There’s nothing wrong with the public school model. There’s something wrong with what the teachers have been given license to teach. We should have total control over that, no question. But ending public school is a shit idea. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Public education is a staple of superior western societies. It was Rockefeller redesigning them to be propaganda machines for mindless worker bees with no critical thinking instruction that’s the problem. Whether my kids attend public school or not I don’t want to live in a country without a public education system. Poor kids are ignorant and violent enough. I don’t want them priced out of school.
Rational response. Public school as an entity isn't the primary problem; it's the activists invading every facet of education that is. It's happening in many private schools too.
They can actually push harder and pass bills requiring a specific curriculum for home schoolers too, or prevent you from home schooling entirely.
It is important to combat this with focus and tact, rather than being emotionally driven and just lobbing grenades blindly.
I remember having teachers even into the 2000s that were veterans. Intelligent, passionate, experienced, and fought in Nam. Very fun individuals, and knew their subjects to boot.
I agree with this. Homeschooling simply cannot work for every single family and child. I'm a public school teacher and I know how bad it is right now, but there are still some good, conservative teachers in the US. The problem lies within the American university system. They are the ones pumping out Marxist graduates who know how to spread an agenda effectively but have no concept of rational thought and debate. They are the ones training this new generation of worthless, emotional, incompetent teachers and administrators. Good teachers are fleeing the profession in droves as this continues to get worse. I pray that Trump's return to office will include a complete overhaul of the American university and public school system, including the dismantling of the DOE.
The early Christians were socialist, they pooled their money and food....
And when I say early I mean when Jesus was with them.
Modern forced socialism is nothing like that. If the man who wrote the pledge was thinking of the socialism of the gospel, I have no problem with that. Words mean different things to different people and at different times.
The key difference is that one is voluntary and from the heart, and the other isn't.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose the view people have of the pledge is something like an exercise in patriotism, although there is an argument for it being little more than dogmatic repetition...
I wonder if, instead, the pledge was a voluntary act committed by parents before sending their children off to school if it would be more useful. It could lead to curiousity on the part of children and the parents could explain why they make a point of saying the pledge everyday, thus teaching their kids and learning themselves along the way as their children inevitably ask them questions which they will have to research to give their kids answers...
Clicked on this thread and wrongly assumed that Americans would be like yeh this is great super patriotic let's show the damn commies, U-S-A etc. How wrong I was but in a good way.
Brainwashing kids even in patriotism is just wrong. Nobody should spend their childhood being force-trained in groupthink.
As a Christian, I don’t care much for pledges. I love my country and I thank God for it often. But my heart and my pledge goes to my creator, and my savior Jesus Christ. People don’t have to like it. They just have to deal with it.
Not required, but expected. And when you don’t..butthurt is what they become. I kinda fake it now. I’ll hold my hand over my heart and thank God for everything and anything I can think of till the “pledge” is over. I do mention I love this country tho. Just don’t put faith in much of anything in it.
Not a fucking chance. I’ll fight Christian supremacy and indoctrination as much as any other religion. And I’m a Christian. Fuck fascists of any religious persuasion. Believe what you want. If you want your it’s doing the Lord’s prayer, fork out the money and send them to a private school that does that. Public school isn’t the place for that.
Correct. Some people here scare me. They’re as bad as liberals. Claim they want freedom and then say shit like this. Are we freedom loving Americans or not? Private school is an option for those too lazy to pray with their kids at home or take them to church on Sunday. If you want to preach your religion, do it elsewhere.
Yes, but they also had teachers hit children when you were in school.
Thank God we don't have liberals hitting our kids.
If we have prayers in public schools, then the Muslim children will also have to pull out their rugs and pray at every moment their religion commands. It's a slippery slope.
Then what happens when alternate religions show up and make demands? Like Wiccans or Satanists?
And how many Christians say their prayers and are complete fucking assholes when they get out of church?
