I’m not religious but I’m a massive Trump and Q follower. I see lots Christians on the board, any other atheists around here?
How do you view the religious factor in the Q movement?
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That's one of the misunderstandings right there, you said you're not religious. I am a Christian and I am not religious either. This often confuses people, but the simple answer is Jesus was probably the most anti-religious person who ever lived. So much so, they killed him for it.
Religion is mans attempt to reconcile himself to God. Jesus refutes this by stating HE is the ONLY way to God.
If you are truly anti-religion then Jesus and his teachings may shock you. He took a stand against every religious tradition of his day. This is what Jesus had to say about the religious leaders of his day ...
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" Wonder why they plotted to kill him?
Jesus further states ..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Lord Lord? So they are obviously religious people who are calling him Lord. Yet Jesus says they won't get into heaven? Anyway don't mean to jump on into an Atheist post, but you know us Christians, always got to beat someone over the head with a Bible when we get the chance :P
Nice post. Wavering agnostic here (I don't like the word as it implies a lack of knowledge, but it's the best available and does describe some aspects). I enjoyed reading this- I've been learning a lot recently. I was never raised with faith at all and in fact would be ashamed to admit I wouldn't entertain the idea.
This changes with time and the more I learn about the world in general the more I can reconcile with the reasons religion (and particularly its lessons / laws) exists. It matters less to me the peoples involved than the message- the message was always the important part and people have tried to destroy it- all through history. That's what peaked my interest- I wanted to know why.
I'm gradually opening to the fact that something might have happened to me- the scripture people here quote that I used to skip over unread now holds my attention. I feel like I understand it when somebody uses it in context and explains it. I am slowly admitting to myself that there is something worth pursuing- in which capacity I'm still unsure. I'll stick with the historical / scientific interest for now, but my mind is very open to all things and will remain so.
Thanks fren. I'll continue for the moment on my slow path- I will pick up the Bible in its entirety at some point, not quite ready yet. It's been quite the climbdown from a previous life where I would have said regretfully unflattering things about faith. That kind of turnabout is quite a mental shock- still processing much of this as it is very unfamiliar. I'm gaining a slow enthusiasm for this, but it needs to be through a process of osmosis for me- a slow and less conscious absorbing works best for me to break down gradually the walls I have built (I am afraid they are/were considerable).
The hard part for me was to realize there is a God, and a Savior in Jesus Christ... but that doesn't always equate to what "religions" say and do. If you think of it from a perspective of the relationship you have with God, in your own mind and your life apart from other humans, you will see there is a God that is infallible, but humans create this fallible mentality because we will always try to relate to God as if he was human.
Once I was able to separate religion from a direct relationship with Christ, it felt as if that veil was lifted, I could see through the bs of pastors trying to build themselves up and churches making rules and laws and traditions that go against what the Holy Bible says.
I hope you get there! Good luck in your journey! Just always be honest with yourself and the true God will show Himself to you.
Thanks fren, appreciate your kindness.
Fren, all you have to do is to earnestly reach out. The Almighty does not turn away true seekers. It is baby steps and He is patient with those that are genuine. But, the catch is, you must go where He takes you. When man wants to run the show and do what is right in their own eyes, the Almighty will allow them to have their way - the way of religion. True faith is a relationship - He already knows us but we need to get to know Him. He speaks in a still small voice that will not yell over the noise of our own self dialog and that of others. Quiet yourself and listen for him to speak. Part of that relationship is getting to recognize His voice. I can only speak for myselfb but this journey of relationship has been life changing and precious. I pray you find the same.
God is good. I'm glad you are still here.
There were two different points in my response. I'm glad they are still with us is different than God is good. I understand the points you are trying to make because I too spent a lot of time questioning everything I had been taught about christianity and religion in general.
I was very close to commiting suicide (within minutes) about 10 years ago. I cried and prayed for God to help me and felt immediate peace and comfort come over me which I still have to this day. It's hard to explain but there is no way It wasn't a miracle. I was fucked up and then I wasn't. I pray now everyday and feel a deep personal relationship with God.
When I replied to Bernieisacuck, it's because I know what he or she is talking about.
Everyone has their own journey. There were many years that I thought God was not listening or that God was not real. I understand why you question it.
How do you know God saved you, and that you didn't recover naturally? What about the 1,000s of other people also on their deathbeds who don't make it, despite also calling for his salvation, equally vocally? Is God still good despite letting those people die?
Sounds like He has been trying to get your attention for some time. Glad you finally listened. He must have some big things for you to do.
Sometimes it take a brush with our own mortality to realize that there is something much larger than ourselves and the world we have made for ourselves. Welcome to the family my fren. God bless you.
I will politely recommend this very approachable and intellectual series of doodles that illustrates one of CS Lewis’ books:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9boiLqIabFhrqabptq3ThGdwNanr65xU
God bless :)
what's wrong with admitting you don't know?
I do admit I do not know. One cannot 'know'. I believe the idea is faith, nothing is wrong with not knowing- in fact, if someone claimed absolute knowledge of this I would react with immediate suspicion.
then why reject the term agnostic? those who claim agnosticism generally aren't those who claim to have faith as well. those who have faith have it for a reason. you dont know how you will be provided for, but you know that you will be,'. so faith is not agnosticism, but rather knowledge. agnostics are still wondering whether they can trust the universe. agnostic faith is saying "oh well, whatever, couldn't be much worse, might as well continue" and that is not faith.
source: have identified with every end of the spectrum, from angry atheist to agnostic to angry theist.
Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
My issue is with nomenclature, not knowledge. It is that word implies that this is not and cannot be known- I reject that notion because 'gnosis' is the general foundation on which I build the rest of my life- that is why I cannot commit fully to the idea of purely faith. I come at this from an evidentiary standpoint and am in the process of accumulating enough evidence to make an informed decision to justify a faith (faith with eyes, not blind faith).
This does not make one without knowledge, nor does it give one a platform with which to make a judgement in full. Applying label words that don't fully sum up a persons state of mind (for me at least) is to be discouraged. Can I not reject agnosticism, atheism and anger and work on faith independently of these destructive titles?
sure! but not having enough evidence is just another way of saying you don't know yet. the jury is still out. from where you are, the state of not knowing seems limitless. but no one remains agnostic forever.
"work on faith" Faith is not something you have to practice having. You are ALWAYS placing your trust in something. The question is what you are placing your trust in. Just a thought :)
I trust just about nothing I'm afraid. Past experience.
Faith / knowledge are certainly not incompatible, but they are very different. Agnosticism, if I applied the label to myself would mean remaining there endlessly. I'm unprepared to enter a state of not knowing (although I am currently in that state I don't deem it absolute), when knowledge (gnosis) could still be gained without the use of faith (which to me currently is suspense of disbelief), which would be my preferred route. I'm inclined to think that He might not mind this stance if He created it all in the first place. To study this and find it based in fact would remove my need to trust (as this is an issue).
Thats more an ignostic definition than agnostic fren ?
Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless because the word "God" has no coherent and unambiguous definition.
Again, for me it is more fluid. I am trying to avoid labels, not find different ones.
I did just learn a new word though!
It's best to not be angry about it, regardless of where you end up. I've found a great deal more peace in accepting that there isn't anything pulling the strings of the universe than I ever did believing that there was someone behind it all, for good or ill.
Faith is stepping out and putting action to circumstances based upon the confidence that even though I do not have all the answers I know that someone greater than myself has my back and is guiding my steps. Faith is not having all the answers, but at the same time, being okay with that fact and still moving forward. This is the walk of faith. Those who do not experience this journey for themselves have no measure to compare it with and therefore cannot understand it. I pray you find it.
I have a lot more respect for agnostics than athiests. When you look into the difference between the two it becomes apparent that athiesm is itself a belief system, namely that no higher power exists, a hypothesis that cannot be proven to be true, not on a definitive nor a personal level.
Agnostics aren’t contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, and I find it hard to take issue with someone who just says “I don’t know”. Because you guys are at least open to the possibilities. It’s a very scientific mindset, and that attitude is good for a multitude of practical purposes.
And while it can be nice to not risk being wrong, I think it takes a certain kind of courage to say that you’re willing to “know” something that you’re not able to definitively prove to other people. But we’re all capable of it. Not gonna pester you about it, just gonna say that I highly recommend giving it a(nother?) shot. Maybe while you’re reading, like you mentioned you would in the other comment, try to keep a mental ear open, see if anything jumps out at you.
If you want proof, you’ll be able to find it for yourself. “How many coincidences before mathematically impossible?”
Exactly. I'm late to the party with much of this, but treat it all with the same scientific method (avoiding mainstream 'psy-ence' helps) and am gradually piecing it all together- Qincidences are building all over... It does help with people being gentle with it- everybody here has been quietly encouraging without force. It's nice, encourages people to find out for themselves. The scientific stuff is really helpful to me- I love to hear of the early discoveries (that we are allowed to see after censorship), it brings religious history to life.
Atheism isn't a belief system, it's the lack of belief in God or a higher power. It's the absence of belief.
I think most people who label themselves as atheists are really agnostics though. If somehow actual evidence of God was found, most "atheists" would switch to the other side and become believers, only real hardcore atheists would continue to deny the evidence in front of them.
Everyone has a belief system. It is hardwired within us. It is just that not everyone puts their faith in the same thing. Some believe in humanity, some science, some in God. Without faith in something, whether it is in our own efforts, efforts by someone else, or in God, we would be frozen to inaction. Everyone has a god to believe in - it is just that everyone defines that god differently. Therefore, Atheism is a belief system - it is just not a belief in God.
This has been a great thread. Thanks.
Same here. I was raised Catholic but over the last 25 years have moved away from participating any organized worship and instead pray and read the Bible to find my own peace with God. Feels more authentic to have a persional conversation any time, not just Sunday.
I was raised Mormon and have done the same thing.
Exactly! I am a Christian but I am not religious either. I do practice at a church for social reasons and to administer to others.
But I understand
It is NOT about religion. Religion is man made.
It is about a relationship with Him. ONLY.
Christianity is a religion. You're fooling yourself with your, canned response, word-salad.
From the outside looking in, you engage in rituals, unverifiable beliefs and center your life around said beliefs. Sure you can call it a relationship and/or a lifestyle but it's most definitely a religion and when it's called one, it's done so accurately.
Unverifiable? Can Christianity be falsified- Yes! If you could find solid evidence against three beliefs:
You would have a solid case. As it is, you have the burden of proof, historically, to prove us wrong. An author (Such as Luke) is to be given the benefit of the doubt unless he was self- contradictory.
Luke claims, in both his gospel and the acts of the apostles, to be the writer. Early written church history also verifies the claim that Luke himself is indeed the writer of both accounts. Luke, more than any other of the gospel writers, should be viewed in terms as a historian because, by his own words, this is what he set out to do - to give an account of the events surrounding the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus as well as the events that followed his ministry in the lives of the apostolic believers. He was commissioned by Theophilos to write this history. The gospel of Luke is written in a more refined Greek than the other gospels or even Paul's writings. Luke was a learned man.
