This is what happens when you have Sadducees for leaders - Especially when they essentially control the narrative through the priesthood. That would be like controlling all three branches of government, and the media.
Are you talking specifically about the crown of thorns? Or the crucifixion? They're connected but not the same. The trial and crucifixion were absolutely at the behest of the Jews, but the specific act of making the crown of thorns is not attributed in the Bible to anyone other than the Roman soldiers.
Matthew 27:27-30:
"Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole Roman cohort around Him. And they stripped Him and put a red cloak on Him, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and put a reed in His right hand; and they knelt down before Him and mocked Him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they spit on Him, and took the reed and beat Him on the head."
Mark 15:16-19:
"The soldiers took Him away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium), and they called together the whole Roman cohort. And they dressed Him in purple, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; and they began saluting Him: ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they repeatedly beat His head with a reed, spit on Him, and knelt down to pay false homage to Him."
John 19:1-3:
"So Pilate then took Jesus and had Him flogged. And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and placed it on His head, and put a purple cloak on Him; and they repeatedly came up to Him and said, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ and slapped Him in the face."
(this is a significant increase from the 2012 estimates: By 2012, estimates for the number of Messianic Jews in the United States ranged from 175,000 to 250,000, and worldwide estimates were around 350,000, About triple the number is now reported by all Israel.)
Very funny, pbuh is not a Messianic name, but means "peace be upon him" after a name. Muslims do want a messianic Mahdi who does not atone, but many think he will be accompanied by some kind of Jesus. So they believe Jesus is al-Masih but downplay its relevance and do not think of his "anointing" as kingly. There's a path for them to find the truth, especially about tawhid, but it's not easy and so Jesus is appearing to many of them individually to give them some fast tracks.
So "Christ is King" would trouble Muslims and offend a few, but it logically shouldn't offend Jews, who are taking offense to what is unstated (Jesus is Christ and king now).
The anti-Zionists are almost as deranged as the Zionists.
It's the anti-Zionists getting banned around here like crazy as they parade around like they're the digital equivalent of Patriot Front.
Certainly Christ is King, there should be a thread about that on its own and not leveraged by the "Hitler did nothing wrong" group who can't be bothered to follow forum rules.
Why does Jesus use this phrase to refer to those who are opposing the mission of the kingdom of God? The name “Satan” means Accuser. And a synagogue was a gathering place. If you put them together, then it is a gathering place of the accuser. (ex: gathering in front of a tv)
The bible gives more clues as to the identity in Revelations 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
The same language is used in Revelations 2:9 for those who are “slandering” and again “say that they are Jews and are not.”
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
It's somewhat similar to Paul’s language in Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Because they are not part of the mission of God, they are no longer to be considered the people of God. You cannot be in direct opposition to Jesus Christ, who is the true Israel, and consider yourself as still being a Jew. You are, as Paul said, only one outwardly.
Anyone involved in slander, lying, accusations or dehumanizing is aligning with Satan's work. While this passage primarily addresses Christian persecution, it extends to all who actively oppose the Kingdom of God and persecute believers, identifying them as part of Satan's work. This would make them a member of the synagogue of Satan.
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Fair enough. I think Ignatius, who wrote letters to these exact same two churches only 12 years after Jesus did (108), gives evidence that Jesus prophesied correctly that the "synagogue" would repent at the disciples' feet, which seems to have happened when Ignatius spoke.
That's the difference, Judiasm doesn't believe the Messiah has ever came, and is still in wait, it would depend on the re-establishment of the Jewish Temple (Beith Hamikdash).
But Messiah is still King, who will come from among the living and/or from among the dead, even as (according to tradition) he sits by the riverside, washing his wounds only one at a time because he may be called at any moment.
Jews need to reclaim "Christ is King" for themselves. The Lubavitchers have. Mashiach Now!
According to tradition, he doesn’t need the Beith Hamikdash standing to step into his role. Maimonides says he’ll build it - not a condition for his coming, but a mark of his reign. Take King Herod: he rebuilt the Temple, grander than before, yet tradition never crowns him Messiah—lacking David’s line and redemption’s spirit, he was no king of ours. Imagine the true one, as some say, by the riverside, washing his wounds one at a time, not borrowed from elsewhere. And yet history brings caution: there’s deep fear in assimilation, stretching back to the Hellenization of the Greeks and led to the Maccabean Revolt; and in Spain, conversion couldn’t erase the cultural identity, only deepened the dread.
For the record , as a jew I don't regard it as hate speech, and I have a deep respect for people of faith as they provide the moral underpinning of society. I despise the overuse of the term antisemitsm as it devalues the term where it actually exists.
