Afraid to invest in the stock market, the Chinese people have invested their life savings in the housing market. The housing market holds aprox 62% of the life savings of the Chinese people. Property development has been a huge factor in China’s economic growth. It accounts for 28% of GDP. Its all about to change.
New property sales in China dropped by 36% in September on average, as much as 45% in Shanghai.
Evergrande has until Oct 23rd to make its bond payments or they will default. These payments are to the bond holders who have invested in buying Evergrande bonds. The USA is holding $300 billion of these bonds which could spell trouble here.
If they default, Evergrande will have to liquidate properties at rock bottom prices.(90 million vacant apartments) This will destroy housing prices and crush the housing market along with the Chinese peoples life savings.
It seems Evergrande had to much money invested in assets that were not selling. Their net income fell, investors got scared and stopped investing and short sellers swooped in when they saw the fall of Evergrande coming a few months ago.
Without any liquidity from Evergrande, other heavily leveraged developers will also soon fall. We are talking about a $62 trillion housing sector that the Chinese people have a large chunk of their life savings invested in.
Remember the video where we saw China imploding high rise apartment building that were half built. No money to finish them and they stand to destroy the housing values if they go on the market at dirt cheap prices.
Evergrande has literally built a house of cards using the Chinese peoples life savings and money from bond purchasers here in the USA. I keep reading the bond market here may implode. If you have money in bonds, maybe talk to your broker
This could start an uprising in China, an overthrow of the current political class. I guess Xi could bail out Evergrande if he wanted to but throwing good money after bad is not the best idea. Bursting the bubble now is better than kicking the can down the road and the damage would be greater.
I don't know what the political implications for Xi or the CCP would be if the people started to revolt after learning they invested in a giant Ponzi scheme. What Xi has going for him is a few years ago he instituted new regulations that would prevent a future Evergrande scenario but at the same time these new regulations started the collapse going on now. It almost seems that Xi did this intentionally and my question is "Did he do it at President Trump's request"? Lots of different scenarios intersecting at the same time. This could get interesting.
Here is a good video explaining what is about to happen.
I don't believe you own property in china, you rent it from the government
I feel like property taxes in the US make it feels like you don't really own the land.
You own it, you can accrue wealth if it appreciates and then sell it to make a profit. You just have to pay a fee while its in your possession. If you stop paying the taxes they will seize it from you, sell it at auction, take their cut and give you the balance.
See the "if you don't pay the fee they can seize it from you" doesn't feel like true ownership. When you pay a fee to keep "owning" something it feels more like renting than owning.
It feels like renting because it is renting - this is a big part of the reason why you can't live "off the grid" as some wish to do.
The truth isn't always very pleasant, but it's still the truth.
Gotta pay for that fine military equipment being used to currently guard your property.
Oh, that’s why I’ve been seeing so many Afghans lately. And that’s why we gave them all that equipment... I feel much better now, thank you.
Property taxes don’t go to the Feds.
Property taxes go to local gov. Not state. Not federal.
So? They are incorporated with the feds.
It's like being a Duke and u collect taxes from the land the king let's youblrosper from as long as some gets kicked back to him.
It's all the same system.
That $13 a pint ice cream is not going to freeze itself.
she needs to be IN a fridge on a cold slab....
I get that, but it should feel like true ownership. Assets cost money. Citizenship has a price.
Houses have to be maintained.
Piles of cash have to be defended.
Health deteriorates.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
The road to your land has to be repaved.
A car that doesn’t take gas (and doesn’t need a charge) is too good to be true.
If you’re not the one paying taxes, then you’re not the one owns the land.
Renters don’t pay taxes.
Historically renters couldn’t vote.
You had to own land.
Because only the people who own the land pay the taxes.
Only the people who pay the taxes are citizens.
Unfortunately that’s changed. Now we have dumb, unemployed, homeless felons voting on our laws. Despite the fact that its not their money they’re spending.
I mostly agree with what you've stated but this:
It is true that renters don't write the check that pays the taxes but the money that person that rents the property to them comes from the renters - ultimately, the renters DO pay the taxes because they're income is the source from which the taxes are paid. Think of it this way: Corporations don't pay taxes, they act as the tax collector by including the cost of the tax incurred into the product they sell - the product in this case happens to be the property being rented.
