Maybe the "U.S." Postal service should envision doing their fucking jobs properly. Anyone send a certified mail letter that was actually signed for and not lost in the last 2 years? I work for a busy law office where lots of certified mail has to be sent; not only by me but by the courts to provide summons for new court cases (inform people they are being sued) and for subpoenas, etc. You'd be surprised how many of them, a year later, still say "in transit to the next facility" or some such bullshit. Or, you call them, and they will blatantly tell you it was probably dropped off without a signature. Certified mail. And they're not trying to give you your money back for NOT delivering on the thing you paid for, that's for sure. They suck so bad.
See this shit pisses me off. I work in a post office as a carrier and I can't explain how much time I spend signing for certified letters from the clerks(carriers sign for the letters first for record keeping) and then having to get out of my truck park it, turn the wheels, run up to the door, have someone not answer, spend time filling out a slip letting them know they have a certified letter waiting for them ar the post office and THIS WHOLE TIME NO ONE ELSE IS ACTUALLY DOING IT?! Damnit all the wasted hours of actually doing my job to discover I was the only one.
Then my hat is off to you - if you're a postal worker actually doing their job, then my nasty comments are in no way directed to you - I seriously wish there were more of you. It's incredibly frustrating from the consumer's end. But I would also say if you're doing the right thing, please don't stop. You're better than the vast majority of your colleagues.
It gets delivered to the recommended address. It just gets signed by the carrier with a gps tracked scanner. Covid is the reason. Nobody can touch the scanner but the carrier.
There's a little green card on a certified mail letter that is signed by the recipient when you send it return receipt requested. This predates covid. I could show you a piece of certified mail I sent in 2017 that still says "In Transit to the Next Facility" on the tracking online. They just suck. AND they helped biden cheat in the election. Not sure why anyone would defend these incompetent assholes.
If you try to tell them your tax dollars pay their salaries, they'll be the first to tell you that they're not federally operated. But, since they got bailed out, our tax dollars DO in fact pay their salaries, so they can suck it.
The top techno-geeks at the cyber symposium said repeatedly that if you use any off the shelf system, it can be hacked. They advocated dropping technology and going back to "Amish" voting.
Sorry, I still don't trust this shit. Is anything really "unhackable"?
I feel that paper ballots, in person, with a chain of custody is the most secure. But hell, I honestly wouldn't even trust that 100% anymore!
Blockchain removes the possibility of human error and or corruption, which is the only real problem with paper ballots and chain of custody.
The blockchain isn't something controlled by any one person, which is what he means by "next to unhackable". Below video I showed my dad a few months back that eased his mind about blockchain and btc:
Blockchain is really useful and important technology. I think there's a good reason nobody knows who Satoshi is (name credited to Bitcoin blockchain whitepaper), just like nobody knows who Q is. Blockchain very well could be one of the many stones David threw to slay Goliath.
Not by mail though... Still vulnerable to harvesting, etc... There are plenty of hard up folks who sold their voice for gas cards, gift cards, cash and so-on...
I will concede that a quantum computer would be likely able to crack the encryption fairly easily of a block chain set up on a traditional system.
Though… we dont know if Q computers are there yet to process the algorithms to crack a block chain… however, if systems are developed enough to hack using a quantum computer, then they are also capable enough to run a new type of block chain on… lets call it a quantum block chain. If block chains can be run using quantum computers, then i will go out on a limb and say it will be unhackable… but i digress
If a centralized agency (i.e. NSA) is capable of monitoring devices globally, is it so much of a stretch to imagine such an agency modifying individual blocks in the ledger, illicitly on all devices that contain the ledger, assuming they’re capable of manipulating the hash? I’ll admit, manipulating the hash would probably be the hardest part but I certainly wouldn’t consider it impossible.
You are correct which is why i said almost impossible. I would never claim anything as 100% unhackable… but first you would need to find all the servers the vote block chain is on… and if you get this far undetected, you would then need to hack more than 50% of the servers to manipulate the data in a way the block chain thinks the corrupt data is the correct/majority data
Okay fair enough. And I’m not trying to call you out or anything, just genuinely curious.
