My point is to prove that the entire program is a rip off and that Elon and Doge are doing good work. If anyone here is on social security your input will be beneficial. This will all be done off national average and the results will be posted here once done. I hope it helps someone or at least opens minds to how Governments are not good at investing your money. Of the which, I am sure you already know. But this will be shared with libs too. Numbers are facts and do not lie. Thanks in advance.
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Do Medicare too…decades of paying Medicare taxes AS WELL your employer paying Medicare taxes and yet the monthly Medicare premiums are $185 plus Part D drug coverage for sub-par coverage. To get comparable medical insurance, my parents had to get a supplemental plan for $150+. Their first year on Medicare was $200 MORE than what they paid as employees AFTER PAYING MEDICARE TAXES FOR OVER 50 YEARS!
Numbers are PER MONTH!
My study will require the pay in from 1970 to current vs the payout and what one could expect if they did their own payment savings that the gov couldn’t steal from.
Great idea but one study at a time. It would require me a team of math gurus to do more than this right now and as I stated, this will take me sometime. Possibly months. I want it to be detailed and accurate. I’ll have graphs and facts to back it up and I’ll have to be able to give all my sources of which I plan on it coming from the government so there is no argument. I’ll be able to say the info came directly from the gov themselves.
My first response to this post was rather flippant, sorry. On further reflection, if it helps in your quest, I recall something I read a few years ago. The data might have slightly changed since I read it, or (thanks to the COVID shots) it might have changed drastically.
It goes like this: A major life insurance company (I can't recall which) had an actuarial table, deeply researched and quite thorough, and they found that of all people who retired, the average retiree lived long enough to collect 17 monthly checks. If you imagine a bell curve of time lived after retirement, the top of the curve would be at 17 months, with the X-axis going from 0 (died shortly after retiring) up to some higher number, which I cannot recall; it could have very well been a lopsided bell curve with a longer line to the right than the left.
Insurance companies live or die on accurate actuarial tables, so that they know how to price insurance policies. And as I said, that was before the COVID debacle jabs, also known in math as a "confounding variable."
Good luck with your search.
EXACTLY, they keep cutting back benefits & raising the tax, then crying the fund will out.
I was a Texas teacher. Sadly, Medicare with my supplement and drug plan gives me MUCH better insurance coverage than my BCBSTX insurance did and at a much better price.
$185? We were quoted over $800 + for really bad coverage. Went with private insurance.. We would have been ok, except obamacare kicked in and deductions and co pays went through the roof. Even with that, private coverage was cheaper.
Average age of death 78.4 Age to collect 67 So the average person will collect for 11 years and this is all based solely on a 35 year work history. Problem is most people work 50 years before they can collect. Average wages are $5677/ month social security tax is 6.7%. I’ve got some work to do. Any input helps.
I took mine at 62. It's additional income for me as I collect another pension. I'm investing that 24k per year into real estate. By year 4 the assets will exceed the 168k by over double. So I'll more than make up for the smaller payment over the life of the benefit. (If u can call it a benefit)
I'm in the same situation as you (not 62 yet, but getting close) and have a pension that basically covers my bills with a little left over plus I help my wife with her small business (She's claiming all the income, I do at least half the work). I've ran the numbers - I would be close to 79 before the total I will have taken out will be more if I wait until 67 vs taking at 62. I figure on investing it until at least the time my wife can start collecting (she's a couple years younger than I am). We'll both be able to retire comfortably by then with a decent sized nest egg plus we have not even tapped into our !RA's yet. We won't be rich by conventional terms but we'll have more than enough to go do some fun stuff without worrying about how we're going to pay for it. It's amazing how little money you really need once you pay off your house and don't have any car payments or credit card debt.
Wow I didn't know any companies were still doing pensions....
One of the reasons I kept working until 72 was my company did a buy out for retirement. We had yearly additions to our 401K in diminishing amounts for 5 years. Also, the plan required the company to start payments of annuity at a certain age. For these years I socked it all away in a simple savings account and when Joe was elected, I exited the stock market for tax free IRA. The one thing one can't do in old age is start over. So what you have is all you are going to get.
I had to cash in my pension. I had worked for an auto company that left Michigan. I was too broke to pay my bills after because finding another job took nine months. I have no savings because of Michigans failing economy. Although I’m skilled in tech, worked since I was 14. I have two degrees and worked for energy, automotive and education at the university level. It’s unconscionable that I can bearly hold on.