I know we all want a sense of "normal", but some of that "normal" was used to indoctrinate us into their system as well. Theres nowhere in the Bible that says its mandatory to pray in school.
And I can say this as a Christian who pledged to the US flag, the Bible, and the Christian Flag everyday. I'm proud of what I did. I also went to private Christian school.
Nah fuck that. No official religious prayers of any kind at school. Nobody should be kept from praying in a non disruptive way but nobody should be forced to participate or feel pressured to participate out if fear of being ostracized. You want your kids to pray and recite the pledge, do it with them in the morning before they go to school. You know, like a parent. Not hard.
If they want to practice their religion, they can simply bow out, sit down and 'shut up' or go outside to the hallway until we are finished.
I will fight you to the death on this one. Separation of church and state means just this. Allowing a mandatory religious practice for one religion, and not the others will lead to the Cabal infiltrating the mandatory religion. They do this in every country.
Now you can't argue that Christianity hasn't been infiltrated over the centuries, especially in our time. That's how we got here.
Taking the prayer (of all religions) out of school doesn't take the zealousness away from the religious folk. The Cabal takes advantage of this. We saw an example in modern day when the lefties turned from 1st Amendment loving hippies to speech censoring fascists. The zealous, 1st Amendment hating aspects of the religious right became the aspects of the left.
So what do you get if you put prayer back into school? They're still zealous, but now they pray to God. You still cant control them, and they can still be activated as sleeper cells with the right propaganda.
It only makes it easier for the enemy to infiltrate through public institutions. You and I both know thats bad.
Just so ya know before I left NY state in 2015 they already had prayer rooms for Muslim students to use during the school day. No Christian group was allowed to use the school for any reason even after school was over. Christmas celebrations, decorations and music were removed from the schools back in the 1990s.
I grew up with it and it never harmed my thinking, nor that of my cohort. The idea that it was an excuse for anti-patriotism is sheer supposition. As for its meaning, Red Skelton said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnXcw6euIE
Why do they need a bill? I retired from working at a public elementary school in Southern California - EVERY morning we played the National Anthem over the PA system and that was followed by the Pledge of allegiance in each and every class! THIS is California, no bill was necessary! While the music was playing over the PA, parents stopped, men removed their hats. It was the one and only thing I respected about the operations of our school and again, even I am shocked to say, this is in California! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
But I think this is equally to brainwashing as well. Instilling loyalty tot he state, while kids have no idea about the real history, and the real choices they have to make, it is wrong to entice children to utter pledges of allegiance.
First of all, The current STATE is a corporate entity void of authorization to receive pledges of allegiance.
Second, pledging allegiance to ideals is something else. The State is merely a vehicle to express these ideals.
Third: the one entity everybody is bound to with fealty is yourself and, if you are inclined to belief so, God. The STATE requires actions in contravention to those ideals and personal integrity.
Fourth: what are the ideals? The Declaration of Independence makes it quite clear. So does the bill of Rights.
Lincoln was wrong when he said that it is all about the men perverting the Constitution and ousting them. It is about a system that does not work. See Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
In other words: the People are the absolute sovereigns. Therefor, pledging allegiance to a STATE (which is a frozen in time relationship) is not envisioned from the get go. Hence, the creation of the Articles of Confederation.
It was the debt that needed a different relationship, and hence, the Constitution was setup, thus creating a Federal Government based on different principles.
And amendments were added.
fifth: all these tradition are post civil war, meant to galvanize the Union, and eradicate any thought of armed resistance.
Sixth: The Washington Farewell Address clearly lays out the pure form of patriotism, nationalism, love of country, etc. It has to do with virtue moving from the inside to the outside world. Not some superficial brainwashing steeped in postal traditions.
So, as a temp remedy, to turn the ship around, it may have benefits. But I kind of like of like the idea of a rite of passage.
