There’s nothing wrong with the public school model. There’s something wrong with what the teachers have been given license to teach. We should have total control over that, no question. But ending public school is a shit idea. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Public education is a staple of superior western societies. It was Rockefeller redesigning them to be propaganda machines for mindless worker bees with no critical thinking instruction that’s the problem. Whether my kids attend public school or not I don’t want to live in a country without a public education system. Poor kids are ignorant and violent enough. I don’t want them priced out of school.
Rational response. Public school as an entity isn't the primary problem; it's the activists invading every facet of education that is. It's happening in many private schools too.
They can actually push harder and pass bills requiring a specific curriculum for home schoolers too, or prevent you from home schooling entirely.
It is important to combat this with focus and tact, rather than being emotionally driven and just lobbing grenades blindly.
I remember having teachers even into the 2000s that were veterans. Intelligent, passionate, experienced, and fought in Nam. Very fun individuals, and knew their subjects to boot.
I agree with this. Homeschooling simply cannot work for every single family and child. I'm a public school teacher and I know how bad it is right now, but there are still some good, conservative teachers in the US. The problem lies within the American university system. They are the ones pumping out Marxist graduates who know how to spread an agenda effectively but have no concept of rational thought and debate. They are the ones training this new generation of worthless, emotional, incompetent teachers and administrators. Good teachers are fleeing the profession in droves as this continues to get worse. I pray that Trump's return to office will include a complete overhaul of the American university and public school system, including the dismantling of the DOE.
As a Christian, I don’t care much for pledges. I love my country and I thank God for it often. But my heart and my pledge goes to my creator, and my savior Jesus Christ. People don’t have to like it. They just have to deal with it.
Not required, but expected. And when you don’t..butthurt is what they become. I kinda fake it now. I’ll hold my hand over my heart and thank God for everything and anything I can think of till the “pledge” is over. I do mention I love this country tho. Just don’t put faith in much of anything in it.
In VBS we used to pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and the Bible along with the American flag...
"I pledge Allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it stands, one brotherhood, uniting all Christians in service and in love. I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word. A lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, its words will I hide in my heart, that I might not sin against God."
The early Christians were socialist, they pooled their money and food....
And when I say early I mean when Jesus was with them.
Modern forced socialism is nothing like that. If the man who wrote the pledge was thinking of the socialism of the gospel, I have no problem with that. Words mean different things to different people and at different times.
The key difference is that one is voluntary and from the heart, and the other isn't.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose the view people have of the pledge is something like an exercise in patriotism, although there is an argument for it being little more than dogmatic repetition...
I wonder if, instead, the pledge was a voluntary act committed by parents before sending their children off to school if it would be more useful. It could lead to curiousity on the part of children and the parents could explain why they make a point of saying the pledge everyday, thus teaching their kids and learning themselves along the way as their children inevitably ask them questions which they will have to research to give their kids answers...
Clicked on this thread and wrongly assumed that Americans would be like yeh this is great super patriotic let's show the damn commies, U-S-A etc. How wrong I was but in a good way.
Brainwashing kids even in patriotism is just wrong. Nobody should spend their childhood being force-trained in groupthink.
I have read through this entire post and took your advice to look up the history of the pledge. Although Bellamy, a Christian socialist minister, contributed to some of the wording of the pledge, his original pledge is not the finished product. So while you have a valid point, I am not sure I would consider that the pledge is a socialist, commie construct that does not possess any validity...it is important to know the history of things...but our history has been rewritten so frequently who knows what is really true...
I don't know what state you live in nor do I know what era you grew up in but in the 1960's we all said the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance before beginning class. I heard no complaints about it until the Atheist woman took it out of the classroom. And our country has went downhill ever since.
Not a fucking chance. I’ll fight Christian supremacy and indoctrination as much as any other religion. And I’m a Christian. Fuck fascists of any religious persuasion. Believe what you want. If you want your it’s doing the Lord’s prayer, fork out the money and send them to a private school that does that. Public school isn’t the place for that.
Only the Lord's Prayer. An Atheist woman had it taken out of our school systems and the United States has been going downhill ever since. A little religion for those kids whose parents may not go or send them to church NEVER HURT anyone. And the Muslims should abide by our rules; not theirs. When they become citizens of our country they're supposed to consort to our rules, our language and our laws. That goes for all other countries whose people come over. When it's prayer time, they can simply 'shut up' and keep their mouths shut. Who knows, they may conform to our ways. God bless.