John was written by one of his disciples and was written much later in the first century than the synoptic gospels. It was not uncommon to dictate to a scribe that had a better command of Greek than the Apostles whose first language was Aramaic and Hebrew. Peter's account was written by his disciple Mark and was more than likely the first of the gospels. There are also several Jewish prayers in Hebrew still recited today that are attributed to Peter. They claim that Peter was tricked into becoming a Christian. Peter is recorded to have been a very well respected writer of Jewish poems and prayers in the first century Jewish community. The gospel of Matthew was written in part in Hebrew by Matthew for the Jewish believers that he was leaving behind in Jerusalem when he left. That Hebrew version later had portions added to it from Mark that became the Greek gospel of Luke.
There is much history by early church historians to give us a reasonable certainty that the gospels passed down to us are an accurate recording of the events. Any arguments given by naysayers as to the validity of these writings do not hold water upon closer examination.
The Jewish world of the apostles was one that passed down history through an oral culture. The Apostles themselves saw no need to write anything down, but passed the teachings of Jesus on by that same oral tradition. That culture was very careful to make sure that the transmission of history was accurate. They did not deviate from what was passed down to them by omission or by addition - something that is not understood well by the West. By the middle of the first century however, when Greco-Roman influence pressed into that world of oral tradition, and the body of believers expanded to all parts of the empire, the need to have the history written down became more of a necessity. This is why we have no records contemporary to the actual time of the events. But, this in no way makes what was written down only a couple of decades later less credible because the oral tradition that the information was derived from was reliable.
But like I've said in other parts of this thread. I don't really concern myself with the evidence stuff... To me, the deity of the bible isn't good nor loving and not someone I could align myself with.
Yes, and there's very good reason to believe it was later placed in those writings to lend credibility to the bible story. Look it up, it's out there...
Who you gonna believe... You better make the right choice. God doesn't allow the wrong one. Queue Jeopardy music while he heats up the oven.
This is like saying: "Outside of your eyewitnesses you have no eyewitnesses!"
Sharp logic.
Whether you think it's sharp or not is irrelevant... Your bible isn't a historical document. It's a religious text that tries to get passed down as a history book. Sure, it's been around a long time (as have many other ancient texts) but its claims about extraordinary events of the past are unable to be objectively verified.
Explain that to all the Archeologists who use it to guide their historical digs.
Me thinks you are saying/proving too much here. Because by that logic, NOTHING in the past is verifiable - including the extraordinary claims of Darwinian evolution.
By the way, the Resurrection of the Christ is entirely falsifiable. It is an event that took place within history. But you must use historical methods to disprove it, and shouldn't presuppose the non existence of a God who can act from within that history.
There is more historical/bibliographic evidence for the NT than any other document or writing from early Antiquity. Facts.
Also, it would've been VERY easy for the early Christianity movement to be squashed by the authorities (Roman and Jewish) that didn't want it around - provide the body! Go get the body of Jesus and parade it around town in front of all the crazy disciples preaching a resurrected Jesus. The Romans placed a seal on the tomb and place guards in front of it - punishable by death if anything happened to the tomb. They did this for fear that the disciples would steal the body. But they didn't/couldn't do it.
He rose from the dead and walked among us.
Romans 1:18-32
You think the past is verifiable? Who writes the history books? What is this website about? What are fighting? A massive illusion and control mechansim most people don't even know exists.... Right?
And yet you believe truth is some easily, equally accessible object we all can look at the "proofs" in the same way? We don't even know WTF is going on in Antartica. We can't even verify that NOW. But I'm to believe extraordinary claims that lack extraordinary evidence from thousands of years ago?
That religious book written by old dudes that never met Jesus... They're not to be questioned. Their motives aren't to be questioned. We just need to roll over and believe them? Our souls (no evidence of souls) depend on it. The case that a soul exists has never been made. The bible just treats it like it's a simple, easy to swallow assumption. Uhh, if you're gonna tell me about where my soul goes after my body dies... You're gonna need to make a case that souls exist and use supporting evidence instead of just conveniently glossing over it because it's problematic for you.
Anyways,
Go watch the video of Tucker Carlson handing Bill Nye his ass about climate change. Then read the comments... There are people out there that believe Tucker lost that debate.
Perspective is everything.
Oof. why does Q seem to trust God then? Why do you trust Q? Does Q operate without evidence?
We don't know who Q is. I know a lot of people that are both intelligent and religious.
Nobody's right about everything all the time.
I don't claim to know either. I do know that Q trusts God and Scripture as legitimate. In case you missed the first comment Christ follower does not equal religious. Christ came and declared religion obsolete through His sacrifice. Could you also be limiting your perspective in your own judgements about existential reality? Christ made the human relationship with God about loving The Creator and His creation as yourself. Imperfections are forgiven and the only thing expected is an open hand to relieve grace.
I recommend Soren Kierkegaard as a good starting place to help you understand my perspective. Humans have an infinite reality we must wrestle with to avoid existential angst and dread. Jesus makes that reality both easy and hard. Easy because you do nothing, Christ chose to save you. Hard because now that you are free to act how you wish, He asks you to choose love and pay forward Jesus' propitiation every day.
You can misrepresent what he said as you please. There is a clear difference between organized religion and personal beleif/habit.
Religion implies organized and social.
Your post is just so angsty it's laughable.
Likewise, if I am a child who was just born, I cant even comprehend the concept of Jesus. If I die coming out the womb because my mom wants a late term abortion, and I didnt repent to jesus, am I damned? I hate to dog on your religion like it is a centuries old psyop to control you, but all signs point to yes.
