Sorry, I tried to keep this short but I failed.
I realize this term has been applied to various positions and that what I'm about to describe might be different from what you understand it to mean. You'll have to bear with me on that.
My problem with Christian Nationalism is this: Who decides how to interpret Christianity?
Within Christianity there are many different views on its doctrines.
- Some say we should worship on Saturday, others say Sunday.
- Some say you have to go to a church, others think you can have church in someone's house.
- Some say drinking alcohol is a sin, others say it isn't.
- Some say 'cuss words' are sinful, others say they're not.
- Some think divorce is only allowed in cases of adultery, others say a woman can divorce if her husband beats her.
The list goes on and on.
We could also address the churches who think they're the 'One True Church' and all the others are heretics, but I honestly hope I don't have to explain the dangers of that mentality being given the Powers of Statehood. Go research the Midieval period.
Now, why am I bringing this up?
Right now as we speak the Vatican, in collusion with secular Climate Change groups, is trying to get the entire world to obey a "Weekly Day of Rest", to "let the earth rest and let people have time for worship". Some call it the "Earth Sabbath". This is of course to be done on Sundays. The push has support in America, as you will see by doing a CTRL + F search for 'Sunday' in the Project 2025 PDF document. Many of the authors of Project 2025 are in the current Trump administration, or in Trump's ear from the sidelines.
⚠️ If this ever gets codified into American Law, your businesses would be forced to obey a particular interpretation of a religious dogma, like it or not. This is a VERY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT to be setting. I believe all "Blue Laws" are Unconstitutional as well.
I don't care if you think Sunday is the day for church. You don't get to tell my business which day is for church. And you don't get to tell me any other view on any other doctrine and force me to submit to it. You cannot legislate faith in Christ.
People must be free to follow their faith without the State imposing it for them. This is not Sharia Law Iran, this is America.
Be careful what you wish for if you're out there pushing anything like this. The "Christ is King" Nick Fuentes "Groyper" crowd is especially guilty of it. The Eastern Orthodox "Orthobros" are as well (cue the vaporwave DontMakePeaceWithEvil-DestroyIt.gif). There's a community in Idaho which seems headed in this direction, though I haven't done a deep dive into their views yet.
Regardless, I believe I have laid out a good template of caution.
If you see anyone pushing Church-State Union ideas, please, for the love of God, push back on them. Warn them. Walk through the logic with them. Try not to be nasty, as they're often religious zealots who've linked their identity in Christ with their Church-State Union positions. The goal is to get them to comprehend the ramifications of what they're asking for.
They have fallen into the same error many of Christ's followers fell into—they believe that in order for the Kingdom of God to manifest on the earth, there must be a "God Government" forced on the people, just like the followers thought Jesus was going to raise a literal army and overthrow the Roman government to set up a "Godly Government".
But, my fellow christians, how does the Kingdom of God REALLY manifest on earth?
In the hearts of men.
✝️By the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, men's hearts are changed from wicked, cowardly, cold, selfish hearts into loving, caring, courageous, generous, honest hearts. Men such as these need no government telling them "do this, don't do that". Men such as these, if elected to public office, would not act corruptly. This is how the Kingdom of God manifests on the earth. And the more men we have on earth who are born again, the more the Kingdom of God is manifest. So spread the Gospel frens! If you don't know what it is (it's really SIMPLE!), I'm sure u/Slechta5614 would be happy to share it with you!✝️
But you will say,
what about the "Christians" who also act corruptly?
That is what church is for, to hold each other accountable and help one another grow in the Faith. A christian acting corruptly is either in need of correction, or is just a "Christian in name only" (there are many...). A lot of people were just born into the religion called Christianity and they roll with it without ever actually being born again. Many also use it as a social club or a societal status-marker.
But non-christians will ree:
Hey I'm not a christian and I don't act corruptly!
