Not exactly. Truck manufacturers, no longer having to pay income taxes, will adjust prices accordingly. An equilibrium will be found. You probably bought a truck in the past and paid just as much to the government, but you never thought about it because it was done behind the scenes with complicated IRS compliance b.s.
What I want to see is all the damn hidden taxes taken out. Taxes on top of taxes. Scrap everything. We pay taxes, and pay for people's taxes that they have paid. The entire system is a con.
Now, we all know this will never pass. Maybe try in two years.
By not paying Income Taxes though, the bar for entry is presumably lowered, making room for more competition in that market. Assuming capitalist principles still apply, it's a race to the bottom on prices, and the vendor who provides the best service for the lowest cost wins.
The problem with this is that even if people pay the same rate, taxation "hurts" those already established and wealthy less than those who aren't. Taxation will never be "fair" even if you make the rate people pay the same, in fact that is the quickest way to make it completely unfair. The issue here though is that if you try to make people pay various different rates based on how much they have or make, that too is not fair. So how do you make it fair? Making the rate equal isn't fair, likewise having different rates isn't fair. Is it even possible for taxation to be "truly fair" for everybody? Honestly, I don't think it is.
All true. If you make $50k a year, this VAT tax hurts a hell of a lot more than if you make $500k. They'd collect more in taxes from the hood because spinnin rims than they're collecting now via the international robbery service. That's a whole sector not contributing anything whatsoever.
That's exacting what I've heard, but also heard it would be more like 15%.
In addition once currency is gold back they expect prices to fall to the 1950's level.
This isn't quite correct. What happens with the Fair Tax is you get a monthly "prebate" from the Government, which is based on the Federal Poverty Level. This means, you're still paying the taxes at the retailer, but the Government has already given you the funds to pay for those taxes, so it "balances out". If you spend money on necessities at a retailer, which goes above what the Government deems to be your basic needs, then you're still paying Sales Taxes.
And replace it with an across the board tax rate of 23% for all purchases. Though I have heard from other media sources “Essentials” up to a certain dollar amount can be purchased tax free.
Though what was defined as “essential” was not defined in the sources I’ve read.
Not at all. I believe this is a typical swamp creature tactic. Make bold moves that have no chance of success to make it appear the politicians are on the side of their voters. AKA dog and pony...
In the timeframe from the new Congress (a couple weeks ago) up to at least the ‘24 election, I feel that a big part of The Great Awakening will be…
“Sometimes you can’t TELL the public the truth. YOU MUST SHOW THEM.” - Q
If our side continually pumps out logical, America First policies that the public is overwhelmingly in favor of, and the Uniparty continues to quash/veto those policies, it will show the public. Yes, the sleeping masses haven’t paid attention to this in the past, but it’s different now; people are waking up, paying attention, and a newly freed Twitter is enlightening the sheep while MSM is dying more by the day.
Dear dumbass, Covid + Cares Act for Covid cost $3-4Trillion....NOT Trump's fault. His economy was ROCKING.
You support LESS of Trump economics and MORE shutdowns/globalist theft-by-panic. You are the last thing anybody needs...unless they need more global socialism and baby sandwiches.
I'm holding a copy of "The FairTax Book" from 2005, signed by authors Neal Boortz and former congressman John Linder.
I don't know exactly what Kevin McCarthy has proposed or how it may differ, but many of these concerns/questions are fully addressed in the original book.
If you're interested in 'The Fair Tax', please find and read 'The FairTax Book'. It's an excellent plan as designed.
The FairTax movement had trailblazers. The plan was developed by competent people and publicly debated. Those raising objections now should review the debates during development for more information.
it would never pass the senate to many chipmunk nutz and rinos there ...then the potato would be told not to sign it...unless they stuck a little girl scout to it
no more than 10% and it includes all the State and Local taxes collected by every municipality - let them ALL collapse under the weight of their own greed.
How many folks decided to collect money from other people by incorporating county lands into a city so they could implement taxes?
That needs to end. A lot of cities can just retired themselves and let people keep their own money.
Also fuel taxes for roads: one true flat tax.