It's a pleasure to talk with you, we may have spoken before. For the record, I don't "proselytize" but I do seek to testify to truth winsomely about my experiences that I identify with Messiah; and I trust that ordinary Jewish people are able to manage the tension between polite conversation about the Nazarene and the wounds performed in his name that still need addressing. I created c/TheJews so that things like this could be discussed and so that Jewish people could come to grips with the fullness of their own sources and traditions (something that Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and Muslims haven't done either).
The pleasure is mine as well! And I believe you in that - and I trust there is wisdom in understanding the errors in our ways to serve as a come to Jesus moment.
The trick is this. Schneersohn never claimed to be Messiah because he knew it was the Messiah's job not to claim it for himself! He aspired to be the final Rebbe and final Messiah but, as he told Netanyahu, all one can do is hasten every moment to do what is fitting for the Messiah being revealed. This required his sect to quietly permit two competing views, one that he is now the final Messiah (which is good because it makes them come to grips with how Messiah may come from the dead according to Talmudic tradition); and one that he is not yet the final Messiah (which is good because they still demand Messiah be revealed immediately). In keeping with Schneersohn's Talmudic view that "this and this" are both God's words, these coexist and must find the harmony (for instance, there is no problem saying Schneersohn was "the Messiah for his generation" as David and Hezekiah were).
Therefore when the Lubavitchers sing "Our very eyes will see the Rebbe King Moshiach walking into shul", they can be encouraged to work out the harmony of their views for themselves. The whole offense of OP, and of the Lubavitchers separately, is not usually their slogans but those who specifically identify which Messiah we're talking about. The point of Messiah is for people to recognize and accept him of their own freewill without any pressure or influence from outside of themselves: and when they realize they have, they will also realize it was a new birth event that both came naturally by their responses and was brought about wholly by another. You like "not either/or but both/and", right?
Sanhedrin 98a:16: Said to: When Messiah come? Said to him: Go ask him. And where is he sitting? At the entrance of Rome. And what is his sign? He sits among the poor who suffer from illnesses. And all of them untie and tie at once, unties one and ties one. He says: Perhaps I will be needed that I will not be delayed.
Sanhedrin 98b:13-15: Messiah .... Rav Nahman says: If is among the living such as me, as it is stated: “And their prince shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from their midst”. Rav says: If is among the living such as our saintly Rabbi. If is among the dead such as Daniel, the beloved man.
There are standard implications read into these clauses, for instance the river for washing the wounds is mentioned earlier on the page, and the Messiah's practice is implied as being not to untie all his bandages at once.
Because the Ashkenazim do not actually subscribe to the Jewish faith.
They are a nation (Kazaria) who adopted Judaism as a camouflage before the nation was destroyed. They rate the Talmud above the Bible when it comes to their "faith", and they are just as hypocritical as the Muslims who think that lying to non-Muslims is OK, but lying to Muslims isn't.
(yawn) No, the merger of Khazars and Jews over a millennium ago does not mean the Ashkenazim ever at any time ceased to be accepted as Jews by the whole of Judaism. Every other people group is allowed to define itself, but othering of Jews seems to come up quite frequently when people seem to claim some right to say you're not what race your own community all agrees you are.
(yawn) They don't rate the Talmud above the Bible (Tanakh), they regard it as more significant for daily living because it contains case law rather than general principles.
Yes, the idea of lying to outsiders is common in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity where it is called "reserve" and "Jesuitry".
And, on point, Ashkenazim believe Messiah is the future king.
Christ is King. But more importantly he's the literal Son of God. Yes a seperate individual not some part of the pagan Trinity doctrine. He's also our brother and friend. He lowered himself from glory to make himself equal with us so he could lift us up to Him.
The Bible doesn't use either word, "individual" or "trinity". However, Jesus does speak of two witnesses and everyone knew that passage also meant three witnesses.
But it does include "biblos", from which "bible" comes (the NT starts with "biblos"). Also "three" ("treis"), from which "trine" and "trinity" come.
Anyway, I agree with being exact both about what it says and about what concepts are very clear from it. When speaking with nontrinitarians I can affirm any proposition necessary in the book's own words rather than using the trinitarian formulae. To the Law and to the Testimony!
In that culture when you cited a passage that everyone knew, the whole passage was directly implied and understood by everyone, just like if I give you a meme you know the unstated implications of the picture or brief words. The passage in Moses says two or three witnesses directly, and Jesus cited that exact passage but used the application about two witnesses. So Moses said it and Jesus meant it.