As I recall the payout is tied to the average of your top seven years of paying in. Someone else quoted a higher number.
50% collect at 62...
Thanks. And therefore their benefits are cut in half regardless what they paid in.
I'll give an in-depth comment from my experience at work tonight.
Your work?
Will explain that fully in my comment. in a few hours. I have to get ready for work. I do security work.
No, they are at 70 % of the calculated rate.
If you are self employed, you pay double.
That's true your paying for yourself and your employers part which is a benefit and part of your pay.
The boat I’ve always been in. But employers have to pay the other half and they never receive a dime for it.
Did you find it?
There’ve been claims before that the RoR% on SS is something like 2-3% vs typical market returns of something like 7-25%. Those numbers are off the top of my head and might not be accurate, but it was something like that.
Will Google loan you their Quantum computer? 🤔😵💫😂🤣
I should be able to give my social security payoff to my children. I worked my whole life and i am still working. The government should not be able to receive what my children are entitled to. Trying to keep this short but the gist of this is that. Until i hear that i have always believed it is just another pyramid scheme to take more from us. That simple.
I know a lot of older people that are dying from cancer and stuff almost as soon as they retire. They collect almost no SSI. My mom passed from COVID, more likely from remdesivir like a year after she retired. I think social security is broke and they're trying to off those who collect
Well that was the story, wasn't it???
""Older Folks are more vulnerable"", I remember hearing that on like some news channel or maybe reading it in a paper....
An now, it's finally hitting very close to home, my friend who runs a store has the Vaxxx Cancer, I'm trying to convince him to take Ivermectin....
I like the cut of your jib
My father had to find a lawyer to receive SSD because of his stage 4 cancer and he fought hard for two years. All the money he paid into SS for 30+ years all gone. And he passed away 2 years before he could officially retire.
I have wondered IF one of the small reasons (big reason was population control via fear) to force Covid was to focus on killing off those who were taking from social/government required payout funds. If the retired generations die earlier, there is much less to pay.
May not be the biggest reason, but it seems like a financial reason for governments to pull that trigger.
The pensions were gambled away for many boomers and older gen X. So the plandemic was a way to lessen that burden and hide the crimes they have committed.
Robert Kiyosaki talks about it in his book:
https://www.richdad.com/who-stole-my-pension
Also Brave New World and the The Giver are core books for high school students. It is a way to prime people to accept the offing of the elderly for the greater good.
I will need to check that book out. Thank you! I loved the Kiyosaki & Trump book, Why We Want You to be Rich
Yes when you pass whatever was left in your account should go to your children or else it’s not an investment it’s straight up theft!
You realize there is no "account" with your name on it, right?
thats is exactly how you get "120 year old recipients", btw.
It is designed to undermine the ability to build generational wealth and large families.
If you die before you collect they keep it all except a couple hundred dollars they send to the family for burial. If you only use a few years and then die, they keep it. That’s theft in my opinion. What you and your employer contributed and you don’t use, should pass to your beneficiaries.
If you die befor you use it and your children are over 21 they keep it then too
And if you die and have children under the age of 18 they will get way more in payouts than you ever put in, plus if your wife stays home to take care of them she will get paid too.
Bs! My husband died. Two of my underage kids collected almost nothing and I got nothing from his death.
Don't BS me. I worked for SSA. You do realize that it depends on what your husband paid into SS and how long he worked. If he died young and didn't have high earnings or worked in a job that didn't pay into SS then the amount you get is low.
I don’t really care where you worked. My kids were 14 and 16 when my husband died at 55. Yeah, I was the wage earner because he had shit jobs his entire life. But to give you an idea… I almost lost my house that I had purchased before I ever knew him. Imagine, how little ssa allowed in payments that I was better off without it ? Soc sec is shit. So don’t be playing that a widow with two minor children should lose her home and that’s ok. It’s not.
Well I plan to live forever...or at least for a very long time, in great health, eat right, don't take vaccines, work out at the gym 5 days a week... so I think I'll collect a lot more than I put in.
Same here.
I'm going to skip to the end-
You pay them for your entire life and they give you back 10%
Best comment yet!
