Given that he surely knows how unpopular that opinion is amongst his base, could that be a further hint that Mike Pence is secretly a white hat?
Trump did say back when the left stole the election "sometimes it takes more courage to do the wrong thing".
Thoughts?
No, but he has an exclusive representative, the pope!
What a joke, to think that God would only have ONE exclusive representative that talks through him. And the sheep obey. For almost 2000 years (and a lot more before that).
Lies & manipulation right in their face....and they just don't see it.
Corn Pope is a bad dude
From your keyboard to ... : )
Jesus drove the money lenders from the temple.
The bankers didn't conspire to kill him.
They just relocated.
Now the priests, however, they were pissed.
Jesus screwed with the vig.
House always needs its cut.
No more rakes for the rabbis (more accurately, the Sadducees and Pharisees)
Imagine if we had usury laws again... those poor, shitfucker bankers... however would they survive?! 🙄
Perhaps one day, we can deal with the next worst set of leeches...
https://youtu.be/hAUTDJGqIKs
At least pirates are honest thieves...
Privateering is the better way to go. It's legal!
https://youtu.be/ZIwzRkjn86w
Fren, if we wait for the NPCs to wake up, we'd better wait for Godot first. Their souls are not here to learn the lesson of the awakening; they are here to learn other lessons.
They can stay in the old world & enjoy it (or something).
"To feign disorder, one must possess strict discipline. To feign cowardice, one must posses great courage. To feign weakness, one must possess great superiority. Order and disorder depend on organization and structure. Courage and cowardice depend on posture and circumstances. Strengths and weaknesses depend on formation and disposition of the army."
Sun Tsu - The Art of War - Chapter 5 Military Strategy Classics of Ancient China / 2013 / page 10
"Though this be madness yet there is method in't."
Hamlet in Act II, scene ii.
he said, "sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing" not "the wrong thing".
I always thought that was a bizarre line in the speech. It seemed like he wanted Pence to let the election be stolen.
He didn't want Pence to violate the Constitution, which is what he would have done had he attempted to assert any unconstitutional authority to "reject" Electoral certificates. That's what the enemy wanted him to do, so they could claim it was a coup, and start hot civil war
It HAD to be stolen in order to root out all the corruption, expose bad actors and rid the entire system of grifters. If it hadn't happened, if it hadn't been stolen, where would we be? The deep state would not be exposed as it is now and Trump would be in office with the entire cabal trying to destroy him. Many people can't see that the entire effort could not happen without the first action. Otherwise, we would be in the same situation forever until full communism was implemented.
It had to be this way.
Then there's this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzDUVFRXGsA
Yes.
I've said all along that Pence is likely a white hat. Recall that on Jan6, Trump said that Pence doing the wrong thing would be the hardest thing he'd ever do.
Misquote.
Correct quote:
Confused, I am. Time will tell.
When you completely renovate a house, what do you do? You've got to rip up the flooring, strip the walls to the studs, replace the windows, doors, plumbing, electricity. You got to get the ugly out to get the beauty in.
Think Sun Tzu
If we are confused then so is the opposition
If Pence threw the vote back, every subsequent election would have the same result - the VP throwing the vote back when it didn't go their way.
Only body who has the constitutional authority to void Electoral appointments and thus, their votes, is SCOTUS.
I've always thought Pence was part of the WH and had to do what he did to have the Plan go forward.
"It had to be this way"...
I think what President Trump said about Pence on January 6t, 2021 is “it takes more courage to do nothing.”
I think it probably does take a lot of courage to think doing nothing can stop what is coming.
It seemed President Trump’s comment last night about Pence was lamenting what could have been if Pence hadn’t made a mistake. And, how the system can corrupt a “good” guy. Not a hint that Pence is a white hat.
Except that Pence made no mistake on Jan 6th.
This community has been having this debate for a couple years now. President Trump is the person who said Pence made a mistake.
I’ve come to believe Pence provided the cover for the January 6th false flag when he issued that letter saying he was powerless. When he did that he provided the “motive” for the January 6th False Flag. If he didn’t publish that letter MAGA would have left DC believing he was fighting for them. And, it would have been impossible to plausibly launch the false flag.
Had he not issued the letter and still done nothing, I would probably be hanging onto hope he was a white hat. But, I can’t believe a white hat would have poured gas on a volatile situation like that. And, in doing so, provide the basis for locking up the January 6th prisoners. Has he defended them at all?
Edit: Just want to say I’m not really arguing, just giving my opinion. I actually hope you are the one who is correct.
What Pence said here, was 100% correct.
The enemy wanted him to do what "MAGA" allegedly wanted him to do, which would have actually been unconstitutional. The enemy would then say "aha got 'em! It's a coup! Pew pew pew pew."