Then your morality is a ripple-effect of the Cross of Christ, because the world before Christ was UTTERLY wicked. Think of all the things that were accepted as normal! Slavery, prostitution, beating women, raping kids, highway robbery, vengeance killing, and on and on. Through the Gospel these practices have gradually become abhorrent. Men like Socrates I find to have been specially touched by God but for the vast majority people were real sacks of shit! So you, whatever you are, are a by-product of what Jesus did 2,000 years ago, and you need to come meet your Holy Source! He's the Lord of all creation whether you like it or not and you'll FAFO one day (;
Anyways,
The government needs to STAY OUT of the affairs of faith, because it's not their job and frankly, it's none of their business. If a christian is convinced they need to worship on Sunday, they will put their faith ahead of their occupation and find a job that lets them. If a business is convinced they need to close on Sundays, they may. But when the government gets involved, they have a way of screwing things up. As we know.
Whoever wants the State united to their church is a fool and has not studied history in the slightest. Or would you like to see AI-powered blasphemy laws? 🖲️ I believe Russia already has some blasphemy laws on the books in response to the Pussy Riot fiasco.
You see frens, this is an NWO template:
To cause such a moral decay in society that we turn around and beg the State to marry the Church in order to crack down on it. Why do you think San Francisco started letting people rob stores and shit on the street? Because they want you to want a police state. They use extreme liberalism to cause you to beg for extreme fascism. Ping pong.
It doesn't matter which church the State marries, because once the union is complete, those pesky little dogmatic issues can be worked out later. They'll find a way to twist and warp the dogmas to fit their wicked purposes. Trust me.
Again, go research the Middle Ages. Listen to Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon series. Religious freedom is much more than just allowing you to worship God freely. Religious freedom protects you from how other people worship God. And that is YUUUUUUGE!
Cheers. As always, feel free to add your take on it. If I'm over-reeeeeacting, don't hesitate to let me know! 🐸 I will also be re-posting some of my ✨Greatest Hits✨ in the comments section for further reading as I get the time.
I know Sunday seems like a silly thing to ree over. But what happens when they start codifying other christian dogmas into law? What happens when the Muslims also want some of their dogmas codified? The whole concept is ridiculous, unnecessary, unconstitutional and a recipe for disaster.
It reminded me that during Covid some churches or pastors virtue signal their congregation to get the shot and trust science. I hate all institutions and many religious leaders are usually leaders because they like to control and feed their ego.
I think Christianity is a personal relationship between you and God, not a religion. If anyone tells you how and when to worship or such matter, you have the right to feel completely violated.
The age we live in is the church of Laodicea.. lukewarm Rev 3:15-18 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm neither hot nor cold I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Religion is doctrine of man... At times nothing but a ceremony to make one feel righteous for a while. You are 120% right it's about relationship with Him. And while walking that path, finding the other remnant believers can provide the pillars of support that we all need... more so possibly in these times.
Be Blessed!
Christianity is a faith, a belief.
A nation is a people, an ethnic group.
The inherent 'morality' that Christianity fosters is a requirement for the successful functioning of a Republic. Which Christian doctrine is the path forward is left for each individual to figure out through their relationship with Our Heavenly Father, His Son The Christ, and His Spirit that is freely available and resides within those that seek Him.
America was founded on Christian values, purposely devoid of denomination! As such a "New Theocracy' of a secular, national religion could not dominate, dictated, nor mandated to override the relationship that each member of the body was to foster and grow through their unique sanctification walk towards Him. As a nation Christian values were our cornerstone, foundation, and inspiration that allowed us to become the Best Version of what we could become.
We are a Christian nation in our core Republic DNA, though we are all unique parts of the body.... different understandings, guidance and relationships with God. Which our Founding Fathers explicitly understood. As such avoided establishing one denomination as a national religion. Even explicitly prohibiting such as was Old World baggage. Nonetheless they based our Republic experiment on Christian values.
Indeed. Sadly many states didn't get that and imposed religious dogmas on their citizens for a while after the founding. Some states even imprisoned people for missing church on Sunday! Thankfully those laws got overturned.
Now if we could only do something about the pesky Blue Laws...
https://greatawakening.win/p/19BZpk1gK1/this-is-what-made-america-great-/c/
~ George Washington, 1789
~ Benjamin Franklin
The first 4 of the Ten Commandments address our relationship with God. The State has no business with them. The last 6 are the laws which address our relationships with one another (don't murder, steal, etc.) and those are the laws which the State is authorized to enforce.
edit- Who downdoots George Washington and Benjamin Franklin? A Church-State Union proponent, that's who. GET THE BEHIND ME SATAN. Anti-American dog!