No, infants would not go to hell because they have not reached the age of accountability. They can't understand right from wrong yet.
https://www.gotquestions.org/age-of-accountability.html
There are no signs that point to yes. Repenting involves knowledge that you have wronged someone, sorrow for having done so, apologizing for having hurt someone, and resolving not to do it again. This is beyond the capacity of a pre-born to understand.
Jesus said: "Let the little children come to me and forbid them not, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."
Wikipedia has the whole list, (I'm not the biggest WP fan, but this should give you more than enough to chew on) And here is just one:
**At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 18:1–10)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_of_Jesus_about_little_children
As to 'religion being a psyop' I agree! Any attempt to gain Heaven by our own effort is a very cunningly crafted psyop to steer people away from the truth: A relationship with your creator is Heaven itself. As far as Jesus is concerned, there is plenty of evidence for both his existence and the validity of his claims. Honest seekers of truth have always been welcomed by Him.
Okay so once I reach the age of accountability I still have to know Jesus and repent in his name? So even if i keep to my own moral code of accountability that is identical to that of Jesus, but I do not repent, am I still damned? Because I did not kneel and swear fealty and praise Jesus? I do not show praise to anyone who doesnt appreciate the time I take out of my day to seek them enough to show themself to me. Ya dig? If God or Jesus, or whoever doesnt hear that plea enough to show themself to me, far be it for me to dedicate my life to them. Lately the only signs that God exists are the signs that the Devil exists. Id like to think that if God was so much more powerful he could show himself to me. Am I taunting God now? I'm such a blasphemer! I guess he did create me in his image. Like when he made that bet with the devil and destroyed a man's life to prove himself right (story of Job)
Once you get beyond the cognitive biases that come about because you fear the unkown, you can see religion for what it is. is precisely the mentality that unless you come to the lord and repent to him, or through jesus, or allah ackbar, or whoever that justified the actions of the crusades and allowed Judeo-christian philosophy to very brutally conquer the world. Again. Its a very well played, thousands of years old psyop that has been perverted many times to appropriate other religions, i,e Christmas. Which is actually a Pagan holiday that was incorporated into Christianity to blur the lines over a couple generations to expand the influence of the vatican . Because for the people at the top it never was about congruency, or keeping with the original story, it was about expanding their base of power, and they did it well. Like I said, if God wants to come to me ill be happy when he does, but as far as im concerned he needs to meet me in the middle, and not make demands on which way I come to him. If he loves me and asks so much of me, I feel it is only fair to ask that of him. Edit, this comment also replied to another user, Inthough both comments were from the same person. Aorry for any confusion
Man I have been where you are. The reality is you don't know where one phsyop ends and another begins. In my veiw you pushing a 200 year old anti-relgion phsyop that leverages about 2000 years of authoritarian power plays layered on top of religious beleif. The net result is you are pointing out the evil of the powerful as the only example of what the meaning of Jesus is. There is a fallacy built into this. One thing does not share its meaning or interpretation uniformly across a group. Ie christ means different things to different people.
I don't care what organized religion has to say, never have, never will. But instead I have found real psychological utility in the archetype of the most good person who could exist, who was tortured and killed in proportion to how good he was. That is so patently true in so many areas of life, that we are punished for our virtues by the world around us, that it has become a daily reminder to recenter myself, "I am not that good, and I am not suffering that bad".
Be angry at religion, be angry at authority, but open up your mind.
I can recomend this lecture series that makes a rational case for the psychological utility of the Bible. It might help you sort out the phsy op from the ancestral wisdom.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I3lUrrFTzkpat
I knew before i clicked on it you were going to link me to Jordan Peterson. Hell you write like he speaks!! Ill give him a listen, maybe someone like him can explain some of the fallacies that I find in Christianity
Best of luck with it! His approach is more about figuring out what is true in the stories rather than extracting out fallacies. But from understanding the truth, the fallacies are easier to pick out and seem almost mundane by comparison.i would also consider his "maps of meanings" lectures which covers similar psychological topics but focus on the rise of comunism as an artifact of shared psychology driven by archetypal shifts in our shared narratives. It's uses more secular subject matter to lay the groundwork for story as artifact of psychological truth (or propaganda depending on the work). I wish you the best in your journey!
Well said, my friend. An open mind and heart are among my greatest virtues to maintain. Within those virtues I find creedence to all forms in which "Christ" manifests himself. I try not to be angry because we are all in different places along our own spiritual path and if there is a higher power this is what they intended. Presumably whatever you are experiencing is what you need to grow into the next plane of existence, and no matter what you believe; I wish you well along that path
If you kept a code that is identical to Jesus' code of ethics, perfectly, then we would look to you to lead us, and you would have no need of a savior. Jesus Himself said, "Those who sick need a physician." Jesus also said:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
The will of the Father is explicitly explained in the two greatest commandments, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Crusades were not loving.
You missed the point entirely and went off on a total tangent. According to Jesus, to procreate is to sin, so its really no surprise that nobody could put themselves on that level, its literally impossible. So ill ask this instead: Do people on islands in the middle of the ocean who have never had contact with any other humans have to worry because they never repented in Jesus name? Better go save them and teach them about Jesus!! This is how the crusades came about, fren. If I cannot read the Bible and someone has lead me astray to praise Satan because I trusted them and didn't know any better, do I still have a place in heaven? That being said; how do you know Jesus is the right savior to worship? How do you know you have not been lead astray?