Correct. Some people here scare me. They’re as bad as liberals. Claim they want freedom and then say shit like this. Are we freedom loving Americans or not? Private school is an option for those too lazy to pray with their kids at home or take them to church on Sunday. If you want to preach your religion, do it elsewhere.
I AM NOT A FASCIST. I grew up in the 1960's and we said this every morning until that Atheist woman took it out of school. Those were the good days when our world wasn't DARK as it is now. Not only did they take 'prayer' out of school, but they took it out of our Nation as well. NOW WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE.
Yes, but they also had teachers hit children when you were in school.
Thank God we don't have liberals hitting our kids.
If we have prayers in public schools, then the Muslim children will also have to pull out their rugs and pray at every moment their religion commands. It's a slippery slope.
Then what happens when alternate religions show up and make demands? Like Wiccans or Satanists?
And how many Christians say their prayers and are complete fucking assholes when they get out of church?
I know we all want a sense of "normal", but some of that "normal" was used to indoctrinate us into their system as well. Theres nowhere in the Bible that says its mandatory to pray in school.
And I can say this as a Christian who pledged to the US flag, the Bible, and the Christian Flag everyday. I'm proud of what I did. I also went to private Christian school.
Just so ya know before I left NY state in 2015 they already had prayer rooms for Muslim students to use during the school day. No Christian group was allowed to use the school for any reason even after school was over. Christmas celebrations, decorations and music were removed from the schools back in the 1990s.
This is how it always is...persecute the Christians/Christianity...and every other religion is promoted and gets a free pass...so the separation of church and state ONLY applies to Christianity.
The government cannot force a specific religion but they also cannot compel Christians to abandon their beliefs when they are in a political arena since faith influences political beliefs...this was how the founding fathers viewed politics and religion...
This is the flaw in separation of church and state...there has to be some basic accepted moral code of behavior in every civilized society. The Ten Commandments used to be foundational until they were thrown out with separation of church and state...which is why we are in the mess we are in today.
I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt who said that when they come into our country and become citizens they must consort to our ways, our language and our laws. If they want to practice their religion, they can simply bow out, sit down and 'shut up' or go outside to the hallway until we are finished. They can go out there and worship Allah or whoever while we're simply saying our Lords Prayer. God bless.
Nah fuck that. No official religious prayers of any kind at school. Nobody should be kept from praying in a non disruptive way but nobody should be forced to participate or feel pressured to participate out if fear of being ostracized. You want your kids to pray and recite the pledge, do it with them in the morning before they go to school. You know, like a parent. Not hard.
Our country was (at one time) based on Freedom of Religion; that being Christianity but other religions as well when others entered our country. NOW it seems as if OUR Religion of Christianity has taken a 'backseat' to others. We have bowed down and stepped aside to appease other religions for fear of NOT HURTING THEIR FEELINGS. That is not what freedom of religion is about. So now businesses do not allow 'Bell Ringers' at Christmas due to hurting the Muslim Faith (TARGET), Taking down the Ten Commandments in Public Buildings, giving a Moment of Silence in schools for some kids (especially kindergarten and first graders) who have no idea what the 'silence' is for.
God granted us 'free will' to choose. But (IF) a child becoming an adult has 'never' heard the WORD from anywhere, how are they to choose? That's why I said 'a little religion meaning the hearing of God's word never hurt anyone' so that these children can figure it out for themselves. NO ONE MENTIONED a pork chop. But I'm sure if they smelled one cooking and the temptation struck them to try one, they would sneak and eat it basically for the 'free will' to find out for themselves.
Now it is no longer okay to say the Lords Prayer in school which is said in a minute or less; but it is okay for a SATANIC WORSHIP CLUB after school. It's okay though, it's all a part of our Freedom of Religion. I suppose you'd much rather love your children to attend those. Our country was based on Christianity and as Patriots; I thought that was another reason for our fight. That's what President Trump said to do. PRAY. PRAY for the saving of our Country. Mike Flynn said to pray as well as Linn Wood, Steve Bannon and others. But I suppose you have a different idea of going about it. It's okay if you decide to leave GOD out of the Equation. We'll watch the world sink even faster than it already is. That's what it sounds like you'd rather prefer. Teach a child the way to go and he will not forsake it.