It's also significant that the part of 1 John that is verified says the Spirit (Jesus's Breath), the water, and the blood are three witnesses, citing the same passage. (I think Tertullian wrote the other part, the "Johannine comma", in a margin, and then it got added to many manuscripts afterward due to misunderstanding.) So what we do have is that Father and Son are two witnesses (many Jesus-only types accept this), and Jesus's Spirit is also another witness ("another" can mean of the same or of a different category, and most followers of Jesus are fine with this if it's a different category).
Yes, yes He is.
Clearly, it's not antisemitic, but even if it were, so what?
Exactly. The Zionists aka Pharisees are born from evil. Jesus is king.
The noticing is going mainstream.
#The Great Noticing ; )
Christ means Messiah.. They should be agreeing..lol
They should have been agreeing for the last ≈2000 years, but ...
This is what happens when you have Sadducees for leaders - Especially when they essentially control the narrative through the priesthood. That would be like controlling all three branches of government, and the media.
And when Christ returns they'll really be sad, you see?
Exactly aka Pharisees
Too busy making thorny crowns.
Check your Bible. The Roman guards did that.
At the behest of the Jews. finish reading.
Are you talking specifically about the crown of thorns? Or the crucifixion? They're connected but not the same. The trial and crucifixion were absolutely at the behest of the Jews, but the specific act of making the crown of thorns is not attributed in the Bible to anyone other than the Roman soldiers.
Matthew 27:27-30:
"Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole Roman cohort around Him. And they stripped Him and put a red cloak on Him, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and put a reed in His right hand; and they knelt down before Him and mocked Him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they spit on Him, and took the reed and beat Him on the head."
Mark 15:16-19: "The soldiers took Him away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium), and they called together the whole Roman cohort. And they dressed Him in purple, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; and they began saluting Him: ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ And they repeatedly beat His head with a reed, spit on Him, and knelt down to pay false homage to Him."
John 19:1-3: "So Pilate then took Jesus and had Him flogged. And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and placed it on His head, and put a purple cloak on Him; and they repeatedly came up to Him and said, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ and slapped Him in the face."
The part where the Roman declared him innocent and the Jews cried out Crucify Him Let his blood be on our heads. And that curse remains to this day.
Acts 5.30 is very specific on this subject.
Case closed.
A Significant Minority Do!
(Roughly about One MILLION Already Do, Evidence Follows:
Over One Million Messianic Jews Worldwide: https://allisrael.com/studies-reveal-there-are-now-1-million-followers-of-jesus-worldwide-of-jewish-descent
World Wide Jewish Population: https://www.timesofisrael.com/global-jewish-population-hits-15-7-million-ahead-of-new-year-46-of-them-in-israel/
(this is a significant increase from the 2012 estimates: By 2012, estimates for the number of Messianic Jews in the United States ranged from 175,000 to 250,000, and worldwide estimates were around 350,000, About triple the number is now reported by all Israel.)
They wanted a military Messiah that did not call them to repent and believe. Islam wants a non-God messiah named P’bu that does not atone for sins.
As far as Islam and Judaism are concerned, calling Christ King and Lord is hate speech against both of them: antisemitic and anti Islamic 🙄
Very funny, pbuh is not a Messianic name, but means "peace be upon him" after a name. Muslims do want a messianic Mahdi who does not atone, but many think he will be accompanied by some kind of Jesus. So they believe Jesus is al-Masih but downplay its relevance and do not think of his "anointing" as kingly. There's a path for them to find the truth, especially about tawhid, but it's not easy and so Jesus is appearing to many of them individually to give them some fast tracks.
So "Christ is King" would trouble Muslims and offend a few, but it logically shouldn't offend Jews, who are taking offense to what is unstated (Jesus is Christ and king now).
The truth of Christ Is King does offend the Jewish people who reject Jesus as Messiah and Lord.
King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He is risen
Thank You!
Cool! Our Lord, Saviour and Best Friend, Jesus Christ is King!!!
Sneezing is now antisemitic. Act accordingly.
Farting is not allowed in elevators.
This doesn't belong on this forum.
Why?
The anti-Zionists are almost as deranged as the Zionists.
It's the anti-Zionists getting banned around here like crazy as they parade around like they're the digital equivalent of Patriot Front.
Certainly Christ is King, there should be a thread about that on its own and not leveraged by the "Hitler did nothing wrong" group who can't be bothered to follow forum rules.
Candace is talking about all that tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/live/X8BnNC4P8Q8?si=yeRt_x2WCVn4h5eh
Excellent episode.
I’m not sure if Candace is trust worthy some say she is another Mossad asset. If oils be wrong but be careful who you follow.