Also math in the tax you pay on the Social Security you receive as well as the automatic monthly deduction you pay for Medicare from that Social Security. I’m still very irritated by that and the fact that I was promised life long free medical care from the military for 20 years, yet I am made to PAY for Medicare and then have Tricare as a secondary (which I also have to pay for so it ain’t free.). They get us coming and going.
Great reminder. Taxed on top of money that was already taxed that you are owed as if it income when it’s not income it’s a refund from what you were already taxed on. Double taxation is unconstitutional
I worked for the USPS for 27.5 years. Retired when I was 57.5 years old. I got a full Postal pension AND got SS. That is how pensions were handed out a few years ago. Plus I receive a Social Security Supplement that adds to my SS until I reach full retirement age. So I gurmess I receive around $1700/mo. With just SS. Plus at 65 I'll get a SS raise. Not bad for being a Federal employee.
Add in the amount your employer's pay in on your behalf instead of potentially giving you a higher wage.
Great point. The whole program is the ultimate in socialist style policy as is the philosophy behind it. The sheeple cannot be expected to save for their own retirements, so out of "compassionate governance" we will take some off the top and save it for them.
Oh, but we can't just give it to you when you're old enough... you have to clear a bunch of complex hurdles. And we need more money now, too much to ask from just you, so we asked your employer to make matching payments.
Which was JUST FINE back when people spent their entire careers at one or two companies.... but its KINDA GETTING COMPLICATED now that people have 1100 jobs on their resume and change jobs every 3 months...
So the company needs to steal your productivity for protection and basically treat employees like hostile actors just digging into their profit margins.... so raises and maximum wages/salaries are CAPPED because you can't afford to keep working for us and we can't afford to keep you. Sorry about that American dream I guess!
Oh and about the money, we're not going to like, invest it or anything, heck, we don't even think about stuff like the rule of 72, compounding interest, or time value of money. We do adjust payments for inflation though - once you're RECEIVING THEM, I mean - do you expect to get back an inflation-adjusted sum from the time you started to pay in? We don't have fuckin' RAIN MAN working here for crying out loud! 😂🤣😪
Why not make money on that money, you ask? Especially when most people who take charge of their own 401k or opt for an IRA (or even have any savings in today's America, LOL good joke right!?) typically put that money to work in the stock market, or even just a sad little savings account in a bank? Why don't we do any of that with SS?
Well, its because
we spent that shit! Damnit, WE LIKE spending it - hahaha its our dirty little secret - in fact, we get the Fed to print money in advance, and go ahead and SPEND the FORECAST #s of what's coming in to SS for years ahead! Can't invest what ya don't have! Oooh aint we some little devils! Tee hee...ahem. Its because Republicans want to PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY and pay their BILLIONAIRE BUDDIES on Wall Street, and give it to Jordan Balfour to gamble away on roulette stocks! They are going to bankrupt American seniors if they have their way! We have to stop them.
Sorry, I just can't help myself. 🤣😆
Don't hold back, keep it rolling, fren.
Exactly! Anytime you get a raise in Social Security, it goes away because they raise the cost of Medicare! Pretty bad when Illigals get paid more in Social Security and then get free medical besides! My wife had to work a bunch of different jobs every time we had to move to a new duty station in the Military. She now makes $700 a month in Social Security.
Wanna guess what my Dependa Ex became After our Divorce???
It sounds like Clip Prancer....
Yeah, an to get SS after getting disable by the VA seems to be hell fighting with them, an we are made to get a another full round of Doctors Opinions....
I am of the belief that our VA Ratings should simply transfer over to SS kind of in the same way that Charges transfer over directly from Cop Agency to Cop Agency....
But hey, if we didn't have the Big Green Weinnie....
It's been a scam since its inception - just another roundabout way to tax income, they found more and more ways to create versions of it over time. The original sin came in 1913 with the passing of that amendment - along with the direct election of Senators, ALSO passed in that year - and most of the complex and devastating issues we face today are actually out growths of that mischief.
The creature from Jekyll Island must also be mentioned, since its inception also happened at that time and was yet another evil wrought on the people of our country. However I actually place the Federal Reserve in a somewhat distant #3 place by comparison, because we survived previous formations of national banks, although perhaps they weren't imbued with the scope or power of the Fed.
Its commonly understood that Social Security was created at a time when there were the total population of seniors was much lower than it is today - but if it hadn't been grossly mismanaged for decades that shouldn't have been an issue.
