It's sad how much of this is out there. The same "fascist, racist, misogynist, homophobe, etc etc" line delivered by damn near every single one of them. And not a single one of them have ever actually watched a full Charlie Kirk campus appearance.
They teach us to play Simon Says and Follow the Leader in first grade so we'll be compliant little followers with no independent thought processes getting in the way of obeying authority figures. Everybody follows the herd at some point. It's inescapable but also beneficial to survival in its own way.
Then the freethinkers, such as we, begin to gradually separate themselves from the herd once they begin to attain a certain level of intellectual maturity (which usually happens well before the age of majority, if it's going to occur at all, and continues through young adulthood and beyond :)
True. But one reason everyone is doing it because the corrupt media regularly lies and lies by omission to elevate liberals and demonize conservatives.
I've seen several leftists justifying their hate for Charlie Kirk by quoting a clip of him saying, "I don't like the word empathy." The media played this clip out of context to portray him as a cold, uncaring man.
In context, his words had a very different meaning. He said, “I don't like the word empathy. I think it's made up. Sympathy is better because no one can really feel how another person feels.” He was discussing a semantic nuance, not saying he didn't care how other people felt.
I bet if you took the jabbed, and non-jabbed and ran the experiment on them, the jabbed would easily follow along, while the un-jabbed probably would not stand up, would defy the crowd.
I kid you not, I just saw a post two days ago from someone I know. Ukraine profile pic. Talking about how he aches so much when he gets his covid jab. 2nd one is always worse he says. Oh, and the shingles vaxx is a real killer. Feels like death consuming him. BUT, it could all be so much worse if he actually got Covid or Shingles. And all the sheep on his feed cheer him on and mention the same things.
MOMof DataRepublican
@data_republican
I know a person who had like 6 covid shots and, when advised, accompanying boosters. She got covid last year and proclaimed it to be The Worst she has ever felt and that she felt the effects for more than 6 months. Then, she went on to say how thankful she was for the vaccine because it could have been so much worse. True story.
I heard almost the same from someone this past week. The belief that Covid “would have been much worse if I hadn’t taken the vaccine,” was the kill shot propaganda.
I would have neither sat silently refusing nor stood silently complying.
I would have immediately started asking the others, "Why are you all standing when you hear a beep? Did you all get that instruction? Because I didn't. I wonder why! Lemme go ask the person in charge..." and then I'd have left the room to go get answers.
I think we should consider why this experiment worked. It is reproducible, btw. But why?
Humans are social animals. We actually have neurons in our brains specifically laid out in circuits that help us recognize patterns and mimic them. It improves social cohesion and allows us to function better as a herd. If you've ever watched wildebeest run or fish school and watch these incredibly elegant movements, or watched how they collectively attack predators, shield their young or vulnerable, etc, you've seen similar hard-wired behaviors in vertebrates. It's an adaptive advantage.
Humans, however, also have this incredibly overdeveloped (relative to those other examples) frontal cortex. That's the override portion of the brain. That's the part that processes the reflexes and the hard-wired behaviors and gives us the option to more thoroughly analyze a situation, and override it. In other words, that's the part of the brain that allows us to think critically. That, too, is incredibly adaptive. We're far more sophisticated and nuanced in our reactions to stimuli than most other critters. We're not nearly as predictable as prey and we're better hunters. Again, all of that improves survival.
But, that runs contrary to the herding instinct. So there's a balance. Too little social cohesion from too much override and we end up with anarchy and the tribe dies off from various threats. Too much, and we end up locking in maladaptive behaviors which also get the herd killed. We're constantly balancing this.
This experiment just shows the behavior in practice. The study subject just goes into that more primitive thinking, follows the instinct to conform, and dutifully teaches the behavior to the next generation without the front cortical override. Given that she's Asian, she comes from a culture that encourages this. In America, of course, our culture deliberately discourages this. So, as you can see, this isn't purely biologically controlled. There's some "nurture" as well as "nature" in this trait.
From an evolutionary perspective, it does make a lot of sense to have a hardwired sense of social conformity, even if that overrides cognition because in primitive times, it would be extraordinarily difficult to survive alone.
And completely agree on a portion of this being learned behavior. Unfortunately, our German-centric western education methodology strongly encourages group think and conformity. Which makes sense given that educational methodology originated during the industrial revolution and the powers that be wanted the citizenry to be good meat robots to man the factories.
Given the horrific political implications of this phenomena, it's something we pedes must always be wary of. It's a very small % of this population that has genuine immunity to these group think pressures.
