1. First, the bad news - we’re all sinners in the eyes of God.
Romans 3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
2. More bad news - the result of sin is death.
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death.
There are two parts to death. The first death is a physical death here on earth. The second death is the lake of fire (hell).
Revelation 21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
That’s a pretty bad list, right? But, notice at the end of the list it said “all liars.” The Bible says, “let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4). The point here is that we’re all sinners and we’re all condemned to hell - even if the only thing you have ever done wrong is tell a lie.
3. Now the Good news – God has a gift He wants to give you (eternal life).
Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God has a gift He wants to give you and that gift is eternal life and it is through Jesus Christ. You don’t have to work for the gift and you don’t have to pay for the gift.
Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
4. More Good News – Jesus paid the price for our sins.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Just because the gift is free doesn’t mean that someone didn’t pay for it. Since God wants to give you a gift, He’s the giver and you’re the receiver, so He paid for the gift. Jesus paid for the gift by His death, burial and resurrection. Do you believe that Jesus died, was buried and was resurrected on the third day to pay for our sins?
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
God says he wants to give you eternal life, that is life that will never end. This means that when you die the initial physical death, you will not die the second death of being cast into the lake of fire but instead you will go and live with God forever in heaven.
Titus 1:2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Our hope for eternal life is that God cannot lie. So if God promises you life that will never end, then He will give you life that never ends. Salvation had nothing to do with you, remember it’s “not of yourselves” (Ephesians 2:8). When God forgives you of your sins; He forgives you of all your sins—past, present, future. That is how he can guarantee us eternal life.
5. All you have to do is accept God’s gift for you by faith.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
If someone were to buy a gift, wrap it and write your name on it, it would not become yours until you accepted it. The gift from God is exactly the same. It’s already been paid for by Jesus Christ and God offers it to everyone but you need to accept it. You accept the gift of eternal life by confessing with your mouth while believing in your heart.
Do you want to accept Jesus Christ and be saved from your sins right now? Then just say this simple prayer:
Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I’m a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that you died on the cross, were buried and rose again to pay for my sins. I ask you to save me, forgive me of my sins and take me to heaven when I die. Thank you for giving me eternal life. Amen.
Congratulations, you are saved!
If you prayed that prayer and got saved, send me a message - it would make an old Canadian guy very happy to hear that you got saved. God bless.
Well done, good and faithful servant! I might add one thing. This acceptance of Christ means a full surrender to His will. One should not think that praying a prayer will lead to eternal life. Jesus said unless you repent, you will perish. We must count the cost!!! He also commanded the rich young ruler to give away all his riches (this was his god), and come follow Him. The rich your ruler turned away sad. He would have prayed the prayer, but would end up with false assurance of salvation. He would be like the seed planted among thorns that grows up and looks great, but the trials (temptations) of life choke it out.
Agreed. As James says in Chapter 2: “Faith without works is death.”
I remember the 1986 World Series Game 6. Ouch!
Sir you need to reconsider what you are writing here. Salvation by obedience-faith is unbiblical, even if Roman Catholics teach it as official doctrine.
Please review the basics of the epistle to the Romans; where works (anything, literally anything we can do or continue to do to please God) and faith are two SEPARATE paths to being justified before God. One of those paths is strictly hypothetical, that if we wish to do well we can inherit eternal life on the grounds of full, perfect, and perpetual obedience. Or what you call "full surrender".
This was precisely the legal argument Jesus gave to the rich young ruler. He did not come to Jesus as the messiah, crying out for mercy as someone in a helpless state. He called Jesus "Good teacher" because he had moral conduct as a basis for eternal blessings on his agenda. He wanted to know what else must be done to fill out the required goodness that makes eternal life a reward. Jesus' response accepts the ruler's premise for the sake of argument. His response was not "Oh just be a disciple like these 12 guys here, do good make some sacrifices and follow me". Jesus in fact was saying this: you must be just as I am: give up everything (he set aside his glory to become a humble servant completely voluntariliy), sell to the poor (all that you possess and value in this life are now the property of strangers and even sinners who may not appreciate you whatsoever), and come follow me (literally, walk with me towards Jerusalem, to also be falsely accused, arrested, beaten, and allow yourself to be put to death purely out of self sacrificial love for your neighbor).
This "full surrender" is a higher standard than you can imagine. It means completing the same mission as Jesus himself did. Who is up for it? Show of hands? The answer is only Jesus did what could be done to inherit eternal life. That is the sum conclusion and fulfillment of the Law, loving God and neighbor so that one may attain life and blessing. We need a substitute (faith in Christ, redemption by HIS blood), we cannot fulfill personally what is required. Period.
Repentance is also not the grounds of justification, i.e. being accepted before a holy God. Otherwise Christ died for no effectual reason, if we only had to be sorry and do better against sin to be saved. We cannot mingle the content of the gospel with the consequences of the gospel. Those who are saved by faith in Christ alone, with no works added, no tears of repentance contributing to God's judicial decision, certainly will have new life and walk in a desire to please God and turn from sin. As evidence of justification by faith. But none of that is the grounds of justification. Again, read Romans carefully. This straightforward structural overview of the epistle I think would help clarify some things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar6PjL3quBk
Amen, it's a non good news "gospel". Their good news is, now that your aware, earn it. These people mix carnal salvation in this flesh passages with spiritual. They mingle non-salvific passages with salvific. Then become the very man in James 2 that demands to see works for proof of salvation, as if it's what God says and not a man like James is saying. James 2 is about showing MEN your faith by your works not God. Because he's asking what does our salvation profit unsaved men of we don't demonstrate our faith via works to them? They can't see our heart like God. God is only pleased with HIS finished work on the cross. We do not add to or take away. But we become Sons of God and seen without sin a second time like it or not folks praise God He made it easy.
Amen and amen! The more I study the bible from cover to cover, and see the blinding perfect glorious holiness of God's character reflected in the Law he gave to Israel through Mt Sinai, the more crystal clear it is how precious to all mankind that promised seed was in Genesis 3 and then again to Abraham in Gen 12, 15 etc. The Law came later (Galatians 3) to demonstrate that sin disqualifies everyone from obtaining life even through our best efforts; no one is righteous according to God's standards, even though the Law shows how righteousness and blessing must go together. We need an advocate and a substitute to go in the stead of God's judgment for us, to cover us and give us life by His righteousness according to the stipulations of divine Law. We can only hold out the empty hand of faith and receive the gift that was obtained by the bloody cross. And yes, works are absolutely necessary to demonstrate we are not playing games with God in confessing faith in Christ, but that we believe in our hearts.
o7 amen brother, our works are to been seen separate from salvation, as much as linen (flax/works) and wool (lamb/salvation) were to be separated as an image of our works separated fully from our grace based salvation in the OT. Good things but inappropriate to mingle the two given that context. They both have their place, but don't mix em. We gotta get out of His way, for our own salvations sake.
Hey, buddy! That sounds like works to me! I live by faith alone. In fact I didn't even repent for my sins or say that prayer because it just feels a little to worksy like what those wafer eating rat bastard Catholics do. Stupid Catholics with their seven sacraments and 12% more Bible.
Fren you seem to be very confused on your understanding. By accepting Christ into your heart you live like Him by His Grace. In doing this you do good deeds, be righteous, helping others, etc. That is not works, you aren’t doing those things to be saved, you’re already saved. You crucify your old life and do these things because Christ has transformed you.
If you profess to be a Christian and continue living your life the exact same as you were swallowed in sin… you might want to look over your life and ask if you truly accepted Christ.
Bro. One can point out false teachings and salvation by works without hating those who are deceived.
Calm down Francis.
Kek😂😂😂😂. I love this diversity in the Brethren. Love you all.
Dipshit, you are not following Q. The team told us not to let others divide us. Looks like that is what you're doing. I'm Catholic and while I cannot stand Francis, I do love my faith. I also respect the faiths of other people.
On this board I believe there are many who are very complex and capable of critical thought.
Repentance is required.
Experience and strength is gained by seeing we are not perfect. The best example in today’s future is to see a Church flying a lgbtq flag is a symbol they are not of Jesus.
Sure the Church can claim John 3:16 but repentance is in the heart and it shows that we know we are not perfect.