I see these sort of bad faith players like USPS advocating for this sort of thing and I can’t help but wonder if the goal is to build faith under the pretense of “unhackable” only to use that as cover to hack it. I mean, this go around, they only had to say it was the most secure election ever without even having a basis for saying so.
The key, is that the system has to be truly decentralized… because if is controlled only by one entity, then it will always be at risk to potential bad actors…
I agree and that’s sort of what I mean. I don’t consider it decentralized if a singular entity has access and potential control over the entire ledger or at least a majority. That’s hypothetical of course.
Laymans terms, Blockchain works like this. Think of a chain link. One link is attached to the next which is attached to the next, and so on and so forth. Now assume one link is data, your vote. The chain link (block), your data, has a unique Hash number that is its identification as well as information stored within that block (heavily encrypted). There is also a hash signature appended on to your hash from the block before yours and the one after… making up your unique hash number.
Say your black hash is 52…. The block before yours is A2, and the one after yours would be 7B
That makes your unique number A2 52 7B
If someone would remove your data and place it else where the hash’s wont allign and the system will know there is an issue.
Better yet, block chain is also decentralized, meaning it is not on one network or system… and they are always in constant communication with each other. So if someone hacks a server and deletes out data the rest of the systems/servers that have the data automatically recognize something is missing and will auto correct the corrupted/missing data… The only way you can actually successfully hack Blockchain is that you need to hack the majority of the servers simultaneously and delete more than 50% of the data.
In doing this majority of the servers would hold the missing data and therefore the overall system would think that is the correct information. If you cannot attack more than 50% of the data simultaneously ,it will always revert back to the correct data. This is how Blockchain is almost un hackable
Thats the thing, random people cant just randomly add what they feel on the block chain… you can add micro imprints within each ballot printed, so when scanned in , the ballot id will match the ID on the block, meaning the ballot isnt fake, and you can verify your data and your vote
Considering how rude and incompetent they are when you’re just trying to buy stamps or mail a package, I don’t want these people anywhere near my ballot!
Wait, wait, wait—this incompetence makes them the perfect vehicle for this. Really, the only thing this project needs is that it's the USPS brand, as in, "neither snow, nor hail..." Yup, they're that incompetent. But, you have to understand blockchain (I do, hang with me). Those people will never even touch your ballot. Once signed, a blockchain vote can be transmitted to the miners and no one can ever open it or modify it. And, with potentially a "quantum internet" in place (where the connection collapses the moment someone intercepts AND VIEWS the connection.
Yea I'm not sure what all the hate around Bitcoin and blockchain technology in general around here. It seems to be split, some people understand the applications and potential and others think it's a Deep State push... which it's the exact opposite of.
I've always been rooting for a blockchain centered election process, and like you said if we ever get to quantum computers it only gets better. If the central banks are Goliath.... David is Satoshi and Blockchain. Blockchain and btc literally return power to the people, which is the whole goal of this damned thing.
If it matters to you. Get off your ass and go to the precinct like a fucking adult.
If you're worried about a virus, strap on your n95, get off your ass, and go to the precinct like a fucking adult.
No exceptions other than for the (verifiable) infirm, and those who are away for school/work, who will need to submit the exact same documentation/ID that is required for in-person voting.
Why is this so fucking hard?
I'll tell you why.
The more they complicate it, the more fraud opportunities they create.
The USPS played a major role in the election fraud. Many of the USPS management and employees were willing participants in the fraud, including knowingly transporting truck loads of fraudulent ballots across state lines.
Why on Earth would anyone think that the USPS should be part of any solution for the future? The same corrupt officials should be in prison... not deciding how to better implement their fraud for the next election.
NO FEDERALIZATION of our elections. Paper ballots should be like money and tracked by a LOCAL Election board. If 5000 unique watermarked ballots are handed out for an election then 5000 should be returned AFTER the election and exactly match what was handed out.