While I do think the Pledge of Allegiance is good when voluntary and said in reference to the nation and what little legitimate government it has, forcing kids to say this will cause them to rebel against the country and the cycle continues. If a student RESPECTFULLY opts out then you're better off trying to show them they're wrong than punishing them.
Nah, forget compelled speech! Freedom of Speech means we can also protest the flag/pledge if anyone so deems, for any whimsical reason why, and I will stand by their right to do so. That is why we are America. Freedom of Speech means we have to put up with crap we don't like, as well as, they have to put up with crap they don't like. No compelled speech ever!
How 'bout shut down the schools and do home schooling and home school co-ops. Then parents decide exactly what happens, not governments.
This is just another stupid bill for nothing.
Do something that defunds woke public schools or allow me to not pay school tax for homeschooling my kids.
There’s nothing wrong with the public school model. There’s something wrong with what the teachers have been given license to teach. We should have total control over that, no question. But ending public school is a shit idea. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Public education is a staple of superior western societies. It was Rockefeller redesigning them to be propaganda machines for mindless worker bees with no critical thinking instruction that’s the problem. Whether my kids attend public school or not I don’t want to live in a country without a public education system. Poor kids are ignorant and violent enough. I don’t want them priced out of school.
Rational response. Public school as an entity isn't the primary problem; it's the activists invading every facet of education that is. It's happening in many private schools too.
They can actually push harder and pass bills requiring a specific curriculum for home schoolers too, or prevent you from home schooling entirely.
It is important to combat this with focus and tact, rather than being emotionally driven and just lobbing grenades blindly.
Agreed.
I remember having teachers even into the 2000s that were veterans. Intelligent, passionate, experienced, and fought in Nam. Very fun individuals, and knew their subjects to boot.
I agree with this. Homeschooling simply cannot work for every single family and child. I'm a public school teacher and I know how bad it is right now, but there are still some good, conservative teachers in the US. The problem lies within the American university system. They are the ones pumping out Marxist graduates who know how to spread an agenda effectively but have no concept of rational thought and debate. They are the ones training this new generation of worthless, emotional, incompetent teachers and administrators. Good teachers are fleeing the profession in droves as this continues to get worse. I pray that Trump's return to office will include a complete overhaul of the American university and public school system, including the dismantling of the DOE.
Everything needs to be gone through including the entire educational system. I agree it is needed, but needs to be fixed.
Wisest words on this thread.
We have enough compelled speech rules with the pronoun trannies.
^ This.
Maybe so, but it now pisses off commies.
They hate any mention of God.
That phrase wasn't added until 1954.
https://www.history.com/news/pledge-allegiance-under-god-schools
Shit in their bowl.
Not your own.
That would be silly.
I saw the FUD about the pledge posted here awhile ago.
It just looked silly.
I've fought many epic battles with commies, I prefer not to dox myself by going into details.
If thats Allright with you?
I pick my battles and I research what I consider important.
This looks like a distraction to me.
They shat in your bowl over 100 years and now you're defending it.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/07/07/the-pledge-of-allegiance-was-actually-written-by-a-socialist/
The early Christians were socialist, they pooled their money and food....
And when I say early I mean when Jesus was with them.
Modern forced socialism is nothing like that. If the man who wrote the pledge was thinking of the socialism of the gospel, I have no problem with that. Words mean different things to different people and at different times.
The key difference is that one is voluntary and from the heart, and the other isn't.
I'm not a socalist,but if you knocked on my door starving I would feed you.
That's the very basics of chistanity.
What is voluntary about a mandatory pledge?
Socialism not pledge.
I said the pledge myself every school day for 7 years or more. Things really went to hell, after we quit using it.
I'm now leaning strongly to require it again.
What a terrible argument, there’s a logical fallacy in there somewhere
You made plenty of sense.
Old country wisdom:
I'm curious. Besides being made by a communist, what exactly is objectionable about the pledge?
A vain repetition chant should not be a legal requirement for school children.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose the view people have of the pledge is something like an exercise in patriotism, although there is an argument for it being little more than dogmatic repetition...
