I wonder just who they're buying it for (if the plan is to distribute it) or if they're storing it to create a shortage. Weaponized IRS has just taken on a new meaning. I don't know about the legalities of this, but it seems like a rather suspicious purchase for a tax collecting organization.
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Who says the IRS plans to keep the ammo themselves.
The IRS could be arming Antifa. They could be arming any militia or terrorist organization. We all know that the IRS is full of Democrat brainwashed leftists.
Right about that and this is the same IRS that's been saying they can't handle all the paper returns so shredded something like 30K of them. They can't perform their function, but they can provide ammunition to some domestic (or perhaps foreign) group?
Edit: That was thirty million they destroyed, not thirty thousand. Thanks to u/DarQ2light for the correction.
They shredded 30 MILLION <<<
Thanks for the clarification. Even the title of the archived TGP article referenced by the above-mentioned (now below-mentioned) post cited 30K - so I went to the source of that article. You're absolutely right - it was thirty million, not thirty thousand.
cc: u/GoldenFlame
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/irs-destroys-30-million-tax-documents-insists-no-negative-taxpayer-consequences
Yeah it kind of blew my mind I had to do a double-take and make sure I wasn't reading 30000 at 1st.kek!
Are these the work from home actually only doing about 4 hrs of work a week like the veritas dude from twitter?
Maybe they plan some heavy duty audits.
Working from home requires the same work ethic as self-employment does...and there's nothing wrong with being self-employed. Not sure what you meant to imply tho so I'll leave it there.
As a current Federal employee, there are quite a few other Federal employees that are taking advantage of the work from home situation to do everything but work. When I call and email a support staff person and they don't answer or get back to me for a day or two, we have a problem. As one of a handful of people on base that has worked throughout the entire covid business, I can honestly say that a lot less work is being accomplished by quite a few people that are still teleworking. Of course, even before telework, we had some employees that were barely working anyways.
Pretty much agree with everything you said.
My boss works from home and half the time I talk to her she's doing the dishes or laundry or some shit.
One of my coworkers is always outside somewhere whenever I speak to him on the phone. I can always hear traffic in the background. I have no idea what the hell he is doing everyday, but he pretty much has checked out from work. He only has 2 years left to retirement, but that is a long time to screw off.
Iām self employed and unless I have to be in front of the computer for info, I multi task too. I can do dishes and have a conversation. It actually is more productive when you think about it.
The IRS is no good at keeping hard drives in good condition, either.
Must be why I haven't gotten my return back yet.. State took like 2 weeks to return.. Federal? I filed in February.
In case you missed it...
https://greatawakening.win/p/15HvPrcKPO/the-irs-fell-behind-so-its-emp/c/
Black-Bloc needs to be armed somehow for the Summer of delight coming in
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/01/14/irs-has-4500-guns-5-million-rounds-ammunition-paying-taxes/?sh=7e09517b1f9e
Whoops, I should have read because I said something similar...
donāt worry
all part of tHe PlAn
700k at todays prices isnāt all that much ammo lol
You've got a good point. Lol.
Really? At 50 cents per bullet (9 mm), that equates to 1.4 million bullets. I'm sure there's a discount too that would set that number perhaps to 2.5 million bullets.
Your concept of "isn't all that much ammo" doesn't seem logical to me at all.
If it was to benefit "someone" for political payback I'd wholly agree with you. This is most likely not the case here. Obama did the same thing with multiple federal agencies buying up ammo, including the Environmental Agency and the US Post office that clearly didn't have a police force function. Obama's buy up was to purchase the entire supply and drive the price of ammo way up. At the same time, Operation Fast n Furious was being implemented. All of this came crashing down when Fast-n-n-furious was exposed. What we are seeing here is 'Act' 2. I bet Operation Fast-n-Furious is back on track.
Show me where you can get 9mm for .50 cents a round right now.
Look on-line. I just bought a box of 50 for about that amount.
https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/search?q=9mm
Distribute that allotment across field agents, who are paid to be proficient and MUST go to the range to demonstrate proficiency, as well as practice proficiency at least weekly.
Back in the day, I would burn 200 rounds a week - AVERAGE - with some weeks bumping towards 500 rounds (rare, but fun). I am just an ordinary joe, that enjoys shooting distance. The more you do anything, the better you get at it.