Religion isnt something we come equipped to seek, it is only our fellow humans who guide us to it in my experience. Once I have something click that didnt come to me from the mouth or written word of another human, a pure spiritual experience that leads ne to "Christ" ill be open to it. Supposedly the Bible is full of accounts of those experiences so Ill wait patiently for mine. Maybe God has just been busy and he will get to me in due time. But I refuse to swear fealty out of fear, that has lead far too many down the wrong path.
Jesus never said "To procreate is a sin." He did say not everyone is 'called to be married', yet he accepted Peter as a disciple, and even healed his mother in law.
If you have never had any contact with other humans, you have no worries. God is gracious, when those who live by the light they have face God, they will not be judged on the basis of knowing Jesus' name, but will be justified on the basis of their choice to live by the light they have or not.
Those of us who know Jesus should tell others about Him, but as Paul says, we are to do it in gentleness and respect. Jesus himself rebuked his disciples when they wanted to call down fire on a city that would not admit them. This is a far cry from how the Crusades operated. (Jesus said "Fear not!" more often than he said almost anything else)
I agree, God wants you to come to Him because you recognize that he loves you, and will run to you. (NOT because you fear hell.) That is what the story of the Prodigal Son is all about.
I think I read an article mentioning how atheists individually fit better with Christians than with random atheists (who might be commies), Muslims or Jews.
I'm an atheist and I fucking despite most other atheists. I'd rather live among Christians any time any where.
Thanks Fren that’s encouraging. I have nothing against religion and I recognize the huge influence Christianity had on European culture. I’m a history buff and realize the incredible binding factor religion has in society. It’s just that I never attended any Mass or church service growing up.
Appreciate the kind reply.
Just wanted to say that I love your honesty. As a Christian raised in a church, sometimes I’m ashamed when I go through phases of incredible questioning and doubt. As I get older I realize now that it’s normal and healthy and intelligent to question. That’s why I respect your decision because I completely understand your choice.
One thing that has changed my life recently is watching The Chosen (free to watch on The Chosen app). It’s a realistic depiction of life during the time Jesus chose his disciples a d what it was like for then. It’s really brought them to life for me. It may not change your mind but you might enjoy the show itself. It’s not preachy, it’s an intelligent and well written and researched drama. And it shows me the humanity of Jesus and makes Him real to me again.
Take care fren and hope you feel safe here still.
The Chosen is excellent! That's what really started my having a serious relationship with God. Also have been listening to the Bible on audio while at work (currently in Leviticus) and am learning more daily. I'm almost embarrassed to say it but the 5hr video expose on Freemasonry that has been going around on here really opened my eyes. His testimony at the end helped me to finally let Jesus fully into my heart. I highly recommend the whole video (eye - opening) but, if you can't get through 5 hours, at least check out the last 30 minutes or so. I think it may be available on YouTube as well if Rumble is too slow. https://rumble.com/vgg9td-mirrored-altijan-juric-exposes-freemasonry.html
Appreciate the replies. I’m not a native English speaker so I looked it up and I should have written ‘agnostic’ instead of atheist.
I didn’t grow up in any organized religion but I’m looking in to Christianity. Thanks again for the kind replies.
Raised Mormon. No longer Mormon. Practice Chaos Magick now. Still follow Q. Still believe in God.
If you follow Q, you might at least be Agnostic. Godless people don’t follow Q, they OMG all over Reddit and Twatter, dye their hair blue, empty the fridge and saltily cry whilst stroking their flaccid woperson’s dick.
Fair point, agnostic is probably a better term. I really don’t know anything for certain. The thing is that in the Netherlands where I grew up, almost nobody went to Church or attended any religious services.
Atheism isn't the declaritive statement that there is no god. It's the perspective that we don't believe there is a god. Any honest atheist (like myself) will tell you they could be wrong.
It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist
And not believing anything doesn't take faith.
I really am not concerned with where we came from or how we got here... We're here now, that's enough for me.
Some people find it hard to believe that there are those like me who really don't care where we came from or where we're going after the lights go off. It's not really anything I feel I need to know. It really isn't. What's in front of me, right now (observable life), is complex enough without some kind of supernatural implications that we can't verify are true. I don't have the time, nor the desire to concern myself with things I can't prove. I'd rather shoot my bow. If there's a god out there who thinks we all should be concerned about him, well, he's wrong. I have a life to live.
Ok
So you're saying faith can be used to believe in things that aren't true?
Woudln't that then expose faith as unreliable? And yet Christians use it as a means to define the truth?
Sounds like a good way to be mislead; having faith in a thing doesn't make that thing true because people can have faith in things that aren't true.
So when it comes to faith, I don't really find it virtuous and I'm not really compatible with the idea of it.
I used to be an atheist. I get it. I’m saying that we all have to have faith in something. You have faith that your teachers and history books are accurate, none of us were actually present to witness the formation of the earth, or many other things, we rely on what we’re told and choose to believe.
And their interpretations of said events. The same men that believe the world was flooded and 2 of every animal made it to an ark which means, contrary to common knowledge Koalas and Kangaroos are excellent swimmers.
So, if you want me to endorse a book that clearly has problematic concepts and center my life around it, pay money to it, preach to others about it... It's gotta first have stories that aren't easily debunked and a god who's looking out for humanity instead of scattering them and confusing them because they build a building he thought might reach him... I guess he doesn't feel the same about NASA and a space station....???
There are many, many reasons I can't take it seriously but I hope that I'm still among friends and that our opinions about these things don't interfere with our collective drive to Keep America Great and protect a free way of life.
