Scientists Make Breakthrough Discovery After Analyzing Cloth ‘Jesus Was Buried In’
(www.breitbart.com)
Future Proves Past
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Believers don't need a cloth to believe, they have the Holy Spirit!
This. If no likenesses are allowed… how did this one slip by? And allegedly supernaturally as well.
We didn’t make it.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with "likeness not being allowed" I think you're thinking about the false religion of Islam unless you're speaking of idols?? Here is the scripture regarding this farce however.
They saw Jesus Christ so the logical and truthful conclusion is the Son of God is not God. God is the Father and Christ the Son. God doesn't lie so man is the problem
I John 3:2 - "...it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as he is."
Such is the glory of God that He is unapproachable by all mortal beings. Because He is infinite and eternal He is incomprehensible by mortal man. Seeing Jesus' mortal body is not the same as his now eternal being -Revelation 19:12-13
Jesus very much is God. John 1:1-5; 14 is evident of such.
You are right God doesn't lie. And the whole of scripture put together is evident of this.
Who said no likenesses are allowed? Not Christians. St. Luke painted the first icon of the Mother of God. After that, icons have been painted of saints and Jesus.
God did.
Exodus 20:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image" in this statement God is referring to us. God did not place any restrictions on himself. When Veronica wipes the face of Jesus. Jesus left his image upon her veil. So it is not much of stretch for Jesus to leave an image upon his burial cloth.
I have been interested in the shroud for a long time and while trying to reconcile this exact command, what you said is exactly what I came to believe. It's impossible to know for sure if this relic is infact thee cloth but I want to believe such a thing exists.
He can we can’t.
The verse simply means don't make idols to worship, no matter who or what it is.
Note this verse occurs 12 chapters before the Israelites do exactly that by making a golden calf. So this context lends to the interpretation of 20:4-6.
What??? That is not a reference to Jesus. Yeah, you are WAY WAY off on this one. Way off.
It talks about a "carved image" or a statue, as we know it
Don't worship the stars, planets, the roman gods, etc. Don't worship the fallen angels in chains below the earth, or diamonds, precious metals (i.e. gold , silver, aka money). This has always been my interpretation.
.
Though having said that, I'm not very keen on likeneses of Jesus that have been tradition in the US. Nothing inherently wrong per se, just how you treat it. Likewise, if you want a more accurate portrait, it might be closer to have a picture of Jamie Farr than the traditional European Jesus imagery.
...just sayin'.
Except that Roman letters refer to Jesus as fair-haired and light-eyed
What? You've never heard of the shroud that Jesus was buried in, and resurrected? The Shroud of Turin?
That's cool, but He also noted that many were drawn to Him because of the signs (miracles). He did not send Thomas away...
Another interesting analysis - scientists have discovered the image in the Shroud is actually 3-dimensional. https://shroud3d.com/introduction/3d-studies-of-the-shroud-of-turin-history/
And we STILL have no way to replicate this
(like the Tilma of Guadalupe)
I remember during the New Atheism battles, the 1980s research was used to lie about it. Looks like they were wrong.
The testing from the 80's was a carbon based test. The shroud survived a fire from the middle ages. It was my belief at the time, it was dating to that event.
Burnt smoke and carbon and all.
Correct. They even discovered traces of pollen within the fibers of the shroud that could ONLY have come from the area around Jerusalem.
God works in my life everyday and Holy Spirit is with me always. Even without any proof I can feel and know God is with me.
That's great! Congratulations! How wonderful for you that you can proclaim that proudly! But those of us who are Prodigal Sons probably outnumber you, and thank God for His mercy in accepting everyone back into the kingdom with high celebration.
Did you know that many holy people were allowed to be persecuted by Satan and felt the absence of the Lord in these tests and tribulations? They accepted suffering, for their faith was immense, and they offered it for the reparation of sins and the salvation of sinners. I'm weak and know that I could not be challenged that hard and come through, and an grateful to God that He has not given me more than I can handle.
Amen. "Jesus said to Thomas, " Thomas you believe because you've seen, but blessed are those who have not seen yet believe"John 20:29
...
Oopsie, did we just prove that everything 'carbon dated' is wrong? If they can't even accurately date something a couple thousand years old, how in TF can they accurately date things back millions or billions of years ??
That's actually been proven a long time ago. Carbon dating is based on a bunch of unjustifiable assumptions, and real physicists have come out since it's inception to show it's hogwash. But The Narrative (tm) must be persevered, so their papers are buried.
