President Trump on TruthSocial disavows Marjorie Taylor Greene!
(media.greatawakening.win)
💥 BOOOOOOM 💥
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Nothing that Trump says is ever what it appears on the surface. Having said that, I have no idea what the purpose of this anti-MTG rant is. I'm not a fan of any politicians, however, there's probably 500ish worse congressmen than her. According to this rant, her main fault is that she "complains." Throw a stone on the Hill and hit 24 complaining congressmen before it hits the floor. What's the real purpose of this?
Either Trump is demonstrating that the public supports Massey and MTG etc (same as his “vaccine” endorsement, but in reverse)
OR he’s indirectly drawing attention to the elephant in the room: foreign lobbying and how universally unpopular it is
He's absolutely bringing attention to MTG with this, so whatever it is she's saying gets more eyes on. He's done this multiple times before. The fact that he's pointing out the view, means whatever she's said in that episode is what he wants people to see. AIPAC, probably
Trump withdrew his support from Mo Brooks for Senator in Alabama when he said in a campaign speech something to effect that "we all need to move past the election outcome of 2020." He was a solid Trump supporter who spoke badly. Katie Britt was his replacement eventually.
Mo was shown the door for that stupid comment. MTG was just shown the door for her stupid COMPLAINING, in spite of the rich context Trump provided in his TruthPost.
She was good until she allowed to get herself caught up in the Massie miasma over releasing Epstein files at the urging of Epstein's star-struck fame seeking tarts who got paid off, and now see a public mistrust gravy train to ride. Trump opposes this but says "be careful what you wish for" It's a Democrat smear scam. It won't get Trump, but it will get a lot of his detractors.
And MTG unfortunately allowed herself to get sucked in to it at the expense of calling Trump's reputation wrongfully into question.
The thrill is gone. The love is over. MTG is done. GA-14 (R)'s needs to find someone better who will stay on the Trump train and Trust the Plan without COMPLAINING about what they have no clear insight about anyway.
Complain is repeated 3 times here and it looks like 3 times in the drops.
I think that 2nd sentence is 117 words long. Is that a record?
Is 522 the hottest drop? It has 12 hots. 12 is also emphasized 3 times in the rant. Is there 522 words in the rant?
u/#q522
I was half asleep when I wrote that up, so the counting was way off. Now I get 121 words for the longest sentence and 304 for the total. Oh well, but I still think searching drops for the emphasized words (quotes, uppercase, counted things, and repeated words) is still a good place to start.
Many of these things lead to drops on MS-13, Antifa, and the illegal invader insurgency, so I wonder if the 12 "hotties" are cities.
Is anyone else reminded of the 2017 tweet"
That gigantic run on sentence is a similar format.
The covfefe always seemed like a go signal to me and the [e] marker drops indicated by "wack" have that flavor as well.
Can anybody explain this?
Which part? When Trump does a crazy sounding truth like this some people here assume there's more to it than the literal text. If the literal text makes you mad, that's a magic trick to distract the normies from any other meaning that might be hidden in plain sight. For example, with the "Q proofs" there was an association with something in the drops (read up on tippy top) and a timestamp corrolation. So I simply examined some of the unusual features in Trump's truth and tried to see if there were any interesting associations in the Q drops. But it's all just speculation.
Hey, speaking of speculation. My first attempt gave me 12 numbered RED items. I just remembered the auroras appeared on the 12th, but they were RED and GREEN so I took another look and found this delta from the 12th. There's four numbered GREEN items.
There's also quite a few drops with both RED and GREEN. On Nov 4th Marjorie Taylor GREEN wore RED on The View. Q-307 lists Nov 4th as "The marker". That's also the day of the UPS plane crash. And the "wack" drop selected the [e] marker.
I think maybe this is starting to go somewhere, but I'm also reminded of the Judas triple betrayal Last Supper story by the 3 COMPLAINs and of course the triple 12 for the apostles. Sorry, but it just seems to fit this part of "the movie".
u/#q148 u/#q307 u/#q4353
When someone who was very close to Trump suddenly has a fight with him there's a chance it's an op[. I feel this way about Candace. She is saying things he can not at this time but wants spoken out
Him appearing to be upset only add emphasis to it
u/#correct
I just watched MTG on the view. It just reminded me of Ye West on Alex Jones (maybe the female version of that) Ye, prepared the way of the last step "Israel 4 last' Greene appeared to go part way with the View people (on a few things) BUT AFFIRMED THAT SHE KNOWS RUSSIAN COLLUSION WAS A HOAX
So this is a preview of what's next.