You pretend that the country you enjoy so much is not built on the conceptualization of the individual as set out by the person Jesus recorded in the Bible. The Judeo-christian concept of the individual and state relationship corrected by the reformation is essential to the intentions of the founding fathers.
Two of every kind. Not every animal. The Tower of Babel was built in rebellion against God.
Do you know this for certain?
Truth is undeniable. One must affirm truth in order to deny it.
Not necessarily, to follow Q really only requires logic and critical thinking. Most Q drops don't even mention God.
It’s Faith that drives us further inwards…
So how do you dismiss the posts...that not only mention God, but ask us to pray and also quote Ephesians, to put on the whole armour of Go’s, which is to oray, read scripture, know the word of God..etc?
Disinformation is necessary?
Godless and a Q follower here... AKA an atheist.
Yeah, no.
Bruh I'd be emptying the fridge no matter what I believed, that's just a good time.
I think an important distinction is the difference between atheism and anti-theism. Atheism, at its definition, is “without religion” and isn’t meant to be the snarky Reddit bullshit of nitpicking religious people’s ways. Most online atheists are actually anti-theists, meaning they just want to badmouth religion and view it as beneath them.
From the sound of it, you don’t seem like the second type. I actually started off reading about all this as a pretty rocksolid atheist for almost 25 years of my life. But. I have to say, looking more and more into this I felt a turn to faith. Not in the organized sect, mind you…just getting to think that this fight is ultimately good vs evil. And trusting that good will win has gotten much easier for me. I thank this site, fellow patriots, and God for that.
Feels wild to say.
That's not true... Atheists don't believe there is a god.
As an atheist, I get really tired of the mislabeling and the misunderstanding of the position. It's essentially a lack of belief. It's not the statement that there is no god, it's a belief that there isn't.
This is the "New" Atheism's definition. After Anthony Flew (the last of the true intellectual atheists), they had to redefine their position because defending a negative is too hard to do.
How could anyone state anything absolute about things that are unprovable? This is why it's a belief. We're talking about things we can't measure, observe and repeat. It's all within the realm of speculation.
Depends by what one means by "absolute" and "unprovable." There are many things that are unprovable in the mathematical sense (or even in the scientific sense) that you still believe to be true. For example, that Love exists. Or Beauty. Or Justice. Or Truth.
It's more of a preponderance of the evidence. The evidence, when taken collectively, points to a supreme Being that is extremely powerful, extremely intelligent, non-physical, and eternal. Getting awfully close to the Judeo-Christian description of who God is.
That may be your interpretation of things, but it's not mine.
You have to understand that I can, just like you, only sign off on things that make sense to me. Belief is then a product of many things other than desire or will to believe. Complicating things further, the god of the bible seems to judge people based on their beliefs... When clearly, beliefs are not ours entirely... There's many reasons people believe what they do and desire to believe what they do isn't even a thought. Peolple believe many things simply because their parents did, or because of social pressures for that time and era... We're products and we're more or less in the passenger seat while simultaneously thinking we're in the driver seat. And yet, the bible god wants to judge people based on their beliefs about him... which they may have had very little to even do with.
Rape, murder, torture, genocide, theft, lies etc... All forgivable... But gasp not believe in him? His ego just can't handle that. You get the eternal smoking section. It simply just too unforgivable...
Religion is too much an emotional issue... I see it here already... People popping off on me simply because I see things differently than they do. It's divisive as fuck and I just want everyone to get along despite what we think/believe about where we came from or where we go from here...
It's asking too much.
No ones popping off on you, bud. Just a healthy exchange if ideas.
That's incorrect. Atheism is the belief there is no God. Not the position that there isn't.
I don't believe there is a god. <----Atheism
That's different than...
There is no god.
a·the·ism /ˈāTHēˌizəm/
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
This is a classic attempt to redefine the historical meaning of Atheisms to hold the more tenable (soft?) position of "Lack" of Belief.
A = Greek for "No" Theism = Greek for "God"
This is known as the "New" Atheism. A redefined version of historical Atheism
Whatever it is is what I am. I don't believe in God but don't make the statement there isn't one. I'm not convinced by ancient texts written by dudes that didn't know where the sun went at night.
The universe is vast and beyond anything we can imagine. It could have a god out there somewhere but it could also have space breathing sharks with lasers mounted on their heads.
But when it comes to the bible, it's not even an original story.... Jesus wasn't the first virgin birth nor was he the first one crucified and rose from the dead. To me, it's not convincing and that god isn't worthy of my endorsement.
Jedi handwave. Just because they didn't understand modern cosmology doesn't mean they couldn't speak the truth. Nothing in the Ancient biblical text contradicts modern science anyway, so this is really a moot point and designed to smear the authors of the OT.
Yeah, okay, Dr Evil.
The assertion that the NT was copied from earlier Egyptian/Babylonian/Zoroastrian myths has been debunked thoroughly.
ALL of the manuscripts that we are in possession of regarding those ancient myths POSTdate the New Testament documents. Which means, they most likely copied from the NT writers. Mainly because Christianity (at the time) was THE most popular and fastest growing religion. These flailing religions, most likely, wanted wanted a piece of the action, so they anachronistically wrote the Christian themes into their own narratives.
I was an atheist / agnostic all my life. Now I believe in spirituality and God. I believe ancient religions were fight against Satanic evil.
I have been reading bible and I believe it was written to record some historic events, even though fully deciphering it might be very difficult.
Happy to discuss more if you have specific questions to ask
My only problem with Atheists is when they act superior like their lack of religious instinct won them an IQ test.
You mean like all those elites who are confronted by us beating them at their own data?
