Income Tax Debate
(files.catbox.moe)
Comments (49)
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Taxation is THEFT.
Abolish income and personal property taxes.
END THE FED.
I understand sales tax, but no other taxation. Property tax is insane. Especially if you live in CA, Chicagoland, NYC. What those people have to pay on property taxes is pure robbery, nothing more.
And for the love of God, someone please try to explain highway tolls to me. Believe they claim tolls are a way to pay for the construction of roadways, but when does it end? Some roadways have long been paid for but they're still fleecing drivers.
Tollways are privately owned and maintained. They use the tolls to maintain it. From my experience, most toll roads are in far better condition than Interstates on average.
And really, shouldnt those that use the roads pay for them? Just like bundled cable packages, why should I pay for something I never use? I dont watch the Food Network and the little old lady on a pension, living in a retirement community doesnt use the roads.
Try driving across Oklahoma on 44
The biggest problem with the toll roads is that the toll road companies get sweetheart deals from the state to lease the land for the toll roads.
It is often something like a dollar a year, meanwhile the toll road companies make huge money cutting corners on maintenance and initial construction.
Like using asphalt instead of concrete for the roadway on a 15 year lease.
By the time the lease is up the section gets turned over to the state, the entire roadway will need to be repaved.
I worked for a state DOT and my Dept dealt with toll road companies so I have seen the sweet deals made.
Sweet deals aren't the problem. Problem is making the deals properly and enforcing them.
Having clauses to maintain the roads all the way to last day of lease means you have good people working for you in govt, and enforcing them and having big penalties for lack of follow through means you have more good people .
No company wants a toll road lease if they can't make money, and no state should give them freely without assurances of care.
Ultimately, if fed and state can't care for them, let the private sector. Yes, if done correctly (like everything else) it will work.
The problems is, the deals are never done so there are equal partners.
The deals are always the result of someone getting paid off to help the toll road operators make more money and then the roads are always in horrible condition when they are turned back over to the state.
In an idea world your methods would work, but we all know govt at all levels is driven by graft and corruption because no one is ever held accountable.
Not trying to be argumentative and you do have a point.
Just bringing up 2 things:
Absolute statements are frequently wrong. You used the word always, so just letting you know in this case saying "always" isn't true.
Years ago gov. Mitchell Daniels was not a perfect Governor of Indiana, but he solved a LOT of issues, including the issue of the 80/90 toll road across the northern part of the state. The state had run it for years, done some crappy leases, and the solutions never worked. Terrible roads and draining money from the state. Mis-management galore. So Daniels comes in and says, OK, we've given the state a chance, others chances, were gonna lease private at no profit ("for a dollar") and be done. He was almost lynched for it, but proof was in the pudding.
He said just sit and watch, and while yes, the state didn't make money, it stopped losing money too. The private firms came through and the roads were fixed and became better.
After all that complaining his reply was something similar to, it's not costing taxpayer money and the roads are fixed and safe. What's the problem?
I still stand by my 'always' statement.
The solution of giving sweetheart deals to private companies, that are campaign donors quite often, is ignoring the extremely poorly run DOT Depts in most states.
How about we fix the Depts that are funded to maintain and build roads so they can effectively use our tax money, instead of making political insiders money?
As I mentioned, the vast majority of these tolls roads are not adequately maintained towards the end of their terms and the state is left with the enormous costs of performing needed repairs once the right of way has been handed back to the state.
If we are going to privatize DOT duties then let's do it. But let's not allow a DOT to be utterly broken and then ''solve' the problem with partial privatization.
Partial privatization results in each party pointing fingers at the other when something goes catastrophically wrong, with the the state usually footing the bill.
The example you gave 'solved' the problem while allowing the much bigger problem to fester and worsen.
As I mentioned, I worked in a state DOT dept that dealt with these issues, we studied programs in other states to come up with solutions and all of these 'solutions' ignored the systemic problems in the DOT system.
BTW - Merry Christmas, Fren!
Hope you had a wonderful Christmas with family and friends.
Addition. So what if they lease for a dollar? If the state doesn't have to care for it, they save 10s to 100s of millions, and the road will be taken care of . One less thing the govt has to worry about.
NYS Thruway was paid off decades ago. The contract said tolls would cease when paid off.
It is illegal that tolls are still being charged.
Exactly. Illinois said the same thing about their toll roads. The construction was "paid off" in the early 90s, and here we are 30 years later and still paying tolls. It's a criminal cash cow for state g0vernments
Golden Gate Bridge and SF Bay Bridge too. $1? LOL, it’ll be $8 next week (GG bridge now $9.50)
Like toll bridges..when close to being done..they start another project
Could we actually be living in a timeline where the IRS is brought down?? Wow!
they sneaked income tax in one Christmas time when no one had the information
Pretty sure we don’t have to pay “income taxes” right now, because most of us don’t make “income”.
Vernacular word usage is not statutory definition. There are some posts on here about it. I haven’t done the necessary actions yet, but some here have, and i have met others
losthorizons.com it works. I know first hand. Wages are not income. Only employees of federal agencies have to pay taxes on their labor or if you live in one of the 7 territories owned by the US Corporation. Puerto Rico for example.
Very good info. Thanks, God Bless and Merry Birth ofChrist Day. I believe we will all be doing the same as you soon.