I do have my qualms about things and Pronouns IS NOT one of them neither is baking a cake for someone GAY. Those are against my Christian faith also. But I evidently grew up in a different era than you, as you seem to have the belief that it's okay to start the day off without God in a childs school life. Times were a 'little bit' simpler then. Oh how I wish I could bring those days back. This is my final rebuttal. I have my opinions and you have yours. We both have that RIGHT which I am not trying to take away from you so don't try to put any more words into my mouth. I do pray that God blesses you and that you have a great day. Until then, I enjoyed our debate.
If they want to practice their religion, they can simply bow out, sit down and 'shut up' or go outside to the hallway until we are finished.
I will fight you to the death on this one. Separation of church and state means just this. Allowing a mandatory religious practice for one religion, and not the others will lead to the Cabal infiltrating the mandatory religion. They do this in every country.
Now you can't argue that Christianity hasn't been infiltrated over the centuries, especially in our time. That's how we got here.
Taking the prayer (of all religions) out of school doesn't take the zealousness away from the religious folk. The Cabal takes advantage of this. We saw an example in modern day when the lefties turned from 1st Amendment loving hippies to speech censoring fascists. The zealous, 1st Amendment hating aspects of the religious right became the aspects of the left.
So what do you get if you put prayer back into school? They're still zealous, but now they pray to God. You still cant control them, and they can still be activated as sleeper cells with the right propaganda.
It only makes it easier for the enemy to infiltrate through public institutions. You and I both know thats bad.
I read just the other day that there "REALLY" NEVER was a separation of Church and State. So fight on. If you want the world to remain in a dark area, that's up to you; but sometimes children never hear the word of God unless they hear it at school with the Lord's Prayer. Imagine the children of these 'nitwits' hearing it for the first time; it could change the world for the better. A little religion NEVER hurt anyone.
I do so 'pray' that I could find that again. It wasn't something I was researching but rather something I ran upon by accident. I wish I had saved it. It said something like, " In God we Trust" (church) on our money (state) along with The Ten Commandments (church) displayed in our courthouses (state) at one time they were; and many other 'technical' displays of why there really was no separation. That's the only thing I can remember.
Why do they need a bill? I retired from working at a public elementary school in Southern California - EVERY morning we played the National Anthem over the PA system and that was followed by the Pledge of allegiance in each and every class! THIS is California, no bill was necessary! While the music was playing over the PA, parents stopped, men removed their hats. It was the one and only thing I respected about the operations of our school and again, even I am shocked to say, this is in California! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I grew up with it and it never harmed my thinking, nor that of my cohort. The idea that it was an excuse for anti-patriotism is sheer supposition. As for its meaning, Red Skelton said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnXcw6euIE
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
But I think this is equally to brainwashing as well. Instilling loyalty tot he state, while kids have no idea about the real history, and the real choices they have to make, it is wrong to entice children to utter pledges of allegiance.
First of all, The current STATE is a corporate entity void of authorization to receive pledges of allegiance.
Second, pledging allegiance to ideals is something else. The State is merely a vehicle to express these ideals.
Third: the one entity everybody is bound to with fealty is yourself and, if you are inclined to belief so, God. The STATE requires actions in contravention to those ideals and personal integrity.
Fourth: what are the ideals? The Declaration of Independence makes it quite clear. So does the bill of Rights.
Lincoln was wrong when he said that it is all about the men perverting the Constitution and ousting them. It is about a system that does not work. See Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
In other words: the People are the absolute sovereigns. Therefor, pledging allegiance to a STATE (which is a frozen in time relationship) is not envisioned from the get go. Hence, the creation of the Articles of Confederation.
It was the debt that needed a different relationship, and hence, the Constitution was setup, thus creating a Federal Government based on different principles.
And amendments were added.
fifth: all these tradition are post civil war, meant to galvanize the Union, and eradicate any thought of armed resistance.
Sixth: The Washington Farewell Address clearly lays out the pure form of patriotism, nationalism, love of country, etc. It has to do with virtue moving from the inside to the outside world. Not some superficial brainwashing steeped in postal traditions.
So, as a temp remedy, to turn the ship around, it may have benefits. But I kind of like of like the idea of a rite of passage.
While I do think the Pledge of Allegiance is good when voluntary and said in reference to the nation and what little legitimate government it has, forcing kids to say this will cause them to rebel against the country and the cycle continues. If a student RESPECTFULLY opts out then you're better off trying to show them they're wrong than punishing them.
