I'll probably be crapped on by some, but that's fine. This is an emotional thing so I get that some people are having a hard time staying calm when they're worried about themselves and their families.
Thankfully I live in an area that is basically geographically protected from all this, so the only thing I had to worry about was the wind, which is why I've been monitoring cloud and wind patterns obsessively the past few weeks. But that threat has long since passed (I'll get to that later). So since I can provide a moderately objective view on things, I decided to put my autism into overdrive and put in some extra effort. Mainly since I'm annoyed by everyone on here, truth social, twitter, etc. spreading these doomsday prophecies about the event.
Now let me preface with this. THIS WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO SWING FROM A ROPE FOR IT. But it's not as bad as is being made out. It's bad, but not a doomsday scenario.
So let's start with the very first thing no one seems to understand. IT IS THE OHIO RIVER AND THE OHIO RIVER ALONE THAT IS CONTAMINATED.
All these maps you see on social media and on here, are water basin maps. That covered area (except for the Ohio River itself), is almost entirely tributaries. Tributaries are inside of drainage basins. Meaning they FEED INTO the river, and are safe from contamination from the Ohio River because it's impossible for the chemicals to flow back upstream due to gravity.
Case in point, this map:
https://files.catbox.moe/1k4obt.jpg
I drew over the river and tributaries brighter colors so you can more easily see them. But that map puts my first point into perspective. Literally 95% of the area everyone keeps saying holds 10% of the US population, or 74 Million People, or "the most fertile farmland in the country" is part of the tributary system and doesn't get water directly from the Ohio River itself.
So there's one point made. Let's get to point two. The Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River.
The Appalachians basically act as a giant barrier for this entire disaster. Case in point, this Map:
https://files.catbox.moe/jdq9nc.jpg
As we all know, water flows to lower elevations. Ergo this fear that everything is going to somehow spread beyond the Ohio River are looking at this wrong. It can't spread east very far since the Appalachian Mountains make that impossible. Instead we should worry more about what'll happen when it finally feeds into the Mississippi river. Because that's where this is heading.
Her's a map:
https://files.catbox.moe/8i4tfr.png
So as you can see, the Ohio River will eventually feed into the Mississippi. Which is where the real worry should be, but literally no one has mentioned this yet. Right now, the catastrophic damage is basically contained to East Palestine, with moderate damage being done to communities right on the the edge of the Ohio River in Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia. But once it hits the Mississippi then it starts hitting Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi before finally being dumped into the gulf.
So if we can contain it before it hits the Mississippi then we can minimize the damage, which brings me into my next map and point. Dams:
https://files.catbox.moe/wkla5w.jpg
There are no less than 16 different dams we can use to at least slow down and control the spread of this along the Ohio river, upstream from East Palestine. So all is not lost yet, in that regards, but the fact this hasn't even been entertained yet shows that these evil pieces of crap are trying to make this worse than it has to be.
Finally, the groundwater, farmland, and rain. I know that outside of those immediately in harms way, this is everyone's biggest concern. So I present you with 2 maps, 2 scientific studies, a weather radar, and a distance calculator:
https://files.catbox.moe/05x3hr.jpg
https://files.catbox.moe/gpzo05.jpg
https://open.maricopa.edu/physicalgeology/chapter/14-2-groundwater-flow/
https://wellwater.oregonstate.edu/groundwater/understanding-groundwater/groundwater-movement
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/national/wind-flow
Alright, now with all that available, let's discuss everyone's biggest concerns. The Ohio river runs across the southern border of Ohio, and more or less forms the border with West Virginia and Kentucky. Now at first it may seem like the elevation of ground water reservoirs in Ohio leads credence to the theory that Ohio groundwater is screwed, but that's not the case for multiple reasons.
First of all, notice how there seems to be deeper groundwater table on the southern and eastern part of the state where the Ohio River and more importantly, east palestine are. This is a good thing, as it means that to contaminate the ground water in the rest of the state outside of the immediate disaster area, it'd have to flow upwards, which again, the law of gravity prevents from happening.
And even if the water DOES somehow travel upwards, the scientific studies I provided both point out that it takes, years, sometimes decades or centuries, for groundwater to naturally travel more than a few miles. So the majority of the state is safe in the short-medium term. And hopefully we can clean this mess up completely before it even becomes a factor for most of the state.
Now let's look at the second map. The prime farmland map from Ohio Department of Agriculture. I admit, it's an older map, but I had a hard time finding one up to date, and it still proves my point regardless.
