In Minnesota tonight, President Trump said he will make burning the American Flag a crime with 1 year in jail as the minimum sentence. As much as I like President Trump, this is wrong, and goes against the principles upon which our Republic was established.
Freedom of speech is not limited to only those we agree with, and we need to support the right of those we may not agree with to exercise that right. Our Rights are sacred. They were conferred upon us by our Creator, and those Rights are unalienable.
The Constitution is not just a word, nor is it an idea. It is literally the source of limited powers granted to the federal government, including the Executive Branch. It is the contract that binds government to those specific limited powers, and nothing more. What President Trump is proposing is no different than what Biden and Harris are doing when they decide one of our Rights is a fair target for their agenda.
I will be honest, I have never looked at our flag with the same zeal as I see many of my friends hold it in. I love what our flag symbolizes, but I do not idolize it. So many hold it so sacred that it seems to be a form of worship.
Instead, I hold the principles upon which our Republic was established with reverence. Our Creator inspired the establishment of These United States, and the principles it was founded upon are sacred. They are literally pulled directly from the teachings of our Savior and really should be what we hold dear, not a piece of cloth, no matter how much it holds symbolism for so many Americans. If someone burns our flag, it is sad and upsetting, but it doesn't harm me, nor anyone else. If, however, someone in government tramples the Constitution and betrays their oath, it causes actual harm. Just look at the J6 hostages, and many others that government has targeted.
I hope and pray that President Trump realizes that he is going too far with the Flag Burning Law he wants to put in place. if not, it leads to a slippery slope of what else he will want to do for our own good. That is what we already have been opposing in Obama, Clinton, Biden, and now Harris.
As long as it is your flag ---- it should be protected speech.
If you burn someone else's flag ---- against their will --- it should destruction of property.
That's a good point
Well, you do not have a right to damage or destroy the property of others. That violates their rights. So that is already illegal, and there are existing laws in most jurisdictions to cover that.
When the federal government pisses me off I just fly my Texas flag ----- even harder.
So more laws arent needed. Peaceful protest is too important to limit it.
Existing laws that ONLY apply to the Right. The left is never held accountable, and at this point in time… Law and order does not exist in America.
That's another matter entirely.
Burning a flag is not freedom of speech. You are not speaking when you're burning a flag.
But what you are doing is insulting all the men who died creating that flag.
Absoulutly and it’s a form of violence and is dangerous as well ,, freedom of SPEECH .. I 100 percent support . Destruction and violence .. NO , lock them the fk up period ! My opinion of course . That’s freedom of speech!
As a vet i disagree. Freedoms of expression are important. Ability to peacefuully peotest is paramount. As long as you arent causing damage to other people's flags or lighting up a public building, i should be able to burn any flag inwant as protest as long as it is done safely. I fought for the right of people to protest a tyrannical government.
I'm a veteran too and if I saw somebody in person burning an American flag I would be extremely angry.
I would be angry but support their right to do what i i diisagree with. I cry at the national anthem. I love my country. But we must protect all expressive rights that dont cause harm or destruction of others property. I would support the need for permission to publically burn, for safety, as long as it is guarenteed to be allowed if done safely. But not ok with banning protest types otherwise.
What if someone was to go vandalize all the graves at the Arlington National Cemetery? That's what you're doing by burning the flag.
No it doesn't. Thats stupid as a comment.
Vet here as well fren. God help whoever burns this flag in front of me.
There was one day I was assigned color guard duty on the boat. I was to go lower the flag off the fantail on the flight deck. There's catch nets all along the flight deck to prevent somebody from going in the drink. Most of the time the catch nets are full of grease to prevent them from corroding from the salt air. It's always a challenge to get the flag past the catch nets without dragging the flag through the grease on the cables. One day a Lt. Colonel caught me. The flag barely made contact with one of the nets. He ripped me up one side and down the other. I felt very ashamed of myself that day and I will never forget that mistake as long as I live.
Amen to that. It kills me every time I see one of these commie lunatics burn the flag. That flag doesn’t represent our government. It represents the lives lost of every person that gave their life in hopes that their future children would live in a better, more free world.
I feel exactly the same way you do.
Ty for your service and for speaking truth !
so in saying this is it OK for people to spray paint the Liberty Bell or other monuments? it’s not hurting anybody technically, but that’s not the freedom of speech that I think applies to the first amendment. Neither does a flag
it’s illegal to the LGBT flag. So as long as it’s illegal to burn that flag, it should be illegal to burn our countries flag as well. It’s either one way or the other.
Do you own the liberty bell? Bad example. You would have to own the property or other laws apply.
Gotta disagree here, burning our flag is showing disrespect to our country and in turn to it's creator. U deserve an ass whippin' for burning our flag plain and simple, but that would probably land my ass in jail. So might as well lock up the correct person.
double edge sword here
being able to burn your own flag as a protest --- is what the flag is about to start with
I totally understand the catch 22, however I still believe u burn an American flag u deserve an ass whippin' lol.
