Not a troll post but a genuine question. If the Bible states a rich man can never get into heaven, and Trump and his family are rich, but if they end up successfully saving the country from the Satanists and help restore and protect Christianity in America, will they still not get into heaven? I don't see them giving up their money anytime soon, and they kind of DO need that money in order to run for POTUS and do a lot of the things they need to get done, not to mention protect themselves, so it does beg the question.
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It doesn't say rich can't enter heaven.
It just says its harder for them.
The rich can help people more than poor people,as they have the means.....
Exactly..Bible also say do not curse the rich..and Jesus said with men it’s impossible, but with God ALL things are possible.
Exactly, Pbman2.
Many of the rich -- most, I suspect, if we're talking the Ultra Rich -- are callous and more than a few are psychopathic.
But certainly not all.
Trump, Musk, and a number of others are clearly people of good will despite personality quirks that help them build fortunes.
And then there are those who simply inherit wealth -- who don't need the drive and the less-empathic view of others that often help the very rich become so rich.
Thank you! It says it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get to Heaven. Luke 18:25 KJV For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. https://tbibles.com/xuUQ
My church actually did a study not that long ago on this passage.
Part was a discussion which I've forgotten the details of, but essentially said that, the eye of a needle was NOT a reference to a sewing needle. I wish I remembered, but it was more like an arch or doorway, that would be difficult for a camel to go through (as big as they are). The example was not to say it is impossible for wealthy to make it to heaven, but that the wealthy often have priorities on other things than salvation. Other things other than Christ or their fellow man.
Locally, I know several millionaires that are some of the nicest and most generous people you've ever met.
Several of them sponsor local programs to help the needy, children's programs, missions, etc. They are businessmen who genuinely give back to the community, and give much of their wealth anonymously to the local Christian college, Christian schools, churches, etc.
I would not be presumptuous enough to say they won't receive grace.
IIRC there was a scholar that taught me that one of the gates into Jerusalem was called the needle (or the specific Hebrew phrase used in that passage) that was incredibly hard to get camels through that were loaded up. Often needing to remove lots of items off the packs to be able to get through.
So the message was supposed to be that holding onto things, instead of focusing on the goal of getting where you needed to be, was the problem & that many wealthy would refuse to shed things/materialism to gain access through the gates of heaven.
Not impossible, but lots of proper balancing & careful maneuvering, even after unloading excess.
edit: u/StormSailor I hope this pings you. The context of this discussion may help you understand. I really wish I could recall more of the details of that lesson.
Nice work, I believe you are correct on this.
Like most things, the original intent has been skewed by time and ne'er-do-wells.
Was hoping someone would bring this up. Used to believe it was a physical impossibility. Nope, just slow and hard
IMHO, money is an amplifier. If you are an ass, money will multiply that. If you are kind, generous and compassionate- money will amplify that to
Faith + 0 = Salvation
For ye are all the sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mcgee_j_vernon/eBooks/faith-plus-zero-equals-salvation.cfm
Faith the size of a mustard seed....✨
Amen to That.
I like your equation, dog.
Too often, though, I have the impression that mere intellectual belief is the internal definition that (some) Christians have for "Faith."
But it's more than that, as you know. There's a feeling, emotional component, and it's really the important part. This is why I believe it's so hard for many, and impossible for some, to really have faith even when they profess (and even believe) that they do. Opening up to feeling, when one is largely shut off to it, isn't easy or trivial.
That's why there are so many self-professed Christians in the world who have trouble even acting as if they "love their neighbors." I grew up in neighborhoods where plenty of people who went to church regularly were bullies or just obnoxious to others -- just too much emotional damage (and thus the importance of Jesus' teachings about not offending children). It soured me on Christianity for a long time.
I did a search with Brave's AI, which brings both a summary and numerous links to sources. Here are the first two paragraphs of the summary --
"Opening up to feeling, when one is largely shut off to it, isn't easy or trivial."
...exactly...
Hebrews 11:1-7
King James Version
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Nice set of verses.
I think we are in a similar situation, and it's not just a long rainstorm and a flood coming.
I don't know if we're really attending to all that's on the horizon. At least part of what is coming has never been seen before, and the results are impossible to predict.
An exciting time, and terrifying all at once.
"An exciting time, and terrifying all at once."
...tis exhilarating indeed...
Hmm. Intellectual belief and willingness to repent aren't strictly separate things, either. Humans are rationalising creatures, and self-deceit is often a key component of moral evil. I've found this a recurring theme among all the unhinged personalities I've seen during the awakening.
Absolutely! Self-deceit is at the core of neurosis, and people who are doing evil are not emotionally healthy, that's for sure.