All the prime farmland in Ohio is near the great lakes in the north and northeast portion of the state. There is SOME farmland that will probably be affected by this, but overall, the Cornbelt is safe since it's both geographically separated, and the ground water contamination is far enough away from the disaster area and river that contamination would take literal decades or centuries from the groundwater, if it's even possible, which I don't believe it is.
Finally, the weather radar and distance calculator. The doom cloud is everyone's next biggest concern, and I can safely say, it's already floating over the Atlantic and has probably been dispersed over the ocean. Clouds travel anywhere from 30-100 miles per hour in a straight line depending on the type of cloud, and the furthest land point the doom cloud would have effected based on wind patterns was DC.
DC is roughly 370 Miles from East Palestine, so at the lowest possible travel speed it would have taken 13 days to reach the atlantic. The derailment occured 14 days ago today. And keep in mind, this is at THE LOWEST POSSIBLE SPEED. It's entirely possible that the cloud traveled faster and ended up in the atlantic earlier.
Likewise, I've been monitoring rain patterns over the areas that the doom cloud would have traveled over, and from what I can tell, there was almost no rainfall on land, outside of a few small storms in Pennsylvania. And it's debatable whether they were even doom cloud rain or not, since I have no means of confirming or denying it.
But regardless, the amount of rainfall in the doom cloud path, was negligible, and if it WAS doom cloud rain, the amount that fell was so insignificant that it's debatable if it would have a long term effect on the local land and wildlife. Keep in mind, these same chemicals were spilled in New Jersey in smaller amounts, and the long term effects were basically non-existent.
So in conclusion, yes this is bad. Yes it's horrible people are suffering. It will probably effect a few 100K people. But this is NOT the apocalyptic, end of the world scenario it's being made out to be. Millions of people are not going to die from chemical poisoning. The second largest break basket in the United States is not now barren land. And half the groundwater in the Eastern US is not now unsafe.
Also, as a sidenote, I'm sorry for using Maricopa University and University of Oregon studies as a reference, but I it's all I could find on short notice, and I have other things I have to do IRL. I just didn't want to start making claims without anything to back it up.
EDIT: I found a few NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) Maps from February 7th and 8th that show the Doom cloud and it's trajectory, that further support my point on the doom cloud. Though I will admit, it spread further north than what I was expecting when I was tracking it. All the way into Maine and Canada. So there may have been more rain from it than I originally estimated. It's something for fellow pedes to look into. Though I still don't think that it would be enough to hurt anything long term even if it did rain since it would have been heavily diluted at that point.
If anything, this just means we should be more concerned about about the North East than the South East, since it's more likely they will be effected medium to long term than the Ohio and Mississippi river basin.
Thanks for the rational take.
It's obviously a terrible thing that shouldn't be allowed to happen, but people are getting carried away. This incident is not going to turn the Mississippi watershed into a wasteland.
But Bubba's shrimp boat!
Seriously, as OP said, this area (and the delta) may be the biggest impact. And that could be mitigated. The fact that this isn't mentioned makes me suspect the whole thing was intentional but I don't have that tinfoil hat strapped on tightly.
Okay. I’ll Sticky this up since the post and research were thought out for the current situation and info.
Brent, this is really good research for people who are needing to know more about the water flow etc.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/being-exposed-to-just-1-32-millionth-of-a-gram-of-dioxins-is-your-maximum-lifetime-allowable-exposure/
I pray you are correct but still 100,000 people is too many.this didn't have to be this way.. It was absolutely unprecedented to just burn all that shit like that. Remember they had alternative methods they refused to consider because it would have kept that rail road blocked "too long"
Also, derailments aren't "unavoidable." Somebody on .win is claiming that and it's an entirely wrong mindset.
Mitigation in the Mississippi (and it's delta) should be done and is being neglected!
Derailments aren't unavoidable yes Opening up secure cars to release and burn a deadly chemical is
They weren't secure. The liquid vinyl chloride was overpressurizing from the fire's heat. Doing nothing would have let them explode and release ALL of the vinyl chloride, which would become a poison gas heavier than air and blanket the ground for God knows how far.
They have ways to cool them and then you bury it while containing it but it takes a long time to remove it... They prioritized removing it at the cost of chemically nuking the north eastern part of the country
I read that if it wasn't burned it would have wound up in the atmosphere anyway, but I know 0 details about that.
