Precisely. A lot of people need to just be optimistic. Trump's work in his first term was miraculous, and now he's even more experienced with a better team.
This reminds me of a lesson I learned in political campaigning classes:
Do not waste too much time and effort courting the extremists, for their are small in number, have little funds nor resources that they can contribute to your cause, and nothing that you can do will reasonably satisfy them.
I have a feeling that the "some people" are hardcore anti-ALL-immigration extremists where they think American First means Americans ONLY, no immigration allowed.
However, if you listened to any of Trump's speeches and rallies, he is against ILLEGAL immigration. He is for legal immigration. That is nothing new. I am thinking that "some people" have gaslit themselves and others into thinking that what Trump really means by "American First" means "American ONLY".
One more thing: if Trump is against all immigration, then he wouldn't have selected Kash Patel, a son of legal Indian immigrants, to be a key member of his team as the head of FBI.
You think Americans standing up for American workers is extreme?
I have never seen such hatred tor American people as expressed by The supporters of HB1.
The main problem with this entire H1B situation is that despite both groups on this forum (and Trump) preferring the US only takes in an elite and select group of highly talented, specialized, and skilled foreigners (e.g. Wernher von Braun), one side is falsely accusing the other of instead wanting to mass-import low skill workers from the third world. It's simply not true, and Trump never said he would do this.
Obviously H1B is broken, and ideally is completely revoked (which can only be done with Congress), the next best thing that can be done is to limit it as much as possible and make it as much of a bureaucratic nightmare for regular non-talented foreigners.
There is another program for the von Bruan
levels.
Hb1 is destructive to American workers and wages.
Americans have been lied on and defamed for decades.
Americans are tired of eating crumbs
Its a tough pill to swallow but Americans are really not the super competent and willing workers that many on the .WINs have recently started to believe. I'm sure there are many Americans unfairly negatively impacted by H1B, to be sure. But finding people to work 40-50 per week for years on end without developing a sense of entitlement and wanting 4 vacations a year is EXTREMELY HARD. Many people in the modern workforce just want to work 20 hours per week while they "go to school". The majority won't even finish that degree anyway, it's just an excuse to be lazy while they have an excuse to spend other people's money on useless pursuits.
Americans where I live work very hard for their money. And desperately want more hours.
This affects all races of Americans. When they go into Town they see taxpayer funded foreigners living it up.
Foolishness has to stop.
They’re dormant federal agents waiting for the opportunity to divide and cause doubt. They’re the type of shill one can back over with the 🚐 and it’s okay.
They’re dormant federal agents waiting for the opportunity to divide and cause doubt.
It is gotten to the point where I am starting to doubt the validity of the various stories of people who have 20+ years of experience, only to get laid off and replaced by Indians. They may be true, but I know such statements and stories can be generated quickly with an AI chatbot, and then spammed everywhere.
During the whole chaos with the H1-B visas, I took a peak at some of the Truth Social accounts spouting such stories and supporting those who spout such stories:
-a disappointingly low number of the accounts seem to be genuine.
All others are a combination of :
-new accounts created only to cause mayhem,
-old accounts that seem to be dormant before or don't have the level activity that implies regular use,
-accounts that only seem to re-truth other posts, with very little original content, and
It is gotten to the point where I am starting to doubt the validity of the various stories of people who have 20+ years of experience, only to get laid off and replaced by Indians
It definitely happens, a lot. They’ve taken over a lot of IT, and they’re working on accounting departments and other segments.
At this point, they often don’t even have to outsource.
A lot of other company types have opened those doors and seen their staff turn over. You just need to look around.
How widespread that is for us as a country? That, I can’t answer. Only that it definitely does happen, a lot, but it’s possible that it’s largely confined to specific regions and larger cities.
People saying we need more people in this country never state what the maximum number of people in this country should be. Is it 400 million? 500 million? 1 billion? 2 billion? Why stop there?
Where does it end? When we're India on steroids, when there are no more wide open spaces, when we're stacked atop each other in cages like rats in a Shanghai meat market?
Where exactly did President Trump say he would import 100 million people? I seriously doubt this is his intention, since he didn't even do anything remotely like this in his first term.
Trump's stance on H-1Bs since 2016 has always been to import the best talent.
Where exactly did President Trump say he would import 100 million people?
Bingo.
I got the feeling that many people who is harping about Trump betraying America First have gasllit themselves into believing that Trump will replace the Average American with Indians, or foreigners in large groups uncountable like the grains of sand on a beach.
NEVER had Trump said nor imply he would swamp America with foreigners.
It's sad that people are still falling for the media's obvious psyops. I still remember right after the 2016 election when supposed Trump supporters said Trump was betraying his voters by considering Romney as Secretary of State.
Some people need to just relax and use proper discernment.
We’re not full, we are at a point where the birth rate is very low and if we don’t change something we’re going to become Japan. Legal immigration of people who share values and also produce children with American values would be beneficial to us. Take a look at the population pyramid for the US and look at the EU countries as well. Look real hard at Japan. Their culture is dying. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2024/
Because a lot of us are sick of it. We can fix this country without bringing in a bunch of foreigners. There’s nothing wrong with having a high in group preference. I want my country to be my group. Only Israel is allowed to have that though.
There's a difference between a "bunch" of mostly average foreigners, and a set of highly talented and skilled foreigners (Wernher von Braun for example). Obviously we all prefer the latter, but the problem is that many are accusing Trump of preferring the former.
If you actually look at his goals for what he wants to accomplish and set in motion.
It’ll be a Herculean Undertaken that will likely even eclipse the darkest days WW2 in terms of industrial and manpower requirements.
I personally don’t really want the H1B Visas involved. Or any Visas workers for that matter. Not without reliable assurances they’ll fuck off back home when the Job is done. But I can also acknowledge reality.