Wait until someone speaks up about Rev 2:9 and 3:9 at the proper time
Synagogue of Satan
Why does Jesus use this phrase to refer to those who are opposing the mission of the kingdom of God? The name “Satan” means Accuser. And a synagogue was a gathering place. If you put them together, then it is a gathering place of the accuser. (ex: gathering in front of a tv)
The bible gives more clues as to the identity in Revelations 3:9
The same language is used in Revelations 2:9 for those who are “slandering” and again “say that they are Jews and are not.”
It's somewhat similar to Paul’s language in Romans 2:28-29
Because they are not part of the mission of God, they are no longer to be considered the people of God. You cannot be in direct opposition to Jesus Christ, who is the true Israel, and consider yourself as still being a Jew. You are, as Paul said, only one outwardly.
Anyone involved in slander, lying, accusations or dehumanizing is aligning with Satan's work. While this passage primarily addresses Christian persecution, it extends to all who actively oppose the Kingdom of God and persecute believers, identifying them as part of Satan's work. This would make them a member of the synagogue of Satan.
Fair enough. I think Ignatius, who wrote letters to these exact same two churches only 12 years after Jesus did (108), gives evidence that Jesus prophesied correctly that the "synagogue" would repent at the disciples' feet, which seems to have happened when Ignatius spoke.
u/hsproductions
And the jews are anti- Christian and that's worse than someone being an "antisemitic".
Antisemitic doesn't mean shit anymore
Never did.
Well, the ones calling that aren't semites anyways so.
They will call you anti-Semitic, but they can't call you a liar
Antisemitic lol? Isnt Jesus a semite"?
Isn't "Christ is King" the 12th of the 13 principles of Judaism? Ani ma'amin b'vi'at haMashiach. I wonder what's so anti-Semitic about it.
That's the difference, Judiasm doesn't believe the Messiah has ever came, and is still in wait, it would depend on the re-establishment of the Jewish Temple (Beith Hamikdash).
But Messiah is still King, who will come from among the living and/or from among the dead, even as (according to tradition) he sits by the riverside, washing his wounds only one at a time because he may be called at any moment.
Jews need to reclaim "Christ is King" for themselves. The Lubavitchers have. Mashiach Now!
According to tradition, he doesn’t need the Beith Hamikdash standing to step into his role. Maimonides says he’ll build it - not a condition for his coming, but a mark of his reign. Take King Herod: he rebuilt the Temple, grander than before, yet tradition never crowns him Messiah—lacking David’s line and redemption’s spirit, he was no king of ours. Imagine the true one, as some say, by the riverside, washing his wounds one at a time, not borrowed from elsewhere. And yet history brings caution: there’s deep fear in assimilation, stretching back to the Hellenization of the Greeks and led to the Maccabean Revolt; and in Spain, conversion couldn’t erase the cultural identity, only deepened the dread.
Yes! https://scored.co/c/GreatAwakening/p/19AdzEZLOe/christ-is-king-is-trending-on-x-/c/4eRSh3VSz7R
For the record , as a jew I don't regard it as hate speech, and I have a deep respect for people of faith as they provide the moral underpinning of society. I despise the overuse of the term antisemitsm as it devalues the term where it actually exists.
It's a pleasure to talk with you, we may have spoken before. For the record, I don't "proselytize" but I do seek to testify to truth winsomely about my experiences that I identify with Messiah; and I trust that ordinary Jewish people are able to manage the tension between polite conversation about the Nazarene and the wounds performed in his name that still need addressing. I created c/TheJews so that things like this could be discussed and so that Jewish people could come to grips with the fullness of their own sources and traditions (something that Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and Muslims haven't done either).
The pleasure is mine as well! And I believe you in that - and I trust there is wisdom in understanding the errors in our ways to serve as a come to Jesus moment.
Sauce on the Lubavitchers, please?
Sure. Wikipedia "Chabad messianism" cites this report about a 2002 Lubavitcher songbook for instance.
The trick is this. Schneersohn never claimed to be Messiah because he knew it was the Messiah's job not to claim it for himself! He aspired to be the final Rebbe and final Messiah but, as he told Netanyahu, all one can do is hasten every moment to do what is fitting for the Messiah being revealed. This required his sect to quietly permit two competing views, one that he is now the final Messiah (which is good because it makes them come to grips with how Messiah may come from the dead according to Talmudic tradition); and one that he is not yet the final Messiah (which is good because they still demand Messiah be revealed immediately). In keeping with Schneersohn's Talmudic view that "this and this" are both God's words, these coexist and must find the harmony (for instance, there is no problem saying Schneersohn was "the Messiah for his generation" as David and Hezekiah were).