To elaborate, it’s not just the government that can take your land when you owe them.
If you owe anyone money, then they can sue you. If you don’t pay the judgment, then they can have the sheriff seize your bank accounts, cars, land, etc. and sell them, keep the money you owed them (plus costs) and give you wants left. It’s not unique to owing the government.
Of course, many states provide protection for your homestead, and one car, or something like that, but if you have a business or second property…
That's if you borrow money. Then, you pay it back.
But you didn't borrow any money from the government. You just pay. Forever.
You are trying to justify paying rent on "your" property. You are twisting your mind into a pretzel to justify it, but you can't justify it.
That's why you are using ridiculous analogies that are not real analogies.
$10,000? $25,000? Insignificant and meaningless.
Correct which the premise of being a Sovereign Citizen.
It’s telling USSA INC “Fuck Off” and saying you will never ever use a US Gov service like social security etc.
For my generation this makes sense. Instead of a W-2 you file a W-8 and instead of a US Citizen K am a Citizen of my State. It’s more common than you think.
It also means my property has “Homestead” status where they can claim I owe whatever but they can’t confiscate it.
I'm looking into this right now. It has it's pros and cons, like anything else. Have you done this? If so, how's it going?
imagine for a minute that we lived in United States the way it was imagined with governments that are truly answerable to the people and a Fed whose real concern is to keep America safe.
If you owned property in that wonderland, would it not be fair to contribute to the mutual defense and maintenance of it?
Sure, if it was a choice and we got to decide where it went. But the meaning of choice is that if we stopped paying that money we would not have the land seized.
See, the money is taken and spent where they please without our consent. If we don't pay their "fee" the land is taken.
The real question is do you believe property taxes should be mandatory or not? And if you agree with mandatory then you agree that the government has the right to take away what you "own" because you decided not to contribute.
See how easy it becomes for so many sheep to accept mandatory vaccines? We let the government mandate all sorts of things for "our own good".
If the government can mandate you pay them to own land, then why can't they mandate what they do with your body?
there has got to be some sort of middle ground between having government boot on our faces and yet having a country that's capable of organized self defense
Of course there is, but it is not found through "mandates". If you own land, then it can't be taken away because you don't pay a fee that a bunch of greedy politicians made. Otherwise it's just land renting.
Our system of government, a representative republic, provides our "say" by us being able to select those that represent us. That system has been corrupted by election fraud and dishonest politicians that represent industries/agendas instead of the people. It's called a social compact - we agree to allow them to make decisions on our behalf and spend money and levy taxes (The Tenth Amendment), The problem is that the definitions of "general welfare" and "common defense" have been bastardized to allow the fed to spend money on things that the Constitution never intended the federal government to have control over.
Paying a non-negotiable charge on pain of losing the asset is not ownership. Owning something means you own it and what you do with it is not interfered with unreasonably. If you accept property taxes in principles you will get "property" taxes in practice, see recurring gun tax they want to do. They're one and the same thing.
In the land of No Bullshit, though, the entity that force you to surrender thousands of dollars every year under threat of losing "your" property, and then seize it by force and physically evict you into the street if you don't pay, is the de facto owner.
Source: own my home free and clear; do not own my home at all
Even if you do pay they and have seized land from owners with the "eminent domain" stuff though.
Fee? It's a rental fee. Youbare allowed by the queen to a warranty of title not rhe actual title.
rent to own, but you never are able to stop paying the rent portion (property tax).
What I read somewhere as far as how these companies make money is they take investor funding (including mom and pop investors) and then they build the cheapest skyscraper that is never actually used (remember those ghost cities in China?) then they use the remaining funds to buy up property in US, Aus, Canada etc. Then they show these assets to the banks and raise loans and repeat the cycle.
So essentially they value to the Chinese real estate market = Zero. And their contribution to the international real estate market is to drive prices beyond the reach of the locals.
About six months ago, a deal for a Chinese real estate development (and 'financial services ') firm to buy out Genworth's long term care insurance unit fell through. They had been trying to make this work for four years.