Don't believe it. They could have contained it and rolled up tanker trucks to try and transfer as much as possible, minimizing the spread. Costly, of course; wonder where the profit-eaters live, was the Panem capital in Utah or something like that?
👍
This is what I thought. Capture what you can. Part of why I think it's intentional.
Then we see it's law that contaminated land can be bought by the government and the residents relocated.
The Mississippi River is the dumping ground for industrial plants all the way up the river, so it's not surprising that there is no mitigation.
Is this stuff any worse than what's usually dumped into it? I know it's polluted as all get out (and then they wonder why the delta and Gulf fishing industries suffer) but for some reason I expect this isn't normal fare.
Anyone remember Love Canal. The amount of pollution dumped into the rivers of the US prior to 1973 makes this spill like like a glass of spilled milk.
Love Canal was a waterway in New York where industrial waste was dumped daily, and one day the waterway caught fire. In Love Canal toxic waste including polychlorinated biphenyls, dioxin, and pesticides were dumped totaling 22,000 tons. One day the canal caught on fire and people woke up. The US Government created the EPA to set standards to prevent pollution of the air, water, and ground. So the US companies moved off-shore to create the chemicals and products to skirt the US environmental laws (remember US Carbide and Bhopal India?)
While this is a bad accident, it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the poisons that have been dumped in years past. The good thing is that over time all the chemicals bread down from UV light, bacterial action, molds, etc. In the short term it is a problem to be dealt with.
I don't know specifically what chemicals are already being dumped, but this additional dumping probably doesn't help.
Right! The worst of it was before 1973, but let's not go backwards.
Thank you for doing this. There are certainly a number of GAW members trying to make internet points out of fear mongering and criticizing reasonable assessments of this situation. The truth is pretty close to what you have summarized.
One thing that needs to be taken into account is the scale of the river. Yes right when it happens the contamination is super high at the site, but the further it spreads the more it is literally "watered down". This is a local catastrophe but not a world ender
I don’t think China cares about their citizens health.
Granted, neither does our government , but I don’t think the Chinese people there are fine… not that the Chinese government will publish any trustworthy health status.
How many babies do they kill annually for being imperfect?
This disaster seems worse than all of the fracking done combined.
Why are they sweeping this chemical spill under the carpet yet whine and whale about the environmental dangers of fracking?
Archived. https://archive.ph/QWnHh
My you have been a busy lil' anon.
And a BTW storms have inserted Mother Nature into the mix last night / early this morning. That should give us a decent flush of feeder creeks and tributaries.
One thing hardly anyone is considering, is the sheer amount of water the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers contain. Yes, vinyl chloride in water is bad. Yes, all the other chemicals that train was carrying that has leeched into the Ohio River area are bad.
BUT, with the amount of water both rivers contain, most likely thos chemicals will be sufficiently diluted down to th poitn where, as they travel downstream, the potential ha mful effects will be mitigated to a point where they won't be as harmful as a lot of people are dooming over.
Mr Cathole. "Respectfully" - What a fantastic post ! Thank You for all your hard work. I spent some time looking through your post taking it all in , and , i kept reading that in the grand scheme - that this is not the end of the world. "It could be worse" . . . Just a thought ! Question : Have you ever been divorced ??? to a person who turned into a vengeful monster - who cheated / lied / sabotaged / stole / used the children as a weapon / threatened your life - seriously / I could go on ??? Question ; Could you ever IMAGINE how far reaching those negative tentacles could reach into the future ??? How deep they could burro in ??? "IF" you have never been divorced - "You Have No IDEA" . . . I'm pretty SURE that this train derailment will have disastrous negative impacts that will far exceed our life times. Far exceed our children's lifetimes. On the flip side - Your optimism and valuable information is a wealth of much needed help. "Fantastic Post".
Yes and how did you know that.
Good post. The long term concern is with the liquid Butyl acrylate, Ethylhexyl acrylate, and Ethylene glycol monobutyl that spilled onto the ground and in streams. The amount spilled versus getting burned up is the big unknown. The long term effect of these chemicals getting into the water table is very troublesome. The immediate area around East Palestine is ground zero for tainted ground water. As it travels toward the Ohio River, it will show up, but not as concentrated. If not dealt with immediately and thoroughly, the ground water in the immediate area will be affected and the water shed for years to come.