Its ok fren, you dont have to be a Christian to follow Q. It is a big part of the GA though.... God Wins ?
did you see what the freemasons say about atheist?
Yeah, they hate atheists almost as much as they hate christians.
no, they think atheist are fucking stupid people, freemasons are satanic assholes when you get to the top.
Fuck Freemasons.
I have met many so called atheists and if I may say they are hated just as much as believers....Why you ask? Well because if you don't believe in heaven you don't believe in hell! The devil wants us all and atheists are the most unattainable and present the biggest challenge.
Many that follow Q end up finding faith....
Blessings fren...
Awesome discussion in this thread!
Isn't this the mark of a free thinker? I think a lot of us avoid labels and assigning ourselves to "clubs" because it has a way of shutting off other points of view.
Personally, I dont know what I am. I have always lived what I believe to be a just life and have a natural empathy for other people. I feel put off by the nature of Christianity in how it assumes people are hopelessly broken and need Jesus to fix them. There is a higher power, whatever form it may take, and it made you, me, and everyone else on this board with a specific purpose. I argue with my Christian wife from time to time because she believes that whatever the preacher says is 100% law, and I argue that as a dangerous way of thinking.
It seems to me God made most of us with a natural desire to question the official narrative, and there is likely a good reason for that.
It doesn't assume that people are broken. It observes people being broken all on their own. None are righteous. no not one. For we have all fallen short of the Glory of God [perfection]..."
One sin, just one...breaks us. We are slaves to sin. Jesus lived the sinless life. God raised him from the dead to show his victory over sin.
Is to know thyself not the first thing we postpone?
Atheist here as well.
Glad you're here. :)
I posted in another thread that I'm an non-believer but woudl gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with Christian patriots to defend this great country in whatever capacity necessary. Genuine Christians are great people and I can generally be friends with anyone regardless of what they think about life, death and a potential after-life.
Thank you for being a mod!
I lack belief that you are a mod
kek
...and thank you for your godlike mod abilities. I mean that this time!
It's inescapable. The more you research any advanced science or any sort of art or philosophy, it's impossible to run away from the idea it's not all an accident.
Part of Q is questioning, then seeing past the face value as a result of coming to your own conclusions. The Q drops are in many ways prompts to question your own beliefs
Research the truth the way you research Q. Eventually you'll find there is no way to explain any of it other than Almighty God.
We're talking via mobile devices across the internet..all powered by circuit boards essentialy made of sand and minerals. It's a miracle..real life magic given to us by something greater than ourselves
How precious are your thoughts about me, O God. They cannot be numbered! I can’t even count them; they outnumber the grains of sand! And when I wake up, you are still with me, Psalm 139:17-18.
But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.
Luke 19:40
These grains of sand and rocks are all telling you something every time you tap the screen
I like your comparison!
I was a lifelong atheist until I came here. Now I feel something, I feel that "God" is a property of the universe around us, "He" knows what's going on and responds to good intentions.
There are too many coincidences going on. It should be absolutely impossible to unseat the cabal and prevent the great reset, but it isn't impossible, it's happening.
One poster here called me a "Mystic" because of this attitude, like she is. Maybe I'll put that on the next census!
Anyway, to me a fren is a fren no matter what religion or color. It's about the intention to support society and freedom and the intention not to dominate or destroy. You know em when you see em.
That's interesting. I'll keep that in mind. Maybe I'm a Christian mystic too.
Fellow atheist checking in.
I don't see anything inherently spiritual about a covert plan to give marxist scum an ass whooping. I'm here because reason and evidence led me here. Simple as that. However, I can understand why Christians in particular are drawn here. Christianity is one of the last bastions of universal ethics standing in the way of the moral relativism of Marxism.
Universal secular ethics comes to many of the same conclusions as Christianity anyway, just with a different methodology. Evil can exist without a religious context. Unfortunately most atheists are rabbid marxists who decided to replace god with the state.
Then that would make them de facto theists, are they not? Because they want one world government, worshiped as a god = monotheism with monoculture and monopeople.
You are raising a valid point where it concerns universal secular ethics, although I would not call it universal, as I have no knowledge of the rest of the species living in the vast universe and of their ethics. I would settle for global, though.
I do see something inherently spiritual.
I would say, how much coincidence do you need to consider something not a coincidence?
Although the calculations differ somewhat, we are moving from the Age of Pisces into Aquarius. Both ages differ from each other, with their own energies.
Consider out times.
We are faced with the real prospect of a one world government, run by the most psychopathic deviants ever. Truly, the 2%. And what is in store for us? Being hooked up into the IoT as the "internet of Bodies). A repressive artificial physical hive mind akin to The Borg from Start trek, where no connection to the soul exists.
(note the growing crystals towards the pineapple, after having undergone a PCR test, which is closely related to spirituality.
Being aware of your own soul, and the manifestation of love, joy and peace as a result, ( and for you Christians: please: read Galatians 5:22) is not a bad thing to have.
So, really opposite of the artificial superimposed soulless one world government marxists, we have the natural progression and evolution of consciousness in the comings hundreds of years. And spirituality is the path.
Or, in the words of Isaac Asimov, the first foundation was a physical clerical scientific system. The second foundation was opposite of that.
However, to usher in these changes, the artificial constructs have to go.
So, and then Q came on the scene and started talking about The GreatAwakening, the dirt, the conspiracies, but also about trusting ourselves, to think for ourselves, to trust each other, to unite, Would you say, what Q talks about is totally not within the time frame and the description of it?
Coincidence? I think not.
Great post, fren!