How Genworth got to where they are is a long back story, but they hold the largest block of LTCI business in the US. The initial selling point was that the Chinese were looking for ways to address their own baby boom generation aging. The US has 70M baby boomers, but China has 250M and they had one child rule. So they do have a problem to address. But I am thinking a bullet was dodged there. The industry has its problems for sure, but I would rather we take care of those ourselves.
But what is interesting about Oceanwide is the other projects in the US they have been involved with and have fallen apart. They were building what was to be the second largest skyscraper in SF next to the Salesforce building. When they announced they were getting out of the deal, I probably would have not noticed, but because I was familiar with the Genworth deal, it peaked my interest.
Some background on Oceanwide
https://www.mingtiandi.com/real-estate/outbound-investment/oceanwide-finds-new-buyer-for-1-2b-san-francisco-project/
Very insightful comment, thanks for this.
LTCI definitely better to keep it out of the hands of Chinese because my wild guess would be they would start leveraging those insurance contracts and as with all their scams they would suck it dry and when the time comes there wont be any money for the people who need that insurance. This is my wild guess just based on how they do everything.
Oceanwide is pretty interesting. The article says they had to sell those towers to beet bond payments. Seriously, a large Chinese company selling assets to meet bond payment should be a much bigger deal. This was almost 18 months ago. These are the first signs that an industry is in trouble and can no longer be bailed out. Experts should have been raising alarm bells about this industry all this time, not just when its imminent that Evergrande is going to default.
But this also kinda gives me hope that there is no escaping from this bubble its a long time in making and popping.
This would likely be a good idea to restrict, but it would require (A) every business that owns property to show who owns it, and who owns the corporations that own it, etc, to demonstrate their ownership is X% domestic and not foreign. (B) This would need to be documented for every real estate purchase. (C) Controls would need to be in place to prevent domestic businesses buying property, then selling the business to foreigners.
This would be a huge wrench into the gears of publicly traded corporations, which is probably a good idea, because the entire stock market is an illusion of diffused ownership so that Blackrock and Vanguard can own the entire economy, and control the behavior of most corporations, without this being overly obvious until now:
Tim Gielen: Monopoly - Who owns the world?
https://rumble.com/vn7lf5-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-must-see.html
EO 13848. it's my favorite one
Still trying to figure out Blackrock. They are clearly not black hats anymore.
In China you can own the home but you lease the land from the government. Basically the same thing here. Property taxes you pay means you are renting the land from the government. Stop paying your taxes and see how quick they take it from you.
In the US don't you totally own the land you buy?
EDIT: Just read your reply to Semper. Thanks.
No you don't own the land, the government can take it at any time, i believe it is called imminent domain.
Eminent Domain.
KEK!
The regular Chinese don't, but the oligarchs do. This is how [they] have protected themselves from defeat, in muchthe same way as the USSR did. The oligarchs were the true owners of USSR property. Had it fell apart properly, even they wouldve been made paupers at the end, but that didn't happen, did it? And it won't happen that way for the CCP, either.
Yes "buying property" in China is signing a 70 year lease from the government
Great post, absolutely true, although I’ll quibble with two things:
China's second biggest real estate company after Evergrande is Fantasia and they also failed to make their payments a few days ago. So their two biggest real estate companies are on the verge of collapse.
Sold.
to the people for a reasonable price!
I was thinking about that fact when typing this. The CCP may think starting a war with someone may take the focus off the collapse but I think it would be transparent to most people what they were doing and make matters worse for them. False fags are not going to help them.
Hence the acceleration against Taiwan
False fags, KEK. Great post though fren! Ready for implosion. u/#mjpopcorn
The US did a false flag with 9/11 and it provided cover for bankers to rob us blind for 20 years:
A Structural Reevaluation of the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7
15 Years Later: On the physics of high-rise building collapses
https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf
Planet Lockdown | Catherine Austin Fitts (Full Interview)
https://rumble.com/vd15i1-planet-lockdown-catherine-austin-fitts-full-interview.html
Aaron Russo: Alex Jones interview
https://files.catbox.moe/mryl1s.mp4
Covid has been a false flag for the vaccines, and so far it has been wildly successful.