To claim you are going to heaven and also claim perpetually going after lust openly and boldly is a sign.
The flesh is weak but the lgbtq flag has attempted to steal the symbol from God while mocking Jesus.
The Christian is to bow at their feet but the Christian who is bowing at their feet is worshipping Satan, not Jesus. Openly.
Repentance is something I have been looking into and praying on recently. Can you elaborate on what it is and how to obtain it?
Not “obtain”, “practice”.
It is an ongoing thing. Find where you are in error/“missing the mark”/“sinning”, and work on “circumcising” that action from your heart and “repenting”/“turning away from” that sin and walking in obedience.
Three things are required to do this:
Sin follows physics. Nature abhors a vacuum. Don’t just try to pull sin out, the vacuum that is created will suck it back in. Instead, aim to replace it with acts of faith.
The “Roman Road” is likely good as a starting point, but I believe the above is the path of repentance.
Further, a lot of Christianity will claim that “sin” and “faithfulness” (negative and positive laws, respectfully) are only found in the New Testament, but the New Testament appears to be very strongly built upon the Old Testament.
While no ill intention is here, there is ill intention and misguided information everywhere, so I do recommend studying and discerning for yourself in case of error on the part of any counselor. Scriptural reference guides (such as Strong’s) and word studies can be very helpful.
People will tell you that “oh so you’re an expert in translation now! I suppose these guys over here were just dumb compared to your 15 minute study where you’re an expert now!” but always remember that Andrew Cuomo told us the same thing about Hillary’s emails. Don’t allow anyone but God, through the Holy Spirit, to be your authority, and do not forget that “faith” isn’t about studying, but about action. Like a plant, a certain amount of pulling nutrients from the soil and dormancy are necessary to bear fruit, but the fruit must be borne.
Awesome contributions. Thank you so much. 🙏
What if God through the Holy Spirit is exercising His authority through the priesthood of the Church?
How would you know?
I think it's quite clear that if the Holy Spirit was authoritatively guiding Christians in a personal manner, that there wouldn't be such a variety of beliefs between "denominations".
I agree that the New Testament is clearly built on the Old Testament. And in the OT, we are told that the man is the leader (has final say) of his household/family. Surely then it's plausible to believe that the Church is the leader (has final say) on matters of faith and doctrine.
After all, there is nothing new under the sun. The Bible prefigures everything.
I had a long post for this, but in short, Revelation 1:6 my fren.
Was it written for you, and I, and other believers, or for specific people?
I believe that message was written to us, and not to just a select group of people who have passed through a specific training and promotion process into priesthood.
The Kingdom of God is within.
To put it another way, I agree that your proposition is correct, and it seems we are not aligned on our definitions of “priesthood” and “church”.
A good allegory is this: you're driving somewhere and think you're going the right way. Then you see signs, and people tell you you're going the wrong way but stubbornly keep going the way you were going. It's my car, and I know where I'm going. Repentance is you finally realize you're going the wrong way, so you make a U-turn. You also realize the car was never yours, you were just borrowing it.
Repentance is a change of the direction of your will, to turn towards God. It's also a surrender of the ownership of your life, acknowledging that you belong to God.
May I add that understanding God's love (or beginning to grasp it, as we cannot fully understand in this world) should be an integral part of one's faith journey. It will help guide you.
Grace to you, my friend. If you have any other questions, just ask.
Thank you, I also wanted you to add this for anyone else who would be reading. It seems like repentance is not just a rejection of sin, but it requires accepting and surrendering to Christ first, then sin becomes disgusting
For me repentance is feeling of remorse for all the things I've done, people I've hurt, bad things I thought of throughout my life. And to repent is to change, changing the way I think, forgiving people, letting go of resentful feelings or bitterness. I think we all have a bit of that towards parents, people in our childhood, people who've hurt us.
And after cleaning out your mental closet you can start new with a fresh mind and fresh attitude, such as being careful not to attack and hurt others with words, pointing fingers, focusing on people's shortcomings, self pity, depression, feeling hopeless or in despair.. those old feelings need to be turned around to feeling hopeful and joy and seeing life through Jesus' eyes, even in the midst of storm because that is what faith is. Try and become more self aware, think before reacting or speaking based on ego and emotions, and so on. Just some examples based on my own experience. Basically clean the temple of God, which is your mind and body.
Another verse from Jesus -Matthew 11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” NIV What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them. '
Admitting you're a sinner, confessing your sins, and changing your behavior is repentance.
John 8:10-11
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Remorse/regret.
It is an individual thing. To turn away from something.
Fasting can lead to understanding.
One thing I have observed is very intelligent people have a harder time with the concept. Their intelligence can get in the way of concepts that surround repentance. Like meek.
If one works for a store and the store says to put certain items facing a certain way and the worker on accident puts them the wrong way, the manager will rebuke (advise) the worker of their mistake on such item. This will give the worker the ability to change (repent) and make a decision to face the item as the store wants it faced.
In that scenario the worker is viewed as ignorant, because all new workers have the same beginnings in such a store. In this store it is up to the workers to volunteer to grow and become more knowledgeable and useful. The manager will not require this worker to want at this stage.
Fast forward a bit and this worker has a foundation in this store and now- has a desire to serve at a higher level. The manager sees this and for a test the worker is put back at the mistake that was made.
If the worker puts the item the wrong way it requires more discernment to judge this worker. This worker -wants- promotion to see more. So if the worker again puts the item facing the wrong direction and does so with knowledge of doing so, but shows the manager a weeping face and acts as-if he made a mistake. My question can this worker repent? His heart opposes the work he wants to be promoted in.
If the same worker puts the item the correct direction with no thought about it, we might see his heart automatically goes to the truth of the item.
When we see lgbtq flying their flag, to me this is the delimitation. They are claiming the very basic of Christianity is incorrect and should face the wrong direction.
Each path will create the person to make decisions. One decision is to say let others be what they want, which most agree on. This is completely different. This is a very bold statement to those who are meek. It is a very bold statement to repentance.
A wise Christian will never follow a beguiled Church. What is even more remarkable is the wise Christian will stop going to that church after rebuking the Church by both words and funding. The Church will go out of business in a Capitalist society.
To answer that question for me is very tough. I am a human who has always been in the same exact state as any other human with free will.
Maybe if you told me 2+2=6 and I advised (rebuked) you it equals 4. The decision you make will show you repented or hardened- your heart.
Many levels to where many are. Many here are at higher levels of Spiritual concepts and also at higher levels in society. If a Commander tells his soldiers to fight and they fall. Will the Commander doubt his action of movement? This is where many become broken.
I pray to be weak. Every Commander needs humility. -I am non commander by the way- just an American with free thought. ;)
Repentance is required as an inseparable evidence of faith in Christ. In Romans when Paul is presenting the legal argument for justification by faith, he excludes any form of "doing good" as being a part of justifying faith itself. That would include a genuine resolve to turn from sin. Think of all the examples in the Gospels of characters who have favorable encounters with Jesus, it is their faith that brings about salvation (A petition for mercy in some way, acknowleding their sinful and helpless condition). Repentance is the happy consequence of Jesus' saving act of healing/forgiving sins.
John 8:11-12-KJV -go, and sin no more.
Jesus is the light to shine on things. It gives us a choice and also removes being the victim of darkness. Only Jesus is perfect and perfection is unattainable.
By flying the lgbtq flag on a Christian Church shows they have turned darkness into their light. Some might say flying a lgbtq flag alone is satanism.
Example?
I like watching closer to people things. Like this link. To me this is more real news than any MSM.
Skip to the 21 minute mark. They show us their light is darkness and they are in the open. Should we bow to them?
https://youtu.be/mWNfQRj7sd4?si=sLCJVninT_nd-FnJ
Perhaps not initially, and perhaps by many not intentionally, but nowadays it seems like the alphabet mafia flag is connected to Satanism, and the Satanists and the alphabet mafia always seem poised to protect themselves and each other from the perversely -- and inversely -- named "evil Christians" who are the moral compass of this country.
