I am Protestant, baptized and raised, but I do not ever hear about Protestant pastors driving out demons in exorcisms. We know the spiritual world is real, so exorcisms have to be real by default. Demons can call out our sins to accuse us and drag us down with them, so that is also universal between Catholics and Protestants.
So what is the defining difference that gives Catholics the power to do the exorcisms and not Protestants?
Do they teach in a way that gives more divine authority? Are we doing something wrong? Or is it withholding information within the Catholic church?
All Christian believers have the authority to cast out demons. Mark 16:17 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues.
Catholics call the process an exorcism, with elaborate rituals which state that only certain qualified priests are able and allowed to do this.
Non-Catholics call this a deliverance - setting the captives free. Not nearly as elaborate and anyone can do this, after learning and following the process of removing any legal rights that the demon is using to stay with a person.
There are many deliverance ministers and teams. I am part of one where I live. The warfare is real but we fight back, in the authority and name of Jesus.
I really like this answer thank you
Look up Pastor Dave Bryan form the Church of Glad tidings
https://truthsocial.com/@gtDave
He has a great story about exercising the daughter of Anton LaVey, the founder of the church of satan, and a spiritual battle eventually leading to the death of Anton.
https://youtu.be/OQWcNZwZVm4
He told this story on the blurry creatures podcast and it was the single greatest story I’ve ever heard.
Amen 🙏
Well said.
This⬆️⬆️⬆️!
Its possible many exoecisms are don by casting out devils with devils.
Protestants generally reject the necessity of a special ordained class with exclusive authority for this, stressing the "priesthood of all believers" (1 Peter 2:9) and direct access to God through Christ alone.
Protestants do deliverance instead.
I would also think the fact that there are ~8k denominations of Protestants makes consistency extremely hard since none of them agree fully.
Ah yes, the “8,000 denominations” line. It gets repeated with the confidence of a man who just counted all the blades of grass in his yard, but it wilts under inspection.
First, the number doesn’t come from some tidy theological census. It’s usually traced to data compiled by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity, which counts organizational units, not doctrinal systems. That means if a Baptist group in Texas and a Baptist group in Kenya have separate administrative structures, congratulations, you’ve just doubled your “denominations” without adding a single new belief.
Second, those same studies often report tens of thousands of Christian “denominations” globally, not just Protestant ones. The inflation happens because:
National branches are counted separately
Independent churches are counted individually
Minor governance differences get treated like theological revolutions
By that logic, you don’t have one fast food chain, you have 5,000 because every franchise has a different manager.
Third, when you actually group Protestants by doctrine rather than paperwork, you’re looking at a much smaller number:
Lutheran
Reformed
Anglican
Baptist
Methodist
Pentecostal
Non-denominational
Call it a few dozen meaningful theological traditions, not thousands of rival religions.
So the 8,000 figure is less a serious argument and more a statistical scarecrow. It looks imposing from a distance, but up close it’s just a pile of categories wearing a hat.
Catholics need to stop using this BS statistic like it's some sort of gotcha! It just makes them look either stupid or intellectually dishonest.
Edit: lol he blocked me! What a loser!
Lol? Who blocked you? Why the attacks? You sound like fun....
If sola scriptura is true and the Holy Spirit guides sincere believers, why can't Protestants agree on what the Bible teaches?
Protestants often emphasize "unity in essentials" but can't agree on what those essentials are.
So why so many families and denominations? Protestants are ALL over the board with their beliefs. The fact that none of you can agree on what the Bible says makes you "stupid or intellectually dishonest" as you say lol.
Chill on the hostility for no reason dude. No one attacked you.
This asshat is just a world class contrarian narcissist that needs to get the last word in and be pedantic on every single thing. This try-hard likes to speak in plurality to try and appear important or leverage illusion of power points. Read there posts it's like 90 percent angst and snark over nothing
No kidding hahaha I probably should look through people's history more often lol
amen
Agreed. God calls it in body, one Lord, one Baptism, one God and Father of all. Denimination is just a fancy word for division. God tells us to be likeminded not denominated. Smh.
I was raised Catholic and while I have my own issues with the church I can maybe offer some perspective.
Think about how our federal government is - basically dumbed down to serve the lowest common denominator. The catholic church has been doing that for almost 2000 years. It has to try to offer guidance and soul saving for everyone from the dumbest moron to the most sophisticated and learned.
When you think about what happens in an exorcism or deliverance, it's not a trivial event. Telling everyone that they can go out and try it without preparation is like handing out loaded handguns to children and hoping everything will turn out OK. Sure, it will for most, but the exceptions are going to make a big mess.
Maybe the Catholic church goes overboard trying to ensure that those who are on the front lines fighting demons are prepared for the consequences, but can you really blame them? This is serious stuff with serious consequences for everyone involved. You send your best, not cannon fodder.
This.
Also, not to belabor this, but think about what demons are.
They're definitely intelligent beings. They are not constrained by the physical realm as we are. They have millennia of experience and accumulated knowledge about humans in general and the people they interact with in particular. And God has allowed them to have powers that we don't completely understand.
From what I've read of exorcisms, the demons are constrained by God, but God also allows them free will and the ability to resist. The exorcism is as much as test of faith for the exorcist as it is a process for the possessed. It's not just utter a few incantations and demon-be-gone. And they don't just go sulk in a corner for eternity when they've been expelled and some are particularly experienced and difficult to fight. The Gospels call for putting on the armor of God. Like any war - putting on the armor is just the first step in preparation. You still have to fight and it is a war.
Yet they can be rage baited easier than humans.
This actually makes a lot of sense. I can tell this rings true
Protestants do it all the time. It’s certainly not confined to Roman Catholics. Not by a long shot.
Priestly ordination is a sacrament. It is not just a certificate from the seminary.