Nah, forget compelled speech! Freedom of Speech means we can also protest the flag/pledge if anyone so deems, for any whimsical reason why, and I will stand by their right to do so. That is why we are America. Freedom of Speech means we have to put up with crap we don't like, as well as, they have to put up with crap they don't like. No compelled speech ever!
How 'bout shut down the schools and do home schooling and home school co-ops. Then parents decide exactly what happens, not governments.
This is just another stupid bill for nothing.
Do something that defunds woke public schools or allow me to not pay school tax for homeschooling my kids.
There’s nothing wrong with the public school model. There’s something wrong with what the teachers have been given license to teach. We should have total control over that, no question. But ending public school is a shit idea. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Public education is a staple of superior western societies. It was Rockefeller redesigning them to be propaganda machines for mindless worker bees with no critical thinking instruction that’s the problem. Whether my kids attend public school or not I don’t want to live in a country without a public education system. Poor kids are ignorant and violent enough. I don’t want them priced out of school.
Rational response. Public school as an entity isn't the primary problem; it's the activists invading every facet of education that is. It's happening in many private schools too.
They can actually push harder and pass bills requiring a specific curriculum for home schoolers too, or prevent you from home schooling entirely.
It is important to combat this with focus and tact, rather than being emotionally driven and just lobbing grenades blindly.
Agreed.
I remember having teachers even into the 2000s that were veterans. Intelligent, passionate, experienced, and fought in Nam. Very fun individuals, and knew their subjects to boot.
I agree with this. Homeschooling simply cannot work for every single family and child. I'm a public school teacher and I know how bad it is right now, but there are still some good, conservative teachers in the US. The problem lies within the American university system. They are the ones pumping out Marxist graduates who know how to spread an agenda effectively but have no concept of rational thought and debate. They are the ones training this new generation of worthless, emotional, incompetent teachers and administrators. Good teachers are fleeing the profession in droves as this continues to get worse. I pray that Trump's return to office will include a complete overhaul of the American university and public school system, including the dismantling of the DOE.
Everything needs to be gone through including the entire educational system. I agree it is needed, but needs to be fixed.
Wisest words on this thread.
We have enough compelled speech rules with the pronoun trannies.
As a Christian, I don’t care much for pledges. I love my country and I thank God for it often. But my heart and my pledge goes to my creator, and my savior Jesus Christ. People don’t have to like it. They just have to deal with it.
Not required, but expected. And when you don’t..butthurt is what they become. I kinda fake it now. I’ll hold my hand over my heart and thank God for everything and anything I can think of till the “pledge” is over. I do mention I love this country tho. Just don’t put faith in much of anything in it.
In VBS we used to pledge allegiance to the Christian flag and the Bible along with the American flag...
"I pledge Allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it stands, one brotherhood, uniting all Christians in service and in love. I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's Holy Word. A lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, its words will I hide in my heart, that I might not sin against God."
^ This.
Maybe so, but it now pisses off commies.
They hate any mention of God.
That phrase wasn't added until 1954.
https://www.history.com/news/pledge-allegiance-under-god-schools
Shit in their bowl.
Not your own.
That would be silly.
They shat in your bowl over 100 years and now you're defending it.
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2017/07/07/the-pledge-of-allegiance-was-actually-written-by-a-socialist/
The early Christians were socialist, they pooled their money and food....
And when I say early I mean when Jesus was with them.
Modern forced socialism is nothing like that. If the man who wrote the pledge was thinking of the socialism of the gospel, I have no problem with that. Words mean different things to different people and at different times.
The key difference is that one is voluntary and from the heart, and the other isn't.
I'm not a socalist,but if you knocked on my door starving I would feed you.
That's the very basics of chistanity.
What is voluntary about a mandatory pledge?
Socialism not pledge.
I said the pledge myself every school day for 7 years or more. Things really went to hell, after we quit using it.
I'm now leaning strongly to require it again.
I saw the FUD about the pledge posted here awhile ago.
It just looked silly.
I've fought many epic battles with commies, I prefer not to dox myself by going into details.
If thats Allright with you?
I pick my battles and I research what I consider important.
This looks like a distraction to me.
What a terrible argument, there’s a logical fallacy in there somewhere
You made plenty of sense.
Old country wisdom:
I'm curious. Besides being made by a communist, what exactly is objectionable about the pledge?