Immigration has been terribly forced on the past century. The west could also stop destabilizing dozens of nations and fomenting coups. The instability causes a flood migration to the west.
Someone has already said we need a Manhattan project style program for AI, this includes a new cheaper energy source. All the bridges and roads that need to be rebuilt. Coast to coast high speed rail underground and many more massive projects going on at once. Going to a space based economy is the only thing preventing a possible debt collapse and hyperinflation.
Think bigger.
Such massive projects that you’d need either 10 year olds filling the gap or visas. Millions more empty positions that can be filled. A reversal of the past 10 years wage and quality of life theft.
Temporary migrants are probably fine, so long as we legitimately need them, the majority are temporary, and people start to understand they can’t keep handing control of their businesses, property, and laws over to them. There’s no inherent hatred of “furr’ners” behind it, but a love of our society and its founding principles and desire to not lose it.
Foreign cultures who don’t accept our ways are a threat if they’re allowed to root here. How many Hindu temples are currently being built all around this country? How many Masjid have been established? Who let these people in? Are they citizens?
There are probably better controlled methods to do this where the culture doesn’t need to be sacrificed for labor.
Deporting all illegal aliens at once is going to create a massive void in certain job areas that is going to take a while to fill with American citizens. The American people are going to have to make it clear to Trump that we want those jobs.
Cutting off ALL leeches on the welfare system is a must. There are plenty of people that can work who are stealing from the working men and women of America.
We're going to need a ton of "brilliant" minds imported in from around the world to fill the void of low skill jobs left behind from illegals? These illegals aren't doctors, lawyers or scientists.
The jobs the illegals/deported leave will be filled by Americans! What did you think "they took our jobs" was referring to? Everyone will be able to have a job now. And the tech talent will come from other countries. There will be enough jobs for everyone to have two if they want!
And the tech talent will come from other countries.
As someone who works in the tech industry, he can fuck right off with this idea. I don't want to go from working in IT to picking tomatoes because the no-skilled terrorists from Guatemala have been deported.
I've worked in IT for a long time, and have seen first hand how companies like to dump skilled and experienced American workers for foreigners who will take less money just to get their foot in the door here. I've seen friends train their barely-English-speaking replacements, because otherwise they couldn't get unemployment to help them until they manage to find their next job. I've watched those same friends work at Publix bagging groceries to feed their families because the jobs in IT dried up in the early 2000s (dried up = given to foreigners).
Even now, if you're white and male, you're far less likely to be given a job in IT than anyone else, no matter how much experience you have. My husband's prior boss--a man who was around 60--was shitcanned for no reason at all. He was brilliant, but he had been with the company for too long, so they wrote him up for nothing, put him on an improvement plan (while never saying what he needed to improve), then canned him less than a month later. Why? So they could replace him with a woman.
As a woman, I don't want a job because I have tits--I want a job because I'm good at it (which I am). By the same token, I don't want to lose my job or be overlooked for another because my skin is the wrong color and I'm American instead of a foreigner desperate to get to the country.
Bottom line: American workers should be prioritized, even if that means providing training for them. And IT jobs shouldn't automatically belong to foreigners. That's just bullshit.
Should be. But facts do not care about that. People that make millions and billions dont want that. That isn't how you exploit the workers and drain them of their sweat equity. How could people be this far into an "awakening" and not know this fundamental fact? Lack of situational awareness. No offense. Humans have massive blind spots. And those are known and exploited to great effect. For your money! And/or your ability to spread fear and division.
If we look back to his first term, President Trump is being consistent on immigration. Obviously his top priority has always been stopping illegal immigration. When it comes to legal immigration his position has always been we need to admit the right people for the right reasons.
My recollection is he preached about the need for extreme vetting before a person would be permitted to migrate to the United States. He imposed the travel bans on countries that support terrorism. He also spoke about the need to end chain migration. And, he attempted to set a high minimum salary for H1B visas to protect American workers, but that was blocked by the courts.
He's actually telling a straight up lie and being inconsistent with his first term specifically regarding H-1B visas. That's the major problem I have with this.
Everything I’ve read and remember about President Trump’s position on H1B visas is about making sure the program isn’t used to undercut American citizens. He has never talked about eliminating it.
So far I haven’t seen any credible sauce that he’s changed his position. All I hear are people complaining because they can’t influence him to change his position. And, because it’s effective, they are piggybacking on the MSM narrative that Musk has too much influence over POTUS to trigger people.
Agree with you completely. I doubt Trump would have been able to end the H1B program at all, given how much congress opposed him. He did try his best with executive orders to my knowledge, to increase visa denial rates, lessen the time they can spend in the US, and require degrees. Not perfect, but Trump was trying his best given what he had.
Your second link actually shows he stated back in March 2016, that he didn’t want to end the H1B program, he wanted to end the abuse of it.
I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."
Evidently in that debate he admitted he changed his position from the earlier clip in your first link.
Nice! Thank you as well for the extra sauce because that does make me feel a lot better about his current stance. It at least shows it wasn't a blatant lie and that he had already reconsidered his position back then. Which he then did hold true to with harsher restrictions on the H-1B program that I think Biden later reversed?
Agreed, I appreciate the debate as well. I think it's important we remain critical of our leaders and all information that passes through here. It's the only way we can hold each other accountable and get to the truth.
Oh that’s right or is it left ? I forget which way we’re supposed to handle this one ! Get rid of all of them , every last illegal ! after which go through the highways and byways , city streets and country roads , offering jobs to any American who wants one ! This offer has to come with accessibility not a bunch of HR red Tape ! Do this everyday on loud speakers rolling 24/7 on the idiot box billboards and social media ! Once every American has a job if they desire then and only then can we discuss this topic !