Removing individual income tax is a great idea, however what McCarthy has created is far too broad of a brush stroke for anyone to really bite.
It's really a 30% tax on everything that everyone buys, which is stupidly high. It also still hits low and middle income super hard. I think it should be a straight 15% on durable goods and services, with a much lower tax (1%) on food, pharmacy items, and household supplies.
Poor people and those who are on strict budgets (people just trying to get by feeding their families) won't feel much of a pinch at all. Upper-middle income and especially rich people who tend to buy a lot of expensive shit will pay more as a byproduct.
I honestly think the Federal Gov would rake in more money doing it this way, as opposed to ripping money out of people's paychecks. The tax system as it is today can be super gamed... but there is no escaping the sales tax at the register.
Interesting; I need to dig just a little bit into this. Pretty much any tax from the government is wrong. Of course, they can dun everyone with a sales tax.......Thanks.
In the Philippines probably less than half the workers pay payroll taxes. Cash jobs abound. Mostly professionals such as police, teachers, government, and corporate. They have a VAT of 12%, but for most things you don't notice it because something that costs 100 say, the tax is already included. So its 100 not 112.
Many people have micro businesses where they sell things and they buy @ retail with the tax and mark up a little. The further from town centre the more the markup. A bottle of rum that sells for 125 at a grocery would be 135 at edge of town and 145-150 in the boonies. Very hard to buy wholesale anything. Some stores cater to these micro businesses, but are only around 1% cheaper than a regular grocer.
This is the perfect plan. Yes, things will cost more.. but in the long run, the markets will adjust. What will really happen is that the ultra rich will now be paying a LOT more for their 'Toys' For example, buying a $10k eyeglass case will now put an additional $2,300 in the 'coffers' Dining out for the super wealthy will cost them more, but they won't even notice it since spending $500 on lunch is already no big deal to them. And on and on and on..
The only objection I have would be for regular groceries, like bread, milk, meat. They should have some essentials that would be exempt. Make it a 'Luxury Tax'. No matter what, it will be a boon for small businesses who get taxed to death at every turn. A small business comeback is what will save America.
Your concern over exemption for essentials is shared by many and is addressed in the plan. Instead of having a list of non taxed essentials which would likely be subject to political manipulation and would be difficult to administer, they developed what is referred to as a prebate. Under this provision every qualifying individual would be sent a monthly rebate equal to the tax on spending up to the national poverty level. For example, the poverty level for a family of four is $27,500. If the tax is set at 23%, that family of four would qualify for a yearly rebate of $6,325 and would receive a monthly check of $527 to cover the tax on essentials. In essence, they would have an exemption on $27,500 in yearly spending. The poverty rate for a single person is $12,880 and the rebate would be adjusted accordingly but would be for everyone qualifying regardless of income or net worth.
Everyone would be able to determine how much tax they would pay each year simply by adjusting their spending. A novel approach for supposedly free people.
So, if the IRS is abolished....who is going to administer and mail out those prebate checks? Sounds like more bloated bureaucracy and overhead that runs contrary to cutting spending.
It has been some time since I read the proposal but I seem to remember that the states were slated to collect the tax along with their current sales tax and the Social Security Administration would pay the prebate based on valid Social Security Numbers. When you consider elimination of the reporting and tracking of income by individuals, employers, financial institutions, charities, as well as government at all levels, you would very likely have less bureaucracy.
I doubt this has a chance of becoming law for the simple reason that the individual income tax is more for control of the population than raising revenue. Even if it resulted in me paying more, I would support it for the simple benefit of having privacy in and control of my own financial life.
Thank you for the additional info. I try to come from a point of logic, rather than paranoia. This is not the first time that a 'value added' or 'luxury tax' has been proposed. And who do you think are going to be the most adamantly against it?
Doesn't take a genius. Most don't know there was no income tax AT ALL, until 1913.
As to those most adamantly against it I would speculate that would be those who benefit most from the current system, including those who, for whatever reason pay very little or no tax.
22% is pretty steep, my wife and I will have paid 6,600 (Aprox) this year on income of 80K (Aprox) and we have no writeoffs at all since we rent and no kids.