How about paper ballots with a carbon copy receipt and unique ID so you can go in and ensure your vote was counted the way you recorded on your carbon copy?
If the Federal government is creating their own election system then you know it'll be designed for them to conduct fraud. I don't care if it's block chain or not. Feds can stay the fuck out of our elections and let the States design it.
The usps is so fucked. Another alphabet agency that needs cut. You could literally cut the government into 1/10th the size and it would operate just fine. Sorry for the rant i just hate big gov.
The USPS is just another gov't clusterfuck! I sent an earnest money check for real estate purchase via certified USPS mail. 2-day delivery mind you. Tried tracking. Got Supervisor involved. They did an "investigation". Nothing. Could not find my certified funds. 6 months later that damn check shows up at the realtor's office. 6 Months Later.
The Gov't can't run a 2-car funeral, let alone Voting, Your Healthcare, or anything else! Liberals want to take over running everything but can't do one fcking thing right! The Border, Afghanistan, The Budget, Social Security, Medicare...You Name it. They get the sheep and think they can drown us in Socialism. WE are NOT STUPID.
They already do illegal spying on Americans, they already helped steal the vote. Why not take over the vote? Saves them from having truckers get on the news and say "Ummm... I drove fake ballots across state lines and they wouldn't offload my truck"
There's a new attack on blockchain which I'm not sure has really permeated into the community yet in order to really begin to determine if it's really a threat or not, I personally haven't come to fully understand it yet, but it seems plausible.
The way it works is that blocks could be pooled and hashed and added to the chain in groups and because when different additions to the chain are verified the way the contest between competing additions to the chain is resolved is by taking the longer chain, if you could hash more than one block at a time and release several blocks at a time you've automatically got a longer chain and yours will be added to and will be the one to win.
This supposedly would facilitate a 51% attack somehow, that's the part I'm unsure of yet, but there's a mathematician (one who's collaborated with Nassim Taleb in the past so he's no slouch) who claims this could facilitate such an attack.
I'm bullish on BTC, I think it will replace the fiat system ultimately, but I'm not totally sure it's quite perfected yet. Also, I'm not sure how you'd incentivize anyone to run nodes and hash blocks when it comes to a voting system.
I have an idea, lets put the most convoluted, opaque, historically prone to fraud involvement, and overall ineffective federal government bureaucracy agency in charge of election integrity.
Then we see them deliver fake absentee ballots, ballots dumped in dumpsters, military ballots destroyed, and other FRAUD that should have everyone involved incarcerated for a good portion of their life
Maybe the "U.S." Postal service should envision doing their fucking jobs properly. Anyone send a certified mail letter that was actually signed for and not lost in the last 2 years? I work for a busy law office where lots of certified mail has to be sent; not only by me but by the courts to provide summons for new court cases (inform people they are being sued) and for subpoenas, etc. You'd be surprised how many of them, a year later, still say "in transit to the next facility" or some such bullshit. Or, you call them, and they will blatantly tell you it was probably dropped off without a signature. Certified mail. And they're not trying to give you your money back for NOT delivering on the thing you paid for, that's for sure. They suck so bad.
See this shit pisses me off. I work in a post office as a carrier and I can't explain how much time I spend signing for certified letters from the clerks(carriers sign for the letters first for record keeping) and then having to get out of my truck park it, turn the wheels, run up to the door, have someone not answer, spend time filling out a slip letting them know they have a certified letter waiting for them ar the post office and THIS WHOLE TIME NO ONE ELSE IS ACTUALLY DOING IT?! Damnit all the wasted hours of actually doing my job to discover I was the only one.
Then my hat is off to you - if you're a postal worker actually doing their job, then my nasty comments are in no way directed to you - I seriously wish there were more of you. It's incredibly frustrating from the consumer's end. But I would also say if you're doing the right thing, please don't stop. You're better than the vast majority of your colleagues.
I just wish I knew earlier it was apparently optional to have those signed ;)
Just toss it in the mailbox like a regular letter, that’s why my mail carrier does. And be absolutely sure not to scan it so it remains undelivered.