No one knows how much carbon of each isotope each item started with, so guessing how much decayed over time is a crapshoot at best.
Wow! saving this comment
"Oopsie, did we just prove that everything 'carbon dated' is wrong?"
No.
I bet it's bs science
Yes, they did. Again.
If you believe this story the only thing it's proving is they tested a contaminate. Like smoke from a fire. We know the age of carbon 14 based on a direct comparison of carbon-14 levels in the sample with tree ring or cave-deposit carbon-14 levels of a known age. Unless you have evidence tree rings get more or less than 1 ring a year your argument against it isn't valid.
If you take a 2 dimensional cloth and wrap it around a 3 dimensional head, you do not end up with photoesque image as presented on the shroud. The image width would be stretched giving a distorted image that looks nothing like a photograph.
100% correct. What is on the shroud could only have been a projection created from a massive burst of light, powerful enough to instantly scorch a 3-D impression. There is no other way that image could have been created.
The image you see here is not what it actually looks like. They have edited it to make it presentable to the public.
https://artist-reference.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/3dsk-gallery-head-texture.jpg
Catholics have kept relics like the shroud for centuries.
The shroud was looted from Constantinople in 1204.
Turin is in Italy; so then the question becomes "how did it land in the hands of the schismatic East?"
I read a story about it being sent to King Abgar of Edessa. Here’s a link.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgar_V
I read somewhere it was secreted within one of the city walls of Edessa until an earthquake ca. 8th century opened the wall. There’s a long-standing connection between Edessa and the Mandylion. (AKA shroud). There are 10th century Icons showing it. It’s the shroud folded in 4ths. The top layer has the face.
Another interesting and related article is the Suderium (face cloth) of Oviedo. The stains match those of the shroud. It’s also mentioned in the Gospel.
One assumes that during the centuries of dispute over that city and area in general Rome (Constantinople) would have seized it to keep it from the Sassanids. There are supposed mentions of it in records from 10th century in Hagia Sophia the Imperial Church at Constantinople. The Franks took it with them (along with much much else) when they left Constantinople in 1250.
And please don’t get too worked up about schisms. If ever there was a time to accent what we believe in common, this is it.
I saw the coolest YouTube video on it, from “spacereinstitute” whatever that is. It’s Italian, but dubbed to English, and has the most astounding image analysis I’ve seen in the 10 years I’ve been investigating this stuff. Sorry, but I’m unable to figure out how to give a link, but search for spacereinstitute, it’s an hour well spent.
Aren't we realizing now that the rapture theology (romance) was invented out of whole cloth by the people behind the Schofield reference bible?
Are these the same "scientists" who made a discovery that the Covid-19 mRNA "vaccine" was SAFE AND EFFECTIVE? Just asking.
Clearly not. Those scientists don't believe in God.
I don't believe in coincidences. We have this shroud as evidence of the Resurrection because God wanted us to have it. The image can't be replicated because God made the image. I think the evil one tried to destroy it with fire and failed. If this helps those who do not believe, to then believe in God, that is all that is important.
I get the same feeling seeing this as I did when I was child. Overwhelmed with love
It’s a fake… Scripture is clear…. Two clothes. Also Christ’s hair was collar length just as He taught.
Scripture also states he was beaten beyond recognition and his beard was torn out. Now I see a full beard so based on that alone…. This is easily verifiable. Not rocket science.
I don’t recall the Bible ever mentioning Jesus hair length
Cor 14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
Staying out of the vote war that seems to be happening here just to say that collar length hair is still pretty long for a lot of men.
You’re fine. Others I worry about
Uhm, no. Nature does no such thing.
It will happily teach you that fire is hurtie-hot, that you can't breathe underwater, and that not all members of the opposite sex want to play sexy-time with you, but it is pretty quiet on hair length. YMMV
Because nature is a poor translation, if we go by nature then the men are always the pretty ones..lion manes , peacock colors, longhorns, colorful fish..the word Paul used is more like social norm or custom not natural order
It is Paul, his own bias as a bald man, and having a hard time letting go of OT/Judaic law style subjugation. Like he might as well have said "well guys, remember when the big man said we can eat pork and shrimp now....well, nah, I just um..heard from Him that they are still off the menu!"
That was Paul putting his own bias in. Which he does several times through his writings
Sorry; could you expand on that? Which scripture are you referring to?
What is the teaching regarding hair length? Is it in scripture?
John for burial cloth. Paul for hair length.
Thank you for identifying the book; do you know the actual scriptures?