One would never know that by their crimes against children. One doesn't need a church to worship God. Organized religion is a trap
On crimes against children, to be fair to all:
Direct comparison studies indicate that abuse rates among Catholic priests and Protestant ministers are comparable, falling within a similar 2–5% range, though data collection methods differ significantly between the two groups. The John Jay College of Criminal Justice report found that approximately 4% of Catholic priests were credibly accused of abuse between 1950 and 2002, while data from Christian Ministry Resources and insurance claims suggests Protestant clergy abuse rates are similarly 2–3% or roughly 260 claims per year across 165,500 churches.
Key findings from available research include:
Data Disparity: The Catholic Church has a centralized hierarchy that maintains meticulous records, leading to higher visibility and publicity of cases, whereas the decentralized nature of most Protestant denominations makes comprehensive data collection difficult and often results in underreporting.
Offender Demographics: Studies show that the majority of offenders in both Catholic and Protestant settings are male, typically middle-aged (around 40–60 years old), and often serve in mid-level positions like associate pastors or youth ministers.
Contextual Factors: While the absolute number of Catholic cases is high due to the Church's size, experts note that abuse is not unique to Catholic clergy; rates in Protestant churches are often driven by volunteers rather than ordained ministers, and some studies suggest Protestant congregations may have higher total allegations due to a larger number of volunteer youth leaders.
Group Estimated Offender Rate Data Source/Context Catholic Priests ~4.0% John Jay College Report (1950–2002) Protestant Clergy 2–3% Christian Ministry Resources / Insurance Claims K-12 Educators 5–7% Comparative institutional data General Male Pop. ~5% Comparative baseline
Experts emphasize that no formal comparative study has ever definitively proven that one denomination has a significantly higher incidence of abuse than the other, with the perception of a Catholic problem largely attributed to the Church's centralized record-keeping and the sheer scale of its global membership.
I so agree!!
That's what happens when you have homosexuals trying to suppress their sinfulness by going into the priesthood. No Catholic priests, homosexual or not, meets the biblical requirements for being a pastor or elder that's clearly laid-forth in scripture. It must be a married man with obedient children. The Catholic Church ignores this and the molestation problem is fruit of disobedience from God's word.
Well you certainly didn't test that with scripture did you?
That sentiment sounds rugged and independent, like a man declaring he doesn’t need a body because he’s quite fond of his head. It has a certain frontier charm, right up until you open the Bible.
Start with the obvious: Christ did not die to create a loose association of spiritual freelancers. He established a church. Not a vibe. Not a podcast. A real, visible people. In Matthew 16:18, He says He will build His church. Not suggest it. Not outsource it to your morning coffee devotion.
The apostle Paul, who was not known for ecclesiastical minimalism, says the church is the body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12. If you don’t need the church, then apparently elbows and knees are optional now. Let me know how jogging goes with that arrangement.
And just to make sure no one tries the “just me and God” routine, we’re told plainly in Hebrews 10:25 not to neglect meeting together. The early Christians didn’t take that as a polite suggestion. They gathered, worshiped, received the Word, and submitted to leadership.
Which brings us to another uncomfortable point: Scripture actually commands believers to submit to elders in Hebrews 13:17. Hard to do that from your couch while declaring organized religion a trap. Unless your couch has recently been ordained.
Now, are there bad churches? Of course. There are bad marriages too, but that doesn’t mean you declare covenant life itself a scam and marry your houseplant. Abuse of a thing does not cancel its proper use.
The idea that “organized religion is a trap” usually ends with one man appointing himself pope of his own private universe. No accountability, no correction, no sacraments, no discipline. Just him, his Bible, and a suspiciously consistent agreement between the two.
Christians don’t gather because God needs attendance. We gather because we do. God has ordained the church as the ordinary means of grace, where the Word is preached, the sacraments are administered, and the saints are built up together.
So no, you don’t need a church the way a fish doesn’t need water. You can certainly try life without it. Just don’t be surprised when things start to smell off rather quickly.
You should absolutely be a part of a solid church but that's where the discernment kicks in. There are a lot of churches I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.
The only trap you seem to have forgotten is the one where the wolves single out of sheep for slaughter away from the herd and shepherd.
I appreciate your perspective, although I find myself unable to align with your reasoning and the selective use of scripture to substantiate your viewpoint. If affiliation with an organized religion provides you with personal fulfillment, I commend that. As an individual who no longer actively participates in Catholicism, I personally did not derive satisfaction from attending Mass nor choose to join another denomination. No group think for me
Neither is necessary to meet with a congregation. Forget the building if need be, but don’t throw out the assembly.
Hebrews 10:25 in particular, as was pointed out - 24 Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another; and so much the more, as you see the Day approaching.
I don’t believe in denominations myself, nor that “weekly sermon attendance” is necessary (though I do try to do so regularly), but the “good works” and “assembly” parts should not be neglected. We had a group who left our church to begin regular home-based worship/study.
One of the points of the crucifixion, imho, was the removal of the required central earthly authority.
Okay you said selective use of scripture to substantiate my viewpoint. But out of the two of us on the only one that actually used scripture. Would you like to provide some scripture that substantiates your own viewpoint? Then I'll respond. Because either God's word is the ultimate authority, or your own thoughts and feelings are.
You know who else doesn't think that God's word is the ultimate authority? The Catholic Church.
I don't fault you for having a bad experience with that organization that has deviated so far from and added so much to God's word and made their own standards.
However I believe that's led you to an over generalization fallacy. Not all churches or organizations are equal. That's like saying you won't fly an American flag because LGBT Q+ and Nazi flags exist so you're holding flags as a whole accountable.
At the end of the day God's word commands believers to be a part of the body of Christ. That is part of worshiping God. If you love God you will obey His commandments. Just as Jesus said that the Sabbath wasn't for God, it was for men, the same can be said for attending church. It's not so God can grow in himself, it's so you can be surrounded by other believers and grow.
I would encourage you to find a solid local, non-catholic Church and attend.
I understand that you've been burned before and your instinct is to avoid the kitchen entirely. Fair enough. But the answer is not starvation, it is finding a place that actually cooks real food.
