make sure that you don't ingest proteins or carbs for 2 hours after taking the C & Lysine. This was an issue for me, so I take my C/Lysine together in the morning & before I go to sleep. I didn't complete a full month when I did it because I ran out of C. I just started another round.
It was recommended to take the C and Lysine separately because I think they interfere with each other (in uptake)
I got this info from u/JohnTitor17, who I refer to as my favorite time traveler in jest.
Here's his post where it says that it's okay to take them together.
https://greatawakening.win/p/17txoa5HaW/once-again-icymi--how-i-100-clea/c/
I pray for a positive turnaround in your situation fren.
Hi u/PhDinNY
Please check out the latest post I did on it below. This has a bunch of testimonials and FAQ. Nobody wants this to work for you more than I do Fren so please read it carefully and be a real stickler about carb and protein competition.
It's perfectly fine (and more convenient) to take them both together, although it's rough on some people stomachs.
https://greatawakening.win/p/1995CSTfQl/how-i-100-cleared-out-my-fatheri/
Thank you for tagging me u/The3rdKey I would not have seen this post.
The entire secret here frens lies in avoiding carb and protein competition with vitamin C and lysine.
You could call it the Keystone 😉
Thanks for chiming in time traveler. This is awesome info and I want everyone that can benefit from it to get the truth. I hope all is well with you and yours my fren.
I did the separate dosing and separation in time from any food. Perhaps some people have a physiological difference that will allow this to work, and others, not.
The way I read it was that protein interferes with lysine uptake, and carbs interfere with Vitamin C uptake. The recommendation was to take separate two hours apart since they can upset your stomach, but if they don't upset your stomach you can take together.
I did the separate dosing.
My wife had to do separate dosing also, as it upset her stomach.
This made me curious so I started searching on different types of plaque that cause blockages and what is lysine effective on. There are differences and I was not aware of this. Still, the limited published research on this topic indicates lysine and vitamin C are effective. Calcified plaques are Made up of mostly calcium and Less likely to cause a plaque rupture or heart attack. Lysine is primarily thought to be beneficial for reducing plaque buildup related to lipoprotein(a) (Lp(a)) in the arteries. There are articles the say it's helpful for calcified plaques. I would continue to take it if I was in your position. There's enough info to support taking it. I have been for almost a year now and it's an easy and inexpensive thing to do. It may help you in the long-term. I hope this gets better for you.
Perhaps I'll up my daily vitamin C, and add lysine. I only took supplemental lysine during the regimen. Thanks for your input.
Vitamin C dose related. https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-C#cardiovascular-disease-prevention Lysine dose related. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30661148/
You can take as much Vitamin C as you like without ill effects. You will just piss out the excess.
Thanks for the update. I was taught during the Linus Pauling years when he recommended taking large doses of Vitamin C to prevent colds. I was in dental school at the time, Georgetown, and received many of the same pharmacology lectures as the medical students. Things do change and I retired in 2015. I practiced oral/maxillofacial surgery and was honored (and proud) to practice a profession that bridged the gap between dentistry and medicine. Things do change and I am always open to learning updated information. Thanks again.
I think I am most disappointed that it didn't work for me is because I really wanted to report on it so others could hopefully get the same result!
I tried the Hulda Clarke therapy regime and the borax therapy for arthritus, neither of them did anything.
I think these "alternative medicine" therapies/treatments have mixed results, but without the side-effects of "conventional" therapies/treatments. Because of that, it doesn't seem like it hurts to try them. I was really hoping some improvement would have happened, and then I was going to post my results to Facebook. I guess there's a reason it is not more widely known.
Big question is, did you change your diet? You need to eliminate all inflammatory foods. Seed oils are the worst when it comes to artery inflammation along with sugar. If you want to see the fastest results in clearing your arteries, look up Dr. Esselstyn and his diet. He treats patients who were sent home to die from artery disease by their cardiologists. His diet forbids all oils and all animal products. After 3 years your arteries will be 50% or better on reduction in plaque. It worked for me.
My wife has been on my case about consuming too many carbs :) The animal fat factor seems to be highly controversial, with some claiming there is not problem with them, and others (mainly the conventional cardiologists) that they are the huge problem.