Pence's letter was calling the enemy's bluff and forcing them into making the first move at that stage of the rebellion. His action was comparable to sending the Star of the West to resupply Ft. Sumter. And he suckered them into firing, not really doing much damage, but nonetheless revealing their hand, which was that they wanted to have a truly violent, deadly day on Jan 6th. As we all know, that didn't happen. All that was left, was for the unlawful inauguration, the actual firing on Ft. Sumter, in keeping with the historical comparison.
The letter made no impact on what he did, and was always going to do. Say he doesn't publish it? He still wasn't going to act unconstitutionally and do what "some" wanted him to do. Unless he "rejected the votes" (again, he had no constitutional power to do so), it was inevitable that the historically and constitutionally illiterate "MAGA" still would have pinned him the scapegoat like Lost Cause propagandists did to Longstreet and Ewell at Gettysburg. That's exactly what the enemy wanted. Cause division. Get MAGA angry, and project it in the wrong direction to distract them from the real problems, and like killing two birds with one stone, go apeshit crazy and fuel a real war... instead, what happened was the "WoRst DaY iN HiStorY" the "DeAdLy iNSurERECTioN." Desired effect, thwarted.
Trump and Pence, together, made them cross the Rubicon.
What does it look like when we know whether or not Mike Pence is a white hat or black hat, or maybe just got played by the DS? That’s probably the most important question.
If reinstated, would that mean pres and vice pres? Maybe that's why the change of tune on Pence.
Trump and Pence are the legitimate winners of the 2020 election. It's a two man ticket.
https://americandigitalnews.com/index.php/2020/05/20/the-pence-fence-you-pick-a-side/
Lol imagine the confused vote when you cast your ballot for a Trump-Pence ticket in 2024.
I will not vote for him if Pence is on the ticket. Huge red flag if that happens.
If the 2020 election gets overturned doesn’t Pence have to come in as Trump’s VP? Maybe that’s why.
Doesn’t matter. If Pence is a traitor, we should attack him. If it’s a ruse, we should still attack him to maintain the ruse.
What mistake did Pence make at the Ohio rally?
Sorry. Worded it weirdly. Trump -- at the Ohio rally - said that Mike Pence was a good guy who made a mistake and got bad advice, referring to his betrayal.
We knew what you meant.
Oh, lol
No, the correct quote is:
Entirely different meaning, eh?
A "great guy" who violated his oath of office by illegally certifying a fraudulent election. But, he was a good boy, he just needs another chance...
Trump is the one that called Pence a "great guy", not the OP. What makes a good movie? "Great" actors.
Check your fire!
Check your fire!
.
u/#q461
That's... GREAT actors ?
.
Read it out loud, emphasize the GREAT, because it is in capital
letters, but make the sentence a question, not a statement.
.
u/#q123
.
If not great actors, what makes a movie GOOD?
The President of the Senate has absolutely 0 constitutional authority to void Electoral votes. Anyone believing otherwise, is a historically illiterate, constitutionally illiterate, sucker. The Republicans argued as much in 1876-77, but were wrong. Yes, Jefferson asserted such nonexistent power for himself, but that didn't make the Constitution say something it doesn't.
Granted, the Constitution doesn't give any authority to the Congress to void Electoral votes either.
So here we are, 220 years later, with a still unsettled Constitutional crisis.
Except not really. We have that body called the Judiciary. And under the Constitution, until it is changed, holds exclusive authority to settle all matters of law under said Constitution, including elections.
That is correct. But Mike Pence refused to uphold his oath of office by illegally certifying the fraudulent election. He has no power to "void" votes. But, he does have a constitutional duty to certify electoral votes- meaning, to decide whether or not a state has legally, and constitutionally presented its electoral votes to the senate so that those votes can be counted, or not. It is a technical difference.
You need to research exactly what happened in the senate on Jan. 6. Some states sent "dueling elector's" (constitutional term) to the senate. The senate invented an unconstitutional rules loophole on that day to "allow" the senate to refuse the legal, constitutional right of those states' delegate's to challenge their vote counts.
"Not certifying" is the same thing as voiding. There's no technical difference, just an argument of sophistry.
Please cite where in the Constitution, does the text state that the President of the Senate is authorized to "certify" anything? I'll save you the trouble... you won't find it, because it's not there.