Do you have a spiel for legal immigrants as well? Because the plan is for legal immigrants to take the tech jobs. And for Americans to take the jobs of the illegal immigrants. Everybody legally in America gets to compete for a job. Promises made promises kept.
I was thinking about someone I know who got the best medicaid for low income. She refuses to get a job because she'd loose the insurance and low income housing. It makes me wonder if many Americans are purposely staying this way just to keep their medicaid type a,,b,c , the best one includes dental, glasses, rehab, organs transplant, wow.. it's even better than the regular insurance you get from your job.
What Trump said, dig deeper and really study your environment to see how many Americans are actually still willing to work, a big portion of those already spoilt and bought by the demonscrats.
A lot of people feel like they have no choice but to stay in that system.
It's hard to give up dental care (which actually kind of sucks under Medicaid, at least when I had it), glasses, and free medical care. If there are other family members and especially children involved, it's even harder.
It would logically be the intelligent move, from a self-preservation standpoint, to keep your affordable home and healthcare rather than drive yourself deeper into poverty by getting a job.
The system is screwed up and a bit like flypaper when you think about it.
Not saying there aren't those that take total advantage of it, though. Those definitely exist too. The ones that especially piss me off are the ones that get income through dealing drugs and have multiple rigged out cars, gigantic TVs, all the game consoles, you name it.
Exactly.. people did it out of self preservation.. so it's many factors that are needed to be addressed. I also remember a guy who gets fired every 5-6 months? so he could collect unemployment. Many people are good at playing the system. I can't bring myself to do any of these things unfortunately and straightforward honest taxpaying people, unfortunately, become the suckers sometimes
The landslide victory disputes that theory. Working people and those that desired work voted American first.
That's nonsense to say Americans don't want to work.
in fact it's a lie from the pits of hell.
Comparitively few cases. Remember who is rich. Check there for your ill gotten goods and gains. And I mean super rich. Although there are eddys here and there where someone has managed to pool a little run off, the flow of the money taken goes up.
Inspect why this isnt the default lense. Blame neighbors last, I think.
Whatever happened to optics? Trump could have answered in any way to address the concerns of all of us Americans who've been laid off by foreign workers. But he didn't.
We’re about to deport an insane amount of people, and there’s going to be inconvenience and sad stories thrown at the public… Increasing legal immigration shines a light on how illegal immigrants are line cutters and not the same as people who respect our laws. And even with increasing the numbers, it won’t be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount being deported.
Well heck... I know you guys are done with immigration after all that has happened, but I wouldn't mind getting a chance...
In 2020 I promised myself that I'd do whatever it took to go to the US, legally of course, if DJT won, then what happened happened and I gave up, there was even a fren who suggested I say fuck it and just took advantage of the open border situation, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, I'm not that big of an hypocrite.
They'd never have let me in anyway since I'm
a white dude with green eyes and would be very vocal about my DJT support, I'm sure there's at least some triage happening
But I'd be happy to do construction work, be a farm hand, whatever, DJT's talk about a bunch of new cities being built gave me some hope back to get that chance
Yeah that's what I mean, they'd probably not have let me in anyway
I wouldn't have done it though, I'm a play by the book guy, if I go it's gonna be 100% legal, I'd also not want to rob any Americans of their jobs, so just in case of a surplus of work
No problem, as long as every American who wants a job has one, they don't run our companies they just work there, they don't get to vote and if they display any leftist leaning they get booted.
We have plenty of people here that need jobs. Unemployment numbers lie. Way too many people already living here. They won't go back once they get work, just like illegals.
IF you are over 40...half of your life has been stolen from you..IF you received that $ back,,along with you back tax pay, your mortgauge and your credit crds payed...how long would you keep working?? Who is gonna replace you?
Frens, it’s a lot simpler than that. Elon is correct when he says we need to have more kids. Our birth rates are very low, we are not at replacement numbers. Here is a link to a population pyramid that you can view by country. Look at the US, look at any European country, Italy, Germany, Spain, UK, Ireland. Look real hard at Ukraine, yeah democrats and RINOs are responsible for that. Look at Japan. That’s where we’re headed if we don’t change. We need people who are going to be willing to have children, who value family and hard work and who would love the chance to become an American citizen. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2024/
So we're back to the "replace whites" plan? Instead of encouraging Americans to reproduce--by making sure they have good jobs and the females aren't taught to be a bunch of man-hating bitches--they've chosen to finish off whitey by giving all the good jobs to foreigners and using mass immigration. Yeah, this shit is not what I voted for.
Where did I say that they're saying white people shouldn't reproduce? What I said was that they aren't encouraging it with these policies and are clearly (to anyone with a brain) simply replacing whites--and, more importantly, Americans--with foreigners.
Handing all the good paying jobs over to foreigners does not encourage people to have families, because they won't be able to afford it. But that's okay, apparently, because Americans are stupid and lazy and shouldn't be allowed to have good jobs, anyway. They can go pick crops or get on welfare, just like the illegals we're deporting did.
Insurance paying for IVF isn’t trying to get people to have more kids? MAHA talking about the ultra processed foods causing infertility isn’t addressing the issue?
Yes, it's addressing the issue, but--again--if the higher-paid jobs are going to be filled by foreigners because American "culture" is so bad (according to Vivek), they won't be able to afford to have children. Of course, they could always go on welfare and move along Johnson's plan to have everyone voting dem because there are no fathers in the house to support the children, but that would just further destroy this country.
I mentioned Vivek, not Elon. Not that it matters, because DJT defended both of the aforementioned and their shitty comments about Americans, then doubled down on their desire to fill the country with H1Bs to take jobs away from Americans. He just left off the last part...