Here's what I would suggest looking for:
📖 1. Scripture Is the Final Authority Preaching comes straight from the Bible, not opinions dressed in religious language The pastor explains the text in context, not cherry-picked slogans Look for steady teaching through books like Romans or Ephesians
✝️ 2. Christ-Centered, Not Institution-Centered Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection are the focus Salvation is taught as grace through faith, not earned performance No sense that the church itself is the gatekeeper of salvation
👥 3. Healthy Leadership (Plural and Accountable) More than one elder or leader, not a one-man show Leaders are approachable and accountable No celebrity-pastor culture
🧱 4. Clear Gospel, Not Guilt Manipulation Sin is taken seriously, but grace is bigger No pressure tactics, fear-based control, or spiritual intimidation Repentance is real, but not weaponized
🤝 5. Real Community (Not Just a Weekly Event) People actually know each other Opportunities for fellowship, service, and mutual care You are not just a seat-filler
🛐 6. Simple, Reverent Worship Focus on God, not production value Music and liturgy support truth, not emotional hype Ordinances like baptism and communion are practiced thoughtfully
⚖️ 7. Transparency and Integrity Financial clarity No secrecy around leadership decisions Willingness to answer hard questions without getting defensive
I truly appreciate your thoughtful response. I don't even know where to find a church that you describe😞 I live in Massachusetts. Our local Baptist church has rainbow flags and Black Lives Matter signs all over it. My state is completely corrupted
I genuinely hope that you're able to find something that's not retarded and/or gay nearby.
Here's a good starting point:
https://www.naparc.org/directories-2/
I'm with you, and praise be, I found my church after years of searching for, and commitment to, some real duds. I knew in the Spirit I had to keep looking.
Paul opens up Romans touching on how I feel about it:
1:11-12 11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith.
Amen.
Apostasy is a big component of the illuminati. So, are they really priests or infiltrators? Apostasy happens across all the religions to destroy them.
If they got that certificate from a seminary they might have actually read the biblical requirements for a priest which is a married man with obedient children.
No unmarried Catholic priests meet the very basic and clear biblical requirements for being a pastor or even an elder that are laid forth in scripture.
You keep saying this.
the biblical requirements for a priest which is a married man with obedient children
I only see the requirements for a bishop/elder called out.
Timothy 3:2-4: States that an overseer (bishop) must be "the husband of one wife" and "must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive."
Titus 1:5-6: Instructs Titus to appoint elders in every town, specifying that an elder must be "the husband of one wife" and have "faithful children."
Does it really matter? All positions of authority, as referenced in my post above are open to corruption.
Sorry if you had a personal experience that hurt you if that is the case. Unfortunately, it's not limited to a single denomination or Christianity for that matter.
The “well, all positions of authority are corruptible, so why quibble over qualifications?” argument is tired and so obviously felicious did it shouldn't even require response but here we go..... It’s the spiritual equivalent of saying, “My brakes are worn out, but hey, every car eventually stops, so what’s the point?”
Look, Scripture lays down concrete requirements for elders/bishops. (You can quibble over the names but it's church leadership which has different names across different denominations) These are not suggestions. Not optional guidelines. Paul is explicit: the man must be “the husband of one wife” and must manage his household well, with obedient children (1 Timothy 3:2-4; Titus 1:5-6). That’s not arbitrary moralism, it’s proof of character and spiritual oversight. If a man can’t rule his own household, how can he rule God’s household?
Catholic priests, for the most part, are celibate and childless, so by the plain text of Scripture, they simply don’t meet the biblical qualifications for an elder. You can argue charisma, apostolic succession, or exorcism rituals all you like, but that’s not the biblical standard. It’s like trying to play professional football without being able to run. You might still throw a pass or tackle someone, but that doesn’t make you a quarterback.
As for corruption, yes, all authority is corruptible. That’s why God gives clear criteria, not optionalities. Ignoring the qualifications because “everyone sins” is like burning the instruction manual because even the best mechanics sometimes drop a wrench.
So yes, it does matter, and Scripture is unambiguous: an elder must be a husband with obedient children. That’s not negotiable, and it isn’t a matter of opinion. Everything else is extra, and appealing to exceptions does nothing to satisfy the plain text.
As far as you assuming that I've been in some way hurt or harmed by the Catholic Church, no. Your assumption is wrong. This isn't a personal vendetta, this is doing what scripture commands which is testing everything with scripture and objectively observing what happens when you ignore God's standards. Basically I have a Bible, eyes, and enough interactions with not only the Catholic Church but also other persons that put themselves in roles of leadership that aren't qualified to see what that can ultimately lead to in many cases.
Read the books by Books by Gabriele Amorth, experienced exorcist. Remember frens, not long ago, demonic possession and exorcism were made fun of!
If you saw the movie, you learned that confronting demons is not something you want to try at home. This is not a battle of men, but of principalities and powers. There is one Spirit but many gifts: not every Christian is called to cast out demons.
Demons as fallen angels are strong and powerful, tricky, seductive, scary, liars, etc.
Serious possessions or manifestations are not something to take lightly.
We need not fear demons, as they are subject to the Lord. But we are not to engage with them. I am fine with shouting out "BE GONE SATAN, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!" I say the St. Michael prayer regularly, sometimes more than once a day. I have Holy Water and other sacramentals in my home. We are indeed not defenseless. But leave exorcism to those trained to deal with all the tricks and treachery the demon will throw back at them.
Protestant pastors DO do that. They don't call it exorcism, they call it Deliverance. Or 'bondage breaking'.
I had no idea about that, thanks
It isn’t excessively common, to be fair.
I am Catholic. At one time I worked with the priest who was the exorcist in the diocese. He was specially trained in deliverance and exorcism. I have found and experienced that only priests who are trained in this area are willing to engage in this battle.
I have witnessed/assisted in an exorcism. (It was not a full-fledged possession. More like oppression.) There are varying levels of demonic influence. I have also personally warred against demons who were attacking a loved one. I used prayers contained in a book for deliverance for the laity, spoken with a great command and confidence which rose up in my spirit. These prayers seemed to be effective in driving away the demonic, which I give all credit to The Holy Spirit's intercession. It has been my experience that it is the words spoken with the authority that Jesus has given His faithful, and with complete confidence in Him and in using His authority that are effective. Praise be to God.