Regarding the command "sin no more" this happens twice in John and is specific to the two people Jesus was interacting with. In both cases, Jesus knew something of their particular circumstances where some manner of habitual behavior or living had resulted in their extremely dire situation at the time he healed or forgave them. So it is not a universal template on how anyone comes to faith in Christ and repents. The rest of the New Testament is consistent that the life of the believer involves a process of struggling with sin. Paul for instance never tells the churches he writes to for everyone to simply "sin no more". He says now that they have died to sin and been made alive with Christ, they must persevere in the process of putting to death the sinful deeds of the flesh, for this is consistent evidence of our new identity in Christ as a new creation, though we still inhabit corrupted bodies in a corrupted world. But for particular sins that are tearing apart the Church, or scandalizing the Gospel message, Paul gives the pastoral command to deal with it decisively (1 Corinthians examples: the petty divisions, the incestuous relationship a man had with his stepmother, etc. Galatians example: the false teaching to require circumcision and law keeping to be saved. Hebrews example: the temptation to return to Judaism for assurance of salvation, etc)
Of course making an unforced decision is involved in coming to faith in Christ. But unfortunately American evangelicalism has in some ways made mankind's natural ability to "choose" into a work an in some cases even an idol. I used to be in that world. It's a democratic libertarian distortion of Christianity. The NT teaches we in our natural state don't even have the ability to choose correctly without the regenerative and sovereign work of the Spirit upon the heart. Remember in John Jesus also told his disciples, "You did not choose me, but I chose you". Wait, what? They chose to follow him didn't they? Yes, because once they are no longer dead in sin and darkness but are His sheep (sovereign work of the Spirit), they hear His voice and follow.
Yeah I think we are all individuals in both Christianity and the USA constitution.
Being an individual in each should be taught we also have consequences for our decisions. Some decisions I see are lack of courage to stand up against perceived higher authorities in both, while those who claim authority demand Christian’s be silent.
The micromanagement of do’s and do nots becomes a divider. Love is the most important and will cover a multitude of disagreements on lesser issues. The lgbtq is not of Jesus. It is openly satanic with a sword and children as their perceived shield. OP
The only way to move forward in the culture we are heading to in the USA is to allow Christians to be persecuted to the death and claim they are trump supporters to justify the means to the end or to repent and stand with Jesus and the USA constitution.
The line has been there for a long time, however this year we are already seeing people need to repent or harden their hearts.
Sometimes to heal it is required to break. Many fronts in this culture war, but any front claiming to be of Jesus and flying a lgbtq flag is not of Jesus. Those flags should be burned.
I am not angry, I am only observing the inevitable. Now those who want to repent are welcomed and those have repented may still be doing wrong, but with the Spirit of God we have the same foundation and the same forgiveness.
Not dooming here. It is exciting. Many people God has chosen to lead us out of this, but are they willing to stand up?
Jesus is the only Way, the narrow gate that leads to salvation. The journey to it can be difficult and dangerous, but there is simply no good alternative. Stay the course...
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. 14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it. Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
If I died today, I'm sure I have NO idea where I would go - or for that matter, if my soul/essence/consciousness would 'go' anywhere at all.
I can't even tell you what I think will happen, because truth be told I have absolutely no clue.
Some of you (a lot of you) seem to know.
That's enviable. Truthfully.
That's all I have on the matter. Love ya all.
Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened for you."
There is a Father in Heaven who loves you literally beyond measure. He wants to welcome you home into His family, and give you peace, joy, courage, strength, and a love for your fellow human being. Come as you are. Do you believe that this universe, from sub-atomic particles to the periodic table to vast galaxies, just created itself? Have you learned about the mind-boggling complexity and wondrous ingenuity of just a single living cell? One would have to be insane to truly believe it sprang up from pure chance. There must be a Creator. That Creator has reached out to mankind over the millennia. Those He interacted with passed His truths on and they were written down in the Old Testament and the New, both of which spoke of God's love and His desire for mankind to join His family. The ultimate sacrifice was Christ dying for you and me to save us from our sin that separates us from God. Is there any reason for you not to accept His love and salvation? If you have any questions, just ask.
That is the purpose of this post.
It is to show people that getting saved is NOT complicated. For those that do want to go to heaven to be with the Lord, all they have to do is accept Him by faith by confessing with their mouth and BELIEVING in their heart that He is the living Son of God that died for their sins. So easy, yet satan continues to run his program of lies and deception to capture the souls of man. God bless you.
I was in the same place as you a little over a year ago.
I said out loud to who or whatever may have been listening, but for all I knew it was to only myself, "I want to believe, but I just don't".
After that I started reading the Bible more and more, and had a general, but strange, sense that everything I was reading might as well be true. I mean, why not? Then a few months later I again took stock of my view and realized I could earnestly say "I believe".
Almost the exact same experience here, complete with the OPs skepticism and, frankly, trepidation. Had been seeking faith for years and could never really wrap my head around believing this "fairy tale" of Christ could possibly be more than a metaphor. It bummed me out.
One random day, I sincerely asked, as you did, and I was rewarded immediately with the warmest presence I can articulate. It wasn't an immediate Faith, but it was a reply, and over the past few years that seed has grown and grown and is now bearing fruit.
Lots still more to do, learn and grow. But I am grateful and sure of Christ now.
Humility. Knock on that door with complete surrender.
Yes, its good to keep in mind that not everyone's journey to faith is an instant, overnight crisis thing. Jesus is a patient and loving shepherd who may work differently in different folks. John 3 talks about being born fresh, born from above, but he didn't say its an instantaneous thing necessarily. Read carefully what he says about the work of the Spirit, His mysterious methods like the wind that comes and goes. But the takeaway is to not lose heart, be discouraged, or give up if all the answers are not suddenly clear, or if obstacles and opposition seem to threaten the cultivation of the seed that has been planted in your heart.
100%
Even after I came to believe, that wasn't simply it. Every so often, it's like God hits me upside the head with some new information and I end up having to change my view based on what He's presented to me.
Awesome to hear, fren!
"Ask and it will be given to you" becomes a stark reality, especially in cases like ours.
And yea, certainly much more to learn. The more time passes, the more I realize how little I truly understand.
As I have said before, I am awakening to God and Jesus. I do not believe I am the best to say much on such things, but I give my best to explain what I am experiencing through my unfogging lens.
The major part for me is looking back from 2019, where I just finally accepted I have no options for my life left. I gave prayer a chance. And over the next couple years I went down such a different road than I anticipated that I didn't realize where I stand now in contrast.
What makes me believe this was God's doing, is there was so many articulate, and unexplainable moments that cannot simply dismissed away with logical breakdowns, and makes more sense when you bring in a divine intervention possibility in the explanation.
I went from a defeated game designer, having everything stripped, to making sauces and cleared a soace where family do not interfere. Not once before I truly cooked a day in my life. Til now.
My story may not be as exciting as those harrowing moments, but it is the truest moment in my live to believe God curated this whole shift for me.
Gave me goosebumps. God Bless! 🙏🤗
Thank you. I’m just now interested in Christ but I still don’t feel 100% confident in them-but I feel that’s normal. Looking around it’s hard to believe a loving and caring god would let this planet get to this point.
I just don’t understand how i can believe it. I know I can say I believe it-and I want to believe it-but I just can’t 100% believe it. It’s irrational. My mom, sister and I grew up so poor and miserable and all I’ve seen to be “god” is money and power. How can I be confident and faithful when I feel I’ve had every shitty bounce in life, and worked so hard and honest.
But thank you for the post. My journey is young and I hope I. Am find pure faith.
And apologies for my blasphemy ish post-I just have doubts and don’t see how someone could ever be confident in Jesus/god from my (and others) situations. I almost feel cursed
Also I archived this post I like it so much
https://archive.is/Vb056
You are not cursed.
God created a perfect world in the Garden of Eden. The sin of man ruined it and has been ruining everything since then.
Everything that is bad in the world (money, power, violence, crime, hate) is rooted in sin and sin is of the devil. God asks us to separate ourselves from the world and follow Him. It is 100% by faith (i.e. something that you cannot physically see).
The Lord wants you to accept Him by faith. Doubt and fear comes from satan - he wants you to reject Jesus so he can claim your soul in hell forever.