This seems like a rational weekly budget for ammo, for just range time; for an agency with ~500 agents or less. I doubt we would get much argument from having your local cops shooting 100+ rounds a week at the range, so when they did have to draw their weapon - every round hit near the target.
It is a small percentage of IRS that actually carries a weapon. This is why the local police, Sheriff's department, and/or the FBI is recruited for arresting someone for IRS matters. Unfortunately, this isn't "back in the day either". $700,000 still buys a lot of 9 mm bullets. I'm refusing to underestimate the significance of the purchase.
Then again, I've always been troubled by the IRS having the right to carry any weapons.
I agree with you statement, that a small percentage of the IRS actually carries a weapon. That's why I gave the 500 number; that would be 10 agents per state; which I think is fairly conservative.
$700K buys a lot of 9mm, but I expect there to be a variety of calibers, with some of the more specialized calibers being a bit more expensive than the garden variety 9mm FMJ. I would think that sniper practice rounds would all be Match Grade, because precision counts - and those can be a few bucks each.
I really do see your point here. And it is your prerogative and perception, which I duly respect. We can disagree on what constitutes a lot of ammunition. However, your newest post is not plausible. Since when did the IRS get their own militarized SWAT teams? As far as I can tell, they haven't any. This is why they always call the FBI and the Sheriff's department for muscle. It's not the IRS. I have never seen the IRS carry more than holstered handgun. Long guns are really outside their purview.
Another point, is with choked supply (due to Obama era limitation on US lead production), is that i would have no problem believing that various non-military style agencies are stockpiling ammunition; is to simply starve the market, so that US citizens cannot purchase the limited amount of ammunition being made.
That's what I think too. Drive the price way up by depleting all the stock supply.
I have never seen an IRS type SWAT team. I can see no reason why they would need them, but my wife worked a temporary job at the IRS, and she passed through a guard desk, with an armed IRS agent. Simply flashed the IRS badge, and pass through security to the elevator.
She was just a basic auditor, took the assigned case load, verified paperwork, etc.
Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. The place I work at has armed guards, but they are contractors. I don't know if NASA in Huntsville, or if Kennedy Space Flight Center uses contractors, Federal employees or a mix. But, those guards are all armed, and I do believe that long guns are at their disposal. I would not recommend rushing a gate.
The IRS does have an armed Criminal Investigation Unit. Like most government agencies. Which is scary as hell if you think about it. Look up government departments with armed agents.
From November 2021 - seems like the IRS already has quite the stockpile of guns and ammo.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/11/17/how-many-guns-do-irs-agents-have-n2599189
.
And look at that... (From the article) The IRS has submachine guns. Isn't that a threat to democracy? Are they expecting a war?
"... The current 4,600-gun stockpile includes 621 shotguns, 539 long-barrel rifles, and 15 submachine guns. ..."
This is as of January 1st, 2019. I suspect those numbers are higher by now, three-and-a-half years later.
So THATās what makes a firearm automatic, who knew?š
That ammo doesn't even need guns to kill!
Interesting. From about sixteen months ago, 2636 armed agents employed by the IRS so basic math - around $266 worth of ammo per individual in just three months. It doesn't sound as bad that way assuming the ammo is for those individuals and that this is normal. Apparently Congressman Matt Gaetz didn't think it is (normal) so he raised the issue.
You're absolutely right that this is scary as hell - especially in light of how corrupt the government has become and what they're doing - deliberately - to actively destroy this country.
https://www.thoughtco.com/firearms-and-arrest-authority-federal-agencies-3321279
Yeah, I posted above some rough numbers, this is worse than I estimated, but only that many armed agents, I don't imagine they're trying to prevent us from having ammo, sounds like they're buying and practicing.
5.56 ain't cheap. Even shotgun is stupid expensive right now.
Thanks for the analysis, Rooks. Did you check out the Townhall link (numbers from Jan 2019) of how many firearms and how much ammo the IRS has already stockpiled?
Edit: box per month at $30 (for 9mm example) times 2636 armed agents is $79,080 per month so the purchase would be for nine-ten months NOT considering whatever they already have stockpiled. And if only five boxes per year vs twelve that's over twice the supply so up to over a year-and-a-half supply purchased in those three months.
Came here to say this. They had an IRS agent speak to us at a career day when I was in college and he mentioned he was issued a gun for his position.