Firstly, with a purely Scriptural understanding, how are devils driven out?
With the Word of God.
And that Word is not inclusive to some denomination, especially not to the system of Roman Catholicism which is the complete antithesis of Christianity.
This is because in the Roman system, their "exorcisms" are no more than magical charades of a continuing Egyptian and ultimately Babylonian magic(k) with a K. Sorcery is the plain realization of esoteric “magick”, with Aleister Crowley defining “magick”, with a “k”, as the “science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will." The easiest, most blatant example of the "conformity with will" is found in the Jesuit Order that teaches its members to obey the pope "perinde ac si cadaver", or in other words "obedience as a corpse". This is all part of Egyptian Heka magick, which also taught the same things that you find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church such as the teaching of an immortal soul. You find this teaching, both in Egypt and in the system of Roman Catholicism, in the Book of the Dead
And this teaching, being that of an immortal soul, was the first lie of the Devil.
Now one of the first modern authors on magic and the occult was Eliphas Levi, a Roman Catholic whose worked served as the primary influence for the writings of the open Satanist Helena Blavatsky. The works of Levi and Blavatsky were continued by Alice A. Bailey and Aleister Crowley, with Crowley even establishing a school of magic which he called the “Collegium ad Spritium Sanctum”, a “College towards the Holy Spirit”. This school was housed in what Crowley called the “Abbey of Thelema”, whose name was taken from the writings of Francois Rabelais, a Roman Catholic Franciscan Friar.
Not only was the Abbey of Thelema was managed according to the Jesuit moral code, but most, if not all, of the associates and influences of Crowley were agents of the Vatican, whether it was Arthur Edward Waite, Karl von Eckartshausen, Ivan Lopuchin, Henry Christopher Watts, the Knights Templars, the Knights of Malta, or even Cardinal Rampola, former Papal Secretary of State and candidate for Pope. Rampola lost his bid for the title of Pontifex Maximus only after his connection to Freemasonry was leaked to the public.
In the ancient Mesopotamian book "The Golden Age of Sumer", magick was performed by specialists, known as Ashipu, who used rituals and incantations in combat against spirits and demons. In ancient Sumerian mythology, Nergal, which is name that has been missionary adapted into the Greek/Roman Apollo, had a consort named Ereshkigal. Her name, just like the Roman Catholic Mary, who is not the Mary of the Bible but the missionary adapted name from Inanna/Ishtar/Astarte/Tammuz/Isis/Hertha/Disa/Aphrodite/Venus/whatever, was commonly invoked in the Sumerian acts of exorcism.
Now when you study the archaeology of Sumerian times, you will find the same use of "holy water", the same access to "blessed herbs", the same rites and rituals as performed in the system of Roman Catholicism. But instead of using the names of the Babylonian deities, they used the names found written in the Bible and paganized Christianity into what is now called "Roman Catholicism".
Read this excerpt from the F. Tupper Saussy book "Rulers of Evil" on how Pagan Rome was hidden under Papal Rome:
On the Roman Catholic Mary, it is no small coincidence that the city of Ephesus was the main hub of Diana worship and that their livelihood depending on the sale of their magickal and astrological idols of wood and stone (Acts 19:24-27,35). At the Council of Ephesus in 431, the system of Roman Catholicism gave the title of “Mother of God”, a title also held by the Ephesian Diana, to the Roman Mary. The image of Mary had solidly replaced that of Diana
Now do you know what else happened on the 25th of December? Let us go to the Encyclopaedia Britannica:
Exactly 70 years prior, Attalus III, the last king of Pergamos and direct remnant of the Babylonian priesthood, willed to the Roman Empire the dominion of Pergamos but stated that self-deification was a requirement to exercise all the powers of the Pontifex Maximus. The one who holds the title of Pontifex Maximus holds the title of High Priest of Babylon. In 48 BC this was Julius Caesar of Pagan Rome, today it is whichever pope is put into the position of Bishop of Rome, of Pontifex Maximus, in Papal Rome.
And having the title of Pontifex Maximus makes the holder the ruler over the Chaldeans who were verily the magicians and astrologers of ancient Sumer. Now the actual reading and learning of magic was treated as a hidden and esoteric “craft” available only to the magicians of the time. The magicians were the clergy and spiritual leaders of the time, and most if not all of ancient society was run by the magicians, just as the society of ancient Rome was run by the priests. Do they still see themselves as these magickal priests, as these priest-god-kings as the Caesars or as the Chaldeans? Let us have them say so in their own words:
The Catechism of the Council of Trent for Parish Priests came this conclusion:
Alphonsus de Liguori, a canonized saint of Papal Rome, sais the following:
Open up the Vatican Library and you will find the title of "Vicarius Filii Dei" (VFD), which means "in-the-place-of-Christ", which means "anti-Christ", as another title exclusive to the Pontifex Maximus of Papal Rome. Searching according to their index, the title of VFD can be found in places such as: Vat.lat.1375 F 79r; 1374 F 71r; 1373 F 103v; 1370 F 72v; 1367 F 64v; 1376 F 66v; 2701 F 220r, Pal.lat.621 Folio 111r; 623 Folio 79r, Reg.lat.413.pt.2 F 262v, Ross.308 F 95v; 307 F 93v, Stamp.Ross.1197 F 96v, Arch.Cap.S.Pietro.A.24 F 83r; 25 F 76v; 26 F 86v, and Urb.lat.161 F 82r.
The title is also written directly by the pen of the popes such as Pope Innocent III in “Inter Corporalia”, Pope Gregory XIII in “Corpus Iuris Canonici”, Pope John XXII in “Licet Juxta Doctrina”, and much, much more. More recently it was writtenin “De Fernando Poo (Rivi Muniensis)” in 1965, and “Bafianae” in 1968. The title of VFD was even written by Pope Nicholas II in “Fundamenta Militantis Ecclesiae”, translated as “The Foundations of the Church Militant”, when depicting the Pope as the general of the system of Roman Catholicism. Is not a general a leader of a military?