My take on this, Trump already has some of the brightest minds from around the world that he'd like to bring in to better achieve his purpose and ours. I realize there could be h1b issues, but he has plans for most everything else, my bet is he's got a plan not yet discussed for that too. At least that's my hope.
I have worked in Canada and in the UK. Both needed me to provide evidence that I was a specialist and that I wasn’t taking a job away from their citizens. It’s so crazy how lax the USA is in our hiring practices & how we have just let people in willy-nilly
I live in a farming area. Many of our family farmers are unable to find "locals" who want to work on their farms. Many have turned to hiring farm hands from South Africa for 6-8 mos out of the year. This program has worked great for our farmers. I am concerned that we have a problem motivating our unemployed citizens to work in our area. Not sure how to change this.
He said something like that back in 2016 and the left libs dems immediately cut it off in news cycles to say he didn’t want people entering our country. They cut off the words “legally” enter.
I knew then they would not be for us or him, but be our enemy. I never realized how bad it would get and how complicit MSM would be!
To reduce the Indian population, all we need to do it give all of them a scooter, and require that they cross at least two train tracks on the way to work.
In the cities and burbs? I agree. I live in a burb and it is overcrowded, with multi-story apartment buildings popping up constantly to bring in more foreigners who don't work and just get welfare to sit on their ass. Meanwhile, they actually do work--for cash, so they don't have to pay taxes and don't jeopardize their handouts. I'm so fucking sick of seeing apartment buildings cover every square inch of land in this area. There used to be trees (and, to be fair, dilapidated and abandoned stores), but now it's just apartments as far as the eye can see. Of course, the infrastructure wasn't designed for so many people, so all it does is cause problems.
It ALL feels overcrowded to me. Even out in 'the country.' Who owns 1,000 acres any more? Washington owned 13,000! Some people need and want space and they should be able to have it. Too many people drives up competition and costs.
What? The claim that all of it is to "create division and chaos in MAGA" is illogical.
If they can be blackmailed into doing a 180 on this "question", then they can be blackmailed into actually affecting changes to reflect that 180. In which case, they will fuck us over and go against the entire MAGA movement.
I'm not going to blindly support anyone, especially not if it seems they lied to me about what they intended to do. And, honestly, I don't give a rat's ass if they were "blackmailed" or not--all I care about is that they deliver what was promised.
Note: MAGA stands for "Make America Great Again". If we wanted to "Make America India", we would've called it MAI.
Keep in mind all, he's a business owner. He sees the United States as a business that has to compete with the other businesses.
As a business owner, you do want the best talent for your business, even if that means poaching it from your competitors.
He's just attempting to hire the best and brightest from outside the company, to join the best and brightest already in the company. It's how good companies grow
A good business owner would think about hiring the optimal team of employees tha work the best together and are the most productive. Importing below-average IQ people of a foreign culture into the US will not at all help the US, it will only harm us.
They may know that. If so, it then points to one of two things: It is known it will harm us and that is why it is being done and waved in our faces. Or that they will only bring in a lot of people that have higher IQ's than American candidates. Is there a 3rd option that isn't obvious to me?
I feel like Trump is way too competitive to be importing a bunch of below-average IQ people. That doesn't fall in line with Trump's America first, at all!
Exactly, Trump has called out the H1B abuse for many years. It makes no sense to think he would suddenly reverse on this issue.
In one of Trump's books I read when I was younger I remember specifically how he would poach the best talent from his rivals to work for him. It makes sense he would do the same as President.
He’s saying we’re going to have a job works program so massive we’ll be needing legit h1b visas.
Yeah, I don't understand why many aren't giving Trump the benefit of the doubt in this case.
We’re going to have massive building projects all over the country. He’s got a lot to do in 4 years. I hope.
Precisely. A lot of people need to just be optimistic. Trump's work in his first term was miraculous, and now he's even more experienced with a better team.
And a mandate
theyre a newly awaken
theyre a shill
they dont understand the concept of optics
i can think of a few reasons.
A lot of people have Musk Derangement Syndrome.
Nothing is ever good enough for some people.
etc
"Nothing is ever good enough for some people."
This reminds me of a lesson I learned in political campaigning classes:
Do not waste too much time and effort courting the extremists, for their are small in number, have little funds nor resources that they can contribute to your cause, and nothing that you can do will reasonably satisfy them.
I have a feeling that the "some people" are hardcore anti-ALL-immigration extremists where they think American First means Americans ONLY, no immigration allowed.
However, if you listened to any of Trump's speeches and rallies, he is against ILLEGAL immigration. He is for legal immigration. That is nothing new. I am thinking that "some people" have gaslit themselves and others into thinking that what Trump really means by "American First" means "American ONLY".
One more thing: if Trump is against all immigration, then he wouldn't have selected Kash Patel, a son of legal Indian immigrants, to be a key member of his team as the head of FBI.
You think Americans standing up for American workers is extreme? I have never seen such hatred tor American people as expressed by The supporters of HB1.
The main problem with this entire H1B situation is that despite both groups on this forum (and Trump) preferring the US only takes in an elite and select group of highly talented, specialized, and skilled foreigners (e.g. Wernher von Braun), one side is falsely accusing the other of instead wanting to mass-import low skill workers from the third world. It's simply not true, and Trump never said he would do this.
Obviously H1B is broken, and ideally is completely revoked (which can only be done with Congress), the next best thing that can be done is to limit it as much as possible and make it as much of a bureaucratic nightmare for regular non-talented foreigners.
There is another program for the von Bruan levels. Hb1 is destructive to American workers and wages. Americans have been lied on and defamed for decades. Americans are tired of eating crumbs
Its a tough pill to swallow but Americans are really not the super competent and willing workers that many on the .WINs have recently started to believe. I'm sure there are many Americans unfairly negatively impacted by H1B, to be sure. But finding people to work 40-50 per week for years on end without developing a sense of entitlement and wanting 4 vacations a year is EXTREMELY HARD. Many people in the modern workforce just want to work 20 hours per week while they "go to school". The majority won't even finish that degree anyway, it's just an excuse to be lazy while they have an excuse to spend other people's money on useless pursuits.