This. Do the math. My brother and I discussed this year's ago when DHS was first formed, they bought millions in ammo. Not a big deal, he said. Anyone issued a gun is required to maintain basic proficiency. Cops are given at minimum a box of ammo per month and expected to practice, and are tested anywhere from each quarter to yearly.
They don't practice with cheap ammo, they use the standard issue stuff. So if 9mm, then probably 115gr or 147gr JHP. About 25-30 bucks per box/50.
So let's say they have what, 100 agents per state armed. I can't think of a reason why, but it sounds like a good number, so we'll go with that. That's 5,000 armed agents. Each one must practice, so let's say they have to maintain a yearly qualification, and they make sure they train a minimum of once per quarter. That's really, really bad, but we'll run with it.
So one agent needs 1 box of ammo, 4x a year, and let's say one box for the test, so 5 boxes. 5x5,000 agents. That's 25k boxes of ammo. Let's say they're 28 bucks a piece, that's 28x 25,000 boxes, bam! $700,000.00.
If they were doing this purchase more than 2-3 times a year, I'd question it. If they had to practice 1x monthly plus a test, that's 13x5,000, that's 65k boxes. 28x65k is $1.82 million dollars.
Assumimg 5000 armed agents (reasonable assumption), they have to spend more than 2 million in one year for them to use more than your average police officer trains with every year.
I'd rather there was NO armed IRS, I'd rather there was NO IRS PERIOD. However, they said this YEARS ago, that they were going to start arming agents. This is not new.
700k in 4 months, is approximately 2.1 million a year. Still don't like them, but without knowing the number of armed agents, I'm not to worried about this TBH.
Did they happen to mention what their intention was for arming agents in the first place?
IIRC, it was right when Obama was doing all those mass shootings, then someone not them set off a bomb at a federal building, shocked them, so they started arming agents to defend federal buildings and the IRS in general.
In addition, I seem to recall there was a scare or shooting or something with several on-duty agents, someone got hurt (I'm remembering they were punched, knocked out or something?).
We have a good friend that is a USDA investigator... he carries an automatic weapon in his truck. He goes to (gun/weapons/tactical) training at least once a month. We have always accused him of not really working for the cow police.
But he does work on large food stamp fraud cases & busts. He used to only work on farm insurance fraud type cases but in the last 5+ years, they pretty much are 100% working on food stamp fraud.
Ain't enough if they're fixin' to use it on us
Check this out - from November 2021 (info, I believe, from 2019).
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/11/17/how-many-guns-do-irs-agents-have-n2599189
I'll take my refund in 556 please
Good one, thanks for the smile.š
The irs has armed agents. This is public knowledge. They donāt hide it.
Thanks for the heads-up. u/RedRiverValleyGirl already mentioned that - see the discussion, above. Congressman Gaetz obviously thought that a purchase of $700K in ammo over a few months period was something to question.
Obama started that shit. He could not ban guns so he ordered every federal agency to buy up as much ammo as possible to starve the market and BidAn is doing the same thing. 5.56 / 223 are the big ones they want to starve the public market from getting as well as the smaller 9mm rounds.
This, I remember stories of millions of rounds being purchased during the Obama years for different government agencies.
https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases/
Obama did the same thing trying to create a fed.gov induced shortage to infringe on the 2nd Amendment. It didnāt work then, it wonāt work now.
IRS have armed guards. I get offered armed positions working k9 for them all the time.
Remember Build Back Better? The Dems wanted $81 BILLION for the IRS. That should be tweeted every damned day forever.
When are we going to demand open accounting books to see why and where taxpayer money goes? This is why all these agencies need to be defunded and dismantled. Government employees lose their jobs.
They're already audited by independent private accounting firms. The only big one that isn't is the Fed. If you want to see their accounting go look at the audit opinions, statements, and related footnotes
It's a continuation of exactly what Obama did.
This has been going on for years. Obama, I think and of course, initiated this practice. Here is an article from Oct 20, 2017:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/10/20/why-are-federal-bureaucrats-buying-guns-and-ammo-158-million-spent-by-non-military-agencies/?sh=2d78d9d064a1
This kind of thing has been going on for awhile. Weird and worrisome.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/10/20/why-are-federal-bureaucrats-buying-guns-and-ammo-158-million-spent-by-non-military-agencies/?sh=e62e3564a162
They are going to keep half (the casings) and distribute the rest (the bullets) among the deplorables.