Ye's was of a much bigger time span but will both, eventually lead to ....
Hadn’t thought of that….Elon too.
She has been outspoken about his support of Israel and that it’s not America first. I figured this would be coming,
She’s a liability moving forward or we’re watching the creation of spycraft
I would bet a million dollars the following private conversation was had prior to this phony public one:
DJT: Hey Marjorie. I got an idea and I need your help. Before the cock crows I will deny you three times. I need you to play along. Here’s how it’s gonna go…
MTG: 10-4 Mr. Prez. This should be fun. Finally gonna get that Epstein stuff out, aren’t we?
DJT: Bet your ass we are. Fuck the Clintons. Fuck Israel. Fuck em all. Now check out this tweet I just sent and get all defensive but respond like so…
MTG: Diabolical. It’s on like Donkey Kong.
DJT: 🦍
😂😂😂👍🏻
I agree with this assessment
I hope so lol. Sometimes shes the only one willing to say certain things. She's kinda based.
This is similar to the DeSantis for president, Elon Musk "feud" political theater that maga must do to keep the crazy left unbalance. Our alliances are very strong, and MTG has been one of the most outspoken, consistent supporters of our President Trump.
A theatrical wedge driven between them makes for an excellent diversion for the crazy cabal, and helps prevent something far worse of their design from mmaterialized.
Appear week when you are strong. ~ Sun Tzu
Sounds like you figured it out! I never bought the Elon feud, and the spat did stop the Tesla attacks. Act II on this one could be interesting.
The DeSantis running for president feud was all staged as well.
This very well could be for part of the same political theater.
True, I forgot about that one.
Makes sense. Directional shift to make Dems think one way while he's going another. All of MSM will be trying to interview her now. She'll be the darling of the left like Fetterman has become to the right. Probably trolling with her as bait.
So he calls to primary MTG....but has endorsed numerous other notorious, worse-than-useless RINO, like Lindsey Graham. 🙄
He is the commander in chief and knows what he is doing. We also know that many people who appeared against us are not they are just playing a part to push the agenda forward. So it would be nice if you either support him or get out.
I support him. That doesn't mean I have to be happy about hearing him want to primary one of the few people in congress I can count on (MTG) to support our 2nd amendment rights.
Serious question:
Why is this first reaction at this point to engage with this statement directly, instead of as an example of kayfabe and comms?
“Politics is acting for ugly people.”
There is still so much direct, literal engagement with tweets like this, rather than looking up post timestamps, references to bracketed capitalized words, and other Q-adjacent methodologies, etc. I don’t understand why.
This isn’t about you per se, more that I’m confused as to why the direct, literal approach is still so widespread after so many years.
Do we need better comms training threads? I know I could definitely still use better training on these things to get even remotely near the level of some people. See also sylver’s and oldschoolfool’s comments below.
i am a fan of the kayfabe angle right now because everything that is part of the show is kayfabe when you think about it but anyway here is mtg responding
Because there are literal retards here, that's why. They don't understand that we're in a war and shit happens in war that only the generals understand. Sigh.
In Hollywood the cream rises, in Washington the skum rises.
Does Hollywood still have a cream-rising system in place since Weinstein got arrested?
Ahem.
rumor has it weinstein was effectively a hollywood nobody thrown to the wolves compared to the real backroom players, much like how bernie maddoff was used as a financial fall boy
Harvey definite had a long history of being a rapey scumbag but yeah he likely wasn't a ringleader either.
No doubt, but I couldn’t figure out a way to note the bigger picture and make that joke.
(I dunno about a “nobody” but there are definitely other power centers there.)
Yeah I was very generous there. The truth is they are both scum except one might have a little Talent.
Its the old knee jerk reaction. Besides. Trump supports our gun rights just fine and he is the final word on legislation. There is something else going on here or MTG has been compromised and trump is dumping here dead weight. Something tells me there is more to it.