The POTS has one explicitly defined duty, and one duty only, which is to open all the certificates. That's it. The Constitution is silent as to anything else. All the rest is inference. And there's the rub. You, along with countless others over the past 220 years, are arguing what you believe the POTS should have the authority to do, or not do, regardless of what the Constitution actually says or doesn't say. But what one wants something to say, doesn't change what it actually says, or doesn't say. Because of this lack of foresight on the part of the Framers (alas, human nature), the debate over the mess has continued for over two centuries. The argument that the POTS has such alleged authority, is the absolute weakest of all of the arguments. If there is one positive takeaway from the findings of the 1877 Electoral Commission, it's that they definitively put this unfounded argument to bed. If you'd read their reports, you'd not still be attempting to rally behind an utterly stupid argument, pushed by the same people who push Calhounian Lost Cause "unilateral withdrawal" drivel. They are convincing you to rally behind a logically void argument, in order to make you look stupid.
Now, arguably the "necessary and proper" clause does authorize Congress with the power to create federal statutory law to iron out the nuts and bolts of the Count procedures, as in the appointment of tellers, record keeping, order by which the certificates are opened and counted (alphabetically, order received, oldest state first etc.) etc etc. We can see as far back as the 1st Congress, this process playing out. But this doesn't give Congress any authority to grant itself unilateral judicial power as far as adjudicating Electoral disputes, which would render the separation of powers between the Legislature and the Judiciary moot.
I'm quite well aware of what exactly happened.
Where in the Constitution would we find such a term? Again, I'll save you the trouble. You won't. It's not there. The concept and term of "dueling electors" actually comes from the debates over what was to be done during the Civil War elections, which spilt over into the Reconstruction period. Though the term started appearing in speeches, writings and debates, even in Congressional resolutions, it never made its way into statutory law let alone the Constitution. Again, while the concept itself is open to debate, you're arguing that something is in the Constitution, that simply isn't there. As to the concept of "dueling Electors", there are the Electors appointed by the states, in accordance with state and federal law (or at least purported to be) and there are Electors who dispute the appointment of their opponents as having been done illegally. The only certificates that make it to the "Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate" are those of the Electors legally appointed. The question then that arises, is over whether the Electors appointed by the state were done so legally. And yes, this is a valid issue, but one that is not up to the POTS or the Congress to determine, but up to the courts, more specifically, SCOTUS, at least unless and until Congress constitutionally establishes a lower tribunal specifically tasked with Electoral adjudication.
Rules loophole? What rules? Made on what day? What's the loophole? You can't just keep making shit up like this. On Jan 6, 2021, the Congress followed the procedures as laid out in 3 U.S. Code Chapter 1, which was derived from the 1887 ECA. The Congress and the POTS followed the "law". Whether or not everything in these laws are constitutional, is the actual issue. In any case, Congress did what they did, and the only legal remedy that remained (and still remains) was for Trump to appeal to SCOTUS for justice. Bluntly put, despite his "complaining" he didn't really do a damn thing, a strategy which appears to have been intentional. Whether or not SCOTUS was compromised, failed in their responsibility, or was in on letting the sting play out, so that the military could be used, is still up for debate. I don't know either way. Can't say. All I can say, is what the Constitution says, and how the process is supposed to be followed.
tldr; your anger is justified, but you're blaming the wrong person, which is exactly what the enemy wants.
I appreciate your thorough reply, and I get what you are saying. As you do appear to have a good understanding of the process, I will keep this reply brief.
You claim to know exactly what what happened in the senate; but you don't seem to understand what the senate rules committee did on that day with a sudden [senate] rules change, that in effect inserted the senate rules committee into the election process.
This is correct, and this is precisely why Mike Pence needed to refuse to certify the election. That issue, the validity of the state appointed electors, was never considered by the senate, because the senate rules committee inserted itself into the election process- an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers, to rule that the challengers were invalid(!), and refused to hear that challenge.
And you are also correct in that this specific matter was a case that needed to be addressed by the SCOTUS.
That is the key issue. When the senate rules committee invented a loophole to insert themselves into the election process (do your homework if you don't know what I mean) only hours prior to state electors challenging the validity of their state electors, Mike Pence had a constitutional duty to protect the constitution. He needed to stop the certification, and force the SCOTUS to rule on the constitutionality of the senate rules change. He did not, thus violating his oath of office, and allowing Joseph Robinette Biden to become an illegally installed POTUS.
More accurately, the counting process, a process set by 3 USC, statutory law that to a significant degree, is unconstitutional. Congress has no constitutional authority to insert itself into any Electoral adjudication matters.
Where in the Constitution, is the President of the Senate explicitly authorized with this alleged power to "certify" the count of the Electoral votes, let alone judge as to the legitimate appointment of said Electors?
Where in the Constitution, is the Senate explicitly authorized to "consider" the "validity" of the state appointed Electors?
That's a BINGO. So let's focus on that actual issue, as opposed to wasting time on arguments in sophistry.