I wonder if, instead, the pledge was a voluntary act committed by parents before sending their children off to school if it would be more useful. It could lead to curiousity on the part of children and the parents could explain why they make a point of saying the pledge everyday, thus teaching their kids and learning themselves along the way as their children inevitably ask them questions which they will have to research to give their kids answers...
I can see that interpretation. I can also see an allusion to an impenetrable unity, along the lines of the four oxen and the lion.
Clicked on this thread and wrongly assumed that Americans would be like yeh this is great super patriotic let's show the damn commies, U-S-A etc. How wrong I was but in a good way.
Brainwashing kids even in patriotism is just wrong. Nobody should spend their childhood being force-trained in groupthink.
As a Christian, I don’t care much for pledges. I love my country and I thank God for it often. But my heart and my pledge goes to my creator, and my savior Jesus Christ. People don’t have to like it. They just have to deal with it.
Not required, but expected. And when you don’t..butthurt is what they become. I kinda fake it now. I’ll hold my hand over my heart and thank God for everything and anything I can think of till the “pledge” is over. I do mention I love this country tho. Just don’t put faith in much of anything in it.
Lol what elementary school was this? I would never be ok with that. No religion should be pushed at school. Including my own.
That would really be the best! M A G A - MAKE AMRICA GODLY AGAIN!
Not a fucking chance. I’ll fight Christian supremacy and indoctrination as much as any other religion. And I’m a Christian. Fuck fascists of any religious persuasion. Believe what you want. If you want your it’s doing the Lord’s prayer, fork out the money and send them to a private school that does that. Public school isn’t the place for that.
Correct. Some people here scare me. They’re as bad as liberals. Claim they want freedom and then say shit like this. Are we freedom loving Americans or not? Private school is an option for those too lazy to pray with their kids at home or take them to church on Sunday. If you want to preach your religion, do it elsewhere.
Yes, but they also had teachers hit children when you were in school.
Thank God we don't have liberals hitting our kids.
If we have prayers in public schools, then the Muslim children will also have to pull out their rugs and pray at every moment their religion commands. It's a slippery slope.
Then what happens when alternate religions show up and make demands? Like Wiccans or Satanists?
And how many Christians say their prayers and are complete fucking assholes when they get out of church?
I know we all want a sense of "normal", but some of that "normal" was used to indoctrinate us into their system as well. Theres nowhere in the Bible that says its mandatory to pray in school.
And I can say this as a Christian who pledged to the US flag, the Bible, and the Christian Flag everyday. I'm proud of what I did. I also went to private Christian school.
Nah fuck that. No official religious prayers of any kind at school. Nobody should be kept from praying in a non disruptive way but nobody should be forced to participate or feel pressured to participate out if fear of being ostracized. You want your kids to pray and recite the pledge, do it with them in the morning before they go to school. You know, like a parent. Not hard.
Teddy Roosevelt was also a freemason.
I will fight you to the death on this one. Separation of church and state means just this. Allowing a mandatory religious practice for one religion, and not the others will lead to the Cabal infiltrating the mandatory religion. They do this in every country.
Now you can't argue that Christianity hasn't been infiltrated over the centuries, especially in our time. That's how we got here.
Taking the prayer (of all religions) out of school doesn't take the zealousness away from the religious folk. The Cabal takes advantage of this. We saw an example in modern day when the lefties turned from 1st Amendment loving hippies to speech censoring fascists. The zealous, 1st Amendment hating aspects of the religious right became the aspects of the left.
So what do you get if you put prayer back into school? They're still zealous, but now they pray to God. You still cant control them, and they can still be activated as sleeper cells with the right propaganda.
It only makes it easier for the enemy to infiltrate through public institutions. You and I both know thats bad.
That's what they said during the Spanish Inquisition.
Sauce?