There are many questions and unknowns starting with how much was burned up and how much was spilled on the ground. If the ground in that region is frozen a slower rate of seepage buys time for removing the toxic layer of soil. I live by an old army base that allowed hundreds of barrels of chemicals to leak into the ground water. Right now, it appears in East Palestine that large equipment is removing the top soil and loading it up in trucks. This is what they did on the army base in my area. After 30 years, the ground water is contaminated. The land sits idle. No one wants to build on it because of the liability.
Great analysis of the situation. Thank you
Appreciate the effort good info.
The earth is way more resilient than the globalists would have us believe.
I fully believe this was absolutely no accident. But which is worse though, burning it and putting toxins in the air or the liquid leaking directly into rivers and getting into the water table?
This is why I come here for info. Awesome post.👍
Where does the Ohio river go?
What do you mean? If you mean where it ends, it feeds into the Mississippi river.
Not a doomer, Mississippi R.> Gulf of Mexico> Gulf Stream near & around FL> up the East coast>to the British Isles. Also there are other chemical spills, chem trails on & on. 528 Jan 13, 2018 10:59:16 PM EST Q !UW.yye1fxo ID: 000000 No. 16 YOU and YOUR FAMILIES ARE SAFE. PROMISE. Q (A promise is a promise)
The amount of chemicals in negligible in the Gulf of Mexico. It'd be like taking an eye dropper and dropping a few drops of vinegar into a bathtub full of water. While it may not evaporate since I don't think it get's hot enough in the gulf to do that, it'll disperse to such a degree thanks to water physics that by the time it gets to Florida, the east coast, and ESPECIALLY the british isles, the amounts in the water will be so infinitesimally small, you'll probably be more likely to have adverse health effects from eating a fish caught in the great lakes and getting heavy metal poisoning.
Saltwater is very good at neutralizing...........
WOW! OP, this is amazing research! I've looked over all your maps that you included, and they were very helpful. I live in central IN, so I'm much relieved about the direction of the cloud/air. Our drinking water here isn't from the Ohio River Thank God. I did notice that the most prime farmland in Ohio was in the central and upper NW part of the state so that's a great relief. Thanks for this awesome information.
Dilution is the solution to pollution. 😊
You are a true fren, for taking the time to write this.
I cannot read this now. But I promise I will. Updoot and salute.
First of all, there's a difference between localized wind, and wind currents. Wind currents always follow the same pattern and hardly, if ever change. The only time they ever change is with large cyclical events, like El Nino. So even if the wind changes in your localized area, the overall wind drift is still going to push it in a specific, and predictable direction.
Second of all, I never claimed to be an expert on literally anything here. So I won't comment on anything I don't know about.
Thirdly, of course if you live in any of the effected areas you should have your water tasted, that's common sense.
EDIT: Accidentally hit save before I was done.
Fourthly From my understanding all the chemicals that were dumped, have a boiling temperature of at least 82 degrees Fahrenheit. And there's not a single body of water in North America that gets that hot, even in the summer. So none of this will evaporate with the water.
Fifthly, I'll give you a comparison. You say this stuff is toxic at 1 ppm (parts per million), so anyone who even touches the water or soil is a walking hazmat. Yet, for decades nearly every major river and lake in the USA has had an abundance of mercury contamination. Mercury is toxic at 2 ppb (parts per billion). So it's even more toxic, and there's more of it in the water. Yet, you never hear of anyone being a walking hazmat after walking through a contaminated river, or swimming in a contaminated lake, etc.
As for the rest of the points, well as I said, I'm not expert, so I won't comment since I have literally no idea, and I'd rather not comment on something I have literally zero knowledge over.
But overall, I maintain that while this is an environmental disaster, it's less of an end of the world scenario, and more chemical land based version of the BP oil spill.
Still horrible and someone needs to pay for it, but not a doomsday scenario.
Well it wasn't meant to convey that. People in the immediate area SHOULD be worried and take every precaution possible. This isn't the time to be complacent.
Now as for your counter-counter points (enjoying the civil discussion for once lol), I will stand corrected. One of the four Chemicals has a boiling point of 7 degrees. The other three however, are all well over 100 degrees. Funnily enough, the only one with a boiling point below 82 was the one you specifically mentioned lol. Though you are right, to become water soluble it has to be boiled to 82 degrees. So I'll be honest, I have no idea what that means. Will the surrounding water keep it cool enough, or will the residual heat from the water allow it to boil? This is something someone who actually knows what they're talking about should look into, and I'll be the first one to admit that. I'd assume that for it to form another doom cloud, it'd have to reach 82 degrees and become water soluble in order to combine with the water molecules that form the rain clouds, but as I said, I won't say that for certain since it's outside of my field of knowledge.