I was thinking pretty much exactly this, thinking back to 2007ish when learning about Mortgage Backed Securities as a brand new Series 7/63 licensed broker who didn’t know dick…but I learned quick and this feels/reads like a replay of 2008 and if it is and if Evergrande owns US properties of value that’s what has to be liquidated to start paying off bond holders.
Could this finally force the US Housing market into pricing that makes sense? Could this be the domino?
Wait until you find out that the largest Ponzi scheme is the US Economy.
User name checks out!
You ain't seen no bubble bursting yet, muhahaha
Petro-dollar, to be more specific.
The central bank system in general. Not just in the US.
Yeah but I was talking about the "biggest" ponzi scheme
It's infuriating to see the obvious artificial growth that came out of China in the past 20 years and how the media was celebrating it. It was all fake. Fake cities, fake apartment complexes nobody would care to live in. Then you see genuine economic growth, like what happened in the US in the 1950s, you saw actual businesses and livelihoods emerge without any government assistance. Houses were built based on what people needed and wanted, and could afford, not the wild imagination of an elitist nobleman who never worked a day in his or her life! That's what I saw in china, just a bunch of spoiled rich kids concocting housing projects for their loyal little pet worker bees.
Thanks for the take on this scenario Fren. I pay attention to a lot of things, but like the rest of us, I don't have time for it all. Thanks for the time you have spent on this.
Specifically the Australian housing market lol.
One of the other commenters pointed out that non-chinese real estate has always been a fundamental part of their scheme. England, Europe, USA, Brazil, Australia... they are truly everywhere.
I don't like commies owning any of my country, esp. Communist China.
What if we were to suddenly declare that, no, China, you do not own any United States land. If you think you do, come and try to take it.
Just thinking off the top of my scalp here.
Many countries have laws prohibiting foreign ownership of land. Solid.
EO 13848
I've been keeping up with it through channels like ADV China, China Uncensored, TFI Global and China Insight.
Tendies incoming?
So Evergrande is larger than Bernie Madoff's Ponzi, that was purported as the largest Ponzi scheme in history. Okay. I get it.
I always chuckle hearing about the crimes of Ponzi schemes knowing that none of these compare to the Federal Reserve Banking System.
Evergrande just missed it's 3rd round of bond payments. 300 billion in liabilities total. Not good lol. They're not the only property firm in China failing. Modern Property is failing and then Sinic Holdings will default next week on 250 million dollars in interest payments as well. TAKE DOWN THE CCP.
Check out 'China in Focus - NTD' on YT. It's a great news channel.
"What Xi has going for him is a few years ago he instituted new regulations that would prevent a future Evergrande scenario but at the same time these new regulations started the collapse going on now. It almost seems that Xi did this intentionally and my question is "Did he do it at President Trump's request"? "
Can you talk more about this, why do you think Trump asked Xi to do this? What are the benefits for this? If Xi did this, how does this help the CCP? Is the intention to take power away from the CCP?
Here is a article that talks about the new regulations in China. It focused on cutting funding to over leveraged businesses that become a risk because of their asset ratios.
https://www.ubs.com/global/en/asset-management/insights/china/2021/china-three-red-lines.html
We know Trump and Xi seemed to have a good relationship, Trump was welcomed in to the Forbidden city where he ate dinner with Xi, something no other foreign leader has ever done. Its assumed that Xi would want to eliminate the CCP. The CCP in China has a reputation similar to the CIA here in the USA. Xi is the President but he is just along for the ride, the CCP controls things and they are ruthless psychopaths. They are also at the center of the loansharking and bad economic decisions that created their financial mess.
The CCP have been persecuting Christians for many years, they have over 8 million people in prison camps that are being tortured and used for a source for organ donations. I think Trump knew this when he went there and made Xi a offer he couldn't refuse.
I think the tariffs that Trump put on Chinese exports was for optics. There needed to be a wedge driven between Trump and Xi or people would suspect they were working together. If Xi was going to take down the CCP it couldn't appear that he was working with Trump to accomplish a agenda purposed by Trump.
So yes, the CCP has infiltrated the USA, they are part of every sector in our society and its hard to flush them out. Taking the CCP down would eliminate all the spying infiltrators we have in the USA and also be a benefit to China also.