My mailman just signs my shit and tosses it in the mailbox anyways.
It gets delivered to the recommended address. It just gets signed by the carrier with a gps tracked scanner. Covid is the reason. Nobody can touch the scanner but the carrier.
There's a little green card on a certified mail letter that is signed by the recipient when you send it return receipt requested. This predates covid. I could show you a piece of certified mail I sent in 2017 that still says "In Transit to the Next Facility" on the tracking online. They just suck. AND they helped biden cheat in the election. Not sure why anyone would defend these incompetent assholes.
It’s not in defense. Infiltration. We know they played a role in the election. We’re getting to the bottom of it.
Your disdain for the postal service is funny.
It's well deserved and completely earned by them, I can assure you.
If you try to tell them your tax dollars pay their salaries, they'll be the first to tell you that they're not federally operated. But, since they got bailed out, our tax dollars DO in fact pay their salaries, so they can suck it.
Well the postal "service" IS gubment...
The top techno-geeks at the cyber symposium said repeatedly that if you use any off the shelf system, it can be hacked. They advocated dropping technology and going back to "Amish" voting.
THIS.
Registered voters.
Present ID.
Purple ink on finger.
Paper ballot.
Insert in box with armed guards monitoring 24/7.
There is no other way.
As a fellow developer, agree 100%. Especially your last sentence.
Block chain voting will be next to unhackable…. This is the way
Yep but not through the post office. Still needs to be in person.
Blockchain will make that irrelevant. Look up the identity stack
Sorry, I still don't trust this shit. Is anything really "unhackable"? I feel that paper ballots, in person, with a chain of custody is the most secure. But hell, I honestly wouldn't even trust that 100% anymore!
Chain of Custody is only improved with the implementation of Block Chain. That is exactly what Block Chain is best used for.
Blockchain removes the possibility of human error and or corruption, which is the only real problem with paper ballots and chain of custody.
The blockchain isn't something controlled by any one person, which is what he means by "next to unhackable". Below video I showed my dad a few months back that eased his mind about blockchain and btc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSo_EIwHSd4
Blockchain is really useful and important technology. I think there's a good reason nobody knows who Satoshi is (name credited to Bitcoin blockchain whitepaper), just like nobody knows who Q is. Blockchain very well could be one of the many stones David threw to slay Goliath.
Doesn't matter. Federal government has no authority to do it. It is up to each state.
Plus, you haven't learned that they always start out with a "good idea" but then change the rules later.
Not by mail though... Still vulnerable to harvesting, etc... There are plenty of hard up folks who sold their voice for gas cards, gift cards, cash and so-on...
False. Just plain false.
It will be way worse than now. Those with the most compute power will win.
I will concede that a quantum computer would be likely able to crack the encryption fairly easily of a block chain set up on a traditional system. Though… we dont know if Q computers are there yet to process the algorithms to crack a block chain… however, if systems are developed enough to hack using a quantum computer, then they are also capable enough to run a new type of block chain on… lets call it a quantum block chain. If block chains can be run using quantum computers, then i will go out on a limb and say it will be unhackable… but i digress
No, you idiot. He who has a larger number of computers can create the next valid block.
Who has control of the most computers?
Please read up on block chain
Already have.
No one has ever withstood my arguments against it.
Blockchain is not what you say it is.
Is it though?
If a centralized agency (i.e. NSA) is capable of monitoring devices globally, is it so much of a stretch to imagine such an agency modifying individual blocks in the ledger, illicitly on all devices that contain the ledger, assuming they’re capable of manipulating the hash? I’ll admit, manipulating the hash would probably be the hardest part but I certainly wouldn’t consider it impossible.
Can someone enlighten me?
You are correct which is why i said almost impossible. I would never claim anything as 100% unhackable… but first you would need to find all the servers the vote block chain is on… and if you get this far undetected, you would then need to hack more than 50% of the servers to manipulate the data in a way the block chain thinks the corrupt data is the correct/majority data
Okay fair enough. And I’m not trying to call you out or anything, just genuinely curious.