But you for a few sauces, so here's one for each confirmed chemical to be part of the train derailment.
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/2-Butoxyethanol#section=Odor
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/2-Ethylhexyl-acrylate#section=Color-Form
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Butyl-acrylate#section=Odor
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Vinyl-Chloride#section=Odor
For reference, just control + F and search boil to get past all the science nerdery. As for the oil comparison, I admit not the best, but I can't really think of anything else to compare it to since it's NOT a Chernobyl event. And that's what I mean by the doomsday stuff. A lot of people seem to be laboring under the impression that the cabal has basically won with this one event. That it doesn't matter if we win the war, since they'll get their revenge from beyond the grave because they've irreparably damaged our ecosystem and destroyed half of the most productive cropland in the United States, all while irreparably contaminating our water supply and air supply, thus ensuring we'll all die a horrendous slow death and ensuring their revenge from beyond the grave.
That's simply not what's happened here. I don't doubt it was essentially a cabal terrorist attack under the guise of an "accident", but it's not an end of civilization event, like so many seem to be under the impression it is.
Finally, the mercury comparison. You're missing the point. I was pointing out that we've had massive amounts of mercury in every major body of water for decades now. And we consume it regularly. What I missed because I had a brain fart (I'm tired and sleep deprived, sue me), is that the FDA (spoiler alert they're feeding you poison), allows for an "acceptable" mercury content of 1 ppm of mercury for seafood and drinking water.
So every time you drink water from a river or eat seafood from a river, you're probably getting 500 times the toxic dosage of Mercury, as per the EPA and FDA's own guidelines.
The reason I made the mercury comparison, is because it's much more toxic that the chemicals being dumped, and many people consume of it to kill them 500 times over on the regular. With that in mind, and as u/SuckaFree pointed out, the sheer amount of water in the Ohio and Mississippi, and eventually the gulf if it gets that far, will dilute this stuff to such an extent, that, you'll probably die from mercury poisoning before you die from Vinyl Chloro-whatever poisoning.
East Palestine is screwed. Period. There's no argument to be made there. It'll soon become a dead ghost town in the next decade or so unless a miracle occurs. But everywhere else along the Ohio and Mississippi river isn't anywhere near as effected.
Also, found a few new maps I'll add to the post. Feel free to look since they show the wind pattern for February 7 and February 8 that the doom cloud was taking as per the NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration). Which shows my point about the doom cloud trajectory. It hadn't' quite spread to DC at that point, but well halfway through New York at the time.
Though I will admit, I did not expect or see anything in my monitoring the past couple weeks that would have led me to believe it would hit Canada, but apparently it was all the way up into Maine and parts of Canada right before it finally hit the Atlantic Ocean and got caught up in the wind streams.
Just a minor correction for point 4. A "boiling point" is the condition when a liquid's vapor pressure is equal to the ambient pressure (sea level standard). Evaporation takes place all the time. We have all seen puddles of rainwater evaporate and go away. Has the temperature ever been 212 deg F? Never. We would be dead if that were so, and there would be no natural evaporation.
A boiling point of 82 deg F is a volatile chemical that will evaporate quickly. We're all familiar with acetone and how quickly it evaporates? It has a boiling point of 133 deg F, far higher than 82 deg F. The left-over volatiles will all evaporate.
As for point 5 (toxicity), you have to be careful what you are citing. The mean lethal concentration for phosgene (a vinyl chloride combustion product) in air is 500 ppm. The recommended exposure limit is 0.1 ppm. It is probably unlikely that anyone will suffer death from direct exposure. Dilution makes all the difference.
Not a chemistry expert, so I'll concede to the obvious chem major lol. But in my mind, that just makes my point even more true, even if it wasn't in the way I originally thought. Water dilution is one thing, but air dilution......well, there's a reason hydrogen is literally the most abundant element on earth. There's so much volume in the open atmosphere, that it's virtually impossible to die from air based toxin exposure unless your on ground zero to a gas bomb or toxic fume fire, in which case I guess East Palestine is screwed and those people need to do everything in their power to get justice.
And if I'm understanding you right, you're saying the Vinyl Chloride gas isn't as toxic as we've been thinking it was, and you need roughly 5,000 times more than we've been quoting for it to effect you in gaseous form? Or am I misunderstanding whta you've said? Cause if that's right, then this is a whole lot less of a problem than I thought outside of ground zero, and possibly some of the areas the doom cloud was in.