If you had true faith you wouldn't feel the need to store up worldly wealth.
True. The popeymcpopeface could learn from you.
The problem is when your riches become your god. If you read Matthew 19:23-24 you'll find that Jesus says it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter heaven. But! If you push on to Matthew 19:26 you hear, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" It will take God working in the rich man's life, just as he works in everyone's life. We may not have unlimited cash at our disposal, but we have things that separate us from God too. He meets us where we are. John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. God wants everyone reconciled to him, including the rich man.
"Begging the Question" is a logical fallacy that has nothing to do with "It makes you wonder why" as you used it here.
Also, your premise is off. You are claiming things said in the Bible that were never said in the Bible.
Theology pro here:
**The notion that a rich man can never get into heaven has been flattened and stretched like a cheap Walmart tortilla. Jesus was not saying that anyone with a fat bank account is automatically fitted for the Lake of Fire like a custom pair of asbestos flip flops. He was saying that riches have a peculiar way of turning a man into a spiritual pack mule who insists on dragging all his gear through the narrow gate. You cannot squeeze a camel through a needle hole, but you can certainly unload the camel.
The issue is not the money in the wallet but the wallet in the heart. Abraham was rich. Job was rich. David was rich. And yet God seemed perfectly willing to let them into the heavenly neighborhood without checking their net worth at the gate. What God will not tolerate is idolatry, and idolatry can come in the form of money, fame, votes, a MAGA hat, a seminary degree, or the Instagram account of a self-appointed prophet.
So can Trump, or anyone with the GDP of a small republic, enter the kingdom? Absolutely. The real question is whether he bows the knee to Christ. God is not impressed by net worth, campaign rallies, or the ability to trigger CNN on command. Those are political questions. Salvation is a lordship question.
If someone ends up being an instrument to shove back the encroachment of the lunatic fringe that wants to turn the country into a combination of Babylon and Burning Man, then great. God has used pagan kings, farm boys, shepherd poets, and one notable talking donkey to accomplish his purposes. But being used by God to accomplish something in history is not the same thing as being welcomed by God into eternity. Cyrus was used by God. Nebuchadnezzar was used by God. Pharaoh was used by God. Only one of those guys ended his story on a high note.
So if Trump does good for the country, praise God for the good. If he is saved, praise God for the grace. But his bank account will not keep him out of heaven any more than your spare change will get you in. The issue is always the same. Who is your King, and whose crown do you kiss?**
Thank you, this is informative and truly surprising to read. I was always under the impression that rich people had to give away all their money, no exceptions and no questions asked. I didn't realize so many of His followers like David were rich.
It's believe that it's more of a spiritual thing, because God wants to bless His people with overwhelming abundance right? If you let greed and money be the God of your life than Jesus Christ, I believe that's where it would fall into that category.
This is one of the sins that Sodom and Gammorah were guilty of like excess and gluttony, they were also uncaring in their behavior which explains why they were also depraved not just sexually but as utter scum.
But think of it like this for example, if God wants to bless His people more than they know what to do with it. It's a common misconception that He says to be poor and in poverty, that's something our enemies and the Devil want to happen for us.
If you read the Bible there's actually many blessings and promises God has made and promised to those obedient to Him even when they're not perfect, take King David or Joseph for example. Their lives weren't all easy, yet God has been with them throughout the journey.
God brought them from almost nothing to great power and wealth. It's essentially His as everything belongs to God but He gives it to those who are pleasing onto Him and that will not misuse what's been given.
Now can we take physical things with us into Heaven, not at all. But will it be left behind for the next generations to come? Absolutely, The Word says even a righteous man leaves an inheritance for his family. So what their ancestors did while living here on Earth, it was not done so in vain.
I think you got it wrong.
Bible says it's easier for a Camel to go through the eye of the needle than a rich man.. it’s an allegory.. because back then, to enter this "eye of needle" alley, you have to strip and unburden the loads of a camel to go through.. same with man.. if a man has a lot of material attachments he would be too “heavy” to ascend, i.e if a man cannot let go of things or even loved ones (his treasures) from this world.
But then Jesus also said “With man it’s impossible, with God all things are possible”. And God has mercy on us all. Understand? I think you gotta look at the deeper meaning. Like if someone said “kill 2 birds with one stone” and someone from the future not familiar with the saying may think they literally have to kill 2 birds. I think it’s the same with the red heifer.. and idiots literally think they have to get a red heifer even if it’s genetically modified.
Excellent explanation.
The answer is in John 3:16.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The only way you can get into heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
nope
The only way to Heaven is by accepting the gift of righteousness offered to us by the Son of God. He died so that we could live.