A vain repetition chant should not be a legal requirement for school children.
I hadn't thought about it that way. I suppose the view people have of the pledge is something like an exercise in patriotism, although there is an argument for it being little more than dogmatic repetition...
I wonder if, instead, the pledge was a voluntary act committed by parents before sending their children off to school if it would be more useful. It could lead to curiousity on the part of children and the parents could explain why they make a point of saying the pledge everyday, thus teaching their kids and learning themselves along the way as their children inevitably ask them questions which they will have to research to give their kids answers...
I can see that interpretation. I can also see an allusion to an impenetrable unity, along the lines of the four oxen and the lion.
Clicked on this thread and wrongly assumed that Americans would be like yeh this is great super patriotic let's show the damn commies, U-S-A etc. How wrong I was but in a good way.
Brainwashing kids even in patriotism is just wrong. Nobody should spend their childhood being force-trained in groupthink.
I have read through this entire post and took your advice to look up the history of the pledge. Although Bellamy, a Christian socialist minister, contributed to some of the wording of the pledge, his original pledge is not the finished product. So while you have a valid point, I am not sure I would consider that the pledge is a socialist, commie construct that does not possess any validity...it is important to know the history of things...but our history has been rewritten so frequently who knows what is really true...
https://www.history.com/news/who-created-the-pledge-of-allegiance
What about the Lord's Prayer? We used to say it when I was in elementary school.
Lol what elementary school was this? I would never be ok with that. No religion should be pushed at school. Including my own.
I don't know what state you live in nor do I know what era you grew up in but in the 1960's we all said the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance before beginning class. I heard no complaints about it until the Atheist woman took it out of the classroom. And our country has went downhill ever since.
That would really be the best! M A G A - MAKE AMRICA GODLY AGAIN!
Yes. I even heard a preacher on television say the same thing.
Not a fucking chance. I’ll fight Christian supremacy and indoctrination as much as any other religion. And I’m a Christian. Fuck fascists of any religious persuasion. Believe what you want. If you want your it’s doing the Lord’s prayer, fork out the money and send them to a private school that does that. Public school isn’t the place for that.
Only the Lord's Prayer. An Atheist woman had it taken out of our school systems and the United States has been going downhill ever since. A little religion for those kids whose parents may not go or send them to church NEVER HURT anyone. And the Muslims should abide by our rules; not theirs. When they become citizens of our country they're supposed to consort to our rules, our language and our laws. That goes for all other countries whose people come over. When it's prayer time, they can simply 'shut up' and keep their mouths shut. Who knows, they may conform to our ways. God bless.
Correct. Some people here scare me. They’re as bad as liberals. Claim they want freedom and then say shit like this. Are we freedom loving Americans or not? Private school is an option for those too lazy to pray with their kids at home or take them to church on Sunday. If you want to preach your religion, do it elsewhere.
I AM NOT A FASCIST. I grew up in the 1960's and we said this every morning until that Atheist woman took it out of school. Those were the good days when our world wasn't DARK as it is now. Not only did they take 'prayer' out of school, but they took it out of our Nation as well. NOW WE ARE PAYING THE PRICE.
Yes, but they also had teachers hit children when you were in school.
Thank God we don't have liberals hitting our kids.
If we have prayers in public schools, then the Muslim children will also have to pull out their rugs and pray at every moment their religion commands. It's a slippery slope.
Then what happens when alternate religions show up and make demands? Like Wiccans or Satanists?
And how many Christians say their prayers and are complete fucking assholes when they get out of church?
I know we all want a sense of "normal", but some of that "normal" was used to indoctrinate us into their system as well. Theres nowhere in the Bible that says its mandatory to pray in school.
And I can say this as a Christian who pledged to the US flag, the Bible, and the Christian Flag everyday. I'm proud of what I did. I also went to private Christian school.
Just so ya know before I left NY state in 2015 they already had prayer rooms for Muslim students to use during the school day. No Christian group was allowed to use the school for any reason even after school was over. Christmas celebrations, decorations and music were removed from the schools back in the 1990s.
That’s no reason to respond in kind. End the madness don’t add to it.
Thats why we either take all of it, or none of it.
"None of it" is easier and it costs less money.
This is how it always is...persecute the Christians/Christianity...and every other religion is promoted and gets a free pass...so the separation of church and state ONLY applies to Christianity.