So they may claim to cast out devils in the name of Jesus, but it is certainly nothing more than an act of magick for the deception of souls.
So escape from the bewitching sorceries and magick of tradition,
learn not of those who fashion the wood and the stone,
but learn more of He who made all things, and by Him all things consist. Jesus is the head of the church, and a church which is not obedient unto the commands of the head is no church of Jesus indeed.
I’m glad I saw this, thanks.
u/winn , there’s your theory’s proof. Definitely one of them, as it exists today.
I still won’t be saying “I’m against it” as that doesn’t strike me as being beneficial toward getting people to reconsider things, and there are still portions that I do admire.
I seek awareness and correction (where I can help), more than casting blame or labels.
Thank you for taking the time to read the entirety of the study.
Reading your answer, the following (2-part comment!) might prove insightful to the points that you italicized. And u/winn, read the next (2!) parts that both begin in bold if you were seeking for other evidences and histories on the "666" title of VFD. You should find something useful for whatever work you are compiling.
And please, never think of such comments as the casting of blame or the labeling of shame, but think of it as a desperate plea cried out in tones of love. If people do not know the truth of the system which they find themselves in, then how will they know that they have to separate themselves from it? Only when people are made aware of a problem will they then go seeking for its solution.
And only in seeking, with a conscious decision that comes from the heart, will they find.
Because nothing good will be accomplished by force, as force is what paralyzes the will.
So how can you present an uplifted Jesus? By, in all meekness and lowliness, with all love and tenderness, bringing a knowledge and understanding of that which lifted Him up. Set right the character of God as He wrote, with His finger in stone, in His law. Then He will do the uplifting. Show that love is married to duty, that justice is married to mercy, and that obedience is a free-will offering of faith, even as the fruits of faith; for to be free is to be in the image of Christ, and to accept the free gift of salvation is verily to accept the gift of the character of God.
And law, just as character, can never be forced, for to force a law is to force a character is to force a kingdom is to force a king. Especially in these times, it is necessary to share with people the love of the truth, which is found in the law (Psalm 119:142) just as it is found in Jesus (John 14:6), so that they will not be deceived once another law, even another character, is presented as being of God despite verily being in-the-place-of God. Any man, or any system, that seeks to legislate morality, is seeking to legislate God.
Now do you want to read something even more amazing on the title of VFD?
In Leviticus 24:18, the grammatical substitute, being the word used to replace a previously used word, here being the substitute for the word “beast”, is “vicarium” in the Latin. In the Greek, the grammatical substitute used in the stead of "vicarium" is “anti”. Therefore in the Latin, the title of “Vicarius Christi” can be seen as directly analogous to the Greek title of “Anti-Christos”.
Look back to 1871 and you will find that the Ladies of the Royal Court of King Leopold II of Belgium, as a show of fealty, gifted a papal mitre to Pope Pius IX (which he accepted). On it is written “Regnum Atque Populorum Patri; Orbis Supremo In Terra Rectory; Iesu Christi Vicario Infallibili”. The title of “Antichrist”, in the form of “Christi Vicario”, has even been worn atop the crown of the Pontifex Maximus.
Now the title of VFD adds up to, using the Roman numeral system, 666. But the numbers themselves also have a meaning in Koine Greek, which is the language mostly used in the original writing of the New Testament of the Bible. The number "666" is the transliteration of χξC, or “chi-xi-stigma”. In Strong’s Concordance, these root words, used as numbers, are the 22nd, 14th, and an obsolete letter that is transitory between the 5th and 6th. Let us unpack this.
Now the Roman numeral system came from the Greek practice of isopsephy. Used as a method of divination, isopsephy assigns numbers to individual Greek letters then counts the sum of its values. This method, used widely in astrological worship, was copied and adopted by the Romans. Any system primarily invoking "divination" or "prophecy" through the matching of numbers comes from a heathen form of sun, moon, and star worship (see: Baal worship as in 2 Kings 23:5).
When the number “666” was assigned to the beast (Revelation 13:18), the practice of isopsephy was daily used and widely adopted as a cultural norm rather than an esoteric understanding. The numbers would not only represent objects of worship, such as Saturn and Jupiter, but in times of religious persecution, such as when the Revelation was written, isopsephy was used to keep the intents of a message hidden behind a numerical number. What is absolutely fascinating is that the writer of the Revelation, John, softly confirms these conditions in his third epistle, 3 John, verses 13-14. Paul provides a second witness to this in 2 Thessalonians 2:5-7 when describing the system of Roman Catholicism in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
In a time where no letter would escape the prying eye of Roman intelligence, where at times even mentioning the very name of Jesus could warrant persecution unto death, the counting of “666” would be used to ensure that the letter would not be confiscated so that the message would not be cut short.
The isopsephy of 666, being the number of a man who represents the system of the beast, was cleverly communicated as the persecuting power of the beast of Rome. Back then, this was the common understanding with Pagan Rome still visibly being in charge, but through tactics such as the Roman learning-against-learning that seek to make a people deficient in doctrine but full of words, it is no longer as common knowledge as it should be.
In case you may have been looking for other titles to affirm these things, please continue reading:
In “Extravagantes Viginti Johannis Vigesimisecundi” there is a Gloss. A Gloss is a separate commentary alongside a work that contains support from canon law. It says:
The very specific title of “Our Lord God the Pope”, “Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam” (DDNP) in the original Latin, is a very direct claim to being the replacement of Jesus Christ the Lord God of creation (Genesis 2:4) and of redemption (Exodus 20:2). The Sabbath, not as kept by Jewish tradition but as kept in harmony with the Bible, is the visible marker which identifies Jesus Christ as the Creator and the Redeemer of all things, so would not the mark of the beast be a counterfeit claim to some other day? Just some seeds for planting. Let us continue with the title of DDNP.
