Refrigerant 12, DuPont, the ozone layer scam, and why air conditioners suck now
(media.greatawakening.win)
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This shit was all the fearporn rage when I was a kid in the 80s, along with acid rain. Thanks for these insights, the Duponts don't rear their cunty coneheads much.
I didn't even intend to share this. I just stumbled upon it in my collection when looking for something unrelated, and figured you guys would like it.
Me too my GenX fren. And then it turned out that jet engines created ozone so not much chance of the ozone layer being depleted.
Just think about how pissed all of those girls are going to be that had to switch to pump action hairspray right when curling irons and the "bitch-flip" was becoming popular. ;)
And the a/c in older cars was so good you could run it for 10 mins turn the car off, keep the windows up and the car would stay cool for another 30 mins.
Now the second you turn the a/c off the car gets hot.
I wish I was Generation X, but I'm actually a millennial. On the older edge of it, but still.
As a Gen X, I adopt you into our tribe. Now act accordingly. 😜
Welcome my brothers! From a time when women were women and hairspray was king.
Heh, I'm already still a teenager at heart. You should see my hobbies.
Watching anime &/or playing with mini dolls on a grid rolling math cubes is totally an adult thing to do 😂
I second that.
Aquanet
Thank you...and 1234yf is EXTREMELY expensive!
Not to mention flammable and toxic. It’s close to $50/lb where r134 is about $10/lb.
Thanks for sharing!
I remember this fear porn. Disappeared by middle school, so around 1998. Checks out.
Yes. Even at that time, there were reports of scientists working on some thingamyjig to 'block the hole'. Sound familiar? Maybe, being more impressionable as a young teen, or the misledia not being so pervasive and 24/7, or a combination of both, it seemed slightly more believable back then.
Best word ever!
Not making the tools and knowledge available for laymen to find the answers themselves, even guided, means a lot of stuff can be very effectively lied about.
As we know, the "peer reviewing" process has been compromised due to how incestuous it has become.
Yup. Im still waiting fir the rain to melt my skin off or eat the paint of my cars. I remember being told the white spots on a cars paint after the rain was the acid from the rain water.
The DuPonts own Biden imo
Acid rain was the start of chemtrails and the whole Climate Change narrative.
R-12 and R-22 refrigerants were the best. They are the most efficient for cooling and best in lubricity for compressors. Unlike R-134 and newer refrigerants that are carcinogenic if you are exposed. The funny part is that R-12 and 22 continue to be used in China.
I just ran this by a family member with 25 years HVAC experience. All true and then some.
Yes, i remember seeing a huge exposé on this on some random homemade website 20ish years ago. A based HVAC guy putting out big red pills to anyone who would listen went into a lot of detail on this conspiracy.
While we are here DuPont is one if the OG families who invested into the federal reserve. Governor of Delaware, Pete DuPont, helped give Biden a "Grassroots movement" to win his first bid at senate. The day of his sign in, Bidens Wife and two daughters run a stop sign and are killed by a sober truck driver. Insert Jill who later marries Joe. The Bidens now own an old DuPont Mansion. Delaware is credit card capitol of the world. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/11/biden-bankruptcy-president/
Dupont made teflon which made animals and people ill, knowing it was toxic and hid it.
https://organicconsumers.org/devil-we-know-how-dupont-poisoned-world-teflon/
The list goes on and on.
Some of the old steam locomotives had air conditioning ----- they used near-vacuum water evaporation as a refrigerant.
Old buildings used steam powered ac as well (some still do) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_jet_cooling
" 1234 yf " you say?
Does that stand for: One, two, three, four, you're F'cked!?
Username checks out!
I've noticed other comments from u/CasuallyObservant/ that were similarly insightful. I imagine them with binoculars and a magnifying glass in front of a computer, possibly smoking a pipe.
R12 was the best. I have 2 cars that take it. I will find somebody to recharge them when im ready.
134 is ok. You can get them to frost windows 😁
Incidentally, what does it mean to "charge" them?
Charge like a battery? Or charge as in refill them, like you would with freon?
Yep. You charge the system as a synonym for adding refrigerant. The "charge" in the system is the total mass of refrigerants. You can "meter" in a charge using pressure and temperature, or you can "weigh" in a charge on an empty system using a scale on your source.
With some fittings and a flush gun, 1234yf will retrofit back to 134a. Prrtty much all the compressors are labeled 134a/1234yf now.
Gauge pressures and performance are pretty equal, but 1234yf is $7-800 per 10lb can and 134 summertime peaks at 350ish for a 30lb can.
I wonder if r12 could be added instead? China ships all kinds of crap here.
That said, don't do it. Glowies... I told everyone not to do it 😅
Iirc from my time in HVAC 134 and 12 in the newer systems use different compressor oils and some other minor things so idk if it would work. Can't remember off the top of my head
I would love to get my hands in an old system. Sounds like they would be much better to have.
Thanks for the input.