The government cannot force a specific religion but they also cannot compel Christians to abandon their beliefs when they are in a political arena since faith influences political beliefs...this was how the founding fathers viewed politics and religion...
This is the flaw in separation of church and state...there has to be some basic accepted moral code of behavior in every civilized society. The Ten Commandments used to be foundational until they were thrown out with separation of church and state...which is why we are in the mess we are in today.
I believe it was Teddy Roosevelt who said that when they come into our country and become citizens they must consort to our ways, our language and our laws. If they want to practice their religion, they can simply bow out, sit down and 'shut up' or go outside to the hallway until we are finished. They can go out there and worship Allah or whoever while we're simply saying our Lords Prayer. God bless.
Nah fuck that. No official religious prayers of any kind at school. Nobody should be kept from praying in a non disruptive way but nobody should be forced to participate or feel pressured to participate out if fear of being ostracized. You want your kids to pray and recite the pledge, do it with them in the morning before they go to school. You know, like a parent. Not hard.
Sometimes kids never KNOW who God is because of parents who are non-believers or who do not attend church. ONE PRAYER doesn't hurt anyone.
Our country was (at one time) based on Freedom of Religion; that being Christianity but other religions as well when others entered our country. NOW it seems as if OUR Religion of Christianity has taken a 'backseat' to others. We have bowed down and stepped aside to appease other religions for fear of NOT HURTING THEIR FEELINGS. That is not what freedom of religion is about. So now businesses do not allow 'Bell Ringers' at Christmas due to hurting the Muslim Faith (TARGET), Taking down the Ten Commandments in Public Buildings, giving a Moment of Silence in schools for some kids (especially kindergarten and first graders) who have no idea what the 'silence' is for.
God granted us 'free will' to choose. But (IF) a child becoming an adult has 'never' heard the WORD from anywhere, how are they to choose? That's why I said 'a little religion meaning the hearing of God's word never hurt anyone' so that these children can figure it out for themselves. NO ONE MENTIONED a pork chop. But I'm sure if they smelled one cooking and the temptation struck them to try one, they would sneak and eat it basically for the 'free will' to find out for themselves.
Now it is no longer okay to say the Lords Prayer in school which is said in a minute or less; but it is okay for a SATANIC WORSHIP CLUB after school. It's okay though, it's all a part of our Freedom of Religion. I suppose you'd much rather love your children to attend those. Our country was based on Christianity and as Patriots; I thought that was another reason for our fight. That's what President Trump said to do. PRAY. PRAY for the saving of our Country. Mike Flynn said to pray as well as Linn Wood, Steve Bannon and others. But I suppose you have a different idea of going about it. It's okay if you decide to leave GOD out of the Equation. We'll watch the world sink even faster than it already is. That's what it sounds like you'd rather prefer. Teach a child the way to go and he will not forsake it.
I do have my qualms about things and Pronouns IS NOT one of them neither is baking a cake for someone GAY. Those are against my Christian faith also. But I evidently grew up in a different era than you, as you seem to have the belief that it's okay to start the day off without God in a childs school life. Times were a 'little bit' simpler then. Oh how I wish I could bring those days back. This is my final rebuttal. I have my opinions and you have yours. We both have that RIGHT which I am not trying to take away from you so don't try to put any more words into my mouth. I do pray that God blesses you and that you have a great day. Until then, I enjoyed our debate.
Teddy Roosevelt was also a freemason.
I will fight you to the death on this one. Separation of church and state means just this. Allowing a mandatory religious practice for one religion, and not the others will lead to the Cabal infiltrating the mandatory religion. They do this in every country.
Now you can't argue that Christianity hasn't been infiltrated over the centuries, especially in our time. That's how we got here.
Taking the prayer (of all religions) out of school doesn't take the zealousness away from the religious folk. The Cabal takes advantage of this. We saw an example in modern day when the lefties turned from 1st Amendment loving hippies to speech censoring fascists. The zealous, 1st Amendment hating aspects of the religious right became the aspects of the left.
So what do you get if you put prayer back into school? They're still zealous, but now they pray to God. You still cant control them, and they can still be activated as sleeper cells with the right propaganda.
It only makes it easier for the enemy to infiltrate through public institutions. You and I both know thats bad.