Here’s one Corinthians 11:5-16.
Yeah, sorry, it does not scan.
Also John isn't Corinthians
I’m aware. There are examples outside of the two mentioned.
This? 1 Corinthians 11:5-6 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.
Which verses specifically?
See above answer to Rainspa.
The scripture is clear: "They will see his face" - Revelations 22:4
We are here for the end of days.
It's an end of an age, not world.
It you could get the name of the book right you would be better at Interpreting the content of it.
Revelation. Singular.
Oh woops I added an S. No fucking clue where you managed to pull "world" from what I wrote besides your own ass.
My point being that if you get the name of the book wrong you're probably going to get the contents of the book wrong as well. You didn't just accidentally add an S. You thought it was Revelations. You were clearly wrong. This should make you question what else you are potentially wrong about if you could be wrong about something so basic.
The end of days referred to the end of the age. This was written before the destruction of Rome in 70 AD. Jesus said this generation shall not pass till all these things take place. That generation has passed. Those things took place.
Must Christians these days have been taught or interpret that as the end of the world where they will be yeeted up to heaven In a pre-tribulation rapture. The problem with that is the tribulation already happened around 70 AD with the with rums siege and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
And guess who escaped that? Christians that read the signs and fled to the mountains when they saw Rome, the abomination of desolation, surrounding the temple, the holiest of holies.
You are looking to the future for things that have already happened.
You're taking an eschatological position that's only about 200 years old and not the position that the church is held for about 1800 years.
God wins. These verses help give you an idea of that....
As to the expansion of God's kingdom there will be no end.
Sit in my right hand while I make all of your enemies your footstool (That's God saying that to Jesus and that first appears in the Bible more than any other. Arguably God's favorite Bible verse)
Ask of me and I will give you all of the world as your inheritance (again that's God saying that to Jesus. That begs the question, do you think Jesus forgot to ask?)
Book of Revelation is over 40% quotes and references to the Old testament. It was referring to a localized judgment of Jerusalem within the lifetime of Jesus for crucifying their Messiah.
Everything in it lines up perfectly with historic events and secular accounts like the histories of Josephus and others. If you ignore that and try to make it about future events you have to make these ridiculous leaps of logic like lotuses being Apache helicopters and other such silliness.
And you can think the Schofield reference Bible for all of this. That was the first Bible that had eschatological notes in it that was published about 200 years ago. Unfortunately this was the first Bible with footnotes in it that was widely adopted by pastors and seminaries and it spread this fringe teaching called premillennial dispensationalism or darbyism.
Arguably the greatest lie ever injected into the Christian church. Christians aren't fully obeying the great commission and taking Dominion over every sphere of the world and influence from government, business & entertainment. Christ's blood bought it all. Everything. Every single day belongs to Christ. From Christmas, to Easter, to Halloween, to Toyotathon.
The only thing left is final judgment when Christ returns and puts an in to sin and the wicked are removed from the Earth in a fiery judgment just like the parable of the wheat and the tares. In those days it will be just like in the days of Noah. The ark, which was a symbolic prelude of Christ, is who we are safe in while the judgment comes upon those not in Him.
So yes, you have no fucking clue.
I love the way you think! just can't explain it like you did.
Thank you. I've just had solid pastors and teachers and a was really fascinated by the topic and tried to learn everything I could about it.
Blah blah fucking blah. You can't fucking read one sentence. Shut the fuck up.
I just read three. No. In the words of George Washington "Come tax this dick"
You know how some people claim they would rather "laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun"
This is why.
They claim that because without God's grace our natural state is to hate God and to be in open rebellion against Him.
Sin and rebellion are often fun. Antifa has a gay ol time. Gay pride rallies are a hoot if you're into that.
We are not called to be conformed to this world but to Christ and we are told the world will hate us for it
So thank you! Your disapproval means the world to me.
Now do Nordstrom / Nordstroms
If you look at the next verse, Rev 22:5 this is talking about heaven. What it will be like for those who overcome.
I Timothy 6:16 - mortal man cannot see Him. I John 4:12- no one has seen God John 6:46- Jesus says no one has seen God John 1:18- no one has seen God Exodus 33:20 - this is why
Now do Target or Kmart.😉
Hair looks collar length to me from the image given. The minimal details given in the article, they are only talking about one large cloth, but it could very well just be one of the two pieces. We need much more information than what's given, but we should also note that this is HUGE. We're talking about Jesus here, and media is talking proofs. That's a win in my book. Believers don't need it, but this could be the ultimate red pill for the many lost sheep out there.