The animal fat controversy started with a guy named Ansel Keys in the late 50s after Eisenhower had two heart attacks while in office. Keys wrote papers saying saturated animal fats and cholesterol were the cause of artery disease
He threw out any studies that contradicted his theory. Soon, the American Heart Association adopted his theory and pushed for seed oils and low cholesterol. Heart disease exploded after that. Heart disease tracks parallel to the increase use of seed oils. Proctor and Gamble who produced Crisco oil funded Keys’ research, and the AHA just happened to win a radio contest sponsored by P&G awarding them $1M. Right after that, they supported Keys.
There is an important piece of information you don’t know and can’t know. Over the three year period between scans your score might have been over 698 at some point.
I don’t know enough to say what you should do at this point. But, with that much elapsed time between data points I don’t think it’s possible to make a fair conclusion on the vitamin C - Lysine protocol. It might, at the very least, prevent new plaque deposits from forming and eventually calcifying.
Yes, I realize that it could have gotten much worse, and then better. What is interesting is that before I did the therapy, my blood pressure had gone down to a good level, possibly from taking Vitamin K, but I don't know. I'm going to start doing regular blood pressure testing again to see how it changes.
I did the protocol for six weeks, taking the Lysine and vitamin-C upon awakening and mid afternoon, after 3 hours of fasting, followed by 2 hours of fasting (at least). Every morning, I took my blood pressure, which is high, and for which I am taking medication.
After two weeks, my BP went down about 20 points (systolic, the higher number) and 5-10 points (diastolic). This drop has persisted throughout the remain time and after I finished the protocol.
I did not have any other tests, except confirming that my blood pressure stayed low during subsequent Doctor visits.
I didn't get any benefit either..
I'm wondering if people are fasting before and after taking the lysine and C together? That does make a difference in results.
I didn't
Ty for sharing your experience. I did one round of the lemon garlic proactively but no blood testing. Not sure I felt any different.
Onward and upward! Thanks for the update.
For artery blockage you can try Wood Ear Fungus. This is the black fungus in a typical Chinese Hot and Sour soup. If you are doing it strictly for treatment of your artery I would suggest making a tea out of it or boiling it and just drinking it as soup. It probably won't taste great but it's for your health. I know of a few people who needed surgery and/or took medication that no longer needed either. Doctors were always amazed by a much cleaner bill of health.
You should be able to find it at any Asian grocery store. It will be a dried good that you can rehydrate. It's probably best if you can get ones that are not a product of China.
I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work for you. My family has done the lysine treatment successfully, but not for heart disease.
My understanding is that it specifically works for arterial blockages. The lyzine actively dissolves the calcium buildup in the arteries. The vitamin c is there to repair the damage done to the arteries that caused the blockage in the first place, typically a tear, scratch or other issue within the vein or artery.
I've not heard of a specific home remedy for heart disease, i'm sorry. I don't have advice for that for you.
If I do hear of something I will try and get you the information.
Ok, thanks. I guess it's like any treatment, some work for some, and not for others. I was really hoping the follow-up CAC scan would show an improvement, and then I was going to tell all about it on FB :)
You might try K2 & D3. The K2 is supposed to take the calcium out of the blood system and put it in the bones. Win, win.
I have been doing daily K2 and D3 for a few years. The higher C, and additional Lysine, was the change.
I also tried the vitaminC -lysine thing but stopped after a week as my eyes started to not focus right. Not sure if it was related, but I stopped anyway.
Thanks for the update.
I don’t recall reading that this therapy has any impact on CAC scores. Calcium once deposited doesn’t tend to diminish.
The CAC scores are supposedly proportional to artery blockage. My higher blood pressure suggested that the blockage wasn't reduced. I'll start doing regular blood pressure readings to see if other factors, like vitamin K, can bring it down.
Don’t forget vitamin K2 is fat soluble just like vitamins A, D, and E. That means for your body to break them down and absorb them you must take them with some kind food that contains fat.
Before you give up. Go to a company called Bulk Supplements and try their L-Lysine powder and vitamin C. I order Sodium Ascorbate “vitamin C” and Ascorbyl Palmitate “Ester C” powder. I have ordered pills in the past that on inquiry found that they were mostly filler. I take the L-Lysine mixed with juice on an empty stomach in the morning and evening, I then mix the Vitamin C powders “no real taste” with my tea and drink it throughout the day.