Americans where I live work very hard for their money. And desperately want more hours. This affects all races of Americans. When they go into Town they see taxpayer funded foreigners living it up. Foolishness has to stop.
This.
They’re dormant federal agents waiting for the opportunity to divide and cause doubt. They’re the type of shill one can back over with the 🚐 and it’s okay.
It is gotten to the point where I am starting to doubt the validity of the various stories of people who have 20+ years of experience, only to get laid off and replaced by Indians. They may be true, but I know such statements and stories can be generated quickly with an AI chatbot, and then spammed everywhere.
During the whole chaos with the H1-B visas, I took a peak at some of the Truth Social accounts spouting such stories and supporting those who spout such stories:
-a disappointingly low number of the accounts seem to be genuine.
All others are a combination of :
-new accounts created only to cause mayhem,
-old accounts that seem to be dormant before or don't have the level activity that implies regular use,
-accounts that only seem to re-truth other posts, with very little original content, and
-Democrat Shill accounts and trolls.
Food for thought.
Disbelieve it all you want. I watched it happen at my company. Literally the entire IT department was fired and they hired India to replace them.
It definitely happens, a lot. They’ve taken over a lot of IT, and they’re working on accounting departments and other segments.
At this point, they often don’t even have to outsource.
I hate to be that guy, but do you have hard evidence?
Look around at a lot of corporations in major cities who publicly list some of their staff.
The CEOs of a large number of IT companies are Indian now, and it goes down the chain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fortune_500_computer_software_and_information_companies
Just scan those CEOs.
A lot of other company types have opened those doors and seen their staff turn over. You just need to look around.
How widespread that is for us as a country? That, I can’t answer. Only that it definitely does happen, a lot, but it’s possible that it’s largely confined to specific regions and larger cities.
Because we're full?
People saying we need more people in this country never state what the maximum number of people in this country should be. Is it 400 million? 500 million? 1 billion? 2 billion? Why stop there?
Where does it end? When we're India on steroids, when there are no more wide open spaces, when we're stacked atop each other in cages like rats in a Shanghai meat market?
Where. Does. It. End.
Where exactly did President Trump say he would import 100 million people? I seriously doubt this is his intention, since he didn't even do anything remotely like this in his first term.
Trump's stance on H-1Bs since 2016 has always been to import the best talent.
Bingo.
I got the feeling that many people who is harping about Trump betraying America First have gasllit themselves into believing that Trump will replace the Average American with Indians, or foreigners in large groups uncountable like the grains of sand on a beach.
NEVER had Trump said nor imply he would swamp America with foreigners.
It's sad that people are still falling for the media's obvious psyops. I still remember right after the 2016 election when supposed Trump supporters said Trump was betraying his voters by considering Romney as Secretary of State.
Some people need to just relax and use proper discernment.
We’re not full, we are at a point where the birth rate is very low and if we don’t change something we’re going to become Japan. Legal immigration of people who share values and also produce children with American values would be beneficial to us. Take a look at the population pyramid for the US and look at the EU countries as well. Look real hard at Japan. Their culture is dying. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2024/
Because a lot of us are sick of it. We can fix this country without bringing in a bunch of foreigners. There’s nothing wrong with having a high in group preference. I want my country to be my group. Only Israel is allowed to have that though.
There's a difference between a "bunch" of mostly average foreigners, and a set of highly talented and skilled foreigners (Wernher von Braun for example). Obviously we all prefer the latter, but the problem is that many are accusing Trump of preferring the former.
Because they still fall for the Leftist narrative that says MAGA hates immigrants
MAGA says Take care of Americans first. Other countries should be doing the same.
If you actually look at his goals for what he wants to accomplish and set in motion.
It’ll be a Herculean Undertaken that will likely even eclipse the darkest days WW2 in terms of industrial and manpower requirements.
I personally don’t really want the H1B Visas involved. Or any Visas workers for that matter. Not without reliable assurances they’ll fuck off back home when the Job is done. But I can also acknowledge reality.
Immigration has been terribly forced on the past century. The west could also stop destabilizing dozens of nations and fomenting coups. The instability causes a flood migration to the west.
Someone has already said we need a Manhattan project style program for AI, this includes a new cheaper energy source. All the bridges and roads that need to be rebuilt. Coast to coast high speed rail underground and many more massive projects going on at once. Going to a space based economy is the only thing preventing a possible debt collapse and hyperinflation.
We’re gonna need a shit ton of workers.
hell yes. infrastucture! they need to pass a massive spending bill on this. But why not just put already here americans on the jobs?
Think bigger. Such massive projects that you’d need either 10 year olds filling the gap or visas. Millions more empty positions that can be filled. A reversal of the past 10 years wage and quality of life theft.
Think BIGLY
you spelled naively wrong
I agree. Anything is possible.
Temporary migrants are probably fine, so long as we legitimately need them, the majority are temporary, and people start to understand they can’t keep handing control of their businesses, property, and laws over to them. There’s no inherent hatred of “furr’ners” behind it, but a love of our society and its founding principles and desire to not lose it.
Foreign cultures who don’t accept our ways are a threat if they’re allowed to root here. How many Hindu temples are currently being built all around this country? How many Masjid have been established? Who let these people in? Are they citizens?
There are probably better controlled methods to do this where the culture doesn’t need to be sacrificed for labor.
The Germans did this with Turkey decades ago. Spoiler, the Turkish never left.