My fundamental problem with SS is that its a BALD FACED LIE from the beginning. In theory, you're supposed to pay money into the system, and that money is held in something like a personal account for you, until you reach the age where you can then draw on it. Legally, YOU are prevented from accessing that money before that point in time.
But the $ you are getting back for your inputs to the fund are LITERALLY not the same dollars that were diverted from you to begin with. That has been true for decades now. If it's YOUR MONEY and you can't touch it, how is not ILLEGAL for the Congress to do so?
Social Security is a massive percentage of total government outlays each year. But what are they paying you with? ITS NOT YOUR MONEY THAT WENT INTO THE SYSTEM. That shit got spent LONG LONG AGO, as the Congress has been using SS as its personal government slush fund for DECADES now.
If they were going to do that, why not 1. Be honest about what ACTUALLY happens to your money once its collected from you and 2. Turn that fund into something like an interest bearing asset, i.e. invest the MASSIVE amount of money you are taking in today and are SUPPOSED TO BE RESPONSIBLE for tomorrow!? This is a MAJOR and EXTREME violation of the Oath of Office all of them take.
They are NOT good stewards of your money as they promise to be, so help them God. THEY ARE DEGENERATES, LIKE A DRUG FIEND, CONSTANTLY ROBBING PETER TO PAY PAUL. The whole REASON that SS has become a burden in government spending is because they BLEW THE MONEY long ago, and like Jared Leto's character in Requiem for a Dream, they are pouring sweat trying to pawn a fuckin' washing machine to find the cash to pay people back.
Its another scam that every American is expected to participate in, lest your patriotism be questioned. You'll never get back what you paid in, for Christs sake you don't even get the right to SEE what you've put in, and THEY GET TO dole the money out to you like its your allowance!
This is yet another example of why Trump has to go BIG on these changes and FAST. We are up against the precipice right now and if these Congressional criminals and the rest of our good Government bullshitters got their say, they would just KEEP ON KEEPING ON until one day we all would wake up and hear on the news that the US was bankrupt and NO ONE would be getting paid on time, or at all! They don't care, they would just BREAK THE ENTIRE SOCIAL CONTRACT and feel ok because they got filthy rich and made it to safety.
Just my opinion though.
It is socialized. Low income is adjusted up and higher income is adjusted down. It is the top 35 years of income. I think you get some bonus points if you max out the yearly max income number ($176,100 this year). The formula is complicated, and they don't give it out. A real challenge for me was that my wife is older than I am. And she made less money. I had her start at 62 because she would later switch to spousal. But little did I know, even with a lot of searching and calling, that her spousal amount would be lowered as well. Even though she contributed and a spouse that didn't contribute would get the full spousal amount.
I don't know the number, but I'm always surprised when I meet people who think that their SS money is tracked in some account somewhere attached to their name. SS is literally your kid's money. There's no honor in collecting it. Yours went to help your parents and is spent already.
I deeply wish I could opt out of it and provide for my kids directly. SS money isn't even invested, anyone could do better on their own.
You can compare this to the Alaskan General Fund, which Alaskans get instead of social security.
(Note: it may not be the AGF, PR maybe it's a component of the AGF, but if you research Alaska opting out of social security, you'll find it for a direct comparison of federal social security vs an actual audited investment of the same percentage of the contributors' earnings.)
Don't forget the ones who die before they can collect or the ones who die early after they start collecting payments.
Coof took care of a lot of them
That was a feature of Coof not a bug
They didn't kill enough so now they want another plandemic.
the way it goes into a fund for the ones that didnt die yet is awful. fuck other people and their dignity.
Didn't they rob the fund once & while to use on 'other' stuff then raise the tax & Medicare payments?
Yeah, that's the story, Congress was dipping into the SS Fund for Billions, and never put it back, not just once, but many times....
To be sure, I think DOGE should audit SS all the way back to about 1950 - 55, just so we know what was really going on....
And then, have to pay it back with Interest, an make it rollover into Heir Account/s....
Along with having a direct VA to SS Disabilities Transfer, which should also be rolled into Heir Account/s....
SS was raided to fund Iraq War and it has never been paid back and it should be repaid with interest.
You know who they'll come too, hat in hand, to ask for the money to pay it back right? The same people they took it from in the first place.
That is correct.