I hope you pick up a King James Bible and read it cover to cover asking the Lord to help you understand it - He is only too willing to do so.
The salvation plan is very simple (as I have outlined in this post) but the devil and those that follow the devil are very much at work to do everything they can to stop you from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.
I pray that you pursue the way of the Lord and not be de-railed by the lies of satan.
If I can ever be of assistance in your quest to know Jesus, just message me. God bless you and I will pray for you.
Thank you. All of the responses were so nice and I really appreciate it. Hope you have a good night
This is not blasphemy. It's your honest struggle and your questions and doubts are common ones. Thomas was face-to-face with the risen Jesus and still couldn't believe until he put his hands into the wounds.
Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened for you."
Here's a video, it's only 2 minutes, so I can't pretend it can completely answer everything your heart is longing to know, but it's a great start. https://youtu.be/OvoYMvJDXg0?si=7VEKaoY--mgc0VL5
You say you feel cursed... Well, we are all cursed. Not only by the great evil around us, but minor evils within our own hearts. The Good News is that God didn't want us to be cursed and didn't just sit on a heavenly throne to condemn the whole cursed earth and destroy us. He came out of love to rescue us in the person of Jesus Christ, who took our curse upon Himself in order to free us of it. He rose from the dead to give us a new life, one where we live under His kingship and resist the rebellion against Him by embodying the love and truth of God.
By being here, you are already on your way to recognizing there is a higher truth than the ugly reality that humanity has been drenched in since the dawn of time. We believe there is something wrong with the way things are and have been for thousands of years. We believe there is some ultimate good to aspire to. That is the image of God in you, and you must look to it to help you find your Father in Heaven.
I'd be honored to try to answer any questions and help you find the amazing truth of God's love.
Very well said! It gives me such great joy to hear the words of truth and testimony from the many believers in the King of kings. May God richly bless you in your journey to serve Him.
I appreciate the response and the offer. Give me time and I’m sure I’ll have some more questions. Thank you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9AR1Wt3ASc&t=85s
long video, but somewhere within the first half, he gives an answer from his experience to a question very similar to the one ur asking.
I am coming back to God after a ... hiatus so I am in the same boat.
What would happen if God destroyed Satan as soon as he first committed sin in his heart?
Would the angels continue to worship God out of love or would it be out of fear?
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
This is not unusual for our time and place. You can read about the crisis of the Christian church back in the 4th century when Rome was being sacked and the whole world as they knew it was going to pot. Augustine wrote a book called "City of God" that meditates on the intentions of God and his spiritual kingdom that does not depend on the rise and fall of any particular society, nation-state, or empire.
Also, consider the faith of Abraham as described in the book of Hebrews; even though Abraham had a great many promises made by God directly to him, and God swore an oath by His own existence and character that they would be true, all seemed to be contradicted by Abraham's wandering, pilgrim existence. He had no land to call his own, no heir while he had an old and barren wife who was also doubting, and even his own sin and foolishness threatened the fulfillment of God's promises. The NT author to Hebrews says Abraham endured because he did not live by what his eyes saw, he lived by seeking "a better country"; the heavenly realm itself, not just a piece of real estate later called Israel. The earthly blessings were just a preliminary level of what was promised, they paled in comparison to the knowledge that God was preparing a heavenly kingdom and a spiritual seed to conquer all enemies including death itself. That's why Abraham was able to carry through his call to sacrifice his only son Isaac. He knew God would give Isaac back to him somehow to confirm God's promise (faith in a resurrection, i.e. life coming out of death). It's a truly amazing program of divine grace and power that we are called to hinge our faith on.
This is very well done. Thank you. Yes I know. Exactly where I’m going when I die. I am so grateful for what Jesus Christ did for me, a sinner. I’m so grateful for his grace in his mercy towards me.
I remember when I was initially saved but I love posts like these to 'renew the vows' so to speak :)
This is Protestantism, not Christianity. The Orthodox Church does not ever say to a believer, "You can be sure you're going to heaven." Things can point in that direction, but we never can say, "I'm going to heaven when I die." There is a famous story of an aged monk, a man of holiness, who, on his deathbed was asked, "How can we get to heaven?" , by another monk. He said, "Do as I have done", the answer that sent him to Hell because it was prideful. So, keep struggling every day. There is no resting on one's laurels, if you get my drift. LIFE IS A STRUGGLE.
You have misunderstood the Gospel, I'm afraid. I rest on God's laurels. There are many, many, many, many passages in the Bible that unequivocally teach assurance of salvation. Here's one:
The blood gives us the righteousness of Christ from the point of our most sinful state (through faith), so after that, what more would Christ hold against us? He's seen us on our worst hair day, dressed in filthy rags, smelling like manure, and no make-up on, and he still cleaned us up, gave us new clothes, married us and brought us into His house. We can be sure He will love us forever after that!
Look at how often salvation is referred to as a gift from God. A gift, not a reward. If God gives a gift, would He take it back? Only if we reject it, refuse it, renounce it, could we ever not own it.
I strongly suggest you look up a preacher named Andrew Farley. He teaches well on this subject, like all the time, over and over. Almost everything he teaches is about this, and and it's very clear. Be blessed.
Who is us?
If it is everyone, then Joe Biden gets to go to heaven and meet all the kids he sniffed without so much as needing to repent or even believe in God.
If it isn't everyone, then what do we have to do for that verse to apply to us? Believe in Christ? Do I really believe in someone if I refuse to do anything they told me to do? I mean, even the demons believe in Christ. They know He is Lord. They know He rose from the dead. They just reject Him anyway.
So if actually doing what Christ tells us is required, how can I know I am saved?
Not to levy any disrespect, truly, but is Andrew Farley as clear on the subject as Paul is:
Romans 11:17-24 NLT [17] But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. [18] But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root.
[19] “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” [20] Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. [21] For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t spare you either. [22] Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. [23] And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. [24] You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong.
1 Corinthians 9:27 NLT I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 4:1-4 NLT [1] So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who have been put in charge of explaining God’s mysteries. [2] Now, a person who is put in charge as a manager must be faithful. [3] As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. [4] My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.
How about Jesus:
Matthew 24:9-13 NLT [9] “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. [10] And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. [11] And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. [12] Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. [13] But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
If to repent is to turn away from sin and to God, then what would it mean to turn away from God?
If only those who endure to the end are saved, how can salvation be assured?
In terms of an equation, I think a lot of people believe
True Living Faith + repentance + good works + perseverance = salvation for the believer. This is contrary to Eph. 2:8-9, the teachings in John's Gospel and epistles, and several other passages.
I believe the Bible teaches this:
True Living Faith x God's work = repentance + salvation + good works + perseverance in the believer.
This does not contradict James or the verses you provided.
I could be accused of using the True Scotsman fallacy in this (what is "True Faith"?) but my argument is that the Bible teaches it, so I'm going to stick with it.
I suppose that is a reasonable argument, and you're right it fits with the verses I mentioned.
The only thing I'd wonder, is where does that leave the people who hold a strong conviction in Christ, believe they have True Faith, yet the works don't follow, and they stay stuck in unrepentant sin?
Maybe that simply doesn't happen, but it seems reasonable to me that there are people like that. So their faith is dead, I suppose, but this seems to establish that works are important for salvation, at least as evidence of faith. It almost seems more like we're arguing semantics than doctrine, kek.
So what really is the difference? How would we tell between the two you mention?
In either case, I think the above verses I mention make it clear that salvation can be lost; we can be cut off. The only difference is whether it happens because of ceasing belief or ceasing works. Though in your above equation, it seems there isn't much difference, since without the works, the faith isn't true.
Lastly, how can works, repentance, etc. be evidence for True Faith, while also coming after True Faith? In effect, it seems you'd be proving the faith with these things, so they can't come second.
P.S. I'd include God's work in the first equation. Without that, it still doesn't work. Only God's grace ultimately saves.
The Bible tells us we can know for sure if we are heaven bound.
I John 5:13 says this, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know you have eternal life.."
John 3:36, "36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life"
The Bible is clear, everlasting life is available to those who believe, conversely everlasting punishment is for those who don't believe.
Jesus said in John 5:24, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jesus said in John 8:24, " Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
YES, you can know if you are going to heaven or hell.