If you burn someone else's flag you deserve a DOUBLE ass whippin'.
Agreed
good ---- alt least we agree on something
:)
This was debated many years ago.
If you had a matchbook cover with a flag on it can you burn it? T-shit?, towel? napkins?, swimsuit? ------ it was a legal can of worms.
The way I see it, if you have a match book cover with a flag on it, it's still a match book cover. If you paint a whale on a car, it's still a car. But I can see how it could potentially prove to be a mess.
Here lies the problem ----- are you going to let the government determine if it is a flag or not?
True that, I wouldn't want the government to really decide anything.
So if you print a flag on a sheet, it is just a sheet.
I’m immediately reminded of this classic Simpsons clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8gt-EEpelY
That's true, I guess I really don't want them to be arrested. I just wouldn't mind whippin' their asses hahaha
I disagree. It is a legit protest form as long as it is your flag you own. I didnt aerve so that SOME rights arw protexted, inserved so all rights are protected Especially ones peoe disagree with.
And it's your right to disagree! And I think my reaction or more to the fact a bunch of degenerates just pulled down a flag that didn't belong to them and burned it. No one got in trouble, they should be in jail.
Yes. Cant steal someones property and burn it. They should be prosecuted.
The circumstances surrounding the burning of the flag are what actually matter here. It may come as a surprise to some, but according to the DoD & VFW, the proper 'flag etiquette' regarding disposal is to burn it. And yes, we should be able to freely exercise our right to do so. Just as there's etiquette for displaying Old Glory, there's also etiquette for disposing of flags in a dignified manner.
Flag Disposal*
1. The flag should be folded in its customary manner.
2. It is important that the fire be fairly large and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the flag.
3. Place the flag on the fire.
4. The individual(s) can come to attention, salute the flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.
5. After the flag is completely consumed, the fire should then be safely extinguished and the ashes buried.
o7 🇺🇸
I was in the military, and I hold the flag in very high regard. Having said that, I do tend to agree with you, 427windsorman. Free speech means people get to say what they want, even though we don't like what they are saying.
A public protest that burns the US flag is an act of national rebellion and treason. There needs to be swift furious punishment for this.
Constitution allows us to overthrow tyrannical government and burning a flag that is representing that tyrannical government is ok. This government is tyrannical.
I would argue that the flag does not represent them, it represents us. Overthrowing them is simply reminding them what that flag stands for, us.
It represents different things to different people. All those represents are ok and none should be silenced.
As the saying attributed to Voltaire goes:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
As long as the flag is your personal property, be it an American flag, Palestinian flag, Israeli flag, gay pride flag, etc., if you want to burn it, that is protected speech. There is no such thing as hate speech. Only free speech.
Agreed. Solid post, anon.
It’s Taking and burning a flag that was someone else’s or one that was Public-on-a-Building. Both are already crimes in most states. Trump wants to make a Federal Law that stops just doing these types of Actions which could stop ANTIFA type victim stealing flags and burning Old Glory.
Don’t get upset when the policy hasn’t even been done, and may never happen. Lots of time to wait and see. God bless you Anon.
I'd be just fine with that. You shouldn't be able to take someone else's property and destroy it.
Didn't I read recently that someone got arrested for leaving skid marks on a pride flag that was painted on the street???
If that shitty horserag can get some protection, than for damn sure the flag of MY COUNTRY should too. The American flag represents the origin of someone's free speech rights in the first place, and it should always be protected from insult and injury.
You make a good argument. However, in such a viewpoint, wouldn't church burning also be an expression of speech?
No. That’s arson, and if it’s occupied in any form, attempted murder.
So I can’t burn my own house down but I can burn an American Flag? That sounds bass ackwards to me.
BS this is coming from someone who actually doesnt know how many patriots died for that flag. The flag represents the country and if you burn that flag you hate that country and should not be there. So prison is the place to put these people. 2 teenagers are looking at 10 years in prison because they did donuts on the LGBTQ flag painted on the ground but you say burning the American flag is ok
THEN YOU ARE NOT AMERICAN AND SHOULD MOVE OUT NOW. ALSO BEFORE YOU GO WATCH THE AMERICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM AS YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE AND FIND OUT WHY THIS FLAG MEANS SO MUCH.
I have served in combat, and i have also lost friends and loved ones in the service of their country. I love our country a great deal, but I also support the rights of those I do not agree with. Burning a flag does me no harm, nor anyone else. As repugnant of an act it may be, harmful it is not.