That his how they double dip the US taxpayer.
i dont know
Thanks. That’s how they fund the ponzu scheme. They do not invest it or else Nancy could grow that fund to the moon! It’s like hey gov, why not use some of that insider trading y’all be doing and save social security?
Trump's E.O. will collect those ill-gotten gains. Like Nancy said, "You can that to the bank." 😂🤣
And y’all bear with me. This will take some time. I want to be able to memorize these facts so that I can rattle them of in my sleep. The boomers are being brainwashed and it’s the only thing I can think to do to try and counter what the left has done to grandma and grandpa. They won’t give up the tv!
I can tell you what works: be self-employed and pay in as little as possible. When you retire you get a pretty generous monthly income compared to your contribution and some comparatively cheap, quality healthcare.
Yes the system was always a ripoff. At the start SS deductions were 1% of up to 3,000 in Income, so people only paid in 30 bucks a YEAR, and that has been increased to 7.65% (Health Insurance was added in and it is part of that 7.65%) Here is a link to the historic Data.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html
To collect retirement SS you need 40 quarters and you can only earn 4 per year, but a quarter has a threshold dollar amount. In 1978 50 bucks in earnings was 1 quarter, so if you earned 200 bucks over 4 quarters of the year you had met the 4 quarters for the year. Here is a link to a lot of that info.Currently 1,810 earns 1 quarter.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/QC.html
So a person qualifies for SSA retirement as soon as they have 40 quarters earned and can collect as early as age 62. Theoretically you could earn just 1 quarter a year and work 40 years to qualify, HOWEVER they calculate how much you get using your best 35 years, if you worked more than 35 they throw out the lowest years (After indexing) If you work less than 35 years the number of years less each count against your check. They use an indexing formula to weight older years of earnings up until the index for the year you reach 60 after that indexing doesn't apply. The amount of the check you receive is slightly weighted in favor of poorer earners.
Here is a chart showing FRA (Full Retirement Age)
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/nra.html
You can retire at 62, but you will get less, or wait until 70 and get extra. The Algorithm uses life expectancy as a factor trying to see that on average you collect the same over your lifetime. So at 62 you get less over more years, at 70 you get more for less years.
In my case:
I have paid in this is my 46th year, however when I was younger I worked some cash jobs in construction. So some years my on the books earnings was low. In my early 30's I missed portions of 2 years from a work injury. there are no taxes on Workers Comp. From 55 to 59 I only worked PT the last 2 years(I had non-working income) At 59 I moved abroad for 3 years with no work at all.
At the end of the 3 years abroad we returned to the USA just in time for me to Vote in the 2020 Election and sign up for my SS at 62. In late 2021 I returned to work, no effect on my SS. In 2022 I exceeded the Early Retirement Earnings Cap by almost exactly 8,000, but it wasn't until the fall of 2023 that they clawed back the 50% of over cap penalty.
In 2023 I exceeded the Earnings cap by 23,936 bucks meaning I owed back 11,918. Instead of just taking it out of my check they suspended my check (You could dispute or make payment arrangements, but DOGE changed that) I had the money so I paid it, and my check eventually resumed after 5 months. It took them 10 weeks to credit my payment. They then sent me 3,900 back.
In 2024 I exceeded the salary cap by 9,000 and am waiting for whenever they reclaim the 4,500 I owe them back.
So in 2025 I'm reaching FRA (Full Retirement Age) and the earnings cap for this partial year balloons up far passed what I can earn and they only take 1/3rd back. At Full Retirement Age there is no earnings cap work all you want.
Two good points regarding all this. 1. For every month you pay back, they suspend, or you suspend you get an increase somewhere between .6-.8% (I have trouble locating that info exactly) So in my case I will have paid back or had clawed back about 15 months. So I should get an increase in my SS check 0f 9% to 12% the month after reaching FRA (If they are late they pro rate back to that date.
You can work as long as you like and if you bump off a low earnings year you will get an increase, but since the indexing stops at age 60 it gets harder. What benefited me is that I live in a higher wage state and worked a lot of OT, but I'm planning to stop work before the end of the year, I'll be 67 and NEVER collected welfare or food stamps.
I hope this info helps you it took me almost 90 min. to write it. Kek, and questions I'll reply
Thank you for all the information you've provided. I'm kind of dizzy after reading it.😁 I have a few years until retirement but it's good to know the cap on EI while drawing an early retirement SS check.