Dude are you really not capable of picking up on his schtick yet? Every time he lacks bipartisan support for something he positions himself/dangles himself in some way to make the Dems think they’ve got a play on him and he swipes the rug out. Trump isn’t a liar by creating a tactical ruse anymore than Sun Tzu was encouraging people to lie by ADMITTING that all warfare must, by necessity, be based on deception. Are football players liars when they fake a handoff and toss a fifty yard bomb instead? THAT’S THE FUCKING GAME, GENIUS.
Don’t comment on chess when all you know is checkers, dude.
Your comment deserves a sticky!
What's not working? Your whiney-ass timeline based on fuckall and pipe dreams? The most entrenched, well-funded, ancient secret society ever is being dismantled and you're on THIS fucking site and THIS is your attitude?
PDW is right next door, bitch. Phone home anytime.
DeSantis, Elon Musk, what would you say to this being another fake fued amongst his supporters?
Obviously MTG has been about as big a supporter of POTUS as one can get, so me thinks this is the same thing.
A fued orchestrated for the benefit of others.
Anything is possible.
100 percent
Don't feel bad, fren. It's an op. How long will it take to primary her??? By then they will be kissing friends again. I bet they planned this ahead of time. She is saying things he can't atm & him appearing to be upset adds emphasis which is exactly what both of them & the white hats want.
I think you’re both kind of right and wrong in your assessments here.
We don’t have to line up with everything Trump says publicly in order to support him. We can easily disagree with what he says publicly and still trust the strategy he’s employing by choosing to say it.
I’ve come to trust Trump absolutely over the past 9 years. He has proven too many times over too long a period that when he says something I disagree with either:
Or
Q has helped me get this. Disinformation is NECESSARY in this kind of war. Where you are weak, it can be wise to make yourself appear strong. Where you are strong it can often benefit you to appear weak. When you are United it sometimes makes sense to appear divided (see: his “fight” with obvious white hat ally, Musk). I no longer sweat what Trump says publicly. I don’t get mad at him for what he says nor do I immediately accept it at face value. I trust what he’s doing even if I disagree with what he says. He’s more than earned that kind of trust at this point if you ask me. He manipulates the narrative strategically at every turn. He’s always playing a deeper game than his surface comments suggest. We know what he stands for. We know who he’s fighting for. We know who he’s fighting against. I just sit back and enjoy the show. Chess, not checkers.
Sounds like cope to me
Thats not how this works.
Does support mean to agree 100% on everything? I support my family. I support my church. But not on 100% of all things.
Checker players opining on a chess match between Masters, don't let it rub you wrong.
Graham was going to win regardless.
when next year??? kek
This is for optics. I means he agrees with whatever she said on the view but can't say so now. In fact, he probably asked his to disclose whatever she revealed there but I still don't want to watch the view to find out!
I support MTG and Massey and any others who call out the foreign lobbyists in DC
Masseys wife's sudden death after he was on Tucker explaining how he was the only representative without a aipac assigned israeli (?) If i remember that right, really strikes me as strange. Then to re marry so fast and so young. Idk. Something is weird there.
mtg had me at "jewish space lasers" because of the amount of jimmies rustled by that statement alone
As I recall she didn't even say that really, she did say something about development of directed energy weapons and the MSM twisted it into "Jewish Space Lasers". First time I ever heard that was from a libshit and of course they couldn't even link to a video clip (as usual.)
you are absolutely right because she just parroted back j.s.l. when it was said by a reporter, asking about conspiracy theories. it was what she said and how she said it before walking off that sold me on her, not the actual j.s.l. phrase as i used that for something common in people's minds
when she first talked about the sky lasers she mentioned the rothchilds and i always wondered if it was because of this https://dod.overdrive.com/media/9511333
Hahaha! I had forgotten about that! 🤣
Lmfao. MTG is against Israel. Unless make Israel great again has another solution then this is clown town. Trump is either pulling a great counter psyop or is fucking cooked
Why should someone “support” Israel specifically. What is so special about that country?
Location location location. Because of the bible, the ziocons think that rebuilding solomons temple at thejdome of the rock. Will be the milestone of the end of time
Here's a better explanation courtesy of Brave_LEO/Qwen
This is why we need that separation between church and state. To protect us from ancient zionist death cults.
Except they arent the biblical israel.
They have co-opted Protestantism.
This is the fruit of Protestantism
Yup the end result of Sola Scriptura!