My conclusion is that the vitamin C - Lysine therapy was wishful thinking. I think it it really worked we would have heard about it. I think those claims that were posted were just made up. Some people get a rise out of stuff like that.
K2 in Some people can make calcium precipitate out of the blood but not necessarily "go back into the bones". My father-in-law's results were real. If you're serious about getting results then I would drop the vitamin K2 for a few weeks and just do vitamin C and lysine.
This is not some mass hysteria. It works.
I think the Vit C and Lysine thing is for plaque buildup in the arteries, and is meant to reduce that. Calcium in the artery walls I believe is a different thing. Just my 2 cents. I get a heart nuclear stress treadmill test once a year, along with a cardiac echo. (every year since a serious heart attack in 2014- living on borrowed time here). I do take an injectable (Repatha) which lowers bad cholesterol and has raised my good cholesterol. I recently had these yearly tests (Jan 2), and about 2 months prior I did the Vit C/Lysine thing for a month. I see my cardiologist next week, and am interested to see the results. Over the 10 years my ejection fraction has improved significantly from just below 50% to 59% last year. Yes, I also take rosuvastatin even though there is a lot of controversy around it. Having been at deaths door I really hesitate to quit it.
are you totally off seed oils? and was the Vitamin C in the Ascorbic Acid form?
also, Vitamin C can cause plaque build up as it oxidizes fats after coming into contact with iron. I know people will argue with me on that.
have you tried proteolytic enzymes? Fenugreek and Moringa also help removes plaques. Beets and hawthorn berry help strengthen and relax the artery and vein walls - which is sometimes the cause of plaque build up. I would also recommend high dose beta carotene. You can take a shitton of it and the only side effect is a slight orange tint to your skin... it's very good for arteries and veins.
Maybe Trump does the high dose beta carotene :) I'll look into other things. Thanks for the suggestions. We are now using only olive oil for cooking. I wish we had done that years ago because I like the taste! Red meat may be one of my main problems, but I don't know if I could survive on just chicken and fish :)
Are you familiar with Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's ideas? If he is right red meat - or animal fats for that matter - is definitely not a problem, rather the opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjQCG4NU-Y
I read his book. I think too much of anything is probably not good. We eat red meat about 4-5 nights a week. I don't know if that is too much :)
Well, there seem to be lots of opinions by different professionals, but while so far there doesn't seem to be all that many actual studies of very low carb, or full on carnivore diets - most, well, all I have found, studies claiming that meat and animal fats are bad for you have studied people who ate some version of the generic western diet - the anecdotal evidence is starting to look pretty good.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/gregs-doctors-told-him-that-heart-disease-was-irreversible-he-proved-them-wrong-and-reversed-his-coronary-calcium-score-by-40-on-keto
And one cardiologist who thinks zero carb is good for you:
https://ovadiahearthealth.com/ovadia-heart-health-about/
Now what I have been able to find out the actual full on carnivore diet isn't always the best alternative, as there are some people with genetics for whom it can be problematic, but it seems to be a good fit for lots of us, especially if you eat "nose to tail".
I tried the "very low carb" diet, and I just felt weak. perhaps I didn't try it long enough :)
And I found this. Are you familiar with this idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy3c6wQ_kKg
Olive oil shouldn’t be used to cook…switch to tallow or another animal fat like duck or even just butter.
We use light olive oil because butter burns when frying. Although olive oil isn't the best, it's not too bad, at least when compared to most of the other commonly used cooking oils. I'll look into even better ways to cook :)
olive oil breaks down (plasticizes) with high heat. Saturated fat is not the problem. Most studies (if you can find them any more) show that arterial plaques are mostly oxidized poly-fats (trans-fats)... "the science" is that oxidized poly's then oxidize the other fats as well as damage arterial walls. (and, poly's plasticize at body temp).
use coconut oil for cooking - it can withstand high heat and acts as a antioxidant to other fats. Olive oil should only be added to food after cooking.
also... sugar (especially non-organic) greatly contributes to oxidative stress - that's why diabetics watch their A1C - the rate of glucose binding to hemoglobin, which also damages arterial walls.
Ok thanks! Good to know! I have read that light olive oil is ok for cooking, but I guess "ok" is relative :)