Same argument can be made in regards to fear but just as is the case with OP's post, once you get beyond a certain level of intellect/thinking ability it only become a greater and greater hindrance and problem(anxiety increasing in prevalence along with IQ underscores this...)
People need to be shown better options, and this always starts with one individual that isn't afraid to stand out...............
Interesting experiment. This is the reason critical reasoning skills are NOT taught in our classrooms today. The powers to be want everyone to follow what THEY are telling them to do. Do we need the Federal Reserve? Nope, but the powers to be say it is necessary for a strong economy, thus everyone and their dog allows a non-Governmental agency to run their financial lives. We need to seriously think about the benefit our education system is having on our children. Are they even learning how to write their names, in cursive, on a piece of blank white paper with a No. 2 pencil? That is the most basic thing a school should be in existence for, to teach kids how to read and write. Yet for some reason they do a miserable job of that one basic function.
This is literally the Stanley Milgram experience.Stanley Milgram was an social psychologist best known for his obedience experiments conducted in the early 1960s. These experiments revealed disturbing insights into human behavior, particularly, how ordinary people can commit harmful acts simply because they are following orders from an authority figure.
Astounding…. Not one person rebels. I’m pretty sure I’ve read of a similar experiment, where, in the second round, they put in one person who refuses to do it, and eventually convinces the others to ignore the stimulus as well. There is hope.
I want a 5M grant to re-run this experiment, but instead of standing up, I want them to stand up and put all the money in their wallets into a fake 'save the children' can I put on the counter for them.
Then I replicate this in every grocery store, everywhere
Then I convince every point of sale terminal company to help me by putting it as a final gotcha donation request or "would you like to round up" at the end of your purchase, that doesn't let you NOT give if you want your reciept.
There have been a lot of studies on human beings and conformity despite "cognitive noise/conflict", (for lack of a better term).
I've always been very curious about these studies because this tribalism/group think phenomena makes us weaker and easier for bad people to govern or push in directions. Just look at the C19 "vaccinations".
At least for the studies I've read, there's this 6-8% group that seems to be hardwired to just NGAF about social pressure, specifically when it comes to allowing that social pressure to override that person's cognitive sense.
Again, this is just for the studies that I've had time to read, but they don't seem to really understand that 6-8% as to why they are that way and how they got to be that way.
Regardless, about 90% of the population has some degree of being susceptible to group think, so it's something we must always be on guard against.
The thing is, this also happens when you act like a good example to others so it can be used for good, and when it comes to one person doing something outside of the norm that is in some way perceived as beneficial then it doesn't take a group to make it happen....
You can actually use this to BREAK peoples conformity, I see it happen every Christmas when parking outside of malls is packed full, when I see a clear spot that isn't actually a assigned parking spot but just a area of flat large enough with snow on it I park my truck there, and when I come back out it is always the case that now a lot of others have done the same thing....
Strictly speaking you aren't so much breaking their conformity as you are showing them something else to conform to, but as long as it is perceived as being some kind of good or of some benefit, people will follow(have lots of examples like this, this is just 1 of them)....
This, except for the in the family conclusion. Toddlers and teenagers can do some really bad critical thinking that need correction and sometimes time and place requires "because I said so."
this works both ways. we can call them king makers or black sheep. but the few who are can change this sheep mentality to the good side.
Church and Military does this trick all the time. We think it is to make sure we stay awake. It creates a subconscious sheep mentality.
at Church it drives my kids crazy but I tell them we are at Church so just play along. The beep at Church is the Pastor.
in Military it would be who ever the Leader is at the time.
the black sheep or king makers natural ability is to either follow or to assert themselves into asking a question like why?
for me I see it before it happens and if it makes sense and does no harm I will go along with it in Church, Work, and when I was in the Military.
90 plus percent of people are just sheep. maybe more. The proof is the past 10 years. We need more people like Charlie Kirk and Trump--those who have the gift to be the beep makers. Black Sheep and king makers are not beep makers. They are beep questioners. haha
The vsauce guy made an episode about Conformity in his Mindfield serie.
IIRC, they put one person to test in a group with 3 actors, then are shown a basic "Which line is longer?" test, were the answers were made to be as easy and obvious as possible. The one point however, is that everyone answer one at a time, with the test person being the last to answer (so he hears all the actors' answers first, then have to say his own).