I read just the other day that there "REALLY" NEVER was a separation of Church and State. So fight on. If you want the world to remain in a dark area, that's up to you; but sometimes children never hear the word of God unless they hear it at school with the Lord's Prayer. Imagine the children of these 'nitwits' hearing it for the first time; it could change the world for the better. A little religion NEVER hurt anyone.
That's what they said during the Spanish Inquisition.
Sauce?
I do so 'pray' that I could find that again. It wasn't something I was researching but rather something I ran upon by accident. I wish I had saved it. It said something like, " In God we Trust" (church) on our money (state) along with The Ten Commandments (church) displayed in our courthouses (state) at one time they were; and many other 'technical' displays of why there really was no separation. That's the only thing I can remember.
Not sure that will hold up in court. I like the pledge but I don’t like forced speech, no matter what the speech may be.
Hard to believe they actually have to pass a law for this.
Why do they need a bill? I retired from working at a public elementary school in Southern California - EVERY morning we played the National Anthem over the PA system and that was followed by the Pledge of allegiance in each and every class! THIS is California, no bill was necessary! While the music was playing over the PA, parents stopped, men removed their hats. It was the one and only thing I respected about the operations of our school and again, even I am shocked to say, this is in California! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It was that way in Wva too. The Nat'l Anthem, the Pledge of Allegiance and the reading of the day's lunch menu (by the Principal over the PA system).
Excellent.
I grew up with it and it never harmed my thinking, nor that of my cohort. The idea that it was an excuse for anti-patriotism is sheer supposition. As for its meaning, Red Skelton said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnXcw6euIE
Absolutely...loved Red Skelton...
https://www.history.com/news/who-created-the-pledge-of-allegiance
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
https://www.history.com/news/who-created-the-pledge-of-allegiance
As a countermove, I think it is quite good.
But I think this is equally to brainwashing as well. Instilling loyalty tot he state, while kids have no idea about the real history, and the real choices they have to make, it is wrong to entice children to utter pledges of allegiance.
First of all, The current STATE is a corporate entity void of authorization to receive pledges of allegiance.
Second, pledging allegiance to ideals is something else. The State is merely a vehicle to express these ideals.
Third: the one entity everybody is bound to with fealty is yourself and, if you are inclined to belief so, God. The STATE requires actions in contravention to those ideals and personal integrity.
Fourth: what are the ideals? The Declaration of Independence makes it quite clear. So does the bill of Rights.
Lincoln was wrong when he said that it is all about the men perverting the Constitution and ousting them. It is about a system that does not work. See Declaration of Independence:
In other words: the People are the absolute sovereigns. Therefor, pledging allegiance to a STATE (which is a frozen in time relationship) is not envisioned from the get go. Hence, the creation of the Articles of Confederation.
It was the debt that needed a different relationship, and hence, the Constitution was setup, thus creating a Federal Government based on different principles.
And amendments were added.
fifth: all these tradition are post civil war, meant to galvanize the Union, and eradicate any thought of armed resistance.
Sixth: The Washington Farewell Address clearly lays out the pure form of patriotism, nationalism, love of country, etc. It has to do with virtue moving from the inside to the outside world. Not some superficial brainwashing steeped in postal traditions.
So, as a temp remedy, to turn the ship around, it may have benefits. But I kind of like of like the idea of a rite of passage.
While I do think the Pledge of Allegiance is good when voluntary and said in reference to the nation and what little legitimate government it has, forcing kids to say this will cause them to rebel against the country and the cycle continues. If a student RESPECTFULLY opts out then you're better off trying to show them they're wrong than punishing them.
way to go Iowa!
It’s like a pesticide to make woke teachers so nauseous they leave the kids and the school alone
Wow. That's amazing. Moving in the right direction.
Nah, forget compelled speech! Freedom of Speech means we can also protest the flag/pledge if anyone so deems, for any whimsical reason why, and I will stand by their right to do so. That is why we are America. Freedom of Speech means we have to put up with crap we don't like, as well as, they have to put up with crap they don't like. No compelled speech ever!
https://twitter.com/Lisahudsonchow7/status/1672809905550688256
Cool, now band flag burning like Trump wanted, and make it a federal offense.
Do today's students even know the Pledge of Allegiance?
This should be a law in every state.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the globohomo empire. One world, under communism, with sodomy and degeneracy for all. Black lives matter, yo!
Loyalty pledges are creepy whether it's at an RNC debate or in an elementary school.
Pledge to the Constitution of the Republic or the Liberal Democracy of Joe Biden?