Hair is much longer than the above pic shows. https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1938934/Jesus-face-AI-Turin-Shroud/amp
Go zoom in on the full body image the article gave, you can see the hair is longer, and matches your link. The tile photo doesn't really show this.
Collar length? Victorian collar, High point collar, corinthian collar, henley collar, mandarin collar?
This is vague and unclear.
I know you are getting hated on, and I appreciate your skepticism especially considering what we are dealing with. Hang in there - and keep an open mind…you may also be wrong :)
The Shroud of Edessa is the Shroud of Turin. Boniface I of Monferatto embezzled it during the sack of Constantinople and transferred it to his vassal Otto de la Roche who was Duke of Athens. That's how it ended up in the hands of the Templars. After the execution of Geoffroy de Charney together with Grand Master Jaques de Molay in Paris, the cloth came into the hands of his nephew and namesake Geoffroy de Charney and became known as the Shroud of Turin. If this were proven, there would be a war over that garment because Russia, Turkey and Greece would reclaim this relic of the highest class. During the sack of Constantinople, the Pope had also anathematized crusaders who embezzled relics.
It’s Christ’s. It’s here for A reason and 1 reason only. Kinda like a security blanket for all of us faithful. Heck I’d lay cuddled with it on a dark stormy night. 😁😁
Nothing has changed since God brought His people out of Egypt. Once Moses was out of their sight for 40 days the people demanded Aaron make them a golden calf to worship. People are always looking for something or a statue of someone to worship. Sad isn't it!
Amen.
We believe and don't need this proof.
Shroud of Turin (meh)
We have the Scriptures, which no prophecy fulfillment or experience can trump.
Nobody should put their faith in anything but God, but the kneejerk hostility toward the shroud of Turin always seems off to me. Why are some people so threatened by the idea of a piece of physical proof remaining? And why do they imply anyone who believes it is genuine is somehow lacking in faith?
I believe that the Shoud has an image of a man with long hair. Jesus did not have long hair. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:14
14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
Do you honestly think he would say that if Jesus had long hair?
There is a large portion of us who are anti Pauline for many reasons big and small and this is one of the small ones. Literally that verse translates to "well yeah lots of guys wear their hair short, and I am bald, so uh if a guy has long hair, well what a loser cause doesn't he see short hair is the norm"
The norms back then and the norms of today are completely different. Jesus blended in with the Jews around him. There was nothing in his appearance to make him stand out. So he would not have had long hair.
Plus the Shroud really is nothing more than an item to worship. As fas as I am concerned it is a huge fake.
I have issues with Paul too. I wonder if he was an infiltrator. We all know the Schofield Bible is wrong, I think many focus on Paul’s message and not enough of the gospels. Friends tell me it’s Satan casting doubt within when I question Paul. So irritating.
Paul didn’t ever meet Jesus.
We don't know that for sure but it is possible. Of course he talked to people that knew Jesus on a day to day basis. Never the less. The norms for Jewish men at the time were what Paul was referring to. Jesus was probably dark skinned,dark eyes and dark hair. We know he had a beard because it was pulled on while he was carrying the cross.
Isaiah 53:2
...“He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him, nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him.” ...
It is reasonable to believe he would not stand out in a crowd of his peers. At least in a physical way. Maybe that is why Judas was payed to point him out to the Romans.
If he had long hair while the people around him did not he would stand out.
I freely admit I could be wrong about this. It dosen't really matter. It is just one more thing for me to question the story of the Shroud.
Just to be clear. I am not referring to a lenght of a mans hair in todays world. That has nothing to do with this converstation. If men want long hair let them have long hair. I know a few guys that would like to have any hair at all. So far I am not one of those. :)
What did they consider long. I believe the Romans had short hair and were beardless. At least this is how they are portrayed to us. And in marble statues. So maybe collar length would have been considered long. Were the Israelites influenced by the Roman fashion? I guess in the big scheme of things it doesn’t really matter.
You have a point. I don't know what was considered long hair. I am not an expert on the Shroud. I have seen a picture of what they thought the image might look like in real life and it showed a man with hair well past his shoulders. It dosen't really matter, except for the fact you gave me an opportunity to dwell on my thinking on the subject a little bit more, Thanks for that
*while Jesus was alive
Fun story: the original carbon dating tested the EDGES of the cloth…it had of course been held by people throughout history, and that’s why it has been falsely posited that it is not the true shroud.