This. Don’t want them. Don’t need them.
the markets been lying to the investor class, has it? Need is irrelevant. Nobody needs billions of dollars. Need's not the game being played.
Deporting all illegal aliens at once is going to create a massive void in certain job areas that is going to take a while to fill with American citizens. The American people are going to have to make it clear to Trump that we want those jobs.
Correct...
there will be plenty of out of work FORMER government employees that can fill the void
Cutting off ALL leeches on the welfare system is a must. There are plenty of people that can work who are stealing from the working men and women of America.
Corporate and State welfare too?
Absolutely!
We're going to need a ton of "brilliant" minds imported in from around the world to fill the void of low skill jobs left behind from illegals? These illegals aren't doctors, lawyers or scientists.
Tf, Trump has to be reminded America first?
The jobs the illegals/deported leave will be filled by Americans! What did you think "they took our jobs" was referring to? Everyone will be able to have a job now. And the tech talent will come from other countries. There will be enough jobs for everyone to have two if they want!
As someone who works in the tech industry, he can fuck right off with this idea. I don't want to go from working in IT to picking tomatoes because the no-skilled terrorists from Guatemala have been deported.
I've worked in IT for a long time, and have seen first hand how companies like to dump skilled and experienced American workers for foreigners who will take less money just to get their foot in the door here. I've seen friends train their barely-English-speaking replacements, because otherwise they couldn't get unemployment to help them until they manage to find their next job. I've watched those same friends work at Publix bagging groceries to feed their families because the jobs in IT dried up in the early 2000s (dried up = given to foreigners).
Even now, if you're white and male, you're far less likely to be given a job in IT than anyone else, no matter how much experience you have. My husband's prior boss--a man who was around 60--was shitcanned for no reason at all. He was brilliant, but he had been with the company for too long, so they wrote him up for nothing, put him on an improvement plan (while never saying what he needed to improve), then canned him less than a month later. Why? So they could replace him with a woman.
As a woman, I don't want a job because I have tits--I want a job because I'm good at it (which I am). By the same token, I don't want to lose my job or be overlooked for another because my skin is the wrong color and I'm American instead of a foreigner desperate to get to the country.
Bottom line: American workers should be prioritized, even if that means providing training for them. And IT jobs shouldn't automatically belong to foreigners. That's just bullshit.
Should be. But facts do not care about that. People that make millions and billions dont want that. That isn't how you exploit the workers and drain them of their sweat equity. How could people be this far into an "awakening" and not know this fundamental fact? Lack of situational awareness. No offense. Humans have massive blind spots. And those are known and exploited to great effect. For your money! And/or your ability to spread fear and division.
If we look back to his first term, President Trump is being consistent on immigration. Obviously his top priority has always been stopping illegal immigration. When it comes to legal immigration his position has always been we need to admit the right people for the right reasons.
My recollection is he preached about the need for extreme vetting before a person would be permitted to migrate to the United States. He imposed the travel bans on countries that support terrorism. He also spoke about the need to end chain migration. And, he attempted to set a high minimum salary for H1B visas to protect American workers, but that was blocked by the courts.
Edit for Sauce:
Chain Migration 2018
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/01/04/immigration-expert-trump-wants-to-end-chain-migration-and-visa-lottery-program/
Supports Legal Migration 2019
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/05/trump-state-of-the-union-legal-immigration-1148629
Tighter H1B rules 2020 and 2018
https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2020/10/06/white-house-posts-h-1b-visa-reforms-to-help-american-graduates-get-good-jobs/
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/09/04/business-elites-complain-trump-making-it-harder-to-import-foreign-workers/
Extreme vetting of migrants 2016
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37086578
He's actually telling a straight up lie and being inconsistent with his first term specifically regarding H-1B visas. That's the major problem I have with this.
Everything I’ve read and remember about President Trump’s position on H1B visas is about making sure the program isn’t used to undercut American citizens. He has never talked about eliminating it.
So far I haven’t seen any credible sauce that he’s changed his position. All I hear are people complaining because they can’t influence him to change his position. And, because it’s effective, they are piggybacking on the MSM narrative that Musk has too much influence over POTUS to trigger people.
Agree with you completely. I doubt Trump would have been able to end the H1B program at all, given how much congress opposed him. He did try his best with executive orders to my knowledge, to increase visa denial rates, lessen the time they can spend in the US, and require degrees. Not perfect, but Trump was trying his best given what he had.
Well you're demonstrably wrong on this, here is the sauce:
In both of these he talks very negatively about the program and how it is bad for the American workers.
Whereas now he says, "I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,”
Which is an outright flip flop and a lie compared to his 2016 comments.
Sauce: https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/
Your second link actually shows he stated back in March 2016, that he didn’t want to end the H1B program, he wanted to end the abuse of it.
Evidently in that debate he admitted he changed his position from the earlier clip in your first link.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-h1b-visas-gop-debate-immigration-2016-3
So, it is correct to say he has held his current position on H1B’s well before he was nominated and then elected in 2016.
Again, thanks for the sauce, it inspired me to dig a little deeper.
Nice! Thank you as well for the extra sauce because that does make me feel a lot better about his current stance. It at least shows it wasn't a blatant lie and that he had already reconsidered his position back then. Which he then did hold true to with harsher restrictions on the H-1B program that I think Biden later reversed?
I think the courts blocked some of it and Biden reversed it completely after he took office.
Thanks for the debate, it’s what I like about this community, we actually talk to each other.
Agreed, I appreciate the debate as well. I think it's important we remain critical of our leaders and all information that passes through here. It's the only way we can hold each other accountable and get to the truth.
No new immigration of any kind until all of the illegals are gone.
This is it right here !!! Why isn’t this said more ?
because it will be treated as dissent.