What pisses me off is My SS is taxed, my crap job is taxed, my wife's job is taxed. My salary was 8k over the cap of 19,500 so they will be taking 4K back from that this year. They also deduct SS and medicare from my pay.
Still even at that its less than 22% VAT tax if you spend all you earn.
The benefits are to people who are able to spend less... If you can spend only half of your income on taxable things you are at 11%
So much misinformation here! Let me explain briefly how the Fair Tax works
All current federal income taxes, capital gains taxes, etc. end. No more income tax returns every year. No more taxes withheld from your paycheck, and so on.
There's a federal sales tax on all NEW goods
The government gives a monthly check to every US Citizen to basically "untax" what it would cost to live at some level of poverty
Some benefits:
People who were not paying taxes before now start to pay, including criminals, illegal immigrants, and tourists
USED goods are not taxed, so used cars, used clothing, etc.
People who are actually spending at the poverty level effectively pay no tax, because of the monthly checks. As you spend more, you pay more taxes. NOTE: this is only if you spend more, you can still earn a lot of money and spend very little of it to avoid paying taxes
Noncitizens pay the most taxes, because they're not getting the monthly checks
Is it good or bad? 🤷♂️
Will it pass the Congress and get signed into law? 😂😂😂 You're more likely to see a snowflake in hell.
Increasing everyone's pay 30-50% while increasing taxes on all goods 30% would just punish all foreign goods while massively boosting exports due to not having any taxes associated with goods being exported. It would immediately raise the prices of all electronics but if you're making $60,000 a year and you don't have to pay $20,000 in taxes, I don't believe a 30% increase on your funko pop budget will make a dent.
Reminds me of all those cancel Obamacare votes. I don’t see this passing in the Senate or the pedo signing it. They should focus on what they can do. tie up the purse strings.
Not disagreeing with you, but why does it hit the poorest the hardest? Wouldn't it hit the middle class because they have a little more money in their bank account to spend on non-essentials?
When you think about it, any and every tax hits the poor hard. Why? Because they're poor. They do not have anything to buffer them from the unexpected and the unknown. Everything hits the poor the hardest.
how about we just start removing taxes and replace them with nothing?
Roads don't take 50% of your earned income and 20% other ancillary taxes (property tax, sales tax etc etc etc) to build.
So a $54,000 truck means I pay $12,420.00 in tax… Yeah, NO.
Not exactly. Truck manufacturers, no longer having to pay income taxes, will adjust prices accordingly. An equilibrium will be found. You probably bought a truck in the past and paid just as much to the government, but you never thought about it because it was done behind the scenes with complicated IRS compliance b.s.
What I want to see is all the damn hidden taxes taken out. Taxes on top of taxes. Scrap everything. We pay taxes, and pay for people's taxes that they have paid. The entire system is a con.
Now, we all know this will never pass. Maybe try in two years.
Agreed... and think of it, it's all a fraud anyway - they don't need to tax us if they can just print new money to infinity.
Sure they will.
I'm curious what you mean by this?
You have more faith in truck manufacturers than I do.
By not paying Income Taxes though, the bar for entry is presumably lowered, making room for more competition in that market. Assuming capitalist principles still apply, it's a race to the bottom on prices, and the vendor who provides the best service for the lowest cost wins.
And I assume this doesn't include the local sales taxes.
We had roads and lots of them before 1913.
The problem with this is that even if people pay the same rate, taxation "hurts" those already established and wealthy less than those who aren't. Taxation will never be "fair" even if you make the rate people pay the same, in fact that is the quickest way to make it completely unfair. The issue here though is that if you try to make people pay various different rates based on how much they have or make, that too is not fair. So how do you make it fair? Making the rate equal isn't fair, likewise having different rates isn't fair. Is it even possible for taxation to be "truly fair" for everybody? Honestly, I don't think it is.
All true. If you make $50k a year, this VAT tax hurts a hell of a lot more than if you make $500k. They'd collect more in taxes from the hood because spinnin rims than they're collecting now via the international robbery service. That's a whole sector not contributing anything whatsoever.