You got it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RNE0t_gg_Rg I love the way it’s laid out in this clip
To be Protestant is to say that either Jesus, the Apostles or the early church got it wrong. It literally makes no sense.
It’s funny when you really press them “did 1500 years worth of Catholics and Orthodox get it wrong?” They start to squirm a little bit
Sounds like the "Elon " maneuver to me.
ditto. What exactly. It means Trump wants to add emphasis to what she said on the view
Just watched it real quick. She stands firm that Russian collusion was a hoax. That tells me it's the next shoe to drop,...
and maybe the View has actually flipped because they allow that to be said. All this explains why Trump had to add emphasis. Now all the woke tards will watch the view & maybe get a piece of a red pill
she has been more critical of Israel lately right?
219 huh? lol o7 chief
_27-1_yes_USA94-2
_27-1_yes_USA58-A
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The_Castle_Runs_RED_yes
Godspeed.
Q
it looks like to me that geotus is just directing traffic
Good theory. The 219 in the tweet is odd.
good catch.
He's trying to clean MTGs name him from the media, she needs to drop some of her attention so she can be useful in the next phase. They will put their attention on someone else, which Trump and the WH will move in the proper position once it's appropriate. He has done this MANY times with other people he works with.
For some reason we keep forgetting his motive for having posts like this; KAYFABE. She's still important! The back and forth is INTENTIONAL! Remember the whole breakup story with him and Elon? They continue to work together! Just like Sessions, Flynn, and many others!
WE ARE THE NEWS NOW
You may be on to something, we'll see.
this just seems like kayfabe infighting to me so i am going to stand on that hill for 72 hours but for now here is mtg's response
I haven't forgotten how she was such big buddies with Kevin McCarthy. Kevin's picture is in the dictionary next to the word RINO.
He doesn't like that she won't shut up about Epstein. What the fuck happened to Trump? Is he truly just a puppet?
Try think more a bit more shallow, i dont think youve gone far enough.
Nah I'm just tired of high prices for everything, no ability to buy and own a home in the town I grew up in, and so called "millions of illegals deported" being reported on the media but no sign of that in real life -- they're still everywhere I go. But at least we got trans people out of the military, I guess.
MTG did nothing wrong
Never liked MTG, she just seemed like a grifter politician. Never seemed serious or rooted in any beliefs, just going the way the wind goes.
Better than Trump worshipping a pagan Hindu holiday or worshipping Israel
Holy shit you’re both retarded shit the fuck up. Do we have a bunch of new retards on the site lately? Really? You REALLY don’t recognize Kayfabe when you see it STILL??? After ALL this time???
Some people can’t be helped.
I view things through a spiritual and national lens. The identity of America and what made America great was European Christianity.
I see the identity of America being destroyed by Zionists, Pajeets, Muslims and woke lefties.
I care about America and Christianity. Trump participating in a Pagan holiday is one putting his soul in jeopardy and two not defending our national identity so I will call it out.
Which Pagan holiday are you referring to?
And I think pretty much everyone here sees things through a "spiritual and national" lens. Every holiday we celebrate in America has ties to Paganism. Who cares? But again, which holiday are you referring to?
"New", I've been on this site for half a decade. Maybe people just fight like normal because egos are involved, not everything is 5D chess.
Is Scaramucci still one of our guys? Or have you forgotten it completely because it didn't fit up the made up narrative in your head?
If you honestly think this little scuffle between Trump and MTG looks real I really don’t know what there is to say to you. And congrats on turning 20.
Never said I thought it looked completely real. I just entertained the possibility of it being real, which I think it may be. Personally I just get the impression MTG is just the RNC's AOC.
Wish I was 20 though.
I'll say my Q sense never liked her. From a Q perspective she never seem ascended to me
I could see why some argue that she's the "MAGA equivalent of AOC" right down to the being known mostly by three-letter initials and engaging way more with the media than really getting anything done plus the way they were immediately in a feud that looked so staged at times.
So...he's mad she went on the View. That's how I read it.
He’s right, MTG has no future in politics and is transitioning to a media role as the token republican to bash Trump and MAGA.
MTG didn’t realize not sucking Israeli cock was anti MAGA
You’re literally retarded if you think he’s serious. Jesus where is the 72 hour rule on this site lately? Did we let a bunch of fucking teenager nubes on?