Oh that’s right or is it left ? I forget which way we’re supposed to handle this one ! Get rid of all of them , every last illegal ! after which go through the highways and byways , city streets and country roads , offering jobs to any American who wants one ! This offer has to come with accessibility not a bunch of HR red Tape ! Do this everyday on loud speakers rolling 24/7 on the idiot box billboards and social media ! Once every American has a job if they desire then and only then can we discuss this topic !
Do you have a spiel for legal immigrants as well? Because the plan is for legal immigrants to take the tech jobs. And for Americans to take the jobs of the illegal immigrants. Everybody legally in America gets to compete for a job. Promises made promises kept.
💯
Don't have H1B ----- where they can cut in line.
And it isnt a secret. But someone is depending on you not thinking that far or asking pertinent questions, it would seem.
I was thinking about someone I know who got the best medicaid for low income. She refuses to get a job because she'd loose the insurance and low income housing. It makes me wonder if many Americans are purposely staying this way just to keep their medicaid type a,,b,c , the best one includes dental, glasses, rehab, organs transplant, wow.. it's even better than the regular insurance you get from your job.
What Trump said, dig deeper and really study your environment to see how many Americans are actually still willing to work, a big portion of those already spoilt and bought by the demonscrats.
A lot of people feel like they have no choice but to stay in that system.
It's hard to give up dental care (which actually kind of sucks under Medicaid, at least when I had it), glasses, and free medical care. If there are other family members and especially children involved, it's even harder.
It would logically be the intelligent move, from a self-preservation standpoint, to keep your affordable home and healthcare rather than drive yourself deeper into poverty by getting a job.
The system is screwed up and a bit like flypaper when you think about it.
Not saying there aren't those that take total advantage of it, though. Those definitely exist too. The ones that especially piss me off are the ones that get income through dealing drugs and have multiple rigged out cars, gigantic TVs, all the game consoles, you name it.
Exactly.. people did it out of self preservation.. so it's many factors that are needed to be addressed. I also remember a guy who gets fired every 5-6 months? so he could collect unemployment. Many people are good at playing the system. I can't bring myself to do any of these things unfortunately and straightforward honest taxpaying people, unfortunately, become the suckers sometimes
The landslide victory disputes that theory. Working people and those that desired work voted American first. That's nonsense to say Americans don't want to work. in fact it's a lie from the pits of hell.
Even old people who worked all their lives don't get vision and dental with medicare.
Comparitively few cases. Remember who is rich. Check there for your ill gotten goods and gains. And I mean super rich. Although there are eddys here and there where someone has managed to pool a little run off, the flow of the money taken goes up.
Inspect why this isnt the default lense. Blame neighbors last, I think.
No
You took my comment.
Whatever happened to optics? Trump could have answered in any way to address the concerns of all of us Americans who've been laid off by foreign workers. But he didn't.
As long as these workers fuck off back home. Too many of them overstay visas and cry to the government
We’re about to deport an insane amount of people, and there’s going to be inconvenience and sad stories thrown at the public… Increasing legal immigration shines a light on how illegal immigrants are line cutters and not the same as people who respect our laws. And even with increasing the numbers, it won’t be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount being deported.
Well heck... I know you guys are done with immigration after all that has happened, but I wouldn't mind getting a chance...
In 2020 I promised myself that I'd do whatever it took to go to the US, legally of course, if DJT won, then what happened happened and I gave up, there was even a fren who suggested I say fuck it and just took advantage of the open border situation, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, I'm not that big of an hypocrite.
They'd never have let me in anyway since I'm
a white dude with green eyes and would be very vocal about my DJT support, I'm sure there's at least some triage happening
But I'd be happy to do construction work, be a farm hand, whatever, DJT's talk about a bunch of new cities being built gave me some hope back to get that chance
It's still a long shot for me though
FREEDOM CITIES
You're white? You aren't who they want to import, apparently.
Yeah that's what I mean, they'd probably not have let me in anyway
I wouldn't have done it though, I'm a play by the book guy, if I go it's gonna be 100% legal, I'd also not want to rob any Americans of their jobs, so just in case of a surplus of work
No problem, as long as every American who wants a job has one, they don't run our companies they just work there, they don't get to vote and if they display any leftist leaning they get booted.
We have plenty of people here that need jobs. Unemployment numbers lie. Way too many people already living here. They won't go back once they get work, just like illegals.
And actual Americans will be left with no jobs, while they stay here and take everything for themselves.
IF you are over 40...half of your life has been stolen from you..IF you received that $ back,,along with you back tax pay, your mortgauge and your credit crds payed...how long would you keep working?? Who is gonna replace you?
Well, guess that put us in our place. Americans just dont have the "best minds" now.
Maybe we're supposed to feel better that it's Trump trying to destroy Americans with immigration instead of the dems. Newsflash... it does not.
Freedom cities are not going to build themselves
Frens, it’s a lot simpler than that. Elon is correct when he says we need to have more kids. Our birth rates are very low, we are not at replacement numbers. Here is a link to a population pyramid that you can view by country. Look at the US, look at any European country, Italy, Germany, Spain, UK, Ireland. Look real hard at Ukraine, yeah democrats and RINOs are responsible for that. Look at Japan. That’s where we’re headed if we don’t change. We need people who are going to be willing to have children, who value family and hard work and who would love the chance to become an American citizen. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2024/
So we're back to the "replace whites" plan? Instead of encouraging Americans to reproduce--by making sure they have good jobs and the females aren't taught to be a bunch of man-hating bitches--they've chosen to finish off whitey by giving all the good jobs to foreigners and using mass immigration. Yeah, this shit is not what I voted for.
No one is saying that “white” people should stop reproducing, what do you not understand about low fertility rates?