This is probably one of THE most misconstrued verses in the Bible. For reference the verse you're speaking of is Matthew 19:24: 24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
The "eye of a needle" here, like most things in the Bible, is not a literal needle eye, but a metaphor based on what would be easily understandable to the people at the time it was written, while maintaining its meaning and understandability over time so long as it wasn't misconstrued by bad actors and ignorant masses (meant in the literal definition and not as an insult).
The "eye of a needle" was a nickname for a VERY narrow gate that most people used to enter or exit Jerusalem where it was VERY difficult to get through as a person in a timely manner, much less someone with a camel.
The point of this verse is revealed in the next two verses. This is where people mess up, Matther 19:24 by itself is VERY misleading and only gives you PART of the message, with or without context of the true meaning of the needle name. The full verse (Matthew19:24-26) goes like this:
24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
As you can see, with the full three verses that were MEANT to go together, you get the full context and message in a timeless manner, regardless of if you know the context behind the needle name. That being, regardless of if something is "hard" or "impossible" for a man to do, NOTHING is impossible for God to do.
Aa rich man may not be able to enter the gate by himself (a feat of great difficulty in ancient Jerusalem), or camel might not be able to enter through the eye of a needle (difficult in the case of the gate, and literally impossible in the case of an actual needle eye), but God can do all of this, and make it happen for those that believe in him and have faith in him since NOTHING is impossible for him.
It's a different topic, but the rich young ruler parable is another one people will point to about "God doesn't want people to be rich", which is also false. In his case, God wanted to be number one in his life, but the rich young ruler loved money, status, etc. MORE than God and wasn't willing to give it up for him.
Basically, it was a test, similar to Abraham and Isaac. God asks you to faithfully give something up just to ensure he's number one in your life. That doesn't mean he'll ACTULLY make you do it, but he wants you to have faith in him to start the process.
If you take a look at the Bible you can VERY clearly see God doesn't hate rich people and that rich people make it to heaven. Off the top of my head, Daniel, David, Solomon, Basically EVERYONE in Abraham's direct line that was named and had a story recorded about them, not to mention several people during Jesus' time that were wealthy enough to have servants and households, where he would heal their servants for them in their faith.
Heck, Solomon is widely considered a candidate for THE WEALTHIEST man to ever live on the face of the earth. Daniel, at one point, basically controlled egypt by proxy and all of its riches. Job's whole story is about God allowing the devil to tempt a man who had everything in the world, including vast wealth, and after he had lost everything and STILL had faith, God restored everything he had lost and then increased it several fold (obviously including his wealth).
TL;DR: God doesn't hate wealth or rich people, that's a modern lie created by intentionally misconstruing Bible verses to fit an agenda.
I am assuming you are referring to:
“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)
If read literally in modern context, this would be taken as it is impossible because a camel could never fit though a needle. But historically, there were small gates in walled cities to the side of the main large gates called “the eye of the needle”. These gates could be used for entering the city when the main gates were closed. These were often used by traders who showed up in the middle of the night when gates were closed. Due to the small size of the gate, camels would have to be unloaded of all their goods and crawl through on their knees.
So this passage historically is saying that a rich man must put aside his worldly possessions (cargo) and get on his knees (humbling himself before God). So this is not to say it is impossible but a task in putting God before everything worldly.
Nailed it.
I think he makes up for it by being generous to others. We don't hear about all the good deeds he does.
Deeds are worthless for salvation.
I hear you. My comment was to offset him being wealthy. His salvation is between him and God, not me.
Many people start quoting all other kinds of Bible verses as if to say "ignore this statement made by Jesus".
It's a very heavy statement. Not one to be dismissed so easily IMO.
We Americans all live more luxurious lives than Rockefeller lived a hundred years ago. So I don't think it's something to not brush off.
Revelation 3:17 "Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked"
God is stating that money blinds people to their spiritual condition. Wealth is such a distraction it is difficult for a person to self reflect and realize their need to seek out God. A person may use money to attempt to satisfy all their needs —everything that the world has to offer; possessions, sex, power... Everything but spiritual fulfillment.
Money isn't bad; it's the LOVE of money that corrupts a person. God wants His followers to live abundant lives, but He does not want His followers to be destroyed by it. With the help of the Holy Sprit He can teach you how to use it responsibly, as a means to bless others, and to keep it from becoming an idol. An idol is something that you put above your relationship with God. He will test you before blessing you with more, because he wants to protect you.
Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God"..."[26] Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"
When you are being led by God, the Holy Spirit, He can give you the strength to overcome greed, and to keep it from becoming an idol.