OMG you guys are really testing my patience with this one.
How the SAM HILL could ANYONE that is among us on this platform, of which the very NAME is a message designed to point towards the BIGGER PICTURE happenings that have been occuring all throughout the "era of TRUMP AND MAGA"
Ostensibly, the term itself, Great Awakening is about the populous of our great United States (and the whole globe, eventually!) FINALLY getting wise to the political gamesmanship, the coded and veiled language that when deciphered reveals the true messages being sent out AND the true nature of those who authored them!
It is ALL ABOUT now entering into a time where what was formerly hidden is now REVEALED. This is a time when the many discover the ways of the few, when the storm clouds look the most ominous but herald the coming of the brightest sunny day any of us has yet known. This is a time rife with chaos and massive swings... but now, we can at last see that the panic and disorder are MANUFACTURED by those in control of the means to do so.
After generations of holding sway over the masses, generations who believed they were to be given grace and would never resort to such actions, they were discovered in a sudden and humiliating fashion - "YOU ARE FAKE NEWS."
This DOES NOT make Trump invulnerable or omnipotent, that is for certain. BUT It must be acknowledged that DJT, through a measure of his own cunning and guile, along with sophisticated and expert backing from ... somewhere...?
We cannot make them out in the fog of war, yet we KNOW they are present and their motives toward us (and all mankind, truly!) and the future itself are benevolent. White hats is what we call these shadowy figures on the side of good.
Most of us here at Great Awakening ARE AWAKE - right? NO SHIT SHERLOCK, EH! Having previously been lifted from our slumber and shown the wretched truths of what this world REALLY is and who did it we now refer to ourselves and others of our ilk whom we cross paths with out there in the desolation to be truly "woke"
Instead of the Satanist media and left-wing bastardized and mutated definition for the term "woke" - that's kind of the idea 💡 GET IT!?
I honestly can't believe I have to deliver a diatribe on something so totally self evident, but if we are REALLY going to run at this topic full bore, our horses racing towards the target, lances held out in front of us, then I have deep concerns and will proceed as deliberately as I have so far.
What is this muck and swampy garbage turned to text? Does THAT even vaguely sound like our chosen champion DJT, even in his most candid or off-color moments?
No! No way. This is as poorly written of a comedy act as it was with Elon Musk - and in the aftermath of that saga it actually pains me to think anyone really thinks all that breaking up and making up was TOTALLY authentic... ( but damn you, you exist out there, don'tcha?)
Let's consider the results of the "Elon feud". On Elon's end, he was met with a lot of confusion and a little derision from the right after his posts attacking Trump. That was to be expected.
But the REAL ACTION (and the whole point of the play) was what happened with the left. The lamestream media did a TOTAL 180 on Musk virtually overnight - not only that, but they felt smug and self-assured by the event itself, having predicted it so often it was almost a guarantee.
People rapidly STOPPED torching Teslas and dealerships, though. All the town square drama that Elon was at the center of seemed to vanish.
Very quickly, thoughts and dreams of once more trying to recruit ELON as a Democrat mega-donor began to take hold of the entire left wing establishment. It likely helped that Musk was ALSO publicly discussing the idea of creating a new political party on his platform, as well.
Do you think all that was BY ACCIDENT? Especially after he just spent an UNHEARD OF amount of money in record time to support Trump in PA and elsewhere???
Nope and nope and no again. The whole entire thing was conceived as a way to provide cover for EM and get his businesses out of harm's way from reactionary left wing terrorism, along with renewing his enticing appeals he had formerly used to infiltrate and hold sway over them.
Now, need I go further?
**By "releasing" MTG into free agency, Trump has given the left a raging hard erm... appetite shall we say? To floor the gas pedal on the Epstein files. This is practically DESTINED to blow up in their collective faces, and at the very least call into question some of their former prominent figures, if not some CURRENT ones as well.
It's some of the most JUICY bait you could set a trap with - Miss Jewish Space Laser herself, now airing her grievances with Trump and conversing with any left wing media that will provide her with time on camera.
They will be violently pushing to form a line to get an exclusive with MTG and serve her up a home run pitch to attack Trump with, in short order. You have to think of their branding and how closely aligned they are in the typical person's mind. Think MTG, you think Trump diehard, every time. They are hoping for her to become the next Tulsi Gabbard or something, they will bring her right in and show her all of their war plans, so she can promptly report them back to Trump, who she has NEVER split with.