Your comment made me think back to President Trump's Asia tour in 2017.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QfrTKCJC3RA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOcoWxD8fjc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sIHrBjkUxf0
And this Q post... u/#q853
https://qalerts.app/?n=853
Wonder what that equals sign just before the signature means.
Yeah, me too. I don't remember the decodes of it.
revolt of the chinese people isn't just a fear.
it's THE fear.
China’s GDP is only $14trillion. I’m a bit confused as to the numbers here. Haven’t watched the video yet. US GDP is $20 trillion.
GDP is gross domestic product each year, the savings of the people of a country is generally many many times the GDP unless there is some sort of terrible longterm economic depression.
So the numbers come from those assets of the chinese people as well as foreign investors.
The stonk apes have a new theory that the pfof brokers are not even buying the shares just marking you down in their ledgers... The whole thing is about to come tumbling down. There’s going to be a lot of suffering, so buckle up.
The global money system is a ponzi scheme.
I repaextfully disagree. The various stock markets of the world are the largest Ponzi Scheme even created. So much so, that when someone creates a Ponzi Scheme outside of [their] purview, ala Madoff, [they] MUST crush it, before the public pits 2+2 together and figures out it's ALL just one big Ponzi.
Resources and means of production are the most meaningful thing anyone can own. The stock markets are not a bubble as long as the corporations pay dividends commensurate to their stock price - or a minority do not, but there is expectation that they will.
The main thing with stock markets is that they provide an illusion of diffused ownership, so that Blackrock and Vanguard and the families that control them can own half the economy, and direct most public corporations, without this being overly obvious until now:
Tim Gielen: Monopoly - Who owns the world?
https://rumble.com/vn7lf5-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-must-see.html
When I started to read the last paragraph I couldn't help but think of the relationship of Xi and Trump. State dinner in the Forbidden City and Trump's trips all around Asia setting up economic agreements with many countries and helping them to create new economic groups and relationships between themselves that did not particularly favor China but for their own countries. So with all of this happening I could not help but wonder about Xi's real position down the road that is now here. Is Xi possibly a whitehat?
There was a video (having issues finding it) where Miles Guo (Billionaire Chinese Investor, now ultra pro-Trump supporter and new Chinese nationalist) called out EverGrande in 2017 for being a Ponzi scheme. After that video, he ended up fleeing to the US and magically had to pay a huge fine (like $500 million) to the SEC.
too much.
"The USA is holding $300 billion of these bonds which could spell trouble here."
So who exactly is it in the US that is holding that $300 billion in bonds? Any fiduciary agency that's worth anything would have seen through the Ponzi scheme immediately and would not have touched it with a 30-foot pole. So if this $300 billion figure is accurate (more or less), it would be instructive to all of us to know who holds these bonds in the US. An error in judgement of this magnitude should be dealt with by investors pulling out and leaving the bond holders high and dry.
So again, who in the US is holding these bonds?
Hmmm, so EverGrande is like an economic Three Gorges Damn about to crack? And no ships offloading so no cash flowing back to Chyna? Velly interdasting, velly interdasting indeed...
The CCP will just say they're moving out of the real estate market and will order the police and the PLA to kill whoeve disagrees. It's not like it didn't happen before. But definetly it would make a dent on China's economy.
yip
TIL that much money exists on planet earth
There is 1.4 billion people in China, if they each saved $44,000, there is your $62 trillion. When they save money it is not put in a big pile, they loan it to other people. Your assets become just a number floating in space somewhere. The housing sector here in the USA is worth about $40 trillion, we have 1/4 of the people.
https://youtu.be/UPwtUTrwKRI I think this video shows the enormity of the bad debt and real estate bubble that China is facing. It's BIG!!!
This is the CCP's way of decoupling from the wall street hedge fund market makers like blackrock and vanguard.
KARMA is a bitch China!!!!....you create and distribute a virus throughout the World and now your house will come crumbling down.
Micheal invests has been calling the top for months now.
My opinion, this is some pro grade-A FUD. Kinda how the scamdemic started, with actors and fear mongering from CCP.
It is also how badly buildings are constructed in China. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XopSDJq6w8E&t=552s
Interesting stuff... Here's hoping it falls rock bottom but not in a matter of week but days!