It's the old story that the dose makes the poison. We ingest things commonly that do not kill us---but could at the wrong dose. Oxygen, for example. Breathing pure oxygen at sea level pressure can kill us. Salt is another example. We would die from drinking salt water. Water is another example. We would die from drinking too much (dilution of the nerve electrolytes).
Same thing in reverse for poisonous substances. At a low enough level, they can be innocuous. The poison gases used in World War I were only left to dissipate in air, but they did not last very long at all. The poor biosphere may munch on them. UV light may break them down. I'm not a toxicologist, but the answer is to read up on the subject and pay attention. (Don't always trust your nose. It takes 4 times the lethal level before you can smell phosgene. And one of the first signs of hydrogen sulfide poisoning---rotten egg smell---is the disabling of the sense of smell.)
Thank you for posting this. This should actually be stickied, and it brings back level headed assessment.
Again, thank you.
It's bad, but however bad it actually is, I have to treat "those that were in charge of such things " WORSE
It appears the Teays Valley Aquifer that feeds water to most of the southern counties of the region has a water recharge zone at the west and the water flows east in this aquifer. Creeks fed by the Ohio could have problems, but at least the primary drinking water seems solid except for a serious pollution situation in Pike County from some dump they built there and are excessively dumping radiation into the environment: https://www.energy.gov/management/articles/portsmouth-site-breaks-ground-waste-disposal
All the satire posts and websites confuse people because they sometimes sound like reality. I think that’s where some of the over reaction comes from. At least Babylon Bee is farcical enough for people to figure it out.
If liberals have an important role in the clean up or management of this disaster, then it will become WAY worse.
Never ever let libs control a bad situation. They break fucking everything or make it worse. People who still vote for libs are absolutely brain dead people that should be laughed at and shamed out of existence.
These are the enemies of this country. The liberal "progressives" who don't progress shit.
Idk intentionally killing and maiming 100,000people then leaving them without any support while covering the whole thing up and is pretty fucking evil. This take doesn’t seem rational at all
I mean they want to ban cow farts but this is just nothing to see here just 100,000 poisoned Americans.
Uh, not sure where you're going here. I never defended them, in fact I literally called for them to be lynched and executed for this. I just pointed out that this isn't as widespread as everyone seems to believe it is. It's far more localized, but still unacceptable.
No intentional killing and maiming. Get your evidence before you start making allegations of malice. Has anyone died yet? Who has been maimed? If people are not experiencing any symptoms, they probably have not been poisoned. Cathole953 has it right: way too much ignorant panic on this board.
You’re really that confident that none of those carcinogens this post admitted would affect the land of approximately 100thousand people isn’t equivalent to killing or maiming?
Perhaps the people who die of jab symptoms or cancer from the jab also weren’t killed or maimed from the jab simply because it didn’t happen immediately when the poison was administered
It is deliberate genocide when they deliberately endanger people by covering up their crimes and looking out for corporate interests over the safety of people
You’re defending the people responsible for a literal environmental catastrophe and have no concern for the people who’s lives are being affected by this and not to mention the wildlife that has died as a result but your right there’s no poison
You are laying deaths and maiming on me when nothing like that has been reported---which really makes it an imaginary accusation. But you are good with it.
I am saying there is no confidence on ANY side until there is measurement of the levels in air and water. That means you don't get to accuse anyone of murder until there is a corpus delecti.
This is an accident, not a public policy, so there are no parallels to the "vaccine."
Was there a crime? Name it. And what was "covered up" when essentially everything that happened has been in public notice? Who is "they"? You are hyperventilating.
From what I have seen, I would put a finger on the railroad company, because they were responsible for the Michigan derailment, too. Poor track maintenance leads to derailments, and video clips and photos have now surfaced of the dreadful condition of the rail lines in Ohio. Interesting problem if this arose from the bad economic environment of the Covid lockdowns---and possibly the requirement to operate because it was an "essential service." Don't run the trains and don't get any food to large cities. So, you decide to take dangerous cargoes because you can't afford to be picky, running next to red. I don't know that this was the case, but it seems quite plausible to me.
Have you had to breathe sulfur dioxide growing up in a small city? Have you had to breathe ammonia leaking from a canning plant's refrigeration system? Have you had to enter a work environment fill of tolulene vapor? Don't lecture me on the undesirability of breathing toxic chemicals. I've been there and done that.