This is plausible if the IRS has federal security guards in their offices. They would need to pay for security costs.
That number isn't manpower, just ammo - and purchased just within the past few months. If you scan through some of the other commentary here you'll see several anons brought up that Obama ordered agencies to stockpile ammo during his term purportedly because he was unable to do a gun grab. Also consider other points brought up here including the amount of ammo the IRS already has stockpiled (five million rounds three-and-a-half years ago, probably more by now). Whatever the normal expenditure on ammo to keep their armed agents trained-up, it apparently raised some red flags for Congressman Gaetz.
No wonder the rest of us have such a hard time finding any.
$700,000 / $500 = 1,400 cases of 1,000 rounds of ammo.
1.4 Million rounds of ammo with armed agents that need to practice at least weekly, is going to be gobbled up pretty quickly. If they have 500 agents, and each agent expends 100 rounds a week on the range - that's 50K burn a week, which is 28 weeks of practice. If each agent only burns 50 rounds on the range; that's a year's worth of ammo.
Caveats - they are buying 556mm NATO rounds, at a price similar to what I just purchased. They have ~500 agents, who never burn more than the allotted amount, and no ammo goes "stray" to be shot at home.
I appreciate the numerical analysis, as u/Rooks, myself and others have done in this thread. Looking at it from a 30K ft perspective, so to speak, there are some other factors to consider that seem relevant. The Townhall article I cited, from Nov 2021, has information available from Jan 2019 and even at that time - three-and-a-half years ago - the IRS had already stockpiled five million rounds of ammo. If this latest purchase is any indication I'm guessing that number is over seven-and-a-half million rounds. Consider that Obama had agencies stockpiling ammo during his term, purportedly because he was unsuccessful with a gun grab and wanted to deprive law-abiding citizens of being able to (afford to) purchase it, as several anons here have mentioned. Consider that the IRS claims it doesn't have enough people to process their paper returns (hence just shredded them) and one wonders just what their priorities are, what their real purpose is. Consider the Congressman Gaetz found this recent, nearly $700K purchase in just the prior three months to be worthy of looking into. Consider other factors like the marxist infestation of our government, education system, judicial system, corporations and so forth.
My question to you - since, from a brief, cursory scan of your comment history you seem to have a real good understanding of lots of facets of this and related/other topics - why does the IRS need to stockpile this many firearms and that much ammo? We hear about raids by government agents, these usually involving the FBI, ICE, ATF and the like. I don't recall any huge IRS-predominant raids where a large number of armed IRS agents descend upon, for a hypothetical example, a gang (mafia, cartel) operation to arrest everyone. It would seem to me that if such an operation were to be necessary, the IRS could easily call in local LEOs, the FBI, ATF, etc to do the dangerous disarming of the violent bad guys. Maybe I just haven't heard and the IRS is in frequent gun battles with dangerous tax-evaders. Are armed IRS agents usually on site for big drug busts? Do you have any insight on this?
There is an IRS Department in Ogden, UT. Outside the building, they have armed guards - I do not know if these are FBI, or DoJ Employees, or if they work for the IRS. I know the IRS hires software and computer engineers, legal and contract specialists, etc. I do not know if they maintain their own security force as well.
The Federal Buildings I have been in, have generally have had a Federal Court on one of the floors, and there were armed security in each of these buildings. I believe they were part of the Federal Court system.
I have friends who work with the FBI, and the US Marshal Service; I know they have allotted range time, and are assigned some NICE weaponry. I mean, the service pistols they have are Pro-series ($3,000+) and body armor is better than most of us can afford. Then again, for what they do, they need it.
I work for NASA, so I sit behind armed guards; but they are all commercial security (generally ex-military police). I don't know if commercial guards are assigned range time - and I don't know how many IRS agents carry. I do know that agents assigned to commercial scale tax fraud generally are armed, and may travel with an undercover security contingent.
Maybe I am naĆÆve' but I like to think that a good percentage of IRS workers are normal Americans. People who just want to earn a living, obey the law, pay their taxes and make sure that everyone else does the same. Yes, there are some evil jerks in there; but I find it hard to believe that there is a horde of Federal Agents just waiting to enslave us all.
Those are all the correct questions to be asking.