If you don't mind working after you start collecting at 62 then I recommend just earning up to the cap. I went over the cap intentionally because of the turmoil. Basically you earn half pay once the cap is reached, but a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. The year I went over the cap I worked a lot of OT and had very little Income Tax withheld, this allowed me to stack up some real hard metal money. I also pay bills ahead and stocked up on food.
Very good advice all around and thanks for sharing.
My SS just doubled due to the SS windfall fairness act...I have a city pension and also vested in SS....they been keeping half my SS....it was biden that signed it on the way out...also I got 6 grand for back psy
word
That is very good.
Average monthly check this year nationally is $1850...
If you're going to include Medicare in this assessment, remember that payroll taxes on medicare go for Part A only. That's why whenever people get to 65 and begin their medicare coverage, they have to pay a monthly premium for Part B. Part B has never been included in the payroll tax scheme.
I personally have had to take care of my parents medicare coverage during the elder years and overall medicare coverage is actually pretty good assuming you elect to pay for the proper supplement/advantage plan benefits that you need. I'd rather see medicare payroll taxes be redone such that people whose annual taxes exceed a certain number can elect to either have future taxes for that year stopped, OR can choose to continue to pay the taxes and that then goes toward future contributions toward your Part B coverage.
Now back to the original topic OP brought up, there are a lot of ways to redo social security but ultimately I think the best approach is that government decides on a staggered redesign such as this:
People born before a certain year MUST continue to use legacy SS
People born between certain years can choose to continue legacy SS or choose to have a withdrawal of a lump sum amount. That withdrawal means that the recipient waives all future coverages such as disability and spousal support.
People born after a certain year have no SS contributions of any kind. Those people can choose to opt-in but it would be a very revised system of some kind.
You've got it wrong. The idea behind SS was and is that the money paid into the fund would generate interest, and the interest would fund the payments that you evenually collect.
It worked just fine -- even turned a profit at one point. Until the government started handing out the Social Security money to illegal aliens. That was when all the whining about how "Social Security doesn't work" began.
Every time this topic comes up, there's the usual flurry of "to hell with those useless old boomers -- let's just cut off their SS payments and give the money to US" rants.
The only "scam" and "swindle" about Social Security is that since the mid-Sixites, its retirement fund was folded into the General budget. Meaning the government can steal all it likes and hand it out to illegals. Put a complete stop to that, and SS will start looking a whole lot healthier.
No it was not! SS was never an interest-generating account fund. What is paid in by workers today is used to pay out benefits to those collecting. Part of the reason there was a surplus was because more people were working than collecting. Additionally, and everyone forgets this part, Social Security was meant to be part of a three-legged stool, meaning 1/3rd of your retirement was supposed to be SS, 1/3rd your pension and 1/3rd your savings. Tell me, who does that today?
Then came Disability. Now you have people who worked and paid in to qualify, but are no where near retirement age. This adds lots of people to the non-working and collecting roles for a much, much longer time.
You are right about SS being opened up to the general fund. The government began using Social Security funds for general operations in 1981, when Congress passed legislation allowing inter-fund borrowing, and this practice continued under subsequent presidents. If Trump stops that and gets rid of all the illegals collecting, we will be in good shape.
It's hilarious that so many people think that if they abolish SSA, then they will be able to invest the $100 or so dollars they pay each pay into a high-earning account or the stock market. If they were so damn smart they would be doing it right now and be set for retirement, but, no, they are not. They want to complain that their money is being stolen. Please. It will, in all reality, be the only thing that supports them.
I worked the call center for SSA. It is pathetic the number of people who call in and want to file at 62, because......."I'm tired of working." Hey, at 62, you are usually at the top of your earnings ability. To just stop because you are tired of working is ridiculous. I always asked if they could live on the money they were making 15-20 years ago, because they would in all likelihood live another 15-20 years. No one ever said yes. Well then, sweetie, you're gonna be in a real bind because that is gonna be your reality in the future. Then they turn 65 and Medicare kicks in. OMG, the calls bemoaning about how are they going to live because the govt is taking all their money. It was unreal.
Can you compare your findings to what a person would have in compounded savings if they had made a fixed monthly deposit for 30 years into their own private account? Great idea!
That’s the main goal fren. What a person could do themselves with just a simple trust type fund.
I bet it’s apples to seeds. Our wealth has been stolen from us and it starts in schools where we are brainwashed to just do what everybody else does.