I see these sort of bad faith players like USPS advocating for this sort of thing and I can’t help but wonder if the goal is to build faith under the pretense of “unhackable” only to use that as cover to hack it. I mean, this go around, they only had to say it was the most secure election ever without even having a basis for saying so.
The key, is that the system has to be truly decentralized… because if is controlled only by one entity, then it will always be at risk to potential bad actors…
I agree and that’s sort of what I mean. I don’t consider it decentralized if a singular entity has access and potential control over the entire ledger or at least a majority. That’s hypothetical of course.
Laymans terms, Blockchain works like this. Think of a chain link. One link is attached to the next which is attached to the next, and so on and so forth. Now assume one link is data, your vote. The chain link (block), your data, has a unique Hash number that is its identification as well as information stored within that block (heavily encrypted). There is also a hash signature appended on to your hash from the block before yours and the one after… making up your unique hash number. Say your black hash is 52…. The block before yours is A2, and the one after yours would be 7B That makes your unique number A2 52 7B If someone would remove your data and place it else where the hash’s wont allign and the system will know there is an issue. Better yet, block chain is also decentralized, meaning it is not on one network or system… and they are always in constant communication with each other. So if someone hacks a server and deletes out data the rest of the systems/servers that have the data automatically recognize something is missing and will auto correct the corrupted/missing data… The only way you can actually successfully hack Blockchain is that you need to hack the majority of the servers simultaneously and delete more than 50% of the data. In doing this majority of the servers would hold the missing data and therefore the overall system would think that is the correct information. If you cannot attack more than 50% of the data simultaneously ,it will always revert back to the correct data. This is how Blockchain is almost un hackable
This is why it will never work.
Those with the most compute power win.
nah search up hedera hashgraph
Thats the thing, random people cant just randomly add what they feel on the block chain… you can add micro imprints within each ballot printed, so when scanned in , the ballot id will match the ID on the block, meaning the ballot isnt fake, and you can verify your data and your vote
Considering how rude and incompetent they are when you’re just trying to buy stamps or mail a package, I don’t want these people anywhere near my ballot!
Wait, wait, wait—this incompetence makes them the perfect vehicle for this. Really, the only thing this project needs is that it's the USPS brand, as in, "neither snow, nor hail..." Yup, they're that incompetent. But, you have to understand blockchain (I do, hang with me). Those people will never even touch your ballot. Once signed, a blockchain vote can be transmitted to the miners and no one can ever open it or modify it. And, with potentially a "quantum internet" in place (where the connection collapses the moment someone intercepts AND VIEWS the connection.
This is a brilliant scheme
Yea I'm not sure what all the hate around Bitcoin and blockchain technology in general around here. It seems to be split, some people understand the applications and potential and others think it's a Deep State push... which it's the exact opposite of.
I've always been rooting for a blockchain centered election process, and like you said if we ever get to quantum computers it only gets better. If the central banks are Goliath.... David is Satoshi and Blockchain. Blockchain and btc literally return power to the people, which is the whole goal of this damned thing.
Yup, you get it.
Weren't they caught in cahoots, spying on citizens via social media? All whilst being a complete drain on taxpayer money?
The US Postal Inspectors were spying.
https://ifex.org/eff-sues-u-s-postal-service-for-records-about-covert-social-media-spying-program/
US postal service needs to envision delivering the mail accurately and in a timely manner
Can’t.
The folks that can't do their own jobs are now instructing others. Makes sense.
Old news.
this concept was patented by USPS 8-9 months before 2020 election
IN PERSON VOTING
If it matters to you. Get off your ass and go to the precinct like a fucking adult.
If you're worried about a virus, strap on your n95, get off your ass, and go to the precinct like a fucking adult.
No exceptions other than for the (verifiable) infirm, and those who are away for school/work, who will need to submit the exact same documentation/ID that is required for in-person voting.
Why is this so fucking hard?
I'll tell you why.