The historian and priest Antonio Pereira de Figueiredo, a priest whose existence has even been denied by the Vatican Library, wrote the following on the Gloss:
The edition of the official, revised, and authoritative collection of Church Canon Law being referred to is “Corpus Juris Canonici”.
So how does the literature of Rome define the word "pope"? Here is a definition from an Ultramontanist (Jesuit) Encyclopedia, the Prompta Bibliotheca:
Wonder who taught them those ideas?
Now Augustinus Triumphus is a non-Jesuit and is here quoted just to ensure that this is the entire system and mindset of Rome. In his “Summa de Potestate Ecclesia” he writes:
Augustinus was an Augustiniun just like the current Pope Leo XIV.
Returning to the origin of VFD, using the name of Constantine, the Donation of Constantine was written some centuries after his death. Proven by Lorenzo Valla to be fraudulent, this forged document was used by 10 popes over a period of 6 centuries to assert not only their ecclesiastical supremacy over all the churches, but also their political sovereignty over what became known as the Papal States. One title in particular, first written in the Donation, made it into the Decretum Gratiani: “Vicarius Filii Dei”. Distinció 19 of the Decretum states that “these decretal epistles are to be co-enumerated with canonical Scripture”. This means that the works of Valla are found in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum while the Decretum Gratiani, which claims forgery as truth, is to be treated with the same authority as the Bible. Even the bible which they sanction, which is based off of the “Versio Septuaginta Interpretum”, or the “Translation of the Seventy Interpreters”, is based off of a forged letter, this time being of a letter written by Aristeas.
To support their claim to “Peter” as “the rock” or the "VFD", the system of Roman Catholicism uses the Greek interpretation of Matthew 16:18. But the book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic, and the Greek language lacks the flexibility of this Semitic language in the use of conjunctions. The Greek “καί” (kai), typically translated into the english “and”, is a rendering of the Aramaic ו (waw). Waw is a neutral term that must be interpreted in the context in which it is written.
With these things in mind, the meaning of the name “Peter”, which is the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic name “Kepha”, is “a pebble” or “a small stone”. This translation from “Kepha”, to “Peter”, to “a stone”, was perhaps given in John 1:42 with the foreknowledge that the name of “Peter” would be perverted in the future. Therefore, in the context of Matthew 16:18, the Aramaic “waw” is used to contrast Peter “a stone” to Jesus Christ “the Rock” (1 Corinthians 10:4). By contrasting with the position of Peter as man, the emphasis is then put on the position of Jesus as God and as the Foundation of faith to be built upon, even as the Rock to be built upon one small stone at a time.
Marking the 1700th anniversary of the Council of Nicaea, the current Pope, Pope Leo XIV, even reaffirms the consequences of the council. In his letter titled “In Unitate Fide”, Leo XIV declares the Council of Nicaea as “the first ecumenical gathering in the history of Christianity.” He affirms the implications of “Vicarius Filii Dei” and the Gnostic Greek origins of Papal Rome when he states that “Saint Athanasius explains that the Son of God became man so that man might be deified. [5] This enlightening understanding of divine revelation was prepared by Saint Irenaeus of Lyon and Origen, and then further developed with great richness in Eastern spirituality. [...] Divinization, then, is true humanization". Divination, just as the Greek and Roman use of isopsephy, is true humanization. Esoterically, this is a reference to the "666" and a claim that true humanization is in harmony with the forgeries of the Devil.
Going back to Genesis 3:4, the word for “die” is translated from the word “mûṯ”, a verb referring to a permanent death “by neglect of wise moral conduct”. The question of life and death is a question of what is wise moral conduct, and therefore who is the moral authority in life. This is the most important question to have a reasonable answer for, for this very question of morality and conduct is the greatest weapon which Satan has. While the teaching of soul immortality, of inherent god-hood, and of the ability to be your own moral authority, was presented as wise moral conduct, such teachings were, and still are separating man from living in the very image of God, even from being children and stewards of His life. If the question of wise moral conduct was the decisive question presented in the very Garden of Eden, how much more-so will it be presented to the world today.
Wew, lad. That’s gonna take some chewin.
This is amazing thank you.
The primal error is believing in the need for man-made religions, the need to pay other men to intercede on your behalf to talk to God.
Unlike faith and spirituality, which arise from within (from God), religions are external schemes founded on 'soul control' and extracting tax-free money from masses of people. To accomplish this, they weaponize fear and psychological manipulation techniques perfected over millennia.
The belief that a dude in a Catholic collar can cast out demons, but one in a different collar cannot, is just that...a belief. Belief is thinking something is true without having any basis in objective fact, direct experience, math, or observable reality.
How much might possession in the first place be something that can happen when a person thinks he is not strong enough alone and needs the help of somebody more educated, or with "closer" connection to God to help if an evil spirit starts to pursue him, instead of having the faith that no matter what his personal weaknesses he has all the protection he needs when he believes that he has it if he just asks God for His help, and is able to believe that that help is always granted if asked? Kind of learned helplessness that can happen when a system is organized like most churches are, when there are these leaders who supposedly are the ultimate authority you'd always need to listen to?
Maybe the Catholics are "brainwashed " to accept the priest is the only one who can drive out demons. By an early age the Cathilics have been taught only an all powerful person is the only one who can cast away the evil one. Whereas most Protestants are taught that the individual is able to pray to God for intercession and by having that communication is all that is necessary for the demons to be tossed away.
As a Catholic, I do believe there is an element of gatekeeping, but it is not stuff to be messed with.
Similar to tarot an ouija boards.
You’re not wrong. Not just anybody should go around trying to run exorcisms. It takes a level of preparation. Demon encounters are quite … significant.
There are also elements of gatekeeping involved in things, yes.
To be fair, the vast majority of people in any church are just looking for basic instructions to live their lives and get through the day. The Catholic church, in particular, has formalized this to a meticulous degree as you would expect from any centralized body with a long history. You can choose how much you want to know and the resources are there at whatever level you want to pursue.