Socialization and group cohesion, is for the birds. Everyone should be edgy and different and not be expected to learn to work together towards building a sick ass nation. It would work out just fine im sure.
All those years of being the richest most powerful country on earth were done wrong. We shoulda vibed it.
So you're saying that the Wild West had it right???
Thanks, and kudos for thinking for yourself....
i did this comparison 50 years ago....much better to invest yourself. However, what I personally, subsequently, learned was when times got financially tough ( like the Carter Administration years of 22% interest) I needed to use the accumulated SS monthly savings for supporting my family. I think if my monthly reinvestment had been into an untouchable long term Bond or CD-we would be having very Happy Retirement Years now. I applaud you for doing this.
Think if all the payments boomers paid weren't stolen by both parties
You're assuming that people or their pension plans know how to invest.
I had two friends who retired at the same time after working 30 years. One made roughly 100k per year as a manager. The other was an ER doctor making 3-400k per year. They both got the same amount per month 1700-1800. How is this possible?
That's how it is on the upper end. Social security favors lowest income earners the most.
But even then the lowest income earners still will struggle because they do not have anything beyond social security (eg 401k/Roth IRA, etc).
I have been saying this for years. Social Security is 100% in opposition to the principles our Constitutional Republic was founded upon. It was introduced as a temporary measure, and was limited to just a small group of WW2 veterans, to begin with.
It was quickly made into another source of revenue for government that is not allowed by the Constitution, but they manipulated the SCOTUS to give it approval.
Congress has been dipping into the SS funds for decades.
They steal money from Americans all the time. For instance, if a married couple both worked full time all their lives, but one dies, the survivor only gets to choose one of the "benefits", and the other is stolen by the government.
It is time to eliminate Social Security, and the Social Security Administration. This could be done by establishing a "cut-off" age. Anyone over that age gets to finish out their Social Security payments. Anyone under that age gets all of the money they put in over the years refunded in a lump sum payment that is not taxed. They would also receive a full refund of their spouses contributions, if they are deceased. This could easily be funded by reducing the federal government to the size and scope the founding fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution. Eliminate all departments, all agencies, all programs, all projects, and all roles not specifically delegated to government through the Constitution. End all forms of welfare, including foreign aid, corporate aid, and domestic welfare programs. This would eliminate most unconstitutional spending. It will also shrink the government back to the size and scope originally intended. All departments and delegated powers that belong to the States would then be funded 100% by those States, and with no federal dollars. Anyone that did not pay into SS would not get SS. Once the unconstitutional / socialist program finishes paying out, then it would be forever abolished.
And then we can go back to the poor house or the work houses because no one is smart enough or disciplined enough to save for retirement!
That is not a government problem to solve. Certainly not with other people money.
If I collect for 20 years I'll make approx 500k. My portion of payment was around 100k my employers contributed about 240k. If that money had all been invested properly since I started working in 1978 I would might have had at least a million but likely more than that. So yes it's a rip off.
So did you invest on you own and how much have you made off of those investments?
I can't remember where I read this, but the return on your money that goes into social security has a annual return of minus 4 percent.
The problem with just ending it is that people working are paying for the people who retired. I worked and paid in for those collecting before me, why should I starve?
However SS was not created to be your only income, it was intended to add to whatever else you have going on. Owning your own home free of a mortgage is a boon and so are Pensions, 401K, 403B, and IRAs, Other investments as well. Some old people have it going on financially.
The original intent was to help out no or low income earners to have some money for old age.
Those with middle class incomes or higher had pensions. Over time as pensions slowly went away social security and then 401k carried the larger burden of even carrying middle income earners through retirement years.
My Grandparents, both born in the 1890s, were getting around 50 bucks a month SS, but My gram had 1 pension, while my pop had 2. All in they had about 300-350 a month coming in circa 1970.
Are you doing SS Disability too, or just retirement age?
Already I feel like Apostle Paul! Too much study hath made thee mad! Ugh lol
Oh please people. Do the math.
Look at your Social Security Statement. It will tell you how much you have paid into the system.
I'll use mine as an example. It says that I have paid in a little over $83,000, and my employer, $85,000. So 83 thousand plus 85 thousand is $168,000 paid into SSA. If I am drawing $2200 a month, that means it will take a little over 76 MONTHS before I withdraw all the money I and my employers paid into SSA.