The more they complicate it, the more fraud opportunities they create.
Honestly, we should all show up fully armed in the town square. If you want A, stand over there, and B goes over there.
If anyone is unhappy with the result, they can start shooting.
After everything settles, there will be no more discontent.
The USPS played a major role in the election fraud. Many of the USPS management and employees were willing participants in the fraud, including knowingly transporting truck loads of fraudulent ballots across state lines.
Why on Earth would anyone think that the USPS should be part of any solution for the future? The same corrupt officials should be in prison... not deciding how to better implement their fraud for the next election.
NO FEDERALIZATION of our elections. Paper ballots should be like money and tracked by a LOCAL Election board. If 5000 unique watermarked ballots are handed out for an election then 5000 should be returned AFTER the election and exactly match what was handed out.
Monitor elections in your own community.
This is the way.
So they can dump those ballots in the trash too?
Huh...... blockchain voting..... future elections safeguarded....
Where have I heard this before?
🤔🤔🧐🧐
Here’s the actual patent for it: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200258338A1/en
https://greatawakening.win/p/12j0VpMYR1/sodoes-all-this-talk-about-block/c/
How about paper ballots with a carbon copy receipt and unique ID so you can go in and ensure your vote was counted the way you recorded on your carbon copy?
hedera hashgraph
If the Federal government is creating their own election system then you know it'll be designed for them to conduct fraud. I don't care if it's block chain or not. Feds can stay the fuck out of our elections and let the States design it.
Where people are involved. They'll find a way to cheat.
The usps is so fucked. Another alphabet agency that needs cut. You could literally cut the government into 1/10th the size and it would operate just fine. Sorry for the rant i just hate big gov.
The USPS is just another gov't clusterfuck! I sent an earnest money check for real estate purchase via certified USPS mail. 2-day delivery mind you. Tried tracking. Got Supervisor involved. They did an "investigation". Nothing. Could not find my certified funds. 6 months later that damn check shows up at the realtor's office. 6 Months Later.
The Gov't can't run a 2-car funeral, let alone Voting, Your Healthcare, or anything else! Liberals want to take over running everything but can't do one fcking thing right! The Border, Afghanistan, The Budget, Social Security, Medicare...You Name it. They get the sheep and think they can drown us in Socialism. WE are NOT STUPID.
They already do illegal spying on Americans, they already helped steal the vote. Why not take over the vote? Saves them from having truckers get on the news and say "Ummm... I drove fake ballots across state lines and they wouldn't offload my truck"
FUCK THE USPS.
There's a new attack on blockchain which I'm not sure has really permeated into the community yet in order to really begin to determine if it's really a threat or not, I personally haven't come to fully understand it yet, but it seems plausible.
The way it works is that blocks could be pooled and hashed and added to the chain in groups and because when different additions to the chain are verified the way the contest between competing additions to the chain is resolved is by taking the longer chain, if you could hash more than one block at a time and release several blocks at a time you've automatically got a longer chain and yours will be added to and will be the one to win.
This supposedly would facilitate a 51% attack somehow, that's the part I'm unsure of yet, but there's a mathematician (one who's collaborated with Nassim Taleb in the past so he's no slouch) who claims this could facilitate such an attack.
I'm bullish on BTC, I think it will replace the fiat system ultimately, but I'm not totally sure it's quite perfected yet. Also, I'm not sure how you'd incentivize anyone to run nodes and hash blocks when it comes to a voting system.
I have an idea, lets put the most convoluted, opaque, historically prone to fraud involvement, and overall ineffective federal government bureaucracy agency in charge of election integrity.
Federal government, via its agencies, has no authority to meddle in any election, even for official dog catcher.
Stupid Post Office needs to stop spying on us and just deliver the mail!
I envision...NO
Post Office Union officially backed Biden
Then we see them deliver fake absentee ballots, ballots dumped in dumpsters, military ballots destroyed, and other FRAUD that should have everyone involved incarcerated for a good portion of their life
They are part of the cancer our country has
NO.