As a Buddhist, I have no issue with George Washington or Benjamin Franklin’s perspective on the issue.
Only one jackass would do that. Looks like King Charles III is lurking here. /s
My Christianity is VERY separate from my nation (Canada) and nothing my government tries to tell me will change that. I worship the Lord on the day of my choosing and at the church of my choosing. The world is going to hell in a hand basket but they are going to do so without me.
Just as I refused to be locked down, to wear a mask or to take the jab, I have no intention of giving up any of my God-given rights and freedoms because some globalist that elected himself thinks he that can tell me what to do.
I read something recently that was good - there are 3 types of people in this world: 1) Secular people 2) Religious people and 3) Christian people. The Christian group is the smallest. If the state was controlled by "Christian nationalists", they would most likely be Religious people rather than Christians.
yeeeep 😩
doing wickedness under the protection of a Christian covering. ABOMINABLE.
Unconstitutional. Yes. That's really the end of the debate; isn't it?
"Religious freedom protects you from how other people worship God." Well said. 💯
Amen! I love cold, hard logic.
That's why we have the first amendment and separation of church state. America must never become a theocracy.
AMEN.
The Catholic church has been completely captured by the forces of evil on our planet. Most of the Protestant churches have as well.
I seems to me that Jesus despised the church that dominated his lifetime on earth. I pray that home churches become the dominant form of church because the denominational churches have given in and turned Christianity into a financial institution.
I agree fren. It's absolutely awful what has happened to the institutionalized churches. I would perhaps argue that it was foretold but now's not the time for eschatology.
Praying for the christians to get the House of God in order!🙏
Spot on, thank you. Yes, that is the problem - who gets to decide? Having moral and just laws is different than having religious infiltration of the government structure.
100%
I have a personal relationship with God. And I believe in the Holy Trinity. For me this is the most part of being Christian. I know Christ died for me on the cross.
I do go to church. But just remember religion is manmade. And it is not perfect. I go to church mainly to connect with others like me. I join to be able to do good works with others as a group My church is pretty small but we have a wonderful community.
Wow fren beautiful post!! Thanks for sharing your heart. Sorry for the late response. Been a busy week for me. Lots going on in my church.
Appreciate the shout out. Yes I absolutely love talking about the good news. So much good stuff is coming. Excited for the future. Jesus is on the move best is yet to come. Much love fren. Keep shining that light of Christ
Together through Christ we have endless potential
Amen!! Yeah I mean I think I could deliver the Gospel too but God had it on my heart to pass the baton to you. I'm a bit too brash. My reputation might not be as fitting for it on here. Then again maybe I'm just overthinking kek.
I appreciate the tag in. Though I am confident you could share it as well. Sometimes the different ways we express these things ..the more people have a chance to latch on. We are all unique and God is working in us all in unique ways. Yet there is also common foundations. Both are important..don't sell yourself short. The Lord is with you. You have a YUGE heart and great mind. Don't overthink it. Just share your heart and the ways the Lord has worked in you. The gospel is for us all and at the same time it's specifically for each of us on individual levels. Keep shining that light brother
I agree 100%. I’ve seen way too many here advocate for the Bible to determine what our laws should be. When I raise this question, and suggest others interpret the Bible differently than they do and that’s not a sure foundation on which to build a nation, not only has my Christianity been questioned, but they went so far as to call me an atheist so they could try to exit the conversation early when they felt challenged. Happened to me right here just last week, in fact.
Yep. I liken them to the religious zealots of Christ's time on earth. They claim the faith but their character reflects otherwise, as does their common sense!
Not a bad rant. I generally agree. But on the scale of things to rant about, I think your perception of the danger posed by Christian nationalism is overblown.
We haven't gotten rid of media monopolization yet, or rampant and blatant infringement on the right to bear arms, or even the Fed that taxes us all with no representation. Heck, we don't even have an actual vote in most of our country! That's gotta come first in my opinion. In theory you're right on, but, in the ebb and flow of today's society, I'd gladly handle a few more blue laws in exchange for securing the vote, ending the fed, breaking up a few monopolies, not to mention clearing out illegal aliens and corrupt politicians.