To put it a little bit clearer, that means that in a little over 6 YEARS, I will have withdrawn ALL the money I have paid into SSA.
If I had a spouse collect half as many, many men have done, then your contributions are spent a hell of a lot faster.
Don't know about all income brackets, but I will need to collect benefits for 10 years to recoup withholdings from my lifetime. I am currently 67. I started collecting about 6 months before full retirement age, because again, 10 years to get back forfeited benefits in terms of a higher monthly benefit.
What about the intrest they were supposed to make on your money and its benefit to you?
The inflation adjustment they make are way too low. IRS does the same thing with low balling inflation adjustments.
What are you talking about?
Is "don't work" the only remedy to not participate in the fraudulent mandatory SS system?
My husband earned +/- 96000 per year. He husband collects a bit under $2000/month.
That's way too low of a monthly SS check for a consistent high paying job. Must have had a lot of low or no paying years that had to be included in the formula.
The lowest he earned was $75000 for a few years. Hmm, maybe he should tell SS that they should recalculate his monthly payment.
For me, that would be impossible without a 50+ year spreadsheet. The tax, itself, changed several times over that period in both the percentage of income taxed and the rate of taxation (increases were set via legislation which set withholding increases for future dates, without congressional action. This meant increases were not noticed by tax payors). I can tell you I have paid into Medicare from the day of its inception and its cost is so prohibitive we simply can't afford it.
Oh yes. We forget that our employer paid an equivalent amount, which was reflected in your pay.
Don’t forget that their employer puts in the same amount.
It's quite obvious from the comments here that the majority of you have no idea how Social Security works or is funded and it shows. What makes it even worse is you have bought into the DEMOCRAT talking point of how SSA is bad and stealing all your money.
The fact of the matter is that you will more likely than not withdraw WAY MORE money than you ever put in, especially if you have a spouse that is going to collect half of your benefit amount for little to no work.
Most people understand that is it is the year 2025 and it is not common for a spouse to not work in USA.
Using unique circumstances to convey that is how SS works in totality is misleading. For most people they will not collect SS in full with what they paid into it.
The greatest beneficiaries of SS as it has been stated by others and yourself is lowest income earners and widowed spouses with children under 18. In other words a minority of social security recipients.
But the vast majority of social security recipients fail to break even with what they put in and that is the reality.
No idea where you get that info from, but as someone who worked for SSA, you are totally wrong.
If that is true you would have provided what you know by now.
The truth is that the official full retirement age is 67 for a lot of the upcoming population in the next two decades. And for most people to receive full benefits and receive in return what they paid in they would have to outlive average life expectancy for men and women respectively.
Are there any math wizards here or someone good at making graphs? I don’t use A.I. it scares the beejeebies out of me or I’d ask it to help.
Stop.
Just use AI.
Seriously.
There was also a point in time we're putting your credit card information on the internet to purchase something with something you wouldn't do because it scared the crap out of you. There was a point in time that automobiles scared people with horse drawn carriages.
It's just a large language model and kind of like a search engine that get you what you're looking for with one result instead of thousands cuz it's already done the work.
Try gab.ai it's free. (That's the website)
Nope! Automobiles don’t have the ability to become self aware.
See this is the point where you would have been better off asking a question of someone that seemingly knows more about this subject than you do instead of saying something like you just did which just shows that you're completely ignorant on what these particular systems are.
A large language model can't become self-aware. The website I directed you to is simply a large language model.
You're thinking of some concept of AI you've gotten from movies and making an entire category error.
In this situation it's basically the equivalent of saying "I'm not going to bother to learn another language because I might get deported if I do"
Stay ignorant or learn and grow.
Good day.
You are the kind of anon that instead of encouraging growth for those willing to learn, grow, and use what they can to make a difference that actually tear people down. You are no better than a leftist, smug, arrogant, self righteous idiot.
You weren't willing to learn. When the opportunity to learn and grow was right in front of you you declined it and instead decided to make personal attacks and the spread ignorance.
I took time out of my day too try to teach you something and give you a tool to help you reach your desired goal. Basically I handed you a fishing rod and tried to teach you how to fish. How did you respond to that exactly?
Go take a look in the mirror. Tell yourself that technology has passed you by and you can either be left behind or you can set your pride aside and try to catch up when people were genuinely trying to help you.
Do better