Who else would OFFER to do this kind of crafty operation in tandem with the White House BUT a Marjorie Taylor Greene? Any other candidates you want to put forward?? Yeah, that's what I thought.
A final angle that I think ALSO has legs is how this kayfabe will make the left think about the upcoming midterms. Watching a nasty little spat like this play out in such a seemingly embarrassing and public way and it just screams out that Trump and the Republicans are cooked.
I promise you, they are not. No matter how vulnerable and shitty this tepid and unsteady patchwork of establishment phony RINOs and upstart unknown MAGAs might seem... well, as well have been alluding to through this whole post, NOTHING IS AS IT SEEMS.
I think that Trump has a plan here. No matter how shaky or incompetent Republicans might look for these midterms, consider this: would that matter if the Democrats were hit so hard with a scandal so awful that it made it IMPOSSIBLE for decent people to vote for ANY OF THEM?
What if something came out that was SO vile and detestable it virtually assured that any decent person could not vote Democrat in good conscience? What if the scandal was large enough to brush off on a majority of their incumbents and deliver a MAGA victory almost by default?
Is it in the Epstein records? Something yet to surface in the Biden-verse? What about Act Blue, or kickbacks for illegal immigrants in their districts, or some heinous crime agreed to but yet to be committed?
There is certainly enough corruption to go around, and I will bet you dollars to donuts that Trump might be aiming to collapse BOTH the RINOs and the far left before these fast approaching midterm elections.
Either way, my final words to it are just this: Oooooh boy, this is gonna be good.
😎 Godspeed all
that, and no one seems to notice the "DEAD country" comment...
Saved, your discussion here is the REASON why there are lurkers, and there are ANONS
Yes! This is a huge BOOM! It's time that Trump fight against the anti-MAGA contingent infiltrators.
🍿
I still like MTG. I think this is kafabe. I just don't understand why it is necessary.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115551127714537339
Additional link from TGP: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/11/trump-withdraws-his-support-endorsement-rep-marjorie-taylor/
Trump said H1B visas are needed for us to attract necessary talent to our workforce. This shows that our education system isn't cutting it . And MTG's immediate move is to grandstand and propose a complete end, not reform, to the H1B program.
i like them both.. they canfight all they want but i will continue supporting Trump and MTG
So he pulls his endorsement of MTG but won't pull his endorsement of Lindsey Graham, or the COVID vaccine?
Kayfabe.
They’re creating a ruse to bait the Dems to release Epstein stuff using “Trump is in there” as justification, setting up for another glorious backfire.
She did go out with a dem operative very publicly some time back, so can she be trusted anymore playing are part or not?
KAYFABE!!!
Indeed... Trump has these on/off "seasons" with people that in the off season spark a narrative deployments that Trump wants to distance himself from, yet still draw attention to inversely...Trump/Elon kayfabe template...
@Kimberlyrja8......Unpopular opinion, but I am standing by my theory that Trump and MTG are purposely distancing themselves from each other because of the Epstein files.
LSWH...I think MTG has been handed a baton...
Observing Consciousness @holonabove
https://x.com/holonabove/status/1989640233907065260
I personally stand with MTG and Trump. Let's get the Epstein crap over with and get it all out in the open.
Yikes he just truthed about her again saying shes a traitor, lol
KAYFABE!!!
This creeps me out. The sifting and sorting of loyalties. Necessary but a nasty business.
Wow
When you fall from the Trump tree you hit the ground HARD
Anytime there is a slow news day/weekend/whatever, Trump and one of his allies will become combative on Social Media. It is the same playbook he always uses. How are you all confused? This is normal Trump tactics.
I sure hope the plan kicks in soon. Trump is in a nosedive recently
Another news cycle distraction... but a distraction from what?
It means the Russian Hoax is next
I just watched MTG on the view. It just reminded me of Ye West on Alex Jones (maybe the female version of that) Ye, prepared the way of the last step "Israel 4 last' Greene appeared to go part way with the View people (on a few things) BUT AFFIRMED THAT SHE KNOWS RUSSIAN COLLUSION WAS A HOAX
So this is a preview of what's next.
Ye's was of a much bigger time span but will both, eventually lead to ....