That word translated as "believes" means more than lip service.
It also means obedience.
Yes, John 3:36 ESV - very clear. Belief results in obedience.
So demons? Demons don't just believe Christ is He, they know it. They were there from the beginning and chose to rebel with full knowledge of what they were doing.
And my comment here provides some verses to the contrary: https://greatawakening.win/p/17s5WE36ff/x/c/4Z7SQaZWBzI
Yeah, this board is dominated by evangelical protestants. To declare yourself bound for Heaven and worthy of living next to Christ because you think you're good enough and doing what you think is right is pure egotism. There is only One who will determine our destination in this Universe.
Not to be uncharitable, but the Protestant insistence on Sola Scriptura, or personal interpretation, is the same. It's the first sin of the Garden. It makes the self out to be God, with final say. Even if one considers other interpretations, when yours is the definitive one, you are worshiping yourself.
I'm heaven-bound because I accepted that Jesus is the living Son of God that died on a cross for my sins. I told him that I'm a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I accepted His free gift of salvation by His Grace and by my faith in Him.
I certainly NEVER pretended to be "good enough" to get to heaven. LOL The Lord certainly knows that is not the case.
I am curious, when you say "there is only One who will determine our destination in this Universe" - who are you referring to?
His comment perfectly mirrors what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4:1-4
[1] So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who have been put in charge of explaining God’s mysteries. [2] Now, a person who is put in charge as a manager must be faithful. [3] As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. [4] My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.
This is among several other verses that make it quite clear that salvation can be lost. I explained more in my other comment above: https://greatawakening.win/p/17s5WE36ff/x/c/4Z7SQaZWBzI
Further, Satan and his demons also accept that Jesus Christ is the living Son of God who died on the cross to defeat sin and death. They don't go to hell because they don't believe, they go to hell because they reject Christ in their will. They go to Hell because they are evil, and don't obey God.
So if we're evil too (we are; sin nature), and we also believe, the only thing that would separate us from the demons is not belief, but obeying God.
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing His good news, brother! You are an encouragement.
They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mark 2:17)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12)
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)
Repenting worked like this for me, I went to no Priest, my sins were quiet sins, the ones we make against ourselves, following Lust, gluttony, avarice, envy, and God's love will make every single one of those things fail, humiliate, and impoverish you. I was brought to my knees in intense mental and emotional pain.Luckily, I had been raised to go to church, Sunday school, and by a Dad whose answer to my childish complaints of boredom was to read the Bible. Every single time I chose sin, in the form of drinking, sex, following the crowd, I ended up hurt. Repenting meant breaking the self created person and returning to the person God created and wanted me to be. Amending my life meant to not only practive Christian principles, but serving Jesus Christ in my caring for "the least of these" , those that were aged, disabled, dying, the care including cleaning poop, dressing stinking wounds, loving the insane who were cursing me as I attended to them. How did I not get burned out? By seeing each body I washed and fed as the body of our Lord hanging on the cross, with love, for me. His will be done, no matter how many rocks you throw at the sky, His will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I sometimes have thoughts that come late at night, daydreams during the day. Satan is a mind parasite, and for me the simplest way to stop those thoughts is to say "get behind me Satan in the name of Jesus Christ. If you practice calling on Him, his name will rebuke temptation, I promise you.
Satan is a mind parasite - he is also a soul parasite.
Great way to Disciple people!
Here I am Lord, send me!!
I love your post. When we hear the gospel…..that is, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus…. we would then ask…What do we do to be saved?
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.“
So there is an action required to be saved. There is symbolism in baptism after confessing belief in Jesus….You are dead in your sins (death), you are buried with Him in Baptism, and you rise up (resurrection) with Him to a new life with the Holy Spirit inside you!
This is the pattern set forth by the Apostles in their teaching.
Being certain in salvation is a wonderful thing!! God bless.
Amen. Nearly everyday I’m going to need this and the Lord’s blessed strength from here on out.
We'll all need God's strength for the turbulence that lies ahead. Fortunately, He has more than enough to go around. May God bless you in 2024.
And you as well.
Amen! But it's not the prayer - it is God. You simply have to turn to Christ and repent, and He will transform your heart and make you a new person. Many people "say the prayer" and yet are not saved because they do not repent of their sins and are not ready for transformation. So it is all about the heart.
Isaiah 55:9
For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
This is the verse I got. I see people debating about who's right and wrong. Well nobody is either way. God, Jesus, are not textbook subject or math.
God's way is higher than our way and beyond our limited comprehension. All God wants from us is our humility and obedience, in turn faith, and let Holy spirit guidee our way. Each person has different path and meets God alone when we die.
I just pray that everyone here will stay faithful and joyful, and have love in their hearts and may wisdom and righteousness grow in you.
If we could understand nothing of God, the Bible wouldn't explain God to us. But it does.
Neither.
I would “sleep” in the grave (or as dust) until the resurrection. But I get your point and nice post TYVM.
Amen.
God bless you, MJ.
May God bless you in 2024 also.
I can do that too, proclaim my beliefs are the truth. Like this, did you know everything goes back to source. God is actually all of us. We are all one, we are creating everything everyday.
No matter what you do here, you go back to source. The only evidence I have is listening to hundreds of different NDE testimonies. I have concluded that Hell is a fabrication. And so is Jesus and all religions. In my belief, The only thing that is true is what's true to you, you can be a baby eating puppy kicker, and it doesn't matter, you can still go back to God's love. Your spirit can also be trapped, I guess that might be like hell. But I believe a trapped spirit eventually seeps back into the energy source of everything. if you believe it or not, doesn't matter. I choose to live a life of love and grace, on my terms, because I want the challenge. No bible told me so.
NDE = Near Death Experience. Jesus Christ is the only one with Actual Death Experience. You should listen to Him. There is far too much evidence of Christ's life, death, and resurrection to ignore. You are living in Original Sin: you want to create your own ideas of good and evil, you think your eyes are open and you are your own God. That's literally the first story in the Bible after creation.
You may not read the Bible, but it sure is reading you!
Check out Lee Strobel's books like the Case for Christ.
Wow, what a perfect way to word this thought.
And it's so true, for all the people who reject the Bible or don't truly understand it, who can't see or hear, the Bible truly understands them (and not just in an "of course they'd write that when fabricating the Bible" kind of way).
Ya bro, I know the gospel. Been there and I saw through it. I know it means I'm saying that you believe in a unprovable fairy tale, but in reality, there is no evidence, outside the bible, that Jesus was a real person. No historical records from any other human mentioning anything about a majic person walking on water, turning water into wine, etc. but keep putting stock in things you have to believe and I'll stick with my own version of what I believe
See, these kinds of views always just end up being veiled rebellion against God.
There is no justifiable claim to Jesus not existing. Him not being God is one thing, but He existed regardless.
Also, what about all the NDEs concerning Hell?
Also, also, NDEs are near for a reason. The person didn't die. There may be cases where the person truly died, went to heaven or hell, and then God returned them, but in most of these cases it's likely just tricks of the mind. Just because the body isn't all there is doesn't mean it doesn't have a profound impact on our perceptions.
You claimed my belief is a hidden rebellion against God, but did not offer how you formed this thought. Then you claimed that there is no justified claim that Jesus wasn't real. Which is dumb, any half ass can see it's a total bullshit claim because they could just do a search and find plenty of reasons why so many people are now convinced that Jesus and religion are basically just popular population management tools.
Believe is a funny thing, people don't know it's not real
When you question all the foundations of history, we get into a sticky territory, because there's usually no alternative.
Without history, we don't know where we came from. We don't know who we are. The cabal love this. The question is did they already corrupt history, or is that what they're trying to do now. I'd lean towards the latter, as I believe God preserved at least what is necessary to prove the Bible.
This, by the way, is partially why I read this as rebellion from God. Instead of believing that God preserved His word over the cabals attempts at corruption, you believe the opposite. The opposite belief is a rebellion from God because it posits that He either doesn't exist, or neglected to preserve His word.
Ultimately, it is impossible for us to come to any shared understand if one of us rejects all history and the other doesn't. By all historical metrics, Jesus Christ existed. I can't do much more than point that out, and if you reject history at its core, there's not really anywhere to go.