For the first few tests, the actors and the test person answers all questions correctly. However, after a little while, all the actors start to give the same wrong answer. At this moment, the vast majority of people will actually give the same wrong answer, rather than go against the flow and say the right answer.
To me, this was an even better test, because it shows that people will willingly say something wrong, just to "fit in the group". It's not just doing something without reasons, it's actually lying and saying a different answer than what you know is true.
Well, the Asian gal may of picked that up at home with old family traditions and expectations being passed down. IDK but, I have seen a ton of elevator pranks and Asians in Japan(I think it is) and, they almost always get the random rider to join in with what ever crazy stuff the actors do with out saying a word to them. Everything from, each floor someone would exit backwards off the elevator and the random person followed suit even though, no one was on the elevator with him by the time he got off to, every time an actor got on they would turn and face the wall and stand like that and yes, the random person watched then, turned and faced the wall as well. Most people I know would of been chuckling at everyone or straight up asking wtf they all doing that for "make it make sense or I aint playing" type sentiment.
In trad Asian culture it would be rude to do otherwise so it seems.
It's why taxes are so high in NE states! Herd mentality controls far too much! However, perhaps the tendency to follow the herd can turn this country around if the leftist control of media can be stopped.
"I don't know why people hate this guy named Charlie Kirk, but everyone is doing it, so I should, too."
-Libtards
It's sad how much of this is out there. The same "fascist, racist, misogynist, homophobe, etc etc" line delivered by damn near every single one of them. And not a single one of them have ever actually watched a full Charlie Kirk campus appearance.
Clearly I'm not "normal" because I've never "followed the herd". I don't know what's wrong with me.
God bless the black sheep.
Which is most of GAW :)
I'm just faulty.
Kek!
Thanks! :)
I've been the black sheep of my immediate family most of my life. 🙈 I would disagree with my father on the color of the sky lol
They teach us to play Simon Says and Follow the Leader in first grade so we'll be compliant little followers with no independent thought processes getting in the way of obeying authority figures. Everybody follows the herd at some point. It's inescapable but also beneficial to survival in its own way.
Then the freethinkers, such as we, begin to gradually separate themselves from the herd once they begin to attain a certain level of intellectual maturity (which usually happens well before the age of majority, if it's going to occur at all, and continues through young adulthood and beyond :)
True. But one reason everyone is doing it because the corrupt media regularly lies and lies by omission to elevate liberals and demonize conservatives.
I've seen several leftists justifying their hate for Charlie Kirk by quoting a clip of him saying, "I don't like the word empathy." The media played this clip out of context to portray him as a cold, uncaring man.
In context, his words had a very different meaning. He said, “I don't like the word empathy. I think it's made up. Sympathy is better because no one can really feel how another person feels.” He was discussing a semantic nuance, not saying he didn't care how other people felt.
The media does things like this all the time.
I bet if you took the jabbed, and non-jabbed and ran the experiment on them, the jabbed would easily follow along, while the un-jabbed probably would not stand up, would defy the crowd.
I kid you not, I just saw a post two days ago from someone I know. Ukraine profile pic. Talking about how he aches so much when he gets his covid jab. 2nd one is always worse he says. Oh, and the shingles vaxx is a real killer. Feels like death consuming him. BUT, it could all be so much worse if he actually got Covid or Shingles. And all the sheep on his feed cheer him on and mention the same things.
THIS IS STILL GOING ON TODAY. It's insane frens!
I believe you mate. I don't even know how to communicate with these people. Sadly, I don't think they are savable.
https://x.com/data_republican/status/1970114944008941766
MOMof DataRepublican
@data_republican
I know a person who had like 6 covid shots and, when advised, accompanying boosters. She got covid last year and proclaimed it to be The Worst she has ever felt and that she felt the effects for more than 6 months. Then, she went on to say how thankful she was for the vaccine because it could have been so much worse. True story.
I heard almost the same from someone this past week. The belief that Covid “would have been much worse if I hadn’t taken the vaccine,” was the kill shot propaganda.
I would have neither sat silently refusing nor stood silently complying.
I would have immediately started asking the others, "Why are you all standing when you hear a beep? Did you all get that instruction? Because I didn't. I wonder why! Lemme go ask the person in charge..." and then I'd have left the room to go get answers.
But that's just me
That's cause your a sheepdog. We should all be sheepdogs.
If your old enough to remember ,Momma used to say ,'if your friend jumped off a cliff would you too'.
MY MOM said that regularly lol
I’d be like “what the hell are you people doing?” “Everyone else is doing it” “Yeah, sooo??” Ridiculous
Same.