Specifically, I cannot think of, and have not read/seen any justification for that kind of stockpiling other than which you have surmised (removal from circulation, additional paramilitary forces).
The IRS is not a militant arm for anything, in any way, shape or form, nor are they chartered or tasked to be that i am aware of. Only ones really is the secret service, and that has already been discussed elsewhere. IIRC, SS are independently supplied, and maintain their own armory and training systems, and coordinate that with FBI, DHS and the like.
I recall during Obama era a large stockpile of civi ammo being accumulated, then when questioned about it they "destroyed" it all. Was reportedly millions of rounds.
I have no doubt they will do anything to restrict 2A, including buying up civilian ammo, and/or price fixing ammo.
As for the IRS specifically, I can only deduce, as many have, they are arming yet more federal agents under the guise of self defense/security of federal agents and locations.
If it is actually for paramilitary reasons, it becomes pure speculation on my part, other than a couple facts: it seems to be a pretty small force. ~2600 is about 50 per state spread evenly. ~560 rifles, a handful of shotguns, not a lot of hardware.
If it's gun confiscating, or special operations, BATFE or anyone else is much better equipped and trained.
.....Another thought: both sides know the IRS has a good chance to go away when/if we win. Maybe, thinking like a criminal, they just want more of their foot soldiers/thugs armed to help fight back, cause chaos, give off intimidating air?
Maybe it's the new medium of exchange? God knows it would be worth more than the fiat crap we use today. .300 Win Mag is going for about $1.75/rd. .45ACP is about $ 0.60/rd. .556 is averaging about $0.70/rd. They don't work for getting candy out of a vending machine but then again if they're used correctly, you'd get that and more. The IRS is like the mafia. They're following the same script. New motto is "we'll get more with a smile and a gun than with just a smile alone."
To kill US citizens?
Hopefully not, but this apparently raised some concerns from Congressman Gaetz. If you read some of the commentary in this post, tptb may be trying to make ammo scarce for law-abiding citizens or manipulate the price. The level of corruption in government leaves loads of other, perhaps more nefarious, options on the table, too.
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Scary but we must be brave... Be prepared for anything frens š¤
The IRS staffing could be a guise for arming Soros antifa army.
Didn't the USDA buy up a bunch of ammo a couple of years ago? Was it to train their SWAT team? lol
See the above comment by u/Survey_girl - his/her personal knowledge/anecdote of armed USDA being mostly involved in food stamp fraud these days.
Here is one of the busts he was involved with in 2016....
http://archive.today/yXfeB
Impressive. Seems like it was a dual identity-theft and food stamp fraud investigation.
The latest news I could find, this on a cursory search, that specifically highlights the USDA is from 2014. That'd be during Obama's term, just for reference.
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/submachine-gun-usda-buy/2014/05/17/id/571905/
Looks like this isn't new, 2019 for example, >$900k of contracts to the same supplier for duty ammunition - https://www.usaspending.gov/search/?hash=5986d4a92fb4495be8bd5d4c0d2e384f
I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at here, but I started poking around and, for example, went into the second row of this, found the IRS enforcement and chose that then to federal disbursement (don't remember the exact name) and down the bottom there's a list of who apparently got money. I just poked into a couple, Variq and Palantir (a name associated with domestic spying, BTW), and looking at the charts for each it appears to be a steady and low level of outlays to these and then, just after 2020, these numbers skyrocket.
What exactly is this site USA Spending? Is it a watchdog site for government spending or something the government itself releases?
It's a government site (only the US government is able to register .gov domains), that details the winning bids for all the contracts the government puts out for bidding.
They gubmint did the same thing under obama. Definitely makes you wonder what they heck they're doing with it. My best guess is they're handing it out to illegals.
Every government branch has it's own police force I forget the law that requires this but we were talking about it back in 2020 when we found out the beurua of land management has a police force.
Hopefully there are seven hundred thousand employees so that should work out beautifully. Suicide weekend.
Now do the SS administration and US postal service
For building security
Maybe they know we're tired of eating cake.
I heard somewhere that if we didn't have a Federal Reserve, and if the Government owned their own money backed in physical gold, we wouldn't need to pay taxes and therefore wouldn't need the IRS.
Why do I hear the sweet sounds of harps and singing angels in the background as I read your comment? From your keyboard to God's ears, M4.