I was an athiest until I hit a brick wall with my self will run riot. When I figured out I couldn't even control my own life, I started looking. He found me. * * * Here was my final thought process:If I am less than a grain of sand in the cosmos, how could my puny intellect ever understand God? My brain is limited to the things of the earth, not every dimension or reality, therefore, i can't be God, I can't create any life outside of my womb even. How could I have ever believed i knew enough to even decide that? Besides, all people worshipped some God until the Cabal taught a whole bunch of people they were smarter than God and then they passed that down. Why? Because without God, they can become YOUR God's by your admiration. ANYTHING THE CABAL PROMOTES IS SHIT. PERIOD. THEY PROMOTED AND CREATED ATHIEISM. IT SUITS THEIR PURPOSES. RESEARCH IT, ATHIEST ARE THE CORE OF ALL THE MARXISTS USEFUL IDIOTS. * * God really does love you and he will bring you inner peace. It's not a giant lightening strike, just a slow and gentle knowing and calm. I became a Christian 5 years ago. I don't go to church. They suck and are incredibly corrupted. I have my own people I follow and I have people I learn under. All at home. My life is 1000% better since I found God and emotionally I am happy beyond measure. My only problem in life is the cabal.
Does Satan exist?
Does the THOUGHT
of Satan exist?
Well Satan KNOWS that God exists.
And so does the Deep State.
Either way you or I believe
There is clearly a world wide cabal which does indeed believe Satan is real
And they work everyday to foresee his perceived wishes in this realm come to fruition.
It’s going to be Biblical
Hey BP, like you I was atheist/agnostic but after being fully red pilled, it is very hard not to believe. Charlie Freak ( Freaksense TV ) has a very compelling view on not just spiritual themes, but diet advice that can help you live much,much longer. ( you can’t see me, but I am nodding with an eyebrow raised )
I believe in Christian values but don't/cant believe in a higher being
You just redefined yourself out of the Christian camp. If you don't affirm the main tenants of the Christian faith (Jesus is God in the flesh, Trinity, Resurrection etc...) then you are no longer believing in Historical Christianity, but something else.
Ok, bye
Lol
Haha
You are free to stay and interact with us. We will stand by you as Patriots.
I appreciate it
Same here, but Agnostic literally means "not knowing". I personally can't believe in things that have no proof, but also cannot rule them out either... so I am basically neutral about the whole issue... while pretty much following the Christian values anyway.
Agnostic then if it is in those terms
Really only two options.. we evolved or we were created.. spent an exorbitant amount of time when I was younger doing a “deep dive” on this because the uncertainty was driving me crazy, knowing It’s impossible for something to come from nothing.. In the process realized that what I’d been taught in school, although taught as science, contradicted itself at every level on every discipline. To the point where I realized what was being taught to me wasn’t just improbable but blatantly impossible.. I HATE BEING LIED TO !! I was angry but still needed an answer.. the more I looked into the other option the more I knew it was true.. and for reasons beyond the fact that it had to be..( referring back to my 1st point) I’m a believer and it’s brought me peace I could never have achieved without knowing !!!
Side note... being part of this site made me aware of another truth.. it’s given me clarity on WHY the school system was lying to me.. they do on most every important issue dealing with morality and social construct.. Teaching many untruths strengthens there twisted agenda.. how much more affective than to try to destroy the very foundation of it?
I used to consider myself an atheist, but now I would say I'm agnostic. Understanding the esoteric gnosticism that the kabbalists practice has really opened my eyes to spirituality, but that doesn't mean you have to be a Christian.
I was raised Christian. I never liked churced, could not understand the power structure. As a teen i became agnostic after following my inquisitive nature I discovered science needs a few miracles to jump start the process. Such as the big bang. See georges lemaitre https://duckduckgo.com/?q=georges+lemaitre&t=brave&ia=web.
Anyways the only thing i hate is evil.
Love you fren. I hope the light of the Lord shines upon you. Giving you sight in your darkest hours when in need.
Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
I'm more of an agnostic since atheism is a little too certain for me! I value the role of religion in society and realize that for many, it provides solice and hope in a fucked up world. Much like why I visit this board. Its often easier to chalk up things you dontnun see understand to a bigger plan. Q and religion are very similar indeed.
I'm agnostic
Spirituality and organized religion are usually two separate things.
Grew up in a heavy south baptist house and mother is still so. I believe in a higher power. Who or what that is I don’t know. I still go to church with my mom sometimes to make her happy but to also catch a sermon because I am just truly fascinated by all things in this world. I have always been a questioner. So obviously Q is attractive. I’m here to tell you and everyone that Q is everywhere. Where there are good people in this world..there is Q. A lot of Christians are good people so you will find them here just as you would any good person who just wants the truth...wants what’s truly right.
I can not say a god does not exist just as I can not say dark energy or the big bang or intelligent alien species dont exist. I am agnostic. I believe Christian values to be a good thing, and I was raised in a Catholic home. I will not argue the point of God/no God, as my views are my own. Great replies on here and great discussion. Everyone here need not agree on all things.
Christ = The Way, The Truth and the Life.
You just need to be on the path to be a Christian.
What is the path? The path of the Truthseeker. Meaning, you actively search for Truth (Christ) in ALL THINGS. And you align YOURSELF with TRUTH, not the other way around.
Meaning you seek the Truth (that which is the existent state of reality) and once you discover Truth you align yourself with it while turning your back on the lies you believed.
This sounds simple, but it is very tough. It means discarding all personal illusion/delusion and not entertaining another's illusion/delusion.
Q doesn’t seem to be an atheist. Q says God wins, that’s probably why people of faith are interested at first.
I believe in myself and others. That is all.