"Excuse me, but why are all of you standing up?"
"Because of the ding...didn't you hear it?"
"Um yes, but I'm not a pavlovs dog, where's your treat?"
"I dunno, but everyone else was doing it"
"So when it dings you stand up? If I make a different ding, will you all take off your clothing and start having sex with each other?"
(usually that ends the conversation)
I think we should consider why this experiment worked. It is reproducible, btw. But why?
Humans are social animals. We actually have neurons in our brains specifically laid out in circuits that help us recognize patterns and mimic them. It improves social cohesion and allows us to function better as a herd. If you've ever watched wildebeest run or fish school and watch these incredibly elegant movements, or watched how they collectively attack predators, shield their young or vulnerable, etc, you've seen similar hard-wired behaviors in vertebrates. It's an adaptive advantage.
Humans, however, also have this incredibly overdeveloped (relative to those other examples) frontal cortex. That's the override portion of the brain. That's the part that processes the reflexes and the hard-wired behaviors and gives us the option to more thoroughly analyze a situation, and override it. In other words, that's the part of the brain that allows us to think critically. That, too, is incredibly adaptive. We're far more sophisticated and nuanced in our reactions to stimuli than most other critters. We're not nearly as predictable as prey and we're better hunters. Again, all of that improves survival.
But, that runs contrary to the herding instinct. So there's a balance. Too little social cohesion from too much override and we end up with anarchy and the tribe dies off from various threats. Too much, and we end up locking in maladaptive behaviors which also get the herd killed. We're constantly balancing this.
This experiment just shows the behavior in practice. The study subject just goes into that more primitive thinking, follows the instinct to conform, and dutifully teaches the behavior to the next generation without the front cortical override. Given that she's Asian, she comes from a culture that encourages this. In America, of course, our culture deliberately discourages this. So, as you can see, this isn't purely biologically controlled. There's some "nurture" as well as "nature" in this trait.
Well said, MA.
From an evolutionary perspective, it does make a lot of sense to have a hardwired sense of social conformity, even if that overrides cognition because in primitive times, it would be extraordinarily difficult to survive alone.
And completely agree on a portion of this being learned behavior. Unfortunately, our German-centric western education methodology strongly encourages group think and conformity. Which makes sense given that educational methodology originated during the industrial revolution and the powers that be wanted the citizenry to be good meat robots to man the factories.
Given the horrific political implications of this phenomena, it's something we pedes must always be wary of. It's a very small % of this population that has genuine immunity to these group think pressures.
Same argument can be made in regards to fear but just as is the case with OP's post, once you get beyond a certain level of intellect/thinking ability it only become a greater and greater hindrance and problem(anxiety increasing in prevalence along with IQ underscores this...)
People need to be shown better options, and this always starts with one individual that isn't afraid to stand out...............
Interesting experiment. This is the reason critical reasoning skills are NOT taught in our classrooms today. The powers to be want everyone to follow what THEY are telling them to do. Do we need the Federal Reserve? Nope, but the powers to be say it is necessary for a strong economy, thus everyone and their dog allows a non-Governmental agency to run their financial lives. We need to seriously think about the benefit our education system is having on our children. Are they even learning how to write their names, in cursive, on a piece of blank white paper with a No. 2 pencil? That is the most basic thing a school should be in existence for, to teach kids how to read and write. Yet for some reason they do a miserable job of that one basic function.
This.
This is literally the Stanley Milgram experience.Stanley Milgram was an social psychologist best known for his obedience experiments conducted in the early 1960s. These experiments revealed disturbing insights into human behavior, particularly, how ordinary people can commit harmful acts simply because they are following orders from an authority figure.
Astounding…. Not one person rebels. I’m pretty sure I’ve read of a similar experiment, where, in the second round, they put in one person who refuses to do it, and eventually convinces the others to ignore the stimulus as well. There is hope.
I want a 5M grant to re-run this experiment, but instead of standing up, I want them to stand up and put all the money in their wallets into a fake 'save the children' can I put on the counter for them.
Then I replicate this in every grocery store, everywhere
Then I convince every point of sale terminal company to help me by putting it as a final gotcha donation request or "would you like to round up" at the end of your purchase, that doesn't let you NOT give if you want your reciept.
OH WAIT
You see, that experiment would never work on me in a million years.
I'm the guy who runs a stop sign when there are no other cars approaching and I know it's completely safe to do so.