1, not hyperventilating. Also people ARE reporting illnesses so your just wrong
2, Wow just a string of strawman arguments that I never made fucking pathetic,
media black out for 2 weeks before this hit mainstream news followed by basically “nothing to see here” and the government hangs these people out to dry with out is a literal cover up, not to mention Reporters have been arrested for trying to report it when the event occurred
And it’s CONFIRMED the chemicals were converted into carcinogens and then burned into the air
it’s affected the wildlife
we don’t know who will get cancer until many years later and as this very post admits that’s 100k people which is an insane amount of people you probably can’t even picture that many people lined up in your feeble mind
I didn’t blame you for anything? I simply remarked that it’s a fact they spilled the chemicals as a result of shit infrastructure and known decisions made by government at the behest of lobbyists. It is know. The rail company cut corners on safety while turning record profits this includes not haveing a proper braking system despite carrying bigger heavier loads on the same worn out tracks
blaming Covid for the infrastructure is a joke we sent 100 billion to Ukraine just last year and today they won’t send any aid to our own country
so what if you’ve experienced contaminated environment? That's would mean you should be understanding of how these people must feel and how they've been hung out to dry and here you are trying to downplay and make excuses for the biden admin for prioritizing another country over our own and for refusing to do anything to protect the climate the demonrats claim to care so much about
You're obviously a shill your post is loaded with strawman arguments I never made
Then let's go over your arguments here.
Dead animals (foxes and chickens) have also been reported. No surprise if phosgene was produced. It is heavier than air and hugs the ground. In one of my earlier comments I lamented that the officials did not warn the public of this problem.
A matter of opinion, but you were indeed throwing things at me, just as you are here.
Of course there is media suppression. This throws the administration in a bad light (Buttigieg). But it is not complete, and information is coming out.
The only carcinogen identified was the vinyl chloride, which was supposed to have been consumed by combustion. The combustion byproducts (phosgene and hydrogen chloride) are nasty but not carcinogenic. It is not clear whether the other cargo was involved in the breach. There is plenty of sheer ignorance abounding on the chemicals at issue and their toxicity. (Chemicals were not "converted into carcinogens and then burned." You are an example of the ignorance I am referring to.)
Back to point 1.
No, we don't know. Nor do we know if they will ever get cancer. It is time for concern, but not for panic.
You put me as standing with any culprits responsible. Don't expect me to take that in a friendly light. An accident may have multiple causes. If the journal box hadn't caught fire, the accident may not have resulted in a threat from an exploding vinyl chloride tank. If the derailment hadn't happened, the problem may still have evolved farther down the track. Was the infrastructure "shit"? We (meaning you and me), don't yet know---but I have pointed out that the rails in Ohio are apparently notorious for being barely functional. Why is that? Corporate greed? Or being forced to operate under the edict of being an "essential service" when times are tough, personnel may be hard to come by, expenses have to be curtailed, and it is difficult to turn down cargo if you need the money. You tell me how you would handle that situation---and then go run a railroad. In any case, Norfolk Southern is the responsible party.
There was no identified problem with the braking system, nor any indication that braking was a component of the accident. You are possibly feeding off the B.S. that the government is making about a safety rule that Trump had relaxed. It was a rule that, had it remained in place, would not have affected this train at all. You are jumping at shadows.
I can easily blame Covid for the many small businesses that have locally gone bankrupt, and the shortage of labor in the remaining ones. That has nothing to do with the Ukraine. That problem, by the way, was due to overweening government mandates, so I don't know why you call it an "excuse." It doesn't excuse what the government did to our economy and industry.
So what if I know what I am talking about? says the man who has had the pleasure of breathing clean air all his life. Yes, that means I do have compassion for those who are affected---but I am not so much an idiot as to imagine they are all "affected" when they may only be inconvenienced. I work in industry and it remains to be seen whether and to what degree they are affected. Hopefully, the air pollution will have diluted by now. Winds and rains will help. Ground water is a more difficult problem, but the problem is limited by the flow boundaries. It may take some tedious groundwork to stir up the stream beds and clear them out. I understand that topsoil is already being removed.
Look fren, we are both splitting hairs here, and it seems we pretty much agree on the main points.