It’s doubly impossible to discuss anything when one side rejects objective reality as a thing that exists (which, by the way, is a new-age humanist cabal ideology based on Satan's first act in the Bible (as is everything the cabal pushes. It's all the opposite of what the Bible says is good. I wonder why?)).
Also, it's a shit population management tool (religion = population control = rebellion from God) if that's what it is. The entire New Testament is Jesus calling out the hypocritical Pharisees for their legalism. Christ summarizes the law in two rules, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments"
So as a population control tool its main purpose is to... checks notes... tell people to love each other?
Sounds like the opposite of the cabals division tactic, which is integral to its continued existence.
As for "love God", if God is real this isn't an unreasonable population control demand, it's just what we should do (once again my assertion that your belief is based in rebellion from God. You suspect that the reason the Bible tells us to do things is evil control schemes, not because God loves us and wants the best for us)
I'll finish by saying that, as you point out, some people choose to be evil, while you choose to be good. This is exactly the problem with self-worship, and why it's clearly the wrong way to operate a society. Even if God isn't real, it'd be better if everyone believed He was.
In that sense, the Bible absolutely seeks to control us. By telling us what to do. The question is: Is it God telling us or the cabal telling us? Seeing as the Bible itself presents God as giving us free will, and based on the unity aspect which the cabal hates, I'd say the former.
This is the ultimate basis for my assertion. The Bible is quite evidently the archetypal "loving but firm father", giving us firm guidance on what to do and how to live from a place of love. To call it some evil cabal control mechanism is, by definition, rebellion against that which is evidently good. It's a "do what thou wilt" attitude, which is the basis of Satanism and the evil cabal, the very thing we seek to destroy.
You are working with a lot of logical fallacy, thinking about debating before learning. Learning doesn't mean you have to adopt the ideal. It's for your entertainment. If something seeps in, so be it.
My testimony does smash religion, but it does not affect you personally, so try to chill. It's opinions and beliefs, no one is paying us to fight.
You didn't "point" out anything. This is a sign of brainwashing and a mantra of programming. Jesus isn't in history record. Please, show the source. Can't use bible though, logically. A dogmatic adherence to a single source is another cult think sign.
If something is true, it cant be untrue, it's true from every observation.
I tried faith in Jesus, and ever trough all my years, church leader, bible groups and camps, I always knew something didn't make sense. Its all bullshit, and it's totally obvious once you realize this isn't a planet in space, and what that really means for your understanding of reality.. Good luck.
Of course you can use the Bible. It's a collection of primary sources that is proven to be the same today as it was back then, based on the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not to mention the secular sources of which several existed.
I pointed out that according to history, Christ existed. This is well known. If you reject history, then it obviously doesn't matter to you what the "accepted narrative" is. That's my whole point. I can't "prove" Christ existed to you if we don't agree on the validity of history.
But nonetheless, there is more evidence for Christ than for the emperor of Rome at the time. As I said, unless we throw out all of history, Christ existed. If you do want to throw out all of history, and many do subscribe to that perspective, that's fine. But based on everything I've seen and researched, that's not where I'm at, and it's not because I'm brainwashed (brainwashed people believe in evolution. I don't qualify.). Also, you don't possess some superior mind because you reject all of human history, which is exactly what the cabal wants, by the way. Believe what you want, but don't act like I'm some incompetent, brainwashed idiot for not agreeing.
And the Bible makes just as much sense if we aren't a planet in space, if not more sense. I'm as open as I've ever been to us existing on a plane instead of a planet in space, yet that doesn't change anything about the Bible. It's not even really a science book. You can find some truths about reality in there, but not any that really exclude any specific details.
Argument from incredulity is a fallacy. Your own lack of understanding of the Bible or connection with what it says does not make it inherently bullshit. This gets back to my statement that this is just rebellion from God. That's exactly what the Bible says we do, and if the Bible is true, it got that one right too. You "tried" faith, but didn't like it, so it must be bullshit. But that's our sin nature, we're inherently rebellious and averse to faith in God. We're meant to hold to that faith in spite of our nature. If it were easy to have faith in God, the Bible would be wrong. You saying it's hard lends credibility to the Bible, not the other way around.
Also, the opposite of faith in God is worship of the self. This leads to all humans evil that have ever existed.
Finally, the bible is very obviously not bullshit from my perspective. This is why relying on our own senses to determine truth is futile (and also more self worship, by the way).
I grew up with the same brainwashing and never questioned that Jesus was a real person. Then I questioned it and the bible. I'm aware the bible has some accuracy, but it literally is not proof. It's just text. Historical record would mean that Jesus appears in historical sources, like in a journal or in some artwork from the time, and zero. This is well know too. But it's logical fallacy to claim it matters in proving Jesus exists or not. The numbers of people who believe one way or the other, doesn't matter.
And I'm not ignorant about the bible at all. My claim that it's bullshit comes from the fact that it can't be proven to be truth.
You pointed that if we exclude history then we cannot prove Jesus existed. That's all I was saying. History is the only thing that says he existed and history is missing verified, unbiased evidence.
And another program you ran was saying the rebellion against God is worship of the self. I was "taught" the same thing. And it's no feat that people can predict a rebellion against God results in self worship in most cases. But not in my case.
And about where we are. It does make a huge difference. You just have not put it together that this really is a plane. And we really are trapped, and all the national leaders know it, they always have.
So it changes everything. We go from our planet and our destiny to being slaves in a wheel. Religion and most of the knowledge we think we have, could have been planted to make our society easier to manipulate and manage.
I really am pretty smart person. I'm not gonna call you dumb though. But maybe make some room for other people to teach you things instead of assuming you're the shit. You would be surprised how much you are wrong about still, even after all these struggles to understand the world. Im ahead of you at the moment, and once you take the flat pill, your perspective on everything slowly adapts the the new reality.
For some, flat earth makes the story of God vs devil even more real. And by all possiblity, it could be. But, it's also possible that religions are planted here, since we must have been planted here.
Dude, you're fucking full of shit.
I don't need some asshat telling me I'm a fucking brainwashed robot just running programs because he thinks he's some intellectual juggernaut. Your ego is fucking massive. And maybe you are smarter than me, I'll give you that. But my argumentation thus far has been far superior to the abject drivel you've levied.
And yes, I am 100% triggered. Moreover, I don't do passive-aggressive. If you want to throw accusations as a prime method of argument, I'm going to tell you what I think. I think you're a tool.
Now, with that out of the way:
Problem #1
I didn't grow up with shit. I was agnostic until AFTER I joined GAW. And became Catholic AFTER that. If I got brainwashed, it was by anti-authority sentiment on GAW, and anti-Vatican sentiment on GAW. And DESPITE that, I became Roman Catholic. My predisposition was AGAINST all these things, yet I still came to believe them. Get bent with this "you're brainwashed" crap, you poser.
Problem #2
There is no logical fallacy involved in claiming that a primary document is evidence of a claim. And the only thing that's well known is the several secular sources outside the Bible that confirm the historicity of Christ: https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources
Also, name one formal logical fallacy I've committed. You can't (or maybe you can. I'd love to see it so I can improve my argumentation going forward). Logic is my specialty. I may not know everything, and you may be smarter, but logic is what I use to close the gap, where appropriate.
You can't prove you're smart, either. You can't prove you aren't a brain in a jar. You can't prove you won't get hit by a bus next time you leave your house. We can't prove Joe Biden isn't a man in a mask. We can't prove Joe Biden is a man in a mask. We can't prove Trump is a good guy. We can't prove Q is real.
Proof is imaginary. Evidence is all that counts. And as far as the evidence goes, Christ being Lord has plenty. You choose to reject is based on some other criteria, not because it has an insufficient amount of evidence compared to anything else.
There is more evidence for Christ than historical. The historical evidence verifies what we're seeing. The evidence present in all the creation verifies the historical account. They confirm each other as a result of their inherent truthfulness. God is self-evident. The Bible explains which God, and does it in a way that can't be refuted. You can't name one thing that the Bible is wrong about.
Also, this was my whole point. If you reject history and I don't, this discussion has little potential to bear fruit. Our entire base worldviews are different.