It's really just a small minority who want to dive into the "why" and an even smaller who want to deep dive into the weeds in philosophy, history and theology needed to truly understand what gets distilled into the simple "instruction manual" that most people are happy to just follow.
I think that part of the reason that the Catholic church maintains vows for priests, particularly celibacy, is that to do the job right, you don't have time to maintain personal relationships (and certainly not children) or attachments to worldly things. I have a heckuva time trying to be a good husband and keeping a roof over our heads - can't imagine how I'd also lead a congregation and/or advise others well in spiritual matters without compromising that.
https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments-and-sacramentals/sacramentals-blessings/exorcism
I have said for decades, we all worship the Lord, Jesus Christ our Savior, so WHY all the petty fighting? How much stronger would we be if the different denominations would stop attacking each other and focus instead on a united front against Satan?
👆🙏
Makes zero sense - unless its another planned division to keep us in dark. Light destroys dark, if we were not infighting, it would be much more difficult for the dark.
It makes sense. Someone thinks the scriptures mean one thing, someone thinks they mean another. The two understandings aren’t always compatible. One of Jesus purposes seems to have been to correct some portion of that.
I imagine there has to be a better way to resolve the issue than “I’m separate here, you’re separate there”. Christians have to do a better job at dying to self than we’ve done…
In my experience, its mostly stupid shit. End of day, belief in Jesus, Lord and Savior, is what gets you to God.
Some is salvific, and that is a more serious issue, other is just dogma and quibbling over divine mysteries, as if we know them, other is disputation on being the greatest or least in Heaven, which is an important matter, but yes, plenty of stupid nonsense in there, too.
It just seems to me that they ignore the most important part and focus on the petty crap. Everyone believes in Jesus Christ. I believe in saints. If you dont, idc. Thats on you. If I'm wrong, that affects others zero. Its on ME. My belief or lack of belief in something other than Jesus Christ doesn't alter that fact. I just think tje entire thing is stupid and self defeating
Exactly.
I’ve still been trying to address some things where I’m quite positive people are in error (which, by no means, implies I am somehow perfected). They won’t affect their salvation, I don’t think, but they may affect where they end up in Heaven, and gentle correction is proscribed by the apostles.
I do think there’s room for that, but I’d never denounce someone as a brother over those things, and do think others shouldn’t either.
Isaiah 1:18 - “Come, let us reason together.”
Do notice that I feel like I am mostly agreeing with you, and simply adding detail.
They aren't the only ones.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/2019/09/exorcism-vatican-training-protestants/
Sorry, the link above is behind a paywall.
Not anymoar! https://archive.is/JVl2e
Thanks. “Christianity Today” and paywall is an oxymoron.
This was interesting;
Here's another link from a Catholic site:
https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=80934
and from the Christian Post:
https://www.christianpost.com/news/gabe-lyons-why-dont-protestants-talk-more-about-demons-exorcism-spiritual-world.html
“Christianity Today”, iirc, ain’t very Christian (pretty sure they’re the one I’m thinking about, but not positive and not going to double check).
“Progressive Christian” with a lot of noticeably distinguished editors, iirc. If not them, it’s someone with a similar name.
Thank you fren!
Yes, in fact, Protestants remove unwanted spirits / entities, they just tend not to use the term Exorcism, they call it “Deliverance”.
This might be a better bit of information for you. https://scholar.csl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=osp
In the Protestant world it's called something more like "deliverance". While it seems very few pastors even talk about spiritual warfare, there are deliverance ministers out there. They just don't call it exorcism, except in the Catholic church.
Casting out spirits is not only performed by Catholics. Demonic possession happens everywhere around the world, and they are cast out by all varieties of denominations, even by non-Christians, such as Muslims (they call them jinn).
Not just Catholics. Jesus did it, and He was never Catholic.
BTW, I have been studying the Bible and various religions and Protestant denominations since 1966. I haven't found a single one that conforms 100% to what the Bible actually says. Not one.
There are some Protestants who believe the 'power' gifts of the Spirit ended when the last of the apostles died, others believe somewhat later. (Power gifts = prophecy, tongues and interpretation of tongues, healing, casting out demons) So they exclude themselves by definition. (Mostly this will be a combination of Reformed and Baptist groups)
Other Protestant groups, in particular the Pentecostal groups, will talk about this -especially the Assembly Of God and other groups. They don't always broadcast it widely though, usually they communicate this information through newsletters, magazines and other print media.
Sounds like a setup for a joke.
I think the answer is somewhere in the details...
The whole idea another man, funny Dagon hat or not, has any higher lot regarding spirit than you is one of the most arrogant, obnoxious and ghey things ever to "grace" this planet.
Raging crackheads, methheads, tweakers and zombies have muddied the waters...severe chemical imbalances don't constitute being possessed by the debble, even though some seem to think so.
There's a whole lot of superstition and fear around this topic that makes people believe things that aren't real - the phenomenon is rare. So many love theatrics... like the ghost hunter shows.
Who says they are? It is common in my world.
Additional thoughts-
Deliverance / bonds broken - can be done in as little as an hour or so, depending on the number of sins/demons that are present. It’s almost always more though, especially if the person has been involved with the occult because those demons are normally stronger and associated with others in layers.
I’ve been in two that lasted over 4 hours. Most are around 2-3 hours. Only 3 have been incomplete or not successful. Why? Because the person wanted to hang onto some form of unforgiveness towards someone else OR they wanted to keep the demon and/or worldly things that gave them power.
Otherwise, everything comes out. All demons must leave a believer who wants deliverance, when the name of Jesus is used. The power in His name is incredible.
Despite all the issues of hierarchy and man-made structure within the Roman Catholic Church, one advantage is that they have preserved tradition and practices through the ages. In short, they have methods that are reliable, and it's all written down.
Most protestants are far less disciplined in terms of documenting this kind of stuff, but they still perform exorcisms regularly.
Fun fact- every Catholic church (almost, they have slackers and temporary issues) has holy water available on request, sometimes with a modest charge but usually free. Although Protestant pastors will bless water on occasion, I've never known a Protestant church to make it really available to the public or even to the congregation. Holy water is a very useful tool when fighting or exorcising evil spirits.