I just felt you were down playing the severity not that you were in anyway complicit.thats the only issue I have, I am tired of letting them off the hook all the time there's never any accountability. Perhaps you disagree but this is my last response since we are debating in circles
And i feel exposing thousands of people to extremely dangerous carcinogens is equivalent to maiming and killing since cancer is often a death sentence or very destructive to the body maybe to you that seems hyperbolic but you came at me extremely hot first
I didn't say you didn't know what you're talking about just confused why, if you've lived through similar situations you're so eager to downplay the severity of the situation and the governments role in exacerbating it regardless of motive
But worry not I know your an obvious shill based I. Your activity here being dedicated to simply shilling for the company and the government so I will just keep deporting you take care fren
I'm not interested in letting anyone off the hook. But I do insist that the hook be measured and verified.
Since the whole point of the controlled burn was to AVOID the exposure of many people to tons of a carcinogen, I don't understand your position. Let the damn vinyl chloride tank blow up and allow it to evaporate and spread over the countryside? I mean, if you can explain to me what was the right thing to do IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES (i.e., no magical introduction of equipment and means to do something perfect---as well as a time machine to give you as much time as needed before the tank explodes), then I can perhaps understand your point better.
My experiences give me more compassion for what people may go through. Did you ever breathe ammonia? Or sulfur dioxide & trioxide (makes sulfurous or sulfuric acid in your lungs)? Or tolulene? My father lost some lung function through breathing cleaning chemicals that he used as a janitor. I pointed out the people in East Palestine were ill-served by not being warned of the combustion products being heavier-than-air gases. Was that something you were aware of? I doubt it. Typical that you pound your chest with virtue as giving you anything to talk about, and those that have gone through these experiences have nothing to listen to.
My confidence is bolstered by your basic admission that you don't know shit about me, and therefore probably not about anything else. I don't have ANY sympathy for the government, and I want Norfolk Southern to answer any charges they are liable for. Everybody seems to want to be lemmings, not rational human beings, ready to leap off a cliff of supposition instead of waiting and learning the true story.
Here's some additional sauce for you it's nice and normie npc shill friendly for you
It discusses the outdatedbrakes and other things including sources
Edify yourself
https://youtu.be/7IHkyjhMYuk
Okay, I watched the video. As far as I could see, Russel Brand is a bullshitting blowhard. His antics diminished the credibility of what he was talking about.
Regarding brakes, however: (1) There was no claim that the quality of the brakes was in any way related to the accident. Or that there was anything substandard about what they were. (2) The rule lifted by Trump was an action already passed by Congress in 2015. (3) Even under the rule, the train that suffered the derailment would not have fallen under its provisions.
The rest wasn't particularly "news," although some of it was. The comparison to Chernobyl was histrionic.
OP, thanks so much for all the hours of work you had to put into this autism display. So much relief and hopium lies within, for folks like me who aren't experts on groundwater flow and such topics. I'm certain you have the undying gratitude of nearly everyone here who sees your post.
Awesome news.
(Just for fun, as to the 4th word...I do this all the time and have seen a few others do it too, substituting K for D and vice versa when typing. Something about the middle fingers...you never see it happen with other letters, like typing L for S, or F for J. Just a weird quirk of some sort :)
We already suffer from dead zones in the gulf of Mexico every summer because of fertilizer run off - this could be really bad for the gulf. The wet lands in Louisiana play some part in 90% of all life in the gulf so if it becomes contaminated, that's a huge loss of various seafood.
Not for nothing but @cathole953, sounds like “hi, I’m from the government, and I’m here to help!” Cincinnati has shut down their intake and they are using reserves. When do they run out of water? Has anyone brought in truckloads of bottled water? Hell, they haven’t even brought it in for E. Palestine.
Oh wow, not like 4th point I made and the map that goes along with it didn't point out the excessive amount of Dam's along the contaminated area, and I actually said they should shut a few down to help contain this mess.
And Cincinatti get's water from multiple sources, so while I'm sure it'll have some effect (probably water bills going up for residents), it's still better than the alternative and they're not gonna end up like california where people go weeks with no running water.
I'll crap on you. Do you live there? If not, then your opinion about how bad it is, doesn't matter. These people's lives are being effected in ways we may never know.
Literally the most liberal argument I've ever heard of. "You're not directly affected, therefore you may not have a differing view on the topic". This is how they argue for pro-trans policies.
I never said it wasn't bad, quite the opposite, I literally called for people to be lynched over it. But it's not a doomsday event. It's extremely localized.
And how would you know this? Their lives could just as well be unaffected, for all you know. Wait. And see.