Here's some better homework, research how Congress invented a power that the Constitution never authorized, to insert itself into the Electoral adjudication process. Start in the 1862 and work your way through 1876, the ECA, and the codification of that statute. "Senate rules loopholes" are peanuts. Go for the big fish, e.g. the unconstitutional intrusion of the entire Legislative body into the realm of the Judiciary.
And he has the constitutional duty to not violate the Constitution. Violating the Constitution, to protect it, is still a violation of the Constitution. How we win matters, and violating the Constitution to save it, was not the way, especially when there were and are still several constitutionally sound remedies yet to be exercised.
You mean, the COUNT of the Electoral votes. Again, there is no "certification" power explicitly authorized by the Constitution, not to the POTS, not to Congress. Yes, it's a glaring flaw of the Constitution, but alas, it's there. We can't just imagine in a fix that isn't there.
Trump could have filed a direct challenge to SCOTUS anytime, just as Bush did in 2000. Technically, he didn't. But he still could. And yet, he hasn't. Why is that? And again, this "Senate rules change" is a deadend argument. The real argument is over the unlawful actions of state governments to appoint Electors as "winners" of elections that were unconstitutionally run. That's the whole enchilada.
Donald J. Trump was the lawful President of the United States of America, clothed with immense power. He was the Commander-in-Chief of the greatest military on earth, whose duty was to enforce federal law and the US Constitution, and to suppress the insurrection and rebellion that occurred in 2020. And yet, the Resident was allowed to occupy the WH. Where was Trump? If you're going to apply this standard against Pence, why not Trump, especially given his exponentially greater power as POTUS as Rome was left burning (at least, from what we saw). Come, let us reason together. You're Longstreeting Pence to Leeionize Trump.
I like to think, and hope that it's true, that there was more going on behind the curtain with Trump and Pence making the hard decisions to sacrifice the Alamo in order to win Texas (not a big fan of the politics that pushed that domino, but I digress...). Still waiting for that grand reveal. It's been 2 years and popcorn is getting too expensive.
Agreed. And that is a matter best left to constitutional attorney's, and state, and federal judiciaries to rule on.
While we disagree on whether or not Pence had the constitutional authority to halt the counting of the electoral votes, he most certainly has a mouth, and he failed to use it to call out the clearly unethical, and arguably unconstitutional shenanigans of the senate rules committee on Jan. 6.
However one want to slice it- senate rules changes that were made on Jan. 6 were clearly done to affect the electoral counting process, and that alone qualifies as election interference.
Mike Pence did not contest that, and still does not to this day. Trump did contest the election, and still does to this day. One refused to uphold their oath of office- the other is still trying to uphold theirs.
He had no Constitutional authority to stop what was being done.
Lawyers attempted to fight Trump's legal battle for him, in a haphazard fashion. Can't tell me that DJT was less capable than GWB to get a challenge heard by SCOTUS. Either DJT is in fact 1.) a moron 2.) an enemy plant 3.) a genius or 4.) a great actor for whoever is truly behind the curtain. I still lean towards a combination of 3+4.
Not a mistake at all. An intentionally constitutionally correct action.
Correct statement. Crack open the Constitution some time.
Please elaborate on what you think this asserted "legal" argument says
Why would an unconstitutional action from him, have any impact on whether or not SCOTUS held final judgement over the disputed unlawful Electoral appointments? Under the Constitution, the POTS and Congress only possess ministerial responsibilities when it comes to the counting of the Electoral votes.
But I just might be the lunatic you're looking for.
Just spitting facts.
Says the dude failing to demonstrate that he's done any research at all...
Man's got insults! Lovely character.
But do you know that you're an ad?
https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/d4xb45/south-park-all-ads-lie
u/CHAOS_ACTUAL where do [they] find these [people]?
Actually, I've known it since the beginning.
You only thought you knew, but you didn't. Close, but not quite.
No on Pence. The entire country is suffering, pence could have shown the process to ot accept fraudulent election electors.
Now Nancy's House got rid of the law that's been on the books forever. No longer does a vice president have a role to stop a fraudulent election.
Pence should have done it when he was supposed to.
A law is not a Constitutional Amendment. Laws can be repealed or modified - they are not permanent. This law took away the ability of Harris to arbitrarily accept/reject electors - I call that a win as long as patriots control the House and Senate.
Correct. The majority of the ECA 1887 was unconstitutional. However, most of this attempt to "fix" that section of what's now US Code, is also unconstitutional. The Constitution does not give Congress any judicial authority regarding election disputes.
Pence had no constitutional authority to do what you're suggesting.
All that shit that Nancy's house did will be thrown out. Every bit of it!!