But at least here you hsbr control, you don't have to buy that car or you can buy a cheaper one
Exactly, I’d rather be taxed on what I wanted to buy than taxed on what I make and buy regardless.
That's exacting what I've heard, but also heard it would be more like 15%. In addition once currency is gold back they expect prices to fall to the 1950's level.
So the pople who want this "fair" tax say everything's okay, go back to sleep, prices are going to drop to 1955 level.
Oh, sure, I believe that wholeheartedly. Doesn't everybody?
Got news for ya....prices of goods and services never go down.
Honestly if this thing passes I see bartering being a huge thing again.
This isn't quite correct. What happens with the Fair Tax is you get a monthly "prebate" from the Government, which is based on the Federal Poverty Level. This means, you're still paying the taxes at the retailer, but the Government has already given you the funds to pay for those taxes, so it "balances out". If you spend money on necessities at a retailer, which goes above what the Government deems to be your basic needs, then you're still paying Sales Taxes.
How about refunding me my tax dollars that I sent to Ukraine that McCarthy voted for?
And replace it with an across the board tax rate of 23% for all purchases. Though I have heard from other media sources “Essentials” up to a certain dollar amount can be purchased tax free.
Though what was defined as “essential” was not defined in the sources I’ve read.
Disagree there are so many damn taxes it would be cheaper in the end
"...it has to be only on non-essentials."
And who gets to define "non-essential?"
Right. The same people who'll be collecting the tax.
The same parasites that defined essential and non-essential workers during the lockdowns.
You recently controlled the House, the Senate, and had Trump in the White House.
And you did not do this.
This is worthless posturing.
EDIT: The "you" is Republican leadership, not anons. I should have been clearer about that.
Go back to Reddit
To me it looks like he is being a realist. How would this pass?
Key word,,, "you"... Not us or we = Troll
Not at all. I believe this is a typical swamp creature tactic. Make bold moves that have no chance of success to make it appear the politicians are on the side of their voters. AKA dog and pony...
I can see that too, but I still read between the lines on the type of language used.
I think when th OP said you he meant McCarthy or the GOP leadership. I don't think the OP meant you as an us/them statement.
Yes. I should have made it clearer, and that's on me.
Welp, I've been wrong before. I just called it the way I saw it.
Exactly--this comes off to me like "Look at me, voters! I'm DOING SHIT!"
Instead of actually accomplishing anything.
In a vacuum, the bill is great. But with Biden to veto it?
In the timeframe from the new Congress (a couple weeks ago) up to at least the ‘24 election, I feel that a big part of The Great Awakening will be…
“Sometimes you can’t TELL the public the truth. YOU MUST SHOW THEM.” - Q
If our side continually pumps out logical, America First policies that the public is overwhelmingly in favor of, and the Uniparty continues to quash/veto those policies, it will show the public. Yes, the sleeping masses haven’t paid attention to this in the past, but it’s different now; people are waking up, paying attention, and a newly freed Twitter is enlightening the sheep while MSM is dying more by the day.
I guess that's reasonable.
Still bugs me why they didn't push this when Trump was in the Oval Office, though.
But I guess every part of the plan has a reason. Let's see.
Dear dumbass, Covid + Cares Act for Covid cost $3-4Trillion....NOT Trump's fault. His economy was ROCKING.
You support LESS of Trump economics and MORE shutdowns/globalist theft-by-panic. You are the last thing anybody needs...unless they need more global socialism and baby sandwiches.
MUCH IN THIS THREAD IS INCORRECT.
I'm holding a copy of "The FairTax Book" from 2005, signed by authors Neal Boortz and former congressman John Linder.
I don't know exactly what Kevin McCarthy has proposed or how it may differ, but many of these concerns/questions are fully addressed in the original book.
If you're interested in 'The Fair Tax', please find and read 'The FairTax Book'. It's an excellent plan as designed.
This is the way to go.