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
“If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
“No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
“Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
“The error seems not sufficiently eradicated, that the operations of the mind, as well as the acts of the body, are subject to the coercion of the laws. But our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them. The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. ... Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potatoe as an article of food.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
“Our legislators are not sufficiently appraised of the rightful limits of their power; that their true office is to declare and enforce our natural rights and duties, and to take none of them from us. No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another; and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him; every man is under the natural duty of contributing to the necessities of the society; and this is all the laws should enforce on him; and, no man having the right to be the judge between himself and another, it is his natural duty to submit to the umpirage of an impartial third [party]. When the laws have declared and enforced all this, they have fulfilled their functions; and the idea is quite unfounded, that on entering into society we give up any natural right.” ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President letter to Francis W. Gilmer, June 7, 1816
You have the right to protest, you however do not have the right to destroy property in protest. Or to set fires, generally. {Unless of course it's in your own backyard and nobody else is harmed.}
First... Burning the flag is the only acceptable method of disposal for a retired flag, so a law against it would be counter intuitive and Secondly... You are correct. If someone wants to show their displeasure with our country by distroying our flag or monuments they should be able to, but that should be considered treason and dealt with accordingly.
-Trump [when talking about the 3 exceptions for abortion]
Natural law and common sense say you may burn your flag at your property, but not everywhere.
I'll do whatever I want.
If I want to go buy a corporation of the United States flag made in China and burn it, and then piss on the ashes, it's my GOD GIVEN right to do so.
Now personally, I don't condone burning flags. However, I don't need permission from big Daddy govt if I, for whatever reason, want to burn one.
You can sit there and seethe about people dying and all that, but when it comes to freedom and liberty - you either have ALL OF IT - or you have none at all.
After watching the burning of other flags become jailable offenses, no. Outlaw burning of the American flag and jail these mfers
Will this apply within the states of the Union or only to federal territories, federal land, enclaves, military bases and other areas under exclusive federal jurisdiction?
There are already laws on the books making this illegal but.
Nahhh specifically outlawing the burning of the ISA Flag should be done imo. They will put u in jail for burning a fag flag but not USA. Nahhh they started this shit. Plus the burning of a flag is literally a decloration of war
My curiosity is how would such a law overcome past SCOTUS rulings?
We got some new faces since the past scotus rulings.
Have to disagree here. I’m siding with Trump on this one. In my mind, “speech” and a physical action resulting in the destruction of something are two different things.
Sometimes, the most powerful speech can involve no words at all.
The catch-22 regarding freedom of speech in the United States is that it protects malicious hateful speech just as much as it protects positive or acceptable speech.
I agree with you there. I just don’t think setting something on fire is speech, it’s a physical action to set something on fire resulting in the destruction of it. That’s arson. I think with all the new faces on the Supreme Court, we’re gonna see a lot of new rulings going back to the way the founding fathers intended i.e. what the constitution actually says instead of someone’s interpretation of it. Kind of like going with what the Bible actually says instead of some random pope’s interpretation of it.
Symbols.
What does it mean to burn a flag? As the flag is a symbol of certain ideas, so is the act of burning it.
The Flag stands for the what? No, not THE REPUBLIC, but Independence by virtue of your personal sovereignty through life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These are the conditions of any contract following under the Flag.
This means that both a Constitution and the laws pursuant to the former, and the execution of them (implementation) must conform to the conditions set by the Flag. It is the lens which offers the correct (with right) perspective.
By burning that symbol, like Pizarro, all bridges and ships would be burned, turning such a person against the united States (sic),the main tool to express this foundational idea. It is an act on equal footing of levying war against these united States, and may involve treason. So, an enemy of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness may burn that symbol, and therefor showing him or herself to be not a friend but an enemy of those principles (first beginnings)
The desire to change things, is an inherent and reserved right under the Constitution by means of a constitutional convention, or the use of reserved rights under the respective States, or the court system. This requires a revaluation of the current system, where the states are in a diminished position by virtue of the Corporate Franchise, and there is hardly a counter weight to for example: Congress shall make no law/ shall not be infringed. However, these are the methods to express the abolishment of the old and ringing in the new for future security and happiness.
Perspective
Given the discussions from those early beginnings regarding a bill of rights was thought to be necessary, which would eventually become part of The Constitution of 1791, and the review of the current state of the honor towards these rights, it is quite clear Congress is very prone to disregard and not protect,support and defend the Constitution. A more direct process of safeguarding is needed to make sure that "laws" violating the Bill of Rights, are null and void and unenforceable, with a direct result of those trespassers be held accountable and removed.
In other words: it is not that The Flag is sacred, but it expresses a view that is foundational to the social and political compact. The act of destroying such should be felt as equal to renouncing citizenship.
Cheap but Effective
Where I disagree with Trump is the idea to make it punishable by at least 1 year of prison time. I think disbarment to hold office or trust under the united States and even losing citizenship/ residence for Abjurors is much better and eventually: cheaper.
The simple solution here is providing the abjuror UN papers, and expulsion.
On top, I think clear instruction in Flag retiring and Flag etiquette should be pack and parcel of the school curriculum.