Just so ya know before I left NY state in 2015 they already had prayer rooms for Muslim students to use during the school day. No Christian group was allowed to use the school for any reason even after school was over. Christmas celebrations, decorations and music were removed from the schools back in the 1990s.
That’s no reason to respond in kind. End the madness don’t add to it.
Thats why we either take all of it, or none of it.
"None of it" is easier and it costs less money.
Hard to believe they actually have to pass a law for this.
Excellent.
I grew up with it and it never harmed my thinking, nor that of my cohort. The idea that it was an excuse for anti-patriotism is sheer supposition. As for its meaning, Red Skelton said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnXcw6euIE
Not sure that will hold up in court. I like the pledge but I don’t like forced speech, no matter what the speech may be.
way to go Iowa!
Why do they need a bill? I retired from working at a public elementary school in Southern California - EVERY morning we played the National Anthem over the PA system and that was followed by the Pledge of allegiance in each and every class! THIS is California, no bill was necessary! While the music was playing over the PA, parents stopped, men removed their hats. It was the one and only thing I respected about the operations of our school and again, even I am shocked to say, this is in California! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It was that way in Wva too. The Nat'l Anthem, the Pledge of Allegiance and the reading of the day's lunch menu (by the Principal over the PA system).
Wow. That's amazing. Moving in the right direction.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the globohomo empire. One world, under communism, with sodomy and degeneracy for all. Black lives matter, yo!
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
As a countermove, I think it is quite good.
But I think this is equally to brainwashing as well. Instilling loyalty tot he state, while kids have no idea about the real history, and the real choices they have to make, it is wrong to entice children to utter pledges of allegiance.
First of all, The current STATE is a corporate entity void of authorization to receive pledges of allegiance.
Second, pledging allegiance to ideals is something else. The State is merely a vehicle to express these ideals.
Third: the one entity everybody is bound to with fealty is yourself and, if you are inclined to belief so, God. The STATE requires actions in contravention to those ideals and personal integrity.
Fourth: what are the ideals? The Declaration of Independence makes it quite clear. So does the bill of Rights.
Lincoln was wrong when he said that it is all about the men perverting the Constitution and ousting them. It is about a system that does not work. See Declaration of Independence:
In other words: the People are the absolute sovereigns. Therefor, pledging allegiance to a STATE (which is a frozen in time relationship) is not envisioned from the get go. Hence, the creation of the Articles of Confederation.
It was the debt that needed a different relationship, and hence, the Constitution was setup, thus creating a Federal Government based on different principles.
And amendments were added.
fifth: all these tradition are post civil war, meant to galvanize the Union, and eradicate any thought of armed resistance.
Sixth: The Washington Farewell Address clearly lays out the pure form of patriotism, nationalism, love of country, etc. It has to do with virtue moving from the inside to the outside world. Not some superficial brainwashing steeped in postal traditions.
So, as a temp remedy, to turn the ship around, it may have benefits. But I kind of like of like the idea of a rite of passage.
While I do think the Pledge of Allegiance is good when voluntary and said in reference to the nation and what little legitimate government it has, forcing kids to say this will cause them to rebel against the country and the cycle continues. If a student RESPECTFULLY opts out then you're better off trying to show them they're wrong than punishing them.
Do today's students even know the Pledge of Allegiance?
It’s like a pesticide to make woke teachers so nauseous they leave the kids and the school alone
This should be a law in every state.
Nah, forget compelled speech! Freedom of Speech means we can also protest the flag/pledge if anyone so deems, for any whimsical reason why, and I will stand by their right to do so. That is why we are America. Freedom of Speech means we have to put up with crap we don't like, as well as, they have to put up with crap they don't like. No compelled speech ever!
Pledge to the Constitution of the Republic or the Liberal Democracy of Joe Biden?
https://twitter.com/Lisahudsonchow7/status/1672809905550688256
Cool, now band flag burning like Trump wanted, and make it a federal offense.