The FairTax Book Hardcover
FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics Paperback
The FairTax movement had trailblazers. The plan was developed by competent people and publicly debated. Those raising objections now should review the debates during development for more information.
it would never pass the senate to many chipmunk nutz and rinos there ...then the potato would be told not to sign it...unless they stuck a little girl scout to it
Was there a tax before the IRS? Get your money somewhere else losers!
no more than 10% and it includes all the State and Local taxes collected by every municipality - let them ALL collapse under the weight of their own greed. How many folks decided to collect money from other people by incorporating county lands into a city so they could implement taxes? That needs to end. A lot of cities can just retired themselves and let people keep their own money. Also fuel taxes for roads: one true flat tax.
Would it really eliminate the income tax, or just repackage it?
Removing individual income tax is a great idea, however what McCarthy has created is far too broad of a brush stroke for anyone to really bite.
It's really a 30% tax on everything that everyone buys, which is stupidly high. It also still hits low and middle income super hard. I think it should be a straight 15% on durable goods and services, with a much lower tax (1%) on food, pharmacy items, and household supplies.
Poor people and those who are on strict budgets (people just trying to get by feeding their families) won't feel much of a pinch at all. Upper-middle income and especially rich people who tend to buy a lot of expensive shit will pay more as a byproduct.
I honestly think the Federal Gov would rake in more money doing it this way, as opposed to ripping money out of people's paychecks. The tax system as it is today can be super gamed... but there is no escaping the sales tax at the register.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/25/text
(14) TAXABLE PROPERTY OR SERVICE.—
“(A) GENERAL RULE.—The term ‘taxable property or service’ means—
“(i) any property (including leaseholds of any term or rents with respect to such property) but excluding—
“(I) intangible property, and
“(II) used property, and
“(ii) any service (including any financial intermediation services as determined by section 801).
“(B) SERVICE.—For purposes of subparagraph (A), the term ‘service’—
“(i) shall include any service performed by an employee for which the employee is paid wages or a salary by a taxable employer, and
“(ii) shall not include any service performed by an employee for which the employee is paid wages or a salary—
“(I) by an employer in the regular course of the employer’s trade or business,
“(II) by an employer that is a not-for-profit organization (as defined in section 706),
“(III) by an employer that is a government enterprise (as defined in section 704), and
“(IV) by taxable employers to employees directly providing education and training.
So does this mean there will be no tax on work for pay?
One needs a lawyer to understand these bills.
TAXATION IS THEFT!!!!
This starts a dialog and exposes how much money the IRS is stealing from us.
People will start asking questions. I don't pay that in income tax. Why do they need so much?
How about we make all taxes voluntary and see if Dems pony up
The feds have no right to tax us. Period. All of this comes from profound ignorance of the laws of our land, the supreme law of our land.
Interesting; I need to dig just a little bit into this. Pretty much any tax from the government is wrong. Of course, they can dun everyone with a sales tax.......Thanks.
In the Philippines probably less than half the workers pay payroll taxes. Cash jobs abound. Mostly professionals such as police, teachers, government, and corporate. They have a VAT of 12%, but for most things you don't notice it because something that costs 100 say, the tax is already included. So its 100 not 112.
Many people have micro businesses where they sell things and they buy @ retail with the tax and mark up a little. The further from town centre the more the markup. A bottle of rum that sells for 125 at a grocery would be 135 at edge of town and 145-150 in the boonies. Very hard to buy wholesale anything. Some stores cater to these micro businesses, but are only around 1% cheaper than a regular grocer.
Grandstanding with zero chance of passage.
Must repeal the 16th first, or simultaneously; or else the fedgov will soak us for the income tax AND the sales tax.
In the future, taxes will beautifully used in ways to preserve and grow all the systems they drain.
Everyone gets a new beginning. If you can't find happiness in an all happy 7niverse.
This is the perfect plan. Yes, things will cost more.. but in the long run, the markets will adjust. What will really happen is that the ultra rich will now be paying a LOT more for their 'Toys' For example, buying a $10k eyeglass case will now put an additional $2,300 in the 'coffers' Dining out for the super wealthy will cost them more, but they won't even notice it since spending $500 on lunch is already no big deal to them. And on and on and on..