That's just it though, I see this thing sneaking in on the wings of all this winning. People need to be aware of this because it's very tempting to accept laws that 'curb the immorality' but they are double-edged swords that end up 'curbing our rights and freedoms'
The world forces us to make trade-offs, in terms of our time and attention if nothing else. I'm in devil-run California, and I just can't get worked up about the dangers of Christianity invading our government.
I'm in agreement with you on the theory, and I'm ideologically libertarian. But with 1 in 24 kids in CA born being autistic, a disenfranchised electorate, pedo blackmail networks actively recruiting people, and a list of actual evil stuff getting in our faces every day, Christian Nationalism is a bogeyman that I'm happy to ignore until it actually materializes.
God can fix everything all at once and I expect Him to erase all denominations soon enough, but until then I'll limit myself to worrying about the evils of today.
But totally aside from my indifference based on pure earthly expedience, I believe your concern is misplaced. Trump and Q know exactly this danger and will avoid it. It's all included in the history Q led us to study. The Titanic led to the depression which led to FDR and a drawstring on our liberties that stealthily closed tighter year after year; WW1 led to Weimar chaos shoving the pendulum to law and order and (with help from the Hindenburg disaster undercutting organic German populists) clearing the way for Hitler, with the cabal winning either way. Trump and Q told us this much. Q knows this, and so I believe your worries have been gamed out and taken care of. I'm not going to lecture you on trusting the plan, but ... we can all use reminders sometimes.
Your words reassure me fren. Thank you❤️
👍 WWG1WGA 👍
Bingo!
The Catholic church has been completely captured by the forces of evil on our planet. Most of the Protestant churches have as well.
I seems to me that Jesus despised the church that dominated his lifetime on earth. I pray that home churches become the dominant form of church because the denominational churches have given in and turned Christianity into a financial institution.
I agree.
Labels need to go away.
“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.” ― Rupertus Meldenius
You nailed it with this post. Many have viewed the left hand path as the implementation of the new order, however, it could have been a psychological tool to pull the proverbial pendulum so far one way it would have the maximum momentum when it swings back to the more 'rational' side.
Many will see this as 'righteous' or good, and in some sense that will be true, people's gaurds will drop, and they will be more likely to go along with the implementation of 'religious' laws like the one you mentioned. It will rope many 'Christians' in, and if we extrapolate that out, it has the potential to set the stage for the Anti Christ kingdom under the guise of righteousness, the EXACT thing we were warned about to begin with.
It's another example of their greatest tool, the Hegelian Dialect. An economy that many have to work around the clock to make ends meet leads to an overworked population that will be more than happy to accept legislation for a day off to rest. As we know from experience, it won't stop there.
Two glaring comparisons to Jesus's time:
Consider what the Temple had become, it deceived God's people with an overbearing system of man made oral traditions.
The Pharisees and Jesus argued many time about the Sabbath and adherence to their idea of it.
Undoubtedly it leads us to here..
Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
More Christians need to be aware of this but I doubt many will figure it out, mainly because the Church leaders are in on it. The Judas goats, bringing their flocks in for slaughter.
I could probably go on and on in regards to this but I think I'll stop there.
Ahh man. This could be its own OP kek. I'm tempted... maybe after people forget about mine I'll remind them again with yours! 😂 I know, I know, I'm a cheeky bastard who loves to annoy .win :p
You don't annoy me my friend. And if you do choose to repost this in time, you of course have my blessing to do so. I appreciate you and your perspective, I always have. 👊⚔️
Replace Sunday,with Sabbath.
Sounds like a mix of Dominion Theology heretics and cultural Christians.