Everybody else in the world stops at the stop sign whether there's cars present or not because it's a law.
Culturally, she may be already indoctrinated for obedience.
Stanley Milgram would be proud!
There have been a lot of studies on human beings and conformity despite "cognitive noise/conflict", (for lack of a better term).
I've always been very curious about these studies because this tribalism/group think phenomena makes us weaker and easier for bad people to govern or push in directions. Just look at the C19 "vaccinations".
At least for the studies I've read, there's this 6-8% group that seems to be hardwired to just NGAF about social pressure, specifically when it comes to allowing that social pressure to override that person's cognitive sense.
Again, this is just for the studies that I've had time to read, but they don't seem to really understand that 6-8% as to why they are that way and how they got to be that way.
Regardless, about 90% of the population has some degree of being susceptible to group think, so it's something we must always be on guard against.
This is not me, lol.
It's very frustrating to deal with though and my experience isnt limited to just the CONVID fiasco.
Replace standing with wearing a mask.
The thing is, this also happens when you act like a good example to others so it can be used for good, and when it comes to one person doing something outside of the norm that is in some way perceived as beneficial then it doesn't take a group to make it happen....
You can actually use this to BREAK peoples conformity, I see it happen every Christmas when parking outside of malls is packed full, when I see a clear spot that isn't actually a assigned parking spot but just a area of flat large enough with snow on it I park my truck there, and when I come back out it is always the case that now a lot of others have done the same thing....
Strictly speaking you aren't so much breaking their conformity as you are showing them something else to conform to, but as long as it is perceived as being some kind of good or of some benefit, people will follow(have lots of examples like this, this is just 1 of them)....
This, except for the in the family conclusion. Toddlers and teenagers can do some really bad critical thinking that need correction and sometimes time and place requires "because I said so."
this works both ways. we can call them king makers or black sheep. but the few who are can change this sheep mentality to the good side.
Church and Military does this trick all the time. We think it is to make sure we stay awake. It creates a subconscious sheep mentality.
at Church it drives my kids crazy but I tell them we are at Church so just play along. The beep at Church is the Pastor.
in Military it would be who ever the Leader is at the time.
the black sheep or king makers natural ability is to either follow or to assert themselves into asking a question like why?
for me I see it before it happens and if it makes sense and does no harm I will go along with it in Church, Work, and when I was in the Military.
90 plus percent of people are just sheep. maybe more. The proof is the past 10 years. We need more people like Charlie Kirk and Trump--those who have the gift to be the beep makers. Black Sheep and king makers are not beep makers. They are beep questioners. haha
I'd be asking, "Why are you people doing that?"
The vsauce guy made an episode about Conformity in his Mindfield serie.
IIRC, they put one person to test in a group with 3 actors, then are shown a basic "Which line is longer?" test, were the answers were made to be as easy and obvious as possible. The one point however, is that everyone answer one at a time, with the test person being the last to answer (so he hears all the actors' answers first, then have to say his own).
For the first few tests, the actors and the test person answers all questions correctly. However, after a little while, all the actors start to give the same wrong answer. At this moment, the vast majority of people will actually give the same wrong answer, rather than go against the flow and say the right answer.
To me, this was an even better test, because it shows that people will willingly say something wrong, just to "fit in the group". It's not just doing something without reasons, it's actually lying and saying a different answer than what you know is true.
Well, the Asian gal may of picked that up at home with old family traditions and expectations being passed down. IDK but, I have seen a ton of elevator pranks and Asians in Japan(I think it is) and, they almost always get the random rider to join in with what ever crazy stuff the actors do with out saying a word to them. Everything from, each floor someone would exit backwards off the elevator and the random person followed suit even though, no one was on the elevator with him by the time he got off to, every time an actor got on they would turn and face the wall and stand like that and yes, the random person watched then, turned and faced the wall as well. Most people I know would of been chuckling at everyone or straight up asking wtf they all doing that for "make it make sense or I aint playing" type sentiment. In trad Asian culture it would be rude to do otherwise so it seems.
It's why taxes are so high in NE states! Herd mentality controls far too much! However, perhaps the tendency to follow the herd can turn this country around if the leftist control of media can be stopped.
I pride myself on not blending in or following the pack.
For example, I constantly drive 5 MPH below the speed limit everywhere.
Your normal sheep will pass me up to get to the red light before I do.
Did I mention the light is already red when they pass me up?
Put up two velvet ropes and put a sign that says "please form line here" and people will line up for absolutely no reason.