The only objection I have would be for regular groceries, like bread, milk, meat. They should have some essentials that would be exempt. Make it a 'Luxury Tax'. No matter what, it will be a boon for small businesses who get taxed to death at every turn. A small business comeback is what will save America.
Your concern over exemption for essentials is shared by many and is addressed in the plan. Instead of having a list of non taxed essentials which would likely be subject to political manipulation and would be difficult to administer, they developed what is referred to as a prebate. Under this provision every qualifying individual would be sent a monthly rebate equal to the tax on spending up to the national poverty level. For example, the poverty level for a family of four is $27,500. If the tax is set at 23%, that family of four would qualify for a yearly rebate of $6,325 and would receive a monthly check of $527 to cover the tax on essentials. In essence, they would have an exemption on $27,500 in yearly spending. The poverty rate for a single person is $12,880 and the rebate would be adjusted accordingly but would be for everyone qualifying regardless of income or net worth.
Everyone would be able to determine how much tax they would pay each year simply by adjusting their spending. A novel approach for supposedly free people.
So, if the IRS is abolished....who is going to administer and mail out those prebate checks? Sounds like more bloated bureaucracy and overhead that runs contrary to cutting spending.
It has been some time since I read the proposal but I seem to remember that the states were slated to collect the tax along with their current sales tax and the Social Security Administration would pay the prebate based on valid Social Security Numbers. When you consider elimination of the reporting and tracking of income by individuals, employers, financial institutions, charities, as well as government at all levels, you would very likely have less bureaucracy.
I doubt this has a chance of becoming law for the simple reason that the individual income tax is more for control of the population than raising revenue. Even if it resulted in me paying more, I would support it for the simple benefit of having privacy in and control of my own financial life.
Thank you for the additional info. I try to come from a point of logic, rather than paranoia. This is not the first time that a 'value added' or 'luxury tax' has been proposed. And who do you think are going to be the most adamantly against it?
Doesn't take a genius. Most don't know there was no income tax AT ALL, until 1913.
As to those most adamantly against it I would speculate that would be those who benefit most from the current system, including those who, for whatever reason pay very little or no tax.
"This is the perfect plan. Yes, things will cost more.. but in the long run, the markets will adjust."
Sorry, I don't share your rosy faith.
as is your right as a free citizen :)
Doesn't this make it easier for ESG? Suspicious.
22% is pretty steep, my wife and I will have paid 6,600 (Aprox) this year on income of 80K (Aprox) and we have no writeoffs at all since we rent and no kids.
What pisses me off is My SS is taxed, my crap job is taxed, my wife's job is taxed. My salary was 8k over the cap of 19,500 so they will be taking 4K back from that this year. They also deduct SS and medicare from my pay.
Still even at that its less than 22% VAT tax if you spend all you earn.
The benefits are to people who are able to spend less... If you can spend only half of your income on taxable things you are at 11%
The last stage of a Dead Nation: loot the treasury.
So much misinformation here! Let me explain briefly how the Fair Tax works
Some benefits:
Is it good or bad? 🤷♂️
Will it pass the Congress and get signed into law? 😂😂😂 You're more likely to see a snowflake in hell.
Increasing everyone's pay 30-50% while increasing taxes on all goods 30% would just punish all foreign goods while massively boosting exports due to not having any taxes associated with goods being exported. It would immediately raise the prices of all electronics but if you're making $60,000 a year and you don't have to pay $20,000 in taxes, I don't believe a 30% increase on your funko pop budget will make a dent.
Reminds me of all those cancel Obamacare votes. I don’t see this passing in the Senate or the pedo signing it. They should focus on what they can do. tie up the purse strings.
Please god
Can someone eli5 how the article got their math? How is 23% of 100, 130?
Not disagreeing with you, but why does it hit the poorest the hardest? Wouldn't it hit the middle class because they have a little more money in their bank account to spend on non-essentials?
Seniors on a fixed income can barely afford what they have now.
I guess it comes down to what is deemed essential vs. non-essential.
When you think about it, any and every tax hits the poor hard. Why? Because they're poor. They do not have anything to buffer them from the unexpected and the unknown. Everything hits the poor the hardest.