I find the historical evidence to be perfectly acceptable in light of the evident realities of the creation.
The Bible was written 2000 years ago, yet it's got you pinned down to a tee. But ok, if you don't worship the self, who is your authority on truth? Be specific.
Cool, never said it wasn't.
And I never said it doesn't matter, because it does. I said it doesn't disprove the Bible, and even fits with it potentially better (as you admit).
Rebellion from God. I'm going to stop posing theory and stating fact: God gave His revelation to Man and you can't see it or hear it because of your inherent sin nature that drives you away from God.
Also, you can't prove any of that.
Also, also, your observation is correct. Religion exists to tell us what to do. Your problem is your rebellion from God that prevents you from understanding why that's a good thing. Unrestricted freedom is why evil exists. Freedom is not a virtue.
To use that observation as some kind of evidence against religion is asinine. Yes, control is the point of religion. That doesn't make the claims of the religion false.
You called me every synonym for dumb, or at least you might as well have, but thanks, I guess.
Though, it appears to me that an unbiased review would reveal that you're the one with the ego problem here, man. As evidenced by, well... your inability to write three sentences without puffing yourself up. You couldn't even refrain from doing it in the selfsame paragraph that you accused ME of thinking I'm "the shit" in. In fact, you sandwiched that claim in between TWO statements stroking your own ego.
Now, as for my perspective, I couldn't get much closer to thinking it's flat than I already am, without simply accepting the claim. I still reserve judgement until I can get out and do my own tests at the very least. But even if I can confirm say the 5+ mile laser tests that disprove curvature, it won't change much about my perspective.
Just like nothing changed when I came to reject evolution. All the same things are still true observationally, they just have a different explanation. Not much about my life changes if I accept flat Earth. I already don't accept any of the anti-human bullshit pushed by the cabal. I already accept the notion that God created us with and for a purpose, and that we aren't just dumb animals with no purpose waiting to be enslaved by the stronger monkeys or aliens or whatever crap.
And if you didn't understand all these things after learning about the Bible, you never really understood the Bible. Then again, it's impossible to understand the Bible and not see that it's true, so no one who rejects it understand it (or God).
Honest question, where does all this "we were seeded on Earth to be cattle" shit come from (I'm assuming that's what you are getting at)? I keep hearing this shit, and haven't seen a lick of evidence. It honestly just seems like some schizo shit that only makes sense in theory. But maybe evidence exists, and I just haven't seen it yet. So if you're really interested in teaching me anything, now is the time.
Thank you for this post.
Hall of Fame post. Bravo and thank you! Saving to show others.
And yes, I'm all aboard. Christ is King. Amen.
God bless you.
I've got my HOF induction speech already prepared.
Thank-you for this get honor, I'd like to thank my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ without who I would not be here today. He is my Rock, my Friend and my Redeemer. He has blessed me abundantly throughout my life and I can never repay Him for what He has done for me. I can only try to love Him half as much as He loves me. Glory and praise to the King of kings.
If there's a heaven I'm absolutely sure patriots will have a place.
Hell will be chock full of pedophiles, rapists, murderers, traitors, and torturers. Also, some people who aren't in government.
Hell will be chock full of sinners who rejected God, and Heaven will be chock full of sinners who repented and followed God.
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I think the most important of your post id this, "Romans 10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Not everyone, according to the bible, will go to heaven. The people who go to heaven are all alike in one way: they are sinners who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Fren, why was Lucifer cast from heaven? It wasn't because of a lack of faith. He knew exactly who and what Jesus was. The Bible isn't clear exactly what sin lead him to rebel against God, perhaps he desired independence or equality with God or perhaps his pride refused to accept a being of a lower nature (humans) being united to the person of the son of God, but either way, he didn't obey and was cast down for it.
https://www.newmessage.org
I think this is very relevant for anyone with the eyes to see and the heart to listen. There are some very powerful messages here to level anyone up.
Amen.
I got the cheat code, though. I'll just repent for all my sins right before I die. Check and mate! 👍
And yet, just one verse earlier:
Rev 21:7 -- He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
Obviously, not everyone is a liar who is automatically condemned.
The hardest thing for people to wrap their head around is the idea that the jews are NOT the Israelites of the Bible. We have all been lied to our whole lives, and for several generations (this lie really took root about 100-200 years ago).
Nobody can understand the Bible without understanding this fact. It is the main reason why the Bible is incomprehensible to most people.
But let's dig into it a bit with this context in mind.
In John 3, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees (ancestors of modern day jews).
Whenever Jesus spoke to those who were NOT his people, he spoke in a way that THEY could not understand him. He wanted ONLY his people to understand him.
Matthew 13:2 -- And great multitudes were gathered together unto him ...
Matthew 13:3 -- And he spake many things unto them in parables ...
The "great multitudes" means a mixture of people -- both his people (i.e. Israelites) AND those who were NOT his people (i.e. jews -- we have been lied to about the idea that the jews were the Israelites, but it has always been a lie -- and others).
Here, speaking to "the multitudes," Jesus speaks in parables, not straight talk.
Matthew 13:10 -- And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
HIS people (the Israelites) are now alone with Jesus, and ask why he speaks to those other people in parables.
Matthew 13:11 -- He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Matthew 13:13 -- Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
In Matthew 15:22-23, a Canaanite woman pleads with Jesus to help her daughter, who is possessed by the Devil. But he refuses, because he knows she is not one of his people (she is a Canaanite, not an Israelite).
Only when she acknowldeges that she is not one of his people, but would he please help anyway, does he help her.
When his disiples ask about this:
Matthew 15:24 -- I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Jesus came ONLY for his people (Israelites, who were the descendants of Jacob/Israel), and not for anyone else.
The entire chapter of John 8 drives home this point.
John 8:3 -- And the scribes and Pharisees ...
These are what we today would call "jews." They were trying to find ways to trick Jesus, because they did not believe him, and they wanted to catch him in a lie or lack of understanding.
John 8:13 -- The Pharisees (jews) therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 -- Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
The jews cannot understand where he came from (they outright say he is a liar), or where he will go, because they do not understand him -- because they are NOT his people.
John 8:19 -- Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
John 8:21 -- Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:22 -- Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
It is interesting that this is one of the few versus in the entire English version of the Bible where the word "Jews" is used correctly. In most places, it is incorrectly used.
John 8:23 -- And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:24 -- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
They don't believe in him BECAUSE they are not his people. It's not merely that they don't believe. They CAN'T believe because they cannot understand him, because they are not his people (Israelites).
John 8:33 -- They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Note: The true Israelite people WERE in bondage both in Egypt and later in Assyria (10 of the tribes) and Babylon (2 of the tribes).
Clearly, these people could not be the true Israelites if they had never been in bondage.
Also, some of them were of Abrahams's seed. That was true (in part). However, they were NOT of Jacob's seed, but rather Esau's seed. That is the key, which Jesus addresses next.
John 8:37 -- I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:38 -- I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Jesus' father is NOT the same as their father.
John 8:39 -- They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 -- But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
John 8:41 -- Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
John 8:42 -- Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 -- Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
They are satanic seed, not of Spirit (God).
John 8:45 -- And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:47 -- He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 8:58 -- Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus was God himself, in human form.
Now, with that as context, getting back to John 3:16 ...
John 3:1 -- There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
He was again talking to a jew (not an Israelite).
John 3:4 -- Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 -- Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:12 -- If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Jesus is saying that this man CANNOT believe because he is not of the Spirit. Does not matter what Jesus says of earthly or heavenly things. The man will not able to believe. Today, jews still do not believe Jesus.
John 3:16 -- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This does not mean ANYBODY can just believe. Clearly, some people are not capable of believing or refuse to do so.
Galatians 4 gives us insight:
Galatians 4:3 -- Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Paul is writing to Galatians (i.e. Israelites) about when "WE" were in bondage.
Galatians 4:4 -- But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Obviously, Jesus.
Galatians 4:5 -- To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Jesus came ONLY to redeem THEM THAT WERE UNDER THE LAW.
Who was under the Law?
Israelites.
No one else was made to be under the Law (Abraham >> Isaac >> Jacob/Israel).