Idk if you even can anymore. With mobile hvac the cars themselves are designed to be obsolete in 5 or 10 years. So the older stuff is now really obsolete, like v belt compressor clutch pulleys instead of serpentine belt, etc
With residential and the switch to r410A, we cleared all those out back in 2009 at the place I worked so idk how you'd find a NIB air conditioner and coil unless someone had sat on one
I was in the auto air conditioning business for 28 years and what you say is true accept that you could actually drop in 134-a to replace R-12 and have decent results. What did happen though was the heat exchangers were improved considerably. And some design changes were made to utilize low pressure / low temperature gasses to lower head pressure by running the high pressure liquid gas through the suction lines.
I will certainly be glad when people are FORCED to honest and have a set of balanced scales for commerce and justice. Come Lord QUICKLY!
They say don't use butane ---- because it is flammable.
The new (very expensive) R1234yf refrigerant ---------- is flammable.
Fuck ------ just use butane.
Propane works as a drop-in replacement in r134a systems, assuming they're lenient enough for propane's different operating pressures. Car ACs usually are. Source: am being cooled by propane.
You can recharge a 134a system with air duster cans. https://youtu.be/xmQRB64CHKA
extremely flammable
Propane works too.
My friend had a bunch of the old stuff. H recharged my old Buick. Man, you could have hung meat in that car on a 104° day.
Took a meteorology class in college and learned the ozone needs sunlight to activate. No sun = "hole". It's like worrying about getting sunburned at night.
I don't understand what you mean by "activate". Ozone is ozone is O3. You can "deactivate" it by removing an oxygen atom to make O2.
From wiki - Ozone is formed from dioxygen by the action of ultraviolet light and electrical discharges within the Earth's atmosphere.
CFCs are very heavy molecules.
Think about that.
Where is the Ozone Layer? Really high up. CFCs don't float. They aren't capable of getting UP TO the ozone layer to "Damage" it.
Total scam. Scientists knew this too. Just like scientists knew masks don't work to stop viruses, and social distancing was a scam, and so on and so on.
R134a is the same thing as hfc-134a. R134a is when is used as a refrigerant and intentional releases are against the law. HFC-134a is the propellant in inhalers and its use is specifically to release into your lungs (and by association, the air)
I OCRd it for archiving.
The ozone scam, and DuPont
Remember the hole in the ozone layer let me redpill you on what happened. DuPont invented and held the patent for r12. R12 is an extremely efficient refrigerant. Anybody with an old r12 car or refrigerator can attest. R12 cools better than r134. and also operates at a lower pressure. Late r12 a/c systems were bullet proof and many are still operating on their original pre 1994 charge DuPont who had the patent for r12 understood this patent would expire in 1979. This was the time of a massive boom in air conditioning adoption.
The fed said cfc's were the cause, and allowed DuPont to continue sole manufacturing of r12 until the "switch".
From 1979-1994 this bought DuPont total control of the refrigerant market. R134 came along. Guess who patented R134? DuPont. So now DuPont had total control of the market again. a market designed around an inferior product and planned obsolescence. Modern ac systems are shit; they are extremely finicky, and run high pressure which makes leaks appear. Right when the r134 parent was coming up to expiration, new data showed r134 to also be bad for the environment. Same shit again. DuPont created and patented a new refrigerant. Even less efficient than M34. This compound is called 1234yf. Honeywell has part of the parent and they are the ones that manufacture it.
R12 could blow 6-7 degrees cooler then r134 and was 15 times more efficient. 6-7 degrees is a massive difference in cooling capabilities over ambient. The new 1234yf is 5-20% less efficient then r12.
1234yf operates at an even higher pressure. This creates leaks, and provides an extremely small window that it will even operate at.
The ozone layer was a scam. It was to provide DuPont with continued total control of a massive extremely fast growing market. Every new compound allows them to create a worse product that requires more continued sales.
This was interesting. It seems DuPont cornered the market on "air condition". Thanks for the information.
butane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZrHzd3RA8
I was just watching the HVAC epa class thinking, “ this is communist propaganda “
Wife mentioned the Ozone layer last night, the scam about the Hole caused by aerosol cans... they always have something to scare you.
alarmism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarmism
We should normalize patent piracy and distribution.
Control the market …. Keep out the outsiders… split up the profits …. Everyone gets paid … round & round we go! This Corporate theft in every industry must be stopped! We must return to quality products, goods & services… the golden age if you will?
I am very curious how the old refrigerants would work in a modern design heat pump, assuming that heat pump was actually made for the old refrigerant.
Heat pumps are pretty cool. Could they be even better if they weren't neutered?
O3 is created in the atmosphere by sunlight. There is no sunlight over the poles for 1/2 of the year. Hence the hole that forms in the ozone layer. It was always a lie. That is also why they do not bring it up anymore.
This helps corroborate that the earth is a globe. One cannot have an ice wall on the outside of the perimeter that has sunlight 1/2 of the year.
Just like how Rockefeller and Standard Oil came up with the term "fossil fuel" in making folks believe that oil was in limited supply thus being able to name their price.
Look up EcoFreeze. It's an R22, plug-compatible refrigerant. Doesn't need any license to get it, because its 98% -------- PROPANE.
I know somebody ;-) who has been running this in his AC systems for years. But now it doesn't seem to be available. Looks like they got to them, but the website is still there:
https://eco-freeze.com/products/