Therefore when the Lubavitchers sing "Our very eyes will see the Rebbe King Moshiach walking into shul", they can be encouraged to work out the harmony of their views for themselves. The whole offense of OP, and of the Lubavitchers separately, is not usually their slogans but those who specifically identify which Messiah we're talking about. The point of Messiah is for people to recognize and accept him of their own freewill without any pressure or influence from outside of themselves: and when they realize they have, they will also realize it was a new birth event that both came naturally by their responses and was brought about wholly by another. You like "not either/or but both/and", right?
That I do! Thank you!
The Jewish traditions are:
Sanhedrin 98a:16: Said to: When Messiah come? Said to him: Go ask him. And where is he sitting? At the entrance of Rome. And what is his sign? He sits among the poor who suffer from illnesses. And all of them untie and tie at once, unties one and ties one. He says: Perhaps I will be needed that I will not be delayed.
Sanhedrin 98b:13-15: Messiah .... Rav Nahman says: If is among the living such as me, as it is stated: “And their prince shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from their midst”. Rav says: If is among the living such as our saintly Rabbi. If is among the dead such as Daniel, the beloved man.
There are standard implications read into these clauses, for instance the river for washing the wounds is mentioned earlier on the page, and the Messiah's practice is implied as being not to untie all his bandages at once.
Because the Ashkenazim do not actually subscribe to the Jewish faith.
They are a nation (Kazaria) who adopted Judaism as a camouflage before the nation was destroyed. They rate the Talmud above the Bible when it comes to their "faith", and they are just as hypocritical as the Muslims who think that lying to non-Muslims is OK, but lying to Muslims isn't.
(yawn) No, the merger of Khazars and Jews over a millennium ago does not mean the Ashkenazim ever at any time ceased to be accepted as Jews by the whole of Judaism. Every other people group is allowed to define itself, but othering of Jews seems to come up quite frequently when people seem to claim some right to say you're not what race your own community all agrees you are.
(yawn) They don't rate the Talmud above the Bible (Tanakh), they regard it as more significant for daily living because it contains case law rather than general principles.
Yes, the idea of lying to outsiders is common in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity where it is called "reserve" and "Jesuitry".
And, on point, Ashkenazim believe Messiah is the future king.
Jesus is Lord. His name is Jesus. That's the name they fear. The power is in His NAME. They'll Christ is King y'all all day.
You Americans and your obsessions with Lord. I really dislike having to read your Lord this and Lord that all the time.
Go and see some actual real Lords. As the saying goes you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
https://x.com/UKHouseofLords
tl;dr lords are not good
Christ is King. But more importantly he's the literal Son of God. Yes a seperate individual not some part of the pagan Trinity doctrine. He's also our brother and friend. He lowered himself from glory to make himself equal with us so he could lift us up to Him.
That's what the Bible says.
The Bible doesn't use either word, "individual" or "trinity". However, Jesus does speak of two witnesses and everyone knew that passage also meant three witnesses.
I try to interact with nontrinitarian thought respectfully.
There are a lot of words not in the Bible.
Including the word "Bible."
The Bible illustrates the concept well.
The word "Trinity" may not appear, but the Bible speaks of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The concept is very clear.
But it does include "biblos", from which "bible" comes (the NT starts with "biblos"). Also "three" ("treis"), from which "trine" and "trinity" come.
Anyway, I agree with being exact both about what it says and about what concepts are very clear from it. When speaking with nontrinitarians I can affirm any proposition necessary in the book's own words rather than using the trinitarian formulae. To the Law and to the Testimony!
What exactly is the Holy Spirit?
It meant it or someone infers it?
In that culture when you cited a passage that everyone knew, the whole passage was directly implied and understood by everyone, just like if I give you a meme you know the unstated implications of the picture or brief words. The passage in Moses says two or three witnesses directly, and Jesus cited that exact passage but used the application about two witnesses. So Moses said it and Jesus meant it.
It's also significant that the part of 1 John that is verified says the Spirit (Jesus's Breath), the water, and the blood are three witnesses, citing the same passage. (I think Tertullian wrote the other part, the "Johannine comma", in a margin, and then it got added to many manuscripts afterward due to misunderstanding.) So what we do have is that Father and Son are two witnesses (many Jesus-only types accept this), and Jesus's Spirit is also another witness ("another" can mean of the same or of a different category, and most followers of Jesus are fine with this if it's a different category).
I don't care if He was white, black, or freakin' GREEN.
Did He save my soul?