Galatians 4:6 -- And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:7 -- Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Paul was saying, "You -- the Galatian branch of the Israelite family tree -- have the Spirit of God in you. And YOU are under the Law (along with all other Israelites).
And since Jesus was speaking with a non-Israelite in John 3:16, he is speaking in a way that is not easy for non-Israelites to understand. He was telling this jew, but without saying it directly, that he (the jew) cannot believe in him (Jesus), and therefore is not one to be saved.
Now ...
I understand that some people will not like this (others will really like it, though), but regardless, you have to read the ENTIRE Bible and keep the whole thing in context, not just an out-of-context verse here or there.
God created a people who had the capacity to sin. How could it be otherwise? If people could not sin, they would merely be robots. Most likely, God wanted people who WANTED to do the right thing.
But by Noah's time, too many of his people were off track. So, he did the flood (a local flood, not worldwide), to wipe out his people who were too into sin.
But by Jesus' time, even the Israelites were sinning again, so he brought Jesus to forgive the sins and start anew.
In modern times, we are back at it again.
Hey Buttwipe: If you're thinking that your sins are so severe, that God's forgiveness is beyond reach, I'm happy to say that you're wrong. God's grace is greater than anybody's sin. He is more concerned with the direction of your life than what you have done in the past.
This may sound very odd, but you are closer to heaven than many people who go to church. Salvation begins with recognizing your sins and condemnation. Many churchgoers are in denial of their personal sinfulness. That's why Jesus said that He came to save sinners, not the righteous. (NOBODY is righteous) You need to confess your sins to Christ and beg him to forgive you. Be willing to walk away from those sins and then ask God to lead you and help you to leave them behind. Open your Bible and learn about Christ, and what He expects of you. Follow Him and learn what it means to be a disciple. When you stumble back into your old ways (and you will), get on your knees and ask forgiveness. You will do this again and again as He slowly refines you. Continue to read your Bible and figure out how you should serve Him.
Once you are saved, you should see a change in your life. Your sins should trouble you, as you now have a desire to please the Lord. The Bible should come alive to you as it becomes your source for life and Godliness. You should desire to hang out with other people who love God. Find a good church that teaches the Bible as it's sole source of authority. Your old sinful friends should see that you don't fit with them any more, and may make fun of you. Try to bring them along.
Eph 2:8-10: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not by works so that no one may boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good work, which He has prepared beforehand for us to walk in them.
You don't have to go to hell - the Lord has laid out a very simple roadmap to salvation which I have faithfully tried to outline in this post. I urge you to accept Him regardless of what sins you have in the past. The devil is good at telling us, "God can't love you because you did ...". These are lies - God loves everyone and He wants you only to accept that His Son Jesus came to this earth and died for your sins. If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, He saves you on the spot. You can't work your way into heaven. Salvation is by Grace and faith alone. The blood of Jesus is SUFFICIENT to wash away your sin. Your sin background is NOT disqualifying. God bless you in your quest for Truth.
The Lord loves you more than you will ever know. If you truly believe that Jesus is the living Son of God and that He died for your sins, why not complete the deal and SAY a prayer like:
Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I’m a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that you died on the cross, were buried and rose again to pay for my sins. I ask you to save me, forgive me of my sins and take me to heaven when I die. Thank you for giving me eternal life. Amen.
Then you can set about:
Let me know what you decide to do - I'm praying for you right now. God bless.
Ask The Lord Jesus Christ to send you to Heaven instead. Ask Him to work in your life true change and He will. He is always seated upon The Throne of God and He will answer you. Submit to The King.
A man told me once you don't come to Jesus Christ after you're clean. You go to him dirty, and He is the one who will clean you and make you perfect again. Jesus also told the pharisees in the table who asked him why he eats with taxpayers that a healthy person doesn't seek a doctor, only the sick, the same way we seek Jesus because we're far from perfect, we're sinners and undeserving, but Jesus who died for your sins and have paid your debt will be the one who will save you, hence the symbol/importance of baptism.
If you, my fren, feels you're too sinful, then you're ripe for harvest. Ask Jesus to forgive your sins and wipe your debt so to speak, and turn a new leaf through Jesus Christ because that's how much he loves you. You can try seeking love, going from one partner to another, but you'll never be fulfilled because the only true love which will fill your heart for eternity is Jesus Christ our Lord and savior. Come to Jesus tonight. It's not too late as long as you're still alive.
I think being presumptuous that you will be judged a certain way isn't very good, because we don't judge others, we don't judge ourselves. All we can really do is live the best we can.
I rely on the authority of God's Word which I consider as infallible. The "do the best you can" may sound good but it won't get into heaven (according to the Bible).
Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?
By judging yourself as worthy, you are not relying on the authority of God's word, you are relying on your own. Anything else is just noise.
Are you a Christian?
Alright. You are not going to engage in good faith, because you will try to insist on trying to catch me in some form of "gotcha" as if I need to validate my faith to you directly.
Point me where in the Bible that it says that we each dictate our own entry into Heaven.
Because news flash: In all my life, no God fearing folk has ever taught that we decide where we go.
I was just curious if you profess to be a Christian or not. You certainly aren't accountable to me and if you are uncomfortable sharing that with me, I understand. But most Christians I know are very proud to say that they are a child of the King.
My experience with most atheists is that they talk smack, they don't know much about the Bible and they lie and mis-represent constantly.
So let's get you straightened out on a couple of things:
and
I do know that I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus is the Son of God and my savior and I do believe that God raised Jesus from the grave - so according to God's Word, I am saved. I stand on His Word. What I think has nothing to do with it.
Finally, I don't waste a lot of my time sparring & jawing with atheists so I will end our discourse the way I always do, by saying, I hope that God will bless you.
I was agnostic, but leaning Christian and raised with Christian values and beliefs, though turned away from organized religion for similar reasons that many others end up overreacting and jumping on to /r/atheism. Too many bad messengers claiming the authority of God, and never willing to be challenged.
Agnosticism relies on the fact that due to God's omnipotence, you cannot prove or disprove that existence because God is everything anyway -- this is very different to atheism, which has become a theistic religion all its own at this point, who will actively work against God in modernity.
For example on being challenged, I took a dislike to the statement of a simple prayer being enough to be saved, to be forgiven.
Confession and repentance are more than that, and no one can say that another person has been saved on those grounds because we are judged by God himself.
I want to elaborate with recent discussion why I take issue with this:
Do you think a child raping, abusing, evil blackmail artist like Epstein could just say a simple prayer as he was being murdered and be saved? I should think not, because all of those things run contrary to Christian beliefs, and those beliefs are the world's collective guiding moral compass.
To believe that you can do anything awful all of your life right up to the very end without doing anything to "balance the scales" as it were and still be granted entry just because you said sorry doesn't jive very well, nor does it with traditional teachings dating back before modern day Christianity.
I stand on what God said in the Bible. He said if you confess with your mouth that He is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead - you are saved. PERIOD no qualifications.
He didn't say that the quantity and seriousness of the sins committed was disqualifying or that the timing of your salvation had any bearing on the validity of your salvation. He never said "you have to balance the scales" (good works do not offset sin). Only the blood of Jesus washes away sin.
God will judge fairly. Certainly, reciting a prayer on your death bed and NOT believing in your heart will NOT get you into the kingdom of God. He knows and sees your heart. No one is going to fool God or trick their way into heaven. He knows ALL things and will judge fairly.
Finally, organized "religion" and many "religious" leaders have been the downfall of many would be believers. Trust and obey the Lord only - seek to vet everything you hear with the Word of God. If there is any discrepancy, the Word of God is what you should follow. Run from the false teachers - they will only cause damage.
My prayer is that your spiritual journey brings you to a place where you can say "yes, I have accepted Jesus as Lord & Saviour and am committed to reading the King James bible" (other translations are perverted just like certain religious organizations and leaders). If you connect directly with Jesus through bible reading and prayer and find a good KJV Bible believing church where spiritual growth and fellowship can support your new walk with Jesus, you will find that He will reward your faith with many blessings. There is nothing like the peace that a daily walk with Jesus brings into one's life.
I sincerely pray that God will bless you. I know that He loves you and wants you to accept Him as He has laid out in His Word.