It would take an act of Congress to amend the Constitution
Although rare, it has happened before
Need one amendment repealing the sketchy 16th...plus another, simultaneous amendment specifically forbidding Congress to ever create an income tax and specifically forbidding all forms of federal taxation except [insert accurate wording here - tariffs, etc.]
I used to say replace with 1% federal sales tax, but the vampires would eventually find a way to grow that from 1% to 33% ;) - so screw it
The IRS; the Private Banks; and Big Pharma. Basically the Deep State.
losthorizons.com clears it all up. I know because I did it. If you live in one of the 50 states and do not work for a federal agency, you do not have to pay income tax. I believe you do have to file so just file an amended return with form 4852.
And so explain to everyone what happens when the IRS audits you, fines you, and takes you to court? Do you just send them a web link? Sounds legit.
This is why I should never post. The thing is they don't do that. When you cite the actual law and not talk bullshit like you think people do, they listen and follow the law. But I wouldn't expect you to know or listen or even spend any time reading about this topic. You already know...
How would somebody go about stopping their employer from taking taxes out of their paycheck; or is there a way to get refunded all the taxes that the employer takes out and gives to the government?
That is a great question. I don't know that there is a way to stop an employer from taking "taxes" from a paycheck. But there is definitely a way to have those "taxes" returned. Buy the book. Read. Look at the evidence. Do NOT depend on me to to guide you because I won't. Do your own research.
A post is exactly what you should do, so that you can help people. Even if someone understands the law, how many people do you think can afford to risk "citing the law" to federal agencies as their "get out of jail free" card. It doesn't work that way either. And if it does, you'd be helping by explaining that touchpoint, because that's the crux of the matter. More power to you if you do this stuff balls out.
I'll tell you how it has worked for me. The thing is when you file a tax return, you are swearing under penalty of perjury that all the information you submitted is true and correct, and you are effectively waiving your 5th Amendment right to not self-incriminate. There is no law that can compel ordinary citizens to provide ANY information that could potentially incriminate them. Its a fallacy that taxes are mandatory. Its actually a donation and when you file a tax return you are declaring your gift to the federal government.
I cited the website. Buy the book and look at the success stories. Realize what they are doing and why it works. I don't say this to argue a point or to measure it against other methods. There are plenty of those...
I posted this to explain what worked for me and why. You are free to go explore this for yourself and make up your own mind.
If what you say is true I should be in jail. Yet I am not and there are no threats of jail either.
I had already saved your link for further reading, so please consider my jest in fun and to advance the conversation. Tbf, not everyone can take such a deep dive to understand, and if they did, the dig still apparently doesn't address the touchpoint I raised above. I do know people who have been audited several times. The way you're describing it, the audited parties only need to cite the law and nothing will happen to them. Have you been challenged directly by the IRS? Audited?
You want to see the letters they sent me? What do you want exactly? I have the same evidence the site I posted has. It works. Believe whatever you want I honestly don't care. I posted only to show there is a path. Not all paths are the same.
Read the book. Explore the website. Compare to what you currently know.
I really don't care what you do. If I am a lie then so be it. Prove it. I know my stuff proves what I say. Prove yours!
I tried this and they are just charging me through the nose now. They shouldn't be able to, but that doesn't stop them.
If you don't mind sharing, how long have you been doing it and have you suffered any negative consequences as a result?
I'm intending to pay my state taxes, but was gonna slow walk the federal check this year.
All I can say is go to the website, buy the book and read it. Look at all the evidence of people who have been successful, then realize that only a small percentage of people send in their evidence. I never did but so far have had 2 separate years completely refunded. Still working on one.
The best advice I ever got is always reply. Never just ignore a letter from them. Cite the law and stand on your rights.
just fyi, the author of ctc spent some time in prison.
I filed as a NRA, since you are foreign under the usc 26 definition.
the gotcha is a foreigner using the wrong obm filing.
You all should by now be aware that the 16th was never ratified. Best research yields only two states that gave it a yes.
The IRS admits it in many court cases. And, the federal reserve is unconstitutional.
The income tax is primarily a "reporting requirement". Helps government isolate "regulatory opportunity" as well as pockets of value regionally and by business category for private equity and big business to rape
We can end all this back and forth debating by just abolishing the IRS. Easy. 👌
My frens, even if all of us Americans had the guts to stand up to the IRS, the IRS has more munitions than many free standing armies around the world. The IRS is evil.
Saved. Thank you for this
There is no debate. The IRS was set up illegally. Disband and defund now.
When the IRS says the 16th amendment authorizes the income tax, they're lying. The corporate income tax was implemented in the tariff act of 1909, which was amended and repealed in part for the tariff act of 1913, which implemented the "individual" income tax. In my opinion, they were regulating foreign commerce.
Internal Revenue is internal to the United States (DC and the territories, federal lands) and not the 50 states of the Union.
The 16th Am is in effect in the federal zone, but not the States of the Union.
There is no debate. The IRS was set up illegally. Disband and defund now.
Look up Brandon Joe Williams on YouTube.
Slime ball. Laws are passed by the house and senate. Irs code is neither and the income tax amendment is unconstitutional period. As far as I'm concerned we either roll back tax laws or their is no MAGA. Without it MAGA is a big fat lie and I'll consider trump a fraud at that point. Irs is deep state and trump is getting rid of them and the fed reserve or why bother at all.