THIS: "Holy water is a very useful tool when fighting or exorcising evil spirits."
Holy Water is in every Catholic Church. Just take a container to fill, it is definitely free. I have some in my home at all times.
I read that even a few drops of holy water infuses other water, so I use a few drops in every load of laundry.
My dear lady, you are a fountain of knowledge, excuse the pun. 👍
Amen. I bless my daughter and husband every night with holy water.
I love all your useful advice; looking into that now
That and blessed salt. Also - some priests will exorcise the water first before blessing it. (I understand that demons can be attached to anything.)
BTW, I find it appalling that some churches charge for holy water?!?
I've found it in 2 places ... One was a mission, so more a historical site than a typical church, and it was 25 cents per container. The other church had a similarly modest fee, but it surprised me.
At .25 per container, did you supply the container, or did the church?
I think I did.
Ah, well there goes that thought. Nice name. Have you seen the lyrics/subject pie chart for LZ? What am I saying, this is GAW. Did you make the LZ lyrics/ subject pie chart?
Hasn't everyone made that? That was like the biggest thing to practice for the SAT. https://share.google/images/E1TFh4WvzUpxVk95d
Maybe it's the Holy Water they use?
They can’t. Ancient secret formulas aren’t necessary.
The rites, "holy water", etc, are all worthless. Jesus instructs us in the Bible that if we are Christians, we have the AUTHORITY (NOT the POWER) to cast out demons, in Jesus' name.
Jesus has the power. God has the power. We as Christians only have the authority to call upon the Lord for His power.
So the trinkets and baubles and devices used by priests, along with the scripted rites? Worthless.
Protestants believe in the "Priesthood of the Believer"...We don't need intermediaries. JESUS is the intermediary. Not some priest doing rites in Latin.
As far as the use of trinkets? Jesus warned us of only one kind of evil spirit...the one that strikes the possessed one MUTE... as the only kind of demon that requires more than a Christian's word. The additional effort is 100% spiritual and from God. Jesus said that type of spirit can only be driven out with PRAYER and FASTING. 100% based on the Christian's relationship with God.
Trinkets and baubles are paganism.
Thank you for this. I have always believed that you do the right thing because you are saved, and there are illiterate people in third world countries who still can go to heaven, so so what is the baseline in that case? They don't know religion, but they can still find Jesus. I am lutheran, but I know a lot of bad people that go to church. We're not supposed to add or take away from the word of god, either, so that's why I was asking the question, because I only ever hear about catholics doing all this stuff.
One of my daughter's toys was saying her name at 1 AM, and I burned that toy and said "in Jesus's name, leave and you are not welcome back." I know it's kind of a trailer trash version of an exorcism, but because I am a believer, that should be enough. I was listening to a podcast from a catholic priest talking about this stuff, and that's why I asked the question.
Who says a Catholic priest can even drive out a demon? Just because they say it doesn’t make it so.
Could it be the apostolic succession? When Christ can back from the dead, he blew on the apostles & some churches interpret this as their bishop ordination. They of course, ordinated others in the course of their life & those who had often did likewise & so one. All bishops of the Orthodox, Catholic & Episcopal lines can trace their ordination from bishop to bishop all the way back to one (or more) of those apostles & then to Christ. A bishop once took me into his office & showed me his personal chart. (He put it away quickly after - I could see that it was very special to him) But he showed me. I would have loved to have studied it or xeroxed it or something.
So maybe this is it. IDK. During the reformation neither Luther Nor Calvin were a bishop so they could not pass this down. The Episcopal church, however broke off from the Catholic with bishops in tact so they still, supposedly have it. I do know of an Episcopal priest, however, who did such an exorcism, successfully so I heard but years later that same priest was caught doing something immoral & was kicked out of the church. (I assume that when a priest does an exorcism they would be a bigger target for the demons to attack for obvious reasons) So if you know a priest willing to do something like that, pray for them after. That's just my suggestion but I think it is quite a service & sacrifice for them to dare to do
BTW I also agree with tg who says that all of us can cast out demons but likewise just remember to remember whoever did that in your prayers, if you would <3
They are just the MSM media of it. It’s actually our savior the demons fear.
Why is a post like this even on this site? Slide slide slide let it slide
Because it is the Great Awakening. If you don't like it, keep scrolling.
Exactly. What is this post even doing on here. I know why, because this place has been infested by a particular type of belief system which isn't the great awakening at all in the echo chamber Lol. And no I won't keep scrolling thanks. If you don't like it don't reply.
If the mods don't like my post, they can take it down. Until then, I have the right to post anything that doesn't violate the community rules.
I hope they do but they wont. This place has been invaded by this kind pf rubbish for awhile now.You sure do have that right and I have a right to ask what this rubbish is doing here. I mean there are like 20 other wins and Facebook you could go muddy up with this kind of nonsense.
That is your opinion.
Everything is an opinion. But nothing on the rules of this site says post about demons and your opinions on the subject you attempt to sling as facts. In fact it does say keep topics Q related. You miss that part? Rubbish like this needs to be removed. But like I said this site was taken over by rubbish like this quite along time ago. Now the intellectual and good researchers and post are all gone mostly. And this place is a X/Twitter and Facebook adjacent level garbage.
Q specifically mentions the demonic Lol. You're just trying to undermine everything I say and you're bad at it lol. How about you become a moderator so that you can be in the morality police? I can still back up everything I've said with scripture, but I don't think you can. You're trying to shift the argument to whatever you want it to be, and not what the argument is really about, and apparently you have a problem with us talking about demons, which influence everything the great awakening is fighting against. My original post was about not knowing how catholics drive out demons and not protestants, and I got to learn something. Maybe you should open your eyes and actually learn something. You're not helping keep this community awesome
Not sure about demons but they seem to be the only ones that can molest children anywhere in the world and still walk free with zero consequences.
Never thought about it that way, interesting