Where did I say that they're saying white people shouldn't reproduce? What I said was that they aren't encouraging it with these policies and are clearly (to anyone with a brain) simply replacing whites--and, more importantly, Americans--with foreigners.
Handing all the good paying jobs over to foreigners does not encourage people to have families, because they won't be able to afford it. But that's okay, apparently, because Americans are stupid and lazy and shouldn't be allowed to have good jobs, anyway. They can go pick crops or get on welfare, just like the illegals we're deporting did.
Insurance paying for IVF isn’t trying to get people to have more kids? MAHA talking about the ultra processed foods causing infertility isn’t addressing the issue?
Yes, it's addressing the issue, but--again--if the higher-paid jobs are going to be filled by foreigners because American "culture" is so bad (according to Vivek), they won't be able to afford to have children. Of course, they could always go on welfare and move along Johnson's plan to have everyone voting dem because there are no fathers in the house to support the children, but that would just further destroy this country.
Elon isn’t in charge, DJT is.
I mentioned Vivek, not Elon. Not that it matters, because DJT defended both of the aforementioned and their shitty comments about Americans, then doubled down on their desire to fill the country with H1Bs to take jobs away from Americans. He just left off the last part...
I'm going to sit back and watch all the reeeeeeeee replies from smooth brains.
My take on this, Trump already has some of the brightest minds from around the world that he'd like to bring in to better achieve his purpose and ours. I realize there could be h1b issues, but he has plans for most everything else, my bet is he's got a plan not yet discussed for that too. At least that's my hope.
I have worked in Canada and in the UK. Both needed me to provide evidence that I was a specialist and that I wasn’t taking a job away from their citizens. It’s so crazy how lax the USA is in our hiring practices & how we have just let people in willy-nilly
I thought we were full
What is this new hell
I live in a farming area. Many of our family farmers are unable to find "locals" who want to work on their farms. Many have turned to hiring farm hands from South Africa for 6-8 mos out of the year. This program has worked great for our farmers. I am concerned that we have a problem motivating our unemployed citizens to work in our area. Not sure how to change this.
He said something like that back in 2016 and the left libs dems immediately cut it off in news cycles to say he didn’t want people entering our country. They cut off the words “legally” enter. I knew then they would not be for us or him, but be our enemy. I never realized how bad it would get and how complicit MSM would be!
As long as these workers deport home after a few years. Everyone knows they will cry and put up a stink about it. Then overstay their visas.
America is full, get the fuck out
To reduce the Indian population, all we need to do it give all of them a scooter, and require that they cross at least two train tracks on the way to work.
"We need a lot of people coming into our country"
To put it simply, no, we don't.
My main concern is human traffickers. I doubt nerds from India are going to pose much of a problem.
No, they'll just steal all the IT jobs from American workers, that's all.
The country feels overcrowded now.
In the cities and burbs? I agree. I live in a burb and it is overcrowded, with multi-story apartment buildings popping up constantly to bring in more foreigners who don't work and just get welfare to sit on their ass. Meanwhile, they actually do work--for cash, so they don't have to pay taxes and don't jeopardize their handouts. I'm so fucking sick of seeing apartment buildings cover every square inch of land in this area. There used to be trees (and, to be fair, dilapidated and abandoned stores), but now it's just apartments as far as the eye can see. Of course, the infrastructure wasn't designed for so many people, so all it does is cause problems.
It ALL feels overcrowded to me. Even out in 'the country.' Who owns 1,000 acres any more? Washington owned 13,000! Some people need and want space and they should be able to have it. Too many people drives up competition and costs.
This was a snippet, not a policy statement.
Didnt take him long to backtrack on that one.
The simple answer is Trump & Elon have been blackmailed into doing a 180 on the H1-B question.
It was forced on them in order to create division and chaos in MAGA.
And it's working.
That's all this is.
What? The claim that all of it is to "create division and chaos in MAGA" is illogical.
If they can be blackmailed into doing a 180 on this "question", then they can be blackmailed into actually affecting changes to reflect that 180. In which case, they will fuck us over and go against the entire MAGA movement.
I'm not going to blindly support anyone, especially not if it seems they lied to me about what they intended to do. And, honestly, I don't give a rat's ass if they were "blackmailed" or not--all I care about is that they deliver what was promised.
Note: MAGA stands for "Make America Great Again". If we wanted to "Make America India", we would've called it MAI.
Keep in mind all, he's a business owner. He sees the United States as a business that has to compete with the other businesses.
As a business owner, you do want the best talent for your business, even if that means poaching it from your competitors.
He's just attempting to hire the best and brightest from outside the company, to join the best and brightest already in the company. It's how good companies grow
A good business owner would think about hiring the optimal team of employees tha work the best together and are the most productive. Importing below-average IQ people of a foreign culture into the US will not at all help the US, it will only harm us.
They may know that. If so, it then points to one of two things: It is known it will harm us and that is why it is being done and waved in our faces. Or that they will only bring in a lot of people that have higher IQ's than American candidates. Is there a 3rd option that isn't obvious to me?
I feel like Trump is way too competitive to be importing a bunch of below-average IQ people. That doesn't fall in line with Trump's America first, at all!
Exactly, Trump has called out the H1B abuse for many years. It makes no sense to think he would suddenly reverse on this issue.
In one of Trump's books I read when I was younger I remember specifically how he would poach the best talent from his rivals to work for him. It makes sense he would do the same as President.
Listen to Patrick-Bet-David podcast ' H1-B visa debate'. How this is MAGA 1.0 (Bannon ) vs MAGA 2.0 (Musk)
business/team, anything but a country of light thats being held back from a golden age.
And billionaires will save us. Thats why its so glorious!
We are a melting pot. We have always invited people to join our country.
As long as they do it legally, and assimilate to the American way of life, then what's the problem with hiring them?
Exactly!
You should get right on that.