I personally do not do business on Sunday, it is my choice to pick Sunday as my sabbath, I buy what I need through the week, and do not hire people for jobs, handymen, farm help, etc on that day. I just like a day to "clean" myself from money, not handle it at all. One day to revel in what God has created, and to thank HIM, and to turn off the world. I look forward to it, Sunday dinner always happens, something special on the stove. As with most older boomers, I have a passel of memories of how it used to be, watching neighbors in Sunday best going to church, Catholic, Protestant, small stores closed, families joining for Sunday dinner, even a lot of restaurants closed. Liquor stores closed, parks filled, the beaches filled. A sabbath is a wonderful thing, but it is a choice. Nurses have to work on Sunday, as do police and military, so, to pick one day as "holy" is not according to law, God asks us to keep one day a week for HIM, and calendars have nothing to do with that. Making religion as civil law is not a good thing, and while we pray that those with power will constantly seek God's will in their decisions, how would we know? A devout Muslim will be convinced that he is doing what God asks of him, a devout Christian may pray on her knees outside of a prison, where someone is about to be hung, and be convinced she is following the Gospel. These days you can find any Pastor who will interpret scripture the way they understand it. It is, in fact, the Tower of Babel out there.Religious Tradition can never become law in a nation like the United States, it goes against everything the country was founded on. My advice is to seek Christ inside of yourself, the Kingdom of God is within you, and yes, seek fellowship with others and raise a collective song to the Lord, if that is your avenue to seek a closer relationship with HIM. For me, it is not, I want my direct line to the Holy Spirit, to sit in my room in prayer, to read his word for myself, and who I seek to better understand his word may not be found on a Sunday morning.God is everywhere, I believe in God in Christ, so, Christ is everywhere, HE is never removed from life, or death. Ever. He wants us to come to HIM on our own, not because we have to, but because we want to. The future is meaningless to me if it is merely secular, but, that is me. I have faith that I will die, at 75, I think about that a lot, when, where, how? I would have the same faith if I lived in the middle of China, or Libya, or Arkansas, nothing will separate me from that, if there was a law that told me to I must go against the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I would be an outlaw.if there are laws in government that permit sin, but give me a choice to not sin, I am one of those people who believe in minding my own business, unless there is a life at stake. Abortion is one of those cases, but homosexuality and transgender issues do not concern me, unless there are crimes against children and innocents. A company pouring toxic waste into a city's water sources, I will not mind my own business, but I will where consenting adults do whatever behind closed doors is not my business. As I said, the Power of God is everywhere, he can be summoned in prayer in the darkest hellholes, so, the governance of mere men is moot.
GREAT POST. 🙏❤️🇺🇸
Don't know what you mean by Christian Nationalism. I've read through the comments for more information, but not seeing what is meant by Christian Nationalism. Do you mean like Islamic, Jewish, or Communist Nationalism where the religion is the government? If so, Christians would have to first decide and agree to what it means to be a Christian. Or do you mean something quite different? Perhaps it is just that I am not aware of Christian Nationalism.
What I mean by it is people who want the State to enforce religious dogmas, of any kind whatsoever.
Hmm, we are not an atheistic, communist, jewish, or muslim nation. We are a Christian nation that gives equal footing for other forms of worship unlike the atheistic, communist, jewish, or muslim nations. Am truly unaware of any talk of enforcing Christianity on all American citizens.
I laid it out plainly in the OP.
If you laid it out plainly I would not question what it is you are discussing. I've not heard any discussion of enforcing Christianity on the Government and American citizens. It is the main difference between the USA and atheistic, communist, jewish, or muslim nations.
If the government makes laws that force your business to pay their employees 1.5x more money for working on Sundays, how is that not
?
Had a position years ago Sunday through Thursday, no extra pay. Your example is the same as overtime hours. Is the Sunday you are discussing within the 40 hour work week or outside the 40 hour work week?
The Sunday I am discussing has nothing to do with the 40 hour work week. It is being singled out as a day in which your business is to pay 1.5x. The government wants to force your business to observe the Sabbath. Overtime pay is a separate issue unrelated to this proposal.
Additionally go look up the pope trying to shut the whole world down every Sunday. That, combined with this Sabbath rest push by the American Right, is a clear signal to me that we are headed in a direction contrary to the Constitution, no matter how moral or good it may sound.
Well stated
Thou shall not impose thy religion on anyone...
Do whatever you want - Just leave me alone.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. No exceptions.
Place no head higher than your own.