The main issue is found in the Parable of the Sower, which you can read here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013&version=NIV
Jesus explains that wealth can choke a person's ability to follow God: [Matthew 13:22] "The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
God wants us to live abundant lives, but He will test you and refine you before entrusting you with more.
From copilot: The "Eye of the Needle" refers to a gate in Jerusalem that is mentioned in biblical texts. It is said that a camel could not pass through this gate unless it stooped down and had all its baggage removed, symbolizing the difficulty for the rich to enter the kingdom of God. This gate was designed to allow pedestrians to pass while preventing marauding bandits on camels from entering. The phrase has been interpreted as a metaphor for the challenges faced by those who are wealthy in their spiritual journey. The gate's existence and significance have been discussed in various biblical contexts, emphasizing its cultural and historical importance.
It's more about the love of money and things a lot of rich people do to obtain it.
You can still have money but help and make it into the kingdom of heaven. But you can't love your money more than you love God. You have to use your money to help people, if not that's moving your money more than God.
I don't know how but after MOASS I plan to use a lot of it to help people. Not just donating it to NGOs because all of us here know how that goes.
It will be work, not just wealth giving that will help people. I'll be retired but will still have to work. Kinda like Trump is doing. He even said it himself. He could be enjoying the fruits of his labor and skills, instead he is helping the world be free of the evil that currently runs the world.
It doesn't say what you've been 'told', somewheres. “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23–24; also Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25)
in the parable of the rich man and Jesus’ teaching around it the point is that wealth can create a false sense of security that blinds a person to their spiritual dependence on God. Jesus stresses that riches often trap people in self sufficiency, making it difficult to embrace the humility required to enter God’s kingdom. the image of a camel through a needle’s eye emphasizes how radically wealth can distort priorities yet Jesus also insists that what is impossible for humans, breaking free from such attachment, is possible with God so the parable ultimately confronts people with the question of whether they serve their possessions or something higher.
It doesn't mean that.
It means "rich in thought"...
In other words, you need to STFU because "The kingdom of heaven is within you" but if you're rich in thought, you'll never achieve true communion with the Christ in the temple built without human hands because you're mental merry-go-round is drowning it out.
Find the William Donahue channel on YT, goto the videos tab and select oldest. Start there.
u/#catdance
Haha... total fucking faggits
Bu...but... that's not what my dealer/middleman/pastor said it means...
Layers upon layers of superstition and ignorance piled so deep they wouldn't know the truth if it stabbed them in their yambag.
Heaven is hard for the poor. Harder for the rich.
Could you find that verse for me? Cause I've never seen or heard it. I know there are a lot of verses encouraging generosity, humility and living in service, and not worshipping earthly goods but I have never seen a verse that specifically says the rich can not be saved.
It doesn’t say that. Firstly.
Salvation comes when we believe in Jesus and repent. We are saved through grace. Baptism shows a picture of what we have chosen to do. It is our way of sharing our faith with others. We are "buried" to our carnal selves in the likeness of his death, and "raised" to a new life in him in the likeness of his resurrection.
A person who is very rich may have more trouble repenting and yielding to God's plan for their lives, because they may be holding onto their carnal selves too tightly, not wanting to lose any wealth or power. But, they are just as welcome and wanted by God. The question is... "Will they accept the invitation?"
The Bible uses a lot of metaphors. Maybe it doesn't literally mean a wealthy man can't enter heaven.
Maybe if youre rich in evil, like Soros or Cliton, you'll never enter heaven. 🤷♂️
The theme is that no one gets to heaven by their own works, and this story illustrates this. The young man seemed exemplary, keeping the Law, but Christ nevertheless shows him a sin that also caused him to fail to earn heaven. The disciples react with dismay, but then Christ refers to His own death on the cross, which makes it possible for this rich sinner to go to heaven. After all, the death on the cross and resurrection are what Christ refers to when He says that what is impossible for humans is possible for God. Abraham, Jacob, Job, David, etc., were all wealthy people, so wealth in itself is not a sin. Being bound to it is. Every person is a sinner before God and needs Christ.
It all depends on your priorities. You cannot put anything or anyone above God. Many rich people make the acquisition of wealth their main focus, without honoring God. Riches are a blessing to a wise person receiving them, who in turn blesses others with what they have been given.
Proverbs 21:20: The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get.
Luke 6:38: Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full—pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back.
Proverbs 3:9-10: Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the best part of everything you produce. Then he will fill your barns with grain, and your vats will overflow with good wine.
Luke 16:11: And if you are untrustworthy about worldly wealth, who will trust you with the true riches of heaven?
I will continue to believe that The God who made me and died for me knows best where to send this soul. He made it, He